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The Patrick Hamilton Appreciation Society discussion

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message 251: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Thanks Mark. Disappointing to discover he's not the nicest fellow in the world. I know what you mean about his slickness, though you didn't use that exact word, and perhaps that grit is missing. It is all very measured. Yet, for Link and Chris S and Danny G to all work with him, suggests he must have some redeeming features, both musically and as a person.

Thanks for posting the original version of Someday, Someway. Makes me realise that RG's version is pretty much a carbon copy, just with added percussive beefiness.

I remember The Loveless and am genuinely not sure if I've seen it. That trailers makes me think not, and I must say it looks terrific, so will either watch, or rewatch as soon as possible, given your high praise.

Thanks for all the info.


message 252: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments You've got me searching for that opening film online now... I’m determined to see which 1960s Girls Groups footage was included!


message 253: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I should find it too as it annoys when I can't identify something, especially as it seemed quite mainstream.


message 254: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments If you find it, post the link and I’ll do my best to identify whichever bits I can.


message 255: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I've found it Mark. Thanks for the prompt. It's The Paper Dolls - Something Here In My Heart




Do you know it? It's blimmin wonderful.


message 256: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Wow! Nope, never would’ve been able to I.D. that one... it’s brand new to me. It looks like it’s probably one of those old Scopitone clips, which I generally love.


message 257: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
A classic clip eh? And a really great song. Do I fall in love with songs too easily?


By the by, the entire pre-concert film was....

1. Loudmouth by The Ramones (1975 video)
2. Something There In My Heart by Paper Dolls
3. How Soon Is Now? by t.a.T.u
4. Sound Of The Crowd by The Human League
5. I'm Black I'm Proud by James Bawldwin (Playboy After Dark 1969)
6. Someday Someway by Robert Gordon
7. old film clip ("We're rich, we're family")
8. Don't Make Me Over by Dionne Warwick
9. David Hoyle on "Melancholic Youths"
10. God Save The Queen by The Sex Pistols
11. clip from James Bawldwin's N
12. Sally's Song by Fiona Apple (The Nightmare Before Christmas sound track)
13. clip from 1950s(?) monster film
14. Germaine Greer (Australian author) is ranting "there's a lot of rubbish"
15. French film L'Insoumis clip (source for The Queen is Dead cover image)
16. It's The Same Old Song by The Four Tops
17. Jet Boy by The New York Dolls
18. Lipsynka


message 258: by Nigeyb (last edited Mar 05, 2018 08:24AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
And, finally (I promise), there's a new RPM/Cherry Red comp of The Paper Dolls...







message 259: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Now I need to know what #13 was! I’d like to believe it was this, but probably not...




message 260: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Sadly not Mark - though this is wonderful.


I daresay you would have recognised it.

Maybe Lon Chaney or Bela Lugosi? Not really a strong area for me.

If it had been a 70s Hammer film I would have been on firmer ground.


message 261: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Speaking of, as we were...

There’s a new forthcoming Spedding disc, which compiles his live BBC recordings, including, it seems, a focus on his work with The Vibrators. Details are slim at the moment, but this seems to be the spot to check back with:




message 262: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Thanks Mark - that sounds pretty darn intriguing


message 263: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I might be alone in this, but I’m looking forward to this upcoming release...




message 264: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I used to love Bow Wow Wow. I'm pretty sure I've got everything on there already - but it's a nice looking package


message 265: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I’ll hold fire until the reviews start coming in -- if there’s a general consensus that the remastering is good, then I’m very much in.


message 266: by Nigeyb (last edited Mar 28, 2018 09:46AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I had the original 'Cassette Pet' which is on Disc 3 - it would have made more sense to put that on disc 1 but I suppose the stuff is pretty obscure relative to the big hitters.

'See Jungle! See Jungle! Go Join Your Gang Yeah! City All Over, Go Ape Crazy' was the high-water mark in my opinion




message 267: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I still have the copy of Cassette Pet that I bought when it was first released... I really dig how the boxed set’s packaging mirrors it in design. Quite clever, really.


message 268: by Nigeyb (last edited Mar 29, 2018 04:20AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Yes indeed - the packaging looks great. From what I can make out it's not actually going to have a flip top, which would probably have made it a lot more expensive.

Your post inspired me to dig out "See Jungle" and it really is a wonderful record. Still sounds so fresh. Dave Barbarossa's drumming is the key, but Mathew Ashman's guitar is a thing of beauty, and Leigh Gorman was a mean bassist too.

I wonder if Adam Ant had sung these songs how they would have fared? That said, I do love Annabella's vocals.


message 269: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I liked them enough growing up, but looking back, as an adult, I’m always astonished by the brilliance of Matthew Ashman and Marco Pironni’s guitar work. Both played incredibly nuanced lines, while making it sound deceptively simple. As you say, though, everyone played their part with a serious combo of craft and gut, to the point where, with hindsight, I think all of them would’ve been taken far more seriously as musicians were it not for the trappings of their images.


message 270: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments While I’m here, here’s a question...

I’ve just finished reading Cowboy Song, the [only] authorised biography of Philip Lynott. I was never what you’d call of fan of Thin Lizzy, but I always suspected that Lynott’s story was a fascinating one. To a point, it certainly was. Any road, one name that kept popping up throughout the book was Graham Parker. I’ve always been aware of him, but have never bothered checking out his catalogue. So...any pointers or tips? Worth a look in?

Also... we finally watched the 2015 documentary Lambert & Stamp on Saturday, and really enjoyed it. Great story, superb presentation. Apart from brilliant old Who and mod footage, the film offered some interesting insights into 1960s London. So there’s my tip of the day -- if you ain’t seen it, give it a whirl.


message 271: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
You said it Mark.


I met Matthew Ashman a few times, as I briefly went to college with his long term girlfriend. Another sad victim of heroin addiction.

Both him and Marco were brilliant players. As you astutely remark, their images count against them in terms of getting serious critical plaudits.


message 272: by Nigeyb (last edited Mar 29, 2018 04:51AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Mark wrote: "I’ve just finished reading Cowboy Song, the [only] authorised biography of Philip Lynott. I was never what you’d call of fan of Thin Lizzy, but I always suspected that Lynott’s story was a fascinating one. To a point, it certainly was. Any road, one name that kept popping up throughout the book was Graham Parker. I’ve always been aware of him, but have never bothered checking out his catalogue. So...any pointers or tips? Worth a look in?"

I had a rummage around a few years back, having not really paid him much heed at the time (though always liked the single version of 'Don't Ask Me Questions').

He doesn't do much for me. Superior pub rock. Good soulful voice. A bit Costello-ish too. But it's all a bit safe and predictable to my ears

Mark wrote: "Also... we finally watched the 2015 documentary Lambert & Stamp on Saturday, and really enjoyed it. Great story, superb presentation. Apart from brilliant old Who and mod footage, the film offered some interesting insights into 1960s London. So there’s my tip of the day -- if you ain’t seen it, give it a whirl. "

I haven't and I will.

Coincidentally, and as not much of a fan of The Who, I blasted out a few choice singles the other night (Baba O'Reilly, Won't Get Fooled Again, I Can See For Miles, The Kids Are Alright) and was blown away. Sometimes you just need to be in the right mood.


message 273: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Nigeyb wrote: "I met Matthew Ashman a few times, as I briefly went to college with his long term girlfriend. Another sad victim of heroin addiction...."

Yeah, I’ve heard some pretty shocking stories about his various doings, from a friend who knew him. Seems a clear case of somebody being their own worst enemy and wasting a hell of a lot of talent, which is as much a shame as it is a stupid and tired cliche.

Thanks for the skinny on Graham Parker. Right or wrong, I always associated him with Nick Lowe, another one who I never had much time for, mainly because I always found him to be far too clever� preferring, instead, the Dave Edmunds half of the equation, by miles. I guess I’ll proceed, with caution, to youtube and take a brief tour of Parker’s career before taking the time [or not] to search out any downloads.

As for the Who... I’ll cop to having been a massive fan. Before the whole punk rock thing happened, it was all Who and Stones round mine. Of course, both bands had a best-before date, and even as a youngster I was clued-up enough to recognise the fact.

In a really strange twist... I’d been begging my parents to let me go to gigs from quite a young age, and was always told that it would have to wait until I was older. Looking back, that seems reasonable enough. Finally, permission was granted, and my first-ever gig was The Who, on 3 December 1979 at the Riverfront Coliseum in my hometown of Cincinnati... yup, the very gig where 11 people -- including a fellow student from my high school -- were crushed to death in a surge as the doors opened. Needless to say, there was a very looooong gap between that and my second gig.


message 274: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Nick Lowe is a bit more to my taste. Especially Jesus Of Cool (I have a feeling the album is called something else in the USA - for some strange reason the US record label felt Jesus Of Cool might not work in middle America)

At the very least you must dig I Love The Sound of Breaking Glass?



The track was on the Bowi EP. Nick convinced that Bowie's Low album was a homage to him. Minus the "e" to make it more subtle. Well I'm convinced.

I'd never heard about that tragedy at The Who's 79 Cincinnati concert. I've just been reading about it. Unbelievable that the group were not told about it until after the gig.




message 275: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Yes, the title Jesus of Cool was deemed too heretic for the puritanical American audience, so the album was released here under the title Pure Pop For Now People. Same sleeve design, same track listing, as far as I understand. For the most part, I liked that album, as well as the Rockpile album, but it seemed like his records became more about his lyrical prowess than anything else, so I lost any interest in following his career afterwards.

I’m a bit surprised to hear that you weren’t aware of that Who gig. I remember it being a massive national news story for quite a few weeks after. I think that the band was kept unaware out of a fear -- probably very well founded -- that stopping the concert would anger the crowd and ensure further tragedy. Personally, I had no idea what had happened until my parents picked me up after the gig. It was a hard thing to fathom at the time, and is still hard to fully grasp.


message 276: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Just started reading....


Can't Stand Up For Falling Down: Rock'n'Roll War Stories by Allan Jones

About 10% through so far and I recommend it

Wonderful array of short amusing anecdotes which so far have featured... John Martin, KC and the Sunshine Band, Leonard Cohen, Van Morrison, Lemmy, Bryan Ferry, Ray Davies. An absolute delight.




message 277: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments That looks like it’s worth picking up. I’ve read quite a few of his Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before columns, so it’s good to see that they’ve been collected in a compendium.

There’s a fairly astonishing run of music books due for imminent publication, including autobiographies by Kenney Jones and Françoise Hardy, and the paperback edition of Dave Hill’s.


message 278: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I'm loving it. Alex Harvey/SAHB have made a couple of appearances already.

Allan Jones actually chose Joe Strummer's name for him - one of a few options Joe was considering


message 279: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I’ll have to add that one to my list of things to pick up when we’re over in June. The list is getting longer and longer by the day.


message 280: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I think you'd love it Mark


I've just read one of the greatest Lou Reed anecdotes I've ever come across.

Allan met so many people - sometimes its the incidental stories that say most, eg. Angie Bowie or Olivia Newton John - but he does have some truly jaw dropping encounters with many a legend.


message 281: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments It has now been budgeted in, and added to the London Shopping List on my phone. Really looking forward to this one.

Now if only somebody could compile and publish a compendium of writings from The Word.


message 282: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Great news. That The Word compendium is well overdue. I still listen to the sporadic podcasts


message 283: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments Of everything I’d ever read in the pages of The Word, it’s almost always the non-music articles that spring into my mind. That magazine over-reached and over-achieved. Without The Word, I’m not sure that I would have ever checked out the works of Patrick Hamilton.


message 284: by David (new)

David | 1061 comments Was that the feature on the Gorse trilogy, Mark? It piqued my interest too.


message 285: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments David wrote: "Was that the feature on the Gorse trilogy, Mark? It piqued my interest too."

No, it was a standardised sort of question and answer thing with a woman whose name I hadn’t heard before and, subsequently, can’t remember. I liked a lot of her answers, so when she was prompted to name her favourite London novel, and named Hamilton’s Twenty Thousand Streets, I wasted no time in buying and reading a copy.


message 286: by David (new)

David | 1061 comments I wonder if it was Kathy Burke? She chose a Hamilton novel, Hangover Square perhaps, when she appeared on Radio 4's A Good Read.

Word ran an extended review of the publication of the Gorse trilogy on its publication, probably around 2006. I think I'd already seen the BBC adaptation of Twenty Thousand Streets Under The Sky by then, which was my first conscious knowledge of our man, although there was a copy of Twopence Coloured among the few books in our house when I was a yearling, but I think I'd have been obsessed by Enid Blyton at that age.


message 287: by David (new)

David | 1061 comments


message 288: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
That show with Kathy is a very enjoyable listen


I must confess I have no recollection of these Hamilton references in The Word despite being a subscriber for much of its lifespan

I came to Hamilton through hearing about Hangover Square from my wife, though how she knew about it I don't know.


message 289: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments The Word was never an easy one to find round the newsagents of New York City, so I never had stacks. But it was one of those magazines that I picked up whenever I spied a copy. I’ll try and dig that copy up this evening, and let you know the details.


message 290: by Martin Veitch (new)

Martin Veitch | 27 comments Speaking of radio, PH got a mention on Robert Elms' BBC Radio London show the other day. It's a very good programme for people intersted in the arts and what's happening in the dirty old town - 10am-1pm Monday to Saturday and on podcast.

I got the itch to read PH from this excellent article in The Guardian:

It had always puzzled me how few books there are set in pubs and the ones that are I haven't liked (Last Orders, Poets Pub, The Green Man etc).

Btw, I finally succumbed after finding a cheap copy of the Sean French biography. It's very good and well worth buying even if you have read the Nigel Jones. But it really makes you think you should also read the Bruce Hamilton biog too... What a strange, sad family (and world).


message 291: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
Great stuff Martin, I completely agree about the Elms show, though have not listened for many a moon.

Out of interest, have you read the Bruce Hamilton biography? How easy is it to procure?


message 292: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I've just finished...


Can't Stand Up For Falling Down: Rock'n'Roll War Stories by Allan Jones

I've read a lot of music memoirs and this is right up there with the very best. I loved every page.

Click here to read my review

Essential

5/5





message 293: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I've just started...


The Rise, The Fall, and The Rise by Brix Smith Start

Mark E. Smith famously once said: "If it’s me and yer granny on bongos, it’s The Fall". Which is quite true. Numerous bandmates came and went. Indeed, so many, that Dave Simpson wrote an entire book - 'The Fallen: Searching for the Missing Members of The Fall' - based around his quest to locate and talk to each and every one of them. It's a brilliant read too.

I followed The Fall pretty much continuously, from their inception in the white heat of punk, through to the bitter end, when Mark E. Smith died on 24 January 2018.

Most fans of The Fall would probably agree that the mid-1980s period in which Brix Smith Start was a member was both a creative and commercial highpoint.

I have always marvelled how anyone could want to live with Mark E. Smith, let alone get married to him. In 1983, Mark E. Smith married Brix Smith Start, then a member of The Fall. They divorced in 1989.

Mark E. Smith subsequently married Saffron Prior, who ran The Fall’s fan club. When he died he had been married to Eleni Poulou since 2001 � she was also a member of the Fall between 2002 and 2016.

These women are all appear to be attractive and intelligent. Mark E. Smith on the other hand clearly had addiction issues and was notoriously contrary and volatile. On a good day, I daresay he was stimulating and agreeable company, but I am not sure how often he had good days. So, I was especially keen to read this eyewitness account from Brix Smith Start.

More when I finish




message 294: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I’ve been curious about this one, mainly because I’ve never been a fan of The Fall but have often enjoyed - maybe in a slightly perverse way? - reading books about bands that I dislike. My detachment tends to bring out the whole Spinal Tap element.


message 295: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I'm not so sure this one is for you then Mark.


The first section, all about growing up in LA and Chicago is fine but a bit ho-hum, however then - for Fall fans - it really picks up. How she met Mark, moving to Manchester, and then becoming part of the group.

If you aren't already fascinated by The Fall then I suspect you'd wonder why you were reading it.

On the other hand, if the phenomenon that was Mark E Smith attracts you, then this eye witness account will tick most of yer boxes.


message 296: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments The cover design looks a lot like the cover of Dylan Jones� recent Bowie book, A Life, which I definitely need to scoop up.


message 297: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I have that book on my pile but have yet to read it - v much looking forward to it.


Watch this space


message 298: by Mark (new)

Mark Rubenstein | 1509 comments I’ve held myself back from buying a copy, because the UK paperback edition is due to hit the shelves during my time there next month.

I did, however, take inspiration from you and purchased a copy of Good Evening, Mrs Craven, which I’m very much looking forward to reading.


message 299: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
I hope you like it as much as I did. I look forward to your reaction.


message 300: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 4509 comments Mod
David wrote: "The third Danny book is hilarious, heartbreaking, horrifying and life-affirming line-by-line. You will love it.

In the podcast he reveals that he makes his money by writing, but as a broadcaster (BBC 5Live on Saturdays, also on BBC podcast), live performer (dozens of sell-out shows at the back end of 2017) and impressionist (his Danny Kelly is uncannily accurate), he's almost without equal too.

He did mention on the Word podcast that he'll be filming one of his shows, presumably for broadcast and DVD release, in a small venue early in 2018. The second part of Cradle To The Grave seems to be in production too.

Good as gold. Hat's on the side of my head etc etc."


I'm finally underway with 'Going On The Turn' by Danny Baker

Absolutely superb, as it was always going to be.

The story of how Dan got the 45 rpm singles back, which he'd thrown into a skip in a moment of madness, is worth the price of admission alone

As is his somewhat awkward encounter with David Bowie, who rendered him mute and clueless. A very rare occurrence for our Dan.




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