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Weekly TLS > What Are We Reading? 5 July 2021

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message 1: by Lljones (new)

Lljones | 1033 comments Mod
Greetings, all!

I'm not sure how, but I survived the brutal heat last week. Plenty of neighborhood garden flowers bit the dust, but the hydrangeas are going strong!

Hydrangeas

Two weeks of birthdays to scan through -- /topic/show/... and here.

(I'm late for an appointment...I'll just post this now and try to get back to it later today. Have a great week, everyone!)


message 2: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2570 comments Thanks Lisa. Those hydrangeas look beautiful. I have a white one in my garden, a pink one, and one that has different coloured blooms - sometimes within the same flowerhead! I tried using aluminium sulphate to turn the pink one blue one year. It worked!


message 3: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments giveusaclue wrote: "Thanks Lisa. Those hydrangeas look beautiful. I have a white one in my garden, a pink one, and one that has different coloured blooms - sometimes within the same flowerhead! I tried using aluminium..."

I ought to take a picture of the shades-of pink-hollyhock in bloom by the backyard fence. Its seeds were purloined on a neighborhood walk a couple of years ago. And just last week I spotted a bright red one not far away. I have my fingers crossed that I will be able to scarf up a couple of seed heads from that later on.

In other news we are SO back to the usual weather here! The forecast even says a high of 70 on Wednesday! My kind of weather. Of course I have my early morning summer routine on as usual - turn on box fan in window, open all doors, etc.


message 4: by AB76 (last edited Jul 06, 2021 07:59AM) (new)

AB76 | 6750 comments Lovely colours Lisa!

Reading is going well and i'm glad to be helping the old folk at the day centre, they are so delighted to be back, albeit Tues to Thurs.


In Rebel Richmond Stephen V Ash has composed a really well crafted and succint study of the confederate capital between 1861 and 1865. He observes that what kept the city going without collapse was the incredible number of jobs needed to maintain a capital city, with most linked to the military instititions or producing stuff for the military. A sleepy town with a hiring problem in 1860 became a job mecca by 1863.
Sexism was rife for the women who entered the labour force in quite large numbers, observations that younger, prettier women were favoured and the derogotary comments towards the more matronly expose old prejudices.

Lastly Gunter Grass observes Germany in 1990 in From Germany To Germany 1990 as it moved from two very different nations into the new Germany we have today. Grass is interesting and slightly exasperating in similar handfuls, though mostly interesting, he is definitely a character


message 5: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2570 comments Coincidence in respect of last week's discussion of the menopause, this appeared today:



I was one of the lucky ones and sailed through with no problems.


message 6: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments For @Georg, re: Apeirogon

I don't know if you saw I posted some time ago. I can't say that that it kept me from reading the novel as, just from the description, I knew it was not a book for me, but I enjoyed it as a sample of the art of the negative review.


message 7: by scarletnoir (last edited Jul 06, 2021 01:52AM) (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Bill wrote: "I found the writing style engaging enough to keep me reading, while many of the title character’s tribulations seemed too contrived to really take to heart...

...one might also be depressed by the fact that so many critics, both in the US and abroad, heaped so much praise on such a mediocre novel


Too late to reply 'last week'.

I read it a while ago now, but I found the writing pedestrian - therefore, an insufficient reason to persist with the novel. As for Stoner himself, he appeared to be an insufferable type, impotent and self-pitying (a pity I didn't share). That he should ruin his own life out of weakness is one thing, but I parted company with the book when he abandoned his daughter to his wife, who appeared to be suffering from a mental illness - hardly the behaviour of a 'loving father'. I have rarely felt such contempt for a character in a book!

Indeed, I have come across (fictional) murderers who were far more engaging...

As I didn't finish the book, I don't know how it ended; I rather hoped that Stoner topped himself!

As for the critical response - the book was not a 'lost masterpiece', but 'deservedly forgotten', IMHO.


message 8: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments Bill wrote: "For @Georg, re: Apeirogon

I don't know if you saw the Dwight Garner NY Times review I posted some time ago. I can't say that that it kept me from reading the novel as, just from th..."


Thanks, Bill. I did. And decided not to read it then because I wanted to read the book first.
Now I regret it: the NYT says I have used up my free articles :-(


message 9: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Georg wrote: "Bill wrote: "For @Georg, re: Apeirogon

I don't know if you saw the Dwight Garner NY Times review I posted some time ago. I can't say that that it kept me from reading the novel..."


"the NYT says I have used up my free articles :-( " (Georg)

Me too! I tried Bill's link. A pity, as I have my doubts about the book, despite the praise heaped upon it, and a negative review would at least provide an idea about what might be off-putting (for me). In any case, hatchet jobs are always much more fun that unstinting praise.


message 10: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Georg wrote: "Bill wrote: "For @Georg, re: Apeirogon

I don't know if you saw the Dwight Garner NY Times review I posted some time ago. I can't say that that it kept me from reading..."


I have, at long last, started to write my review last night. Not an easy job, but as I spent more time thinking about that book than reading it I am determined to complete it.


message 11: by Sandya (last edited Jul 06, 2021 08:00AM) (new)

Sandya Narayanswami Stone Cold Trouble. Amer Anwar

Being Indian, I’ve been reading thrillers set in India and am enjoying 2 series of novels, one set in 1920s Calcutta and the Perveen Mistry series, set in Mumbai at the same period. I recently came across Amer Anwar’s novels set in contemporary Southall and was immediately curious since I grew up in Southall, London’s largest Indian community, lived there until 1977, and return whenever I am in London. Stone Cold Trouble is about Zaq Khan, a former IT professional recently released after a 5-year stint in Wormwood Scrubs, and his attempt to help his friend Jags� uncle Lucky, a gambler, who has indiscreetly pledged a family heirloom originally from the treasury of Maharaja Ranjit Singh of the Punjab. Ranjit Singh’s story, which I already knew, was the only historical item in the book and about its only saving grace.

Imagine the sense of déjà vu I got when reading that Zaq’s mate Bongo lived on Woodlands Road! My best friend in Junior School, Pauline Lewis, lived at 57 Woodlands Road and I visited her there many, many times! Pauline was Welsh, and at that time, Southall had a sizeable Welsh population, something most people have forgotten. There is a violent affray between a couple of thugs near Spikes Bridge Park, at the end of our street, where I spent many happy hours playing on the swings. The action occurs in Southall, Hayes, Hanwell, Ealing, Hillingdon, Uxbridge, and Slough. Beaconsfield Road, where I went to Junior School, and Lady Margaret Road, appear. Southall Broadway, and many pubs including the Crooked Billet, play a role�.. In London, not built on a grid, pubs are landmarks�. At least I now have a list of pubs to avoid. It was really weird to see these familiar names but as the stomping grounds of Punjabi thugs effing and blinding every other word and using a lot of Hindi swear words, all too offensive to translate here, but which I understood. This was not “my� Southall�..

While the book is hailed as “Southall Noir� the dialog, swearing, and the testosterone-soaked, nay pickled, "action" spoiled it for me. It is basically about a couple of gangs, by definiton stupid guys who make stupid decisions and think everything can be sorted with fisticuffs. They live in groups, waiting until they get married and, as a friend of mine here said, “get a servant� ie a wife, to clean up after them. There was no attempt to describe Southall, apart from map locations, a problem with novels set in the present. Like the bad "sci-fi" novel I reviewed earlier, the book was 450 pages of dialog. This weakened it. Women are confined to roles as Aunties, Mums, and girlfriends, and have no agency. Guess what, I am of the generation of Zaq’s MUM, a typical Punjabi housewife, but I have done a lot more with my life than ANY of the women in the novel, who either sit at home making masala channa or working at the local hairdresser after a couple of years at Brooklands College.

Southall has, however, changed since I lived there� WE knew we were destined for arranged marriages, so I was bemused to learn the Punjabi community now allows dating! Progress! But I also have a bone to pick with the contention or assumption that Southall is exclusively Punjabi-there were/are all sorts of other Indians living there, including us, South Indians! The endless nicknames were also annoying-Zaq, T, Jags, Gugs, Donny, Bongo, Lucky, Satty, Tonka (Big Boy! Tonka Toy!)-why not use a complete Hindi first name occasionally? It’s so adolescent. Basically, this community operates outside the law and sorts its own issues. Yes, the police are racist, but this, if anything, is the best reason to ensure police racism is stopped-because otherwise entire communities will operate outside the law. The book left me ambivalent and I will probably not read the rest of the series. Too many violent guys.....whose originals I may have known in Junior School.....


message 12: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments scarletnoir wrote: "In any case, hatchet jobs are always much more fun that unstinting praise."

One source for hatchet-job reviews (which seem to be an endangered species in the current rah-rah literary culture) is LitHub’s
They rate reviews, with links, as either Rave, Positive, Mixed or Pan. I have to admit, I generally am only interested in looking at the “Pan� category, which I think of as a way of cutting down on my TBR list.


message 13: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Sandya wrote: "Stone Cold Trouble. Amer Anwar

Being Indian, I’ve been reading thrillers set in India and am enjoying 2 series of novels, one set in 1920s Calcutta and the Perveen Mistry series, set in Mumbai at ..."


I didn't mention Vish Puri, so here's a link. A balance from noir. (I download them from the library.)




message 14: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Georg wrote: "I have, at long last, started to write my review last night. Not an easy job, but as I spent more time thinking about that book than reading it I am determined to complete it."

Indeed, I spent so much time thinking about books like Stoner and Housekeeping, and became so interested in sorting out exactly why they didn’t work for me, that it hardly seems fair to say that I didn’t like them. In most cases it’s disappointment with a widely praised book that gives rise to this kind of intent scrutiny: when I don’t like a book that seems to be universally critically acclaimed, it’s like the critics are saying, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.�

Does that mean I should read Apeirogon in the hope of this kind of critical engagement? Probably not; I tend not to start a work of literary fiction unless I think there’s a reasonable chance I will enjoy it, which isn’t the case here.

Do people read books expecting them to be bad? I have a modest collection of “trashy� novels which I indulge in occasionally, though to my surprise, after reading some of them end up impressing me more than literary novels with similar themes (Valley of the Dolls and The Fan Club for example). Perhaps this just means my tastes are sub-literary. (Though I haven’t yet sunk so low as bingeing on mystery series, except for a shameful sojourn in the ghetto of Sherlock Holmes pastiches.)


message 15: by Sandya (new)

Sandya Narayanswami MK wrote: "Sandya wrote: "Stone Cold Trouble. Amer Anwar

Being Indian, I’ve been reading thrillers set in India and am enjoying 2 series of novels, one set in 1920s Calcutta and the Perveen Mistry series, se..."


Oooh nice! Much more my style! Thank you!


message 16: by AB76 (last edited Jul 06, 2021 09:02AM) (new)

AB76 | 6750 comments Irish author Liam O'Flaherty Liam O'Flaherty was initially not a favoured author of mine, i disliked "Famine" and couldnt get into "The Informer" but a few years later i re-read "The Informer" and loved it and "mr Gilhooley" was another brilliant, sharp, cutting tale of Dublin life

The Puritan (1932) is my next Flaherty and i am looking foward to it. Unlike some other of the leading Irish writers of the 1916-1939 period, O'Flaherty had no time for the catholic church, was involved in Marxist politics, Irish nationalism and served in the British army in WW1

His style is influenced by the expressionist writing coming out of Germany in the 1920s, mixed with an Irish richness of tone and composition.


message 17: by Andy (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1486 comments Popisho or This One Sky Day by Leone Ross Popisho by Leone Ross .
In a state of depression after the death of his wife, chef Xavier seeks solace in hard drugs, while on another of the Dead Islands, a former lover of his is also almost at a state of despair, having had several miscarriages, and her husband is away with other women.
Straight forward enough, well not really.
Though it takes sometime into the novel until they emerge, indications of magic materialise; it has after all been promised from the outset..
Everyone in Popisho was born with a little something-something, boy, a little something extra. The local name was cors. Magic, but more than magic. A gift, nah.

Xavier is the town’s macaenus, his gift is to be able to cook meals that nourish an individual’s particular needs. His vice, brought on by his wife’s untimely death, has transitioned from the relatively harmless butterfly consumption, to giant moths, which are more like heroin.
This is a very different and highly entertaining novel, though I couldn’t help but feel Ross got a bit carried away at times. The cast of characters, and their various cors is huge, too many to keep track of. The best humour is short and crisp, and as with Gilliam’s writing for Python, there’s nothing wrong with things becoming absurd, at least for a while. But the sequence involving the ‘pum-pum� of every Popisho woman falling out, for no apparent reason, is laboured and overdone (probably occupying, on and off, about a quarter of the novel).
I expect this will be a much discussed and even award winning novel though, the reason being it’s unique style of story-telling, and the smart way some of society’s key issues are handled, notably prejudice and the power of the people in exposing corruption and wrongdoing.
There is tremendous ambition here, which combined with its vigour and strong flavour, makes it great fun to read.


message 18: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 581 comments AB76 wrote: "Irish author Liam O'Flaherty."

I've been waiting for a good collection of his stories to turn up. I read a collection of Irish short stories and the highlight for me was O'Flaherty's "the Conger Eel".


message 19: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Bill wrote: "I haven’t yet sunk so low as bingeing on mystery series...

Haha! Well, that's telling us... ;-)

As you probably know, I'm never offended when another dislikes a favourite book. I wonder what you include in 'mystery', though? Cop/PI books vary so much, from the genteel (with murder) such as Agatha Christie or Dorothy L Sayers, to Chandler and on to James Ellroy. It's hardly a homogenous category! Do you include them all, or is it a more constrained category?


message 20: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6750 comments SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Irish author Liam O'Flaherty."

I've been waiting for a good collection of his stories to turn up. I read a collection of Irish short stories and the highlight for me was O'Flaherty's ..."


there are a few collections of his short stories in print, he is usually grouped with O'Connor and O'Faolain, as the generation that came of age as the Irish Free State emerged in the 1920-23 period. I recommend the short stories of O'Faolain as well


message 21: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2570 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "I haven’t yet sunk so low as bingeing on mystery series...

Haha! Well, that's telling us... ;-)

As you probably know, I'm never offended when another dislikes a favourite book. I won..."


We are very happy with our genre of mysteries aren't we scarlet? On my third in a row of Damien Boyd's Nick Dixon series. They are getting better as they go.


message 22: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6253 comments Mod
Bill wrote: "I tend not to start a work of literary fiction unless I think there’s a reasonable chance I will enjoy it..."

I find this a very strange thing to say - is there anyone of whom this isn't true? Or am I taking you too literally ...

At the moment, I'm about two-thirds of the way through The Mirror & the Light and it's splendid.
In terms of sinking low, I've got a second Gianrico Carofiglio lined up: Les Raisons du doute (Ragionevoli dubbi, Reasonable Doubts). Thank you scarletnoir. I'm interested to see the difference between the original title (& the English one) and the French one. Like Georg, I've fallen for the hero.


message 23: by SydneyH (new)

SydneyH | 581 comments AB76 wrote: "there are a few collections of his short stories in print"

I'm eyeing off the Wounded Cormorant and Other Stories, but I would welcome a Complete Stories edition.


message 24: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Hey! An old friend, and frequent visitor to the old TLS paths has just gotten reviewed in The Guardian:



One of us, One of us!


message 25: by Lljones (new)

Lljones | 1033 comments Mod
Paul wrote: "Hey! An old friend, and frequent visitor to the old TLS paths has just gotten reviewed in The Guardian..."

Ooh! Ooh! The book looks quite interesting, too. (Anne will be thrilled.)


message 26: by Lljones (new)

Lljones | 1033 comments Mod
scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "I haven’t yet sunk so low as bingeing on mystery series...

Haha! Well, that's telling us... ;-)..."


I'm reading and enjoying Bloody Murder: From the Detective Story to the Crime Novel by Julian Symons. It's a quite thorough review and critique of the various genres and their various labels. I recommend it to those who binge (or used to binge, like me) and those who scoff. (Symons agrees with you, Bill, about Josephine Tey.)


message 27: by AB76 (last edited Jul 07, 2021 03:57AM) (new)

AB76 | 6750 comments SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "there are a few collections of his short stories in print"

I'm eyeing off the Wounded Cormorant and Other Stories, but I would welcome a Complete Stories edition."


I think there a few complete editions out there but out of print.

Irish literature is amazing deep in quality from the roughly 1850-1950 era. I am not meaning the giants like Joyce, Shaw or Wilde but numerous other writers of real talent and originality.

I remember reading that the flourishing of scottish philosophical talent in the 18th c was due to the solid lowland schooling system in scotland that followed 1688. I wonder what influenced such high standards of irish works, something inate i'm sure, as Ireland punches way above its weight on almost every level

But to think by 1850, the famine was destroying the population base gives food for thought and subsequent post 1860 arguments of Protestant /Anglo-Irish excellence would fail as the balance is about 50/50.


message 28: by CCCubbon (last edited Jul 07, 2021 08:33AM) (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments Bill wrote ‘Though I haven’t yet sunk so low as bingeing on mystery series, except for a shameful sojourn in the ghetto of Sherlock Holmes pastiches.) �

If I remember correctly you have an equally low opinion of poetry or does that rank even lower…�.. oh, Bill, I hope you were just joshing, - it has been getting bogged down in serious war history lately here.
Better to relax with a mystery than not read at all.

reply | flag *


message 29: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Sometimes, during a conversation, I'll open my mouth to comment on A and, as the conversation continues, find myself veering off on some obscure tangent until I realize the befuddlement in other eyes.

To that end, I have just (insert teardrop here) finished reading the final Cadfael (Boy, could that woman write!) and am done with the 12th Century on the Welsh Border. That is, unless I actually crack Stephen and Matilda's Civil War Cousins of Anarchy by Matthew Lewis for further enlightenment.

"For my digression, I add that the US has quietly pulled out of its big base at Bagram after 20 years in country. And just last week the US was messing around in Iraq once again. It's a reach but I look at the chaos of 12 Century England (or the early 1800s of Confederation USA) and wonder at 'our' naivete that neither Afghanistan nor Iraq has embraced democracy in this short time period.

Off to find the next mystery series so I can hide my head from the world around me.


message 30: by Paul (new)

Paul | 1 comments Lljones wrote: "Paul wrote: "Hey! An old friend, and frequent visitor to the old TLS paths has just gotten reviewed in The Guardian..."

Ooh! Ooh! The book looks quite interesting, too. (Anne will be thrilled.)"

It does look interesting, and I remember it being the topic of his PhD dissertation. At the time, it seemed like he had found his own niche, and Tim seems to have mined it wonderfully.


message 31: by CCCubbon (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments I have been wanting to read
The Dictionary of Lost Words by Pip Williams for some time and at last I have started.
In the Prologue she says

‘Some words are more important than others � I learned this, growing up in the Scriptorium. But it took
me a long time to understand why.�

Can you give me three important words? I give you love, truth and peace.


message 32: by Bill (last edited Jul 07, 2021 10:04AM) (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments In regard to mystery series:

I am very fond of the Sherlock Holmes stories, and though they are in their way embroideries of Poe’s Dupin trio, I feel Conan Doyle pretty much did both the detective story and series character to perfection: subsequent attempts are doomed, at best, to be mere second or third pressings (to use Pierre Boulez’s characterization of Shostakovich).

I’ve also read very few mystery stories of the whodunit type that justified being spun out to novel length, again with the exception of Doyle’s The Hound of the Baskervilles (though he pretty much kept The Sign of Four short enough and the two other Holmes “novels� are actually non-detective novellas set up with an introductory detective story). Reading novels stuffed with so much excelsior (as Edmund Wilson referred to red herring subplots) really makes me feel like I’m wasting my time.

Finally, I find I don’t want to pick up novels which recycle the same characters in book after book in theoretically endless series, though I can tolerate series characters if there’s a story arc across a limited number of volumes (as with Updike’s Rabbit or Colette’s Claudine, which I’m currently reading).

I should say that I’ve tended to enjoy most of Margaret Millar’s mysteries which I‘ve read, though I enjoy them as thrillers or more traditional social novels. The mystery element in them, which frequently involves a well-hidden twist that leaps out unexpectedly at the end, often seems to me a superfluous distraction. Most of her books do not involve series characters � I’m avoiding the few that do.

@Lljones, I like to read books about the mystery genre much more than actually reading mysteries, so I would definitely try the Symons if it crosses my path. I have read Murder for Pleasure: The Life and Times of the Detective Story, which was a little too fan-boyish at times, and in a humorous vein, Gun in Cheek: An Affectionate Guide to the "Worst" in Mystery Fiction and Son of Gun in Cheek: An Affectionate Guide to More of the "Worst" in Mystery Fiction. I picked up The Art of the Mystery Story at a book sale some time ago but haven’t yet read it.


message 33: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments I was curious about Julian Symons and Josephine Tey; I thought The Daughter of Time one of the worst books I’ve read, but it is a work particularly venerated among mystery writers and a number of critics. Through Google I found quoting from and reacting to Symons� book.
Symons, however, was not impressed with Time , complaining that there
is nothing new about the theory [of the murders advanced by Grant]....Grant's almost total ignorance of history is the most remarkable thing about the book. The pleasure taken by critics in the slow unfolding of a thesis already well known suggests a similar ignorance on their part. Still more to the point is the fact that this amateur rehashing of a well-known argument, interspersed with visits from friends to the detective's bedside is, as one might expect, really rather dull.
Another blog post, linked to in the one on Tey, gives some pretty harsh criticisms from Symons on Cornell Woolrich and James M. Cain, two writers I do like. At least he admires Hammett and, to some extent Chandler, articulating something that may in part explain why I stopped after The High Window (“Philip Marlowe becomes with each book more a piece of wish-fulfillment, an idealized expression of Chandler himself, a strictly literary conception�).


message 34: by Lljones (last edited Jul 07, 2021 01:30PM) (new)

Lljones | 1033 comments Mod
Bill wrote: "I was curious about Julian Symons and Josephine Tey; I thought The Daughter of Time one of the worst books I’ve read, but it is a work particularly venerated among mystery writers and ..."

You might look for Symons on Highsmith while you're at it...

Symons own books were some of my favorites, back in the day.


message 35: by Reen (new)

Reen | 257 comments AB76 wrote: "SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Irish author Liam O'Flaherty."

I've been waiting for a good collection of his stories to turn up. I read a collection of Irish short stories and the highlight for me w..."


I'll have to do a class on fadas AB! It's Ó Faoláin ... the sound changes on the "a" with the accent as you probably know... the O is sounded the same as the O in O'Flaherty but styled differently and doesn't exist at all in the English translation of the name Ó Faoláin. I'm full of useless information ... but particular about my fadas, which can be rendered in text by pressing the letter and alt gr at the same time. Slán!


message 36: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Lljones wrote: "You might look for Symons on Highsmith while you're at it..."

I find a few highly positive comments but no extended discussion. Certainly Highsmith seems like she would be one of the primary writers presented by someone who wants crime fiction to be regarded as serious literature. In a frequently stalled project I’ve been slowly reading my way through all of her novels; late last year I got up to The Glass Cell. So far, I’ve only encountered one book by her that I would consider a mystery (in the whodunit sense): A Game for the Living. As a mystery, that is to say a puzzle, I don’t think it was especially good, though it did carry forward her examinations of guilt and atonement in an interesting setting.

I’ve only read the first Ripley novel (which seems to be for many people is the only Highsmith they’ve read); though it was good, I didn’t think it quite up to her highest standards. Knowing my distaste for series characters, I’m not sure how I’ll feel about the other Ripley books when I finally get to them.

I tend to think of her crime novels as variations on Crime and Punishment.


message 37: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Thanks to NYRB Books on Twitter, I've just discovered that have a books podcast. I haven't yet listened to any, but some of the topics are intriguing, particularly for me "Trashy Novels To Die For", which lists personal favorites Valley of the Dolls, The Best of Everything, Peyton Place, and The Bad Seed.


message 38: by Bill (last edited Jul 07, 2021 04:18PM) (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Gpfr wrote: "Bill wrote: "I tend not to start a work of literary fiction unless I think there’s a reasonable chance I will enjoy it..."

I find this a very strange thing to say - is there anyone of whom this isn't true? Or am I taking you too literally ...


I would think that there are a number of people who don’t necessarily think that they will enjoy a work of fiction but begin reading it anyway. I’d guess that currently most such people are to be found in book groups that meet regularly; some, too, I suppose, are taking literature courses, either for credit or as an adult education course.

But back in the day when certain books, on occasion, were actually something that were widely read and discussed in the news and popular culture, and even in small talk between actual normal people, even I was known, once or twice, to read things which did not necessarily seem like they would be particularly enjoyable.

Then there is the dreaded “You’ve got to read this…� book handed on by a friend or acquaintance which, depending on the nature of the relationship (or its perceived potential) may result in a book actually being read, albeit reluctantly.


message 39: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Speaking of series books, this is the first time I've seen something like this:

Looking through the reviews on my ŷ front page, I saw that someone reviewed The Law of Innocence, which is tagged as "(Mickey Haller, #7; Harry Bosch Universe #34)".

Aaarrrgh! It's metastasizing!


message 40: by FranHunny (new)

FranHunny | 130 comments Hi gang, yeah, still alive and kicking,
have a link from the Guardian


But cannot agree on this part of the article:

Nor do they crop up much in historical novels and costume dramas, ceding instead either to the Tudors (Hilary Mantel, Philippa Gregory) or the neo-gothic (Sarah Waters, Susanna Clarke).

Haven't they read their Jane Austen, their Georgette Heyer and her paler imitations, haven't they seen that Cornwall based costume drama which got hyped in the Guardian ... forgot the name ...


message 41: by Robert (new)

Robert | 1036 comments Lljones wrote: "Greetings, all!

I'm not sure how, but I survived the brutal heat last week. Plenty of neighborhood garden flowers bit the dust, but the hydrangeas are going strong!

Keep the hydrangeas flying!

Two weeks of birthdays to sc..."



message 42: by Gpfr (last edited Jul 08, 2021 01:10AM) (new)

Gpfr | 6253 comments Mod
Bill wrote: "I would think that there are a number of people who don’t necessarily think that they will enjoy a work of fiction but begin reading it anyway..."

True - On reading your comment I didn't think of situations like book groups, courses etc. But the choice is to participate in the group / follow the course rather than of the book. The dreaded “You’ve got to read this…� book may indeed lead to reading something we wouldn't otherwise choose to.


message 43: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments Bill wrote: "Thanks to NYRB Books on Twitter, I've just discovered that Marlon James and his editor have a books podcast. I haven't yet listened to any, but some of the topics are intriguing, particularly for m..."

Thanks for the link, Bill, looked at it and it sounds most interesting.

"Trashy novels to die for" sent me down memory lane.
I remembered one of my favourite authors when I was a teenager:
Johannes Mario Simmel.
All of his books were huge bestsellers in Germany:
political thrillers in the vein of John le Carre combined with racy love stories (I remember some explicit sex scenes).

The literary establishment , of course, looked down on him.

I suspect if I re-read him today I would still enjoy him more than a lot of prize-winning arty-farty stuff.


message 44: by Hushpuppy (new)

Hushpuppy LL - I've just noticed that in the Justine memorial thread, the link in "here’s a link to a typical week at TLS" doesn't work (it's just a "." that is linked).


message 45: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6750 comments Reen wrote: "AB76 wrote: "SydneyH wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Irish author Liam O'Flaherty."

I've been waiting for a good collection of his stories to turn up. I read a collection of Irish short stories and the highl..."


his real name was John Francis Whelan, is the irish name a direct translation?


message 46: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments CCCubbon wrote: "If I remember correctly you have an equally low opinion of poetry or does that rank even lower…�.."

Regarding poetry, I’m OK with narrative poems and humorous verse, but when it comes to modern poetry (20th century and beyond, and some earlier works as well) I guess I’m pretty much tone deaf to the vast majority of it. Nine times out of ten I’ll look at a poem and it will just sit there, being and not meaning. (I have the same experience with the paintings of Rothko and the music of Morton Feldman.)

With poems, they can often gain some significance for me by being included in a larger, non-poetic context such as a musical setting, embedding in a narrative (think of the Auden in Four Weddings and a Funeral, a poem earlier set by Ned Rorem), or some critical commentary or Explication de Texte. I read How to Read a Poem two years ago and, while Raffel’s commentary was sufficient to inject some meaning into most of the poems he included, the book essentially fed me fish rather than teaching me to fish.


message 47: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments For those of you who can access the BBC - A reminder for those of you needing a break from the football, Wimbledon and the Tour of France, “The 39 Steps� starring Rupert Penry-Jones is on BBC 4 tonight at 8 pm.
It is followed by “John Buchan: Master of Suspense� at 9.25, which is described as “Unfairly known as a one-hit wonder for his noirish novel The Thirty-Nine Steps, this drama-documentary tells the story of the real John Buchan, affording him the attention he has long deserved. Drawing on both his published works and his private correspondence and papers, with unique access provided by his latest biographer, the film is the first full television profile of an extraordinary man.�

PS - If any of you have the ear of an MP who likes the BBC (assuming there are one or two), ask that Parliament explore an international pay-to-play service to add to the BBC coffers. Thanks.


message 48: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Bill wrote: "I was curious about Julian Symons and Josephine Tey; I thought The Daughter of Time one of the worst books I’ve read, but it is a work particularly venerated among mystery writers and ..."

Not a The Daughter of Time fan but love the final twist in A Shilling for Candles.


message 49: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Bill wrote: "Speaking of series books, this is the first time I've seen something like this:

Looking through the reviews on my ŷ front page, I saw that someone reviewed [book:The Law of Innocence|51810..."


Somehow I don't see Harry Bosch being happy as part of a universe, given that I see him as - socially shy!


message 50: by MK (last edited Jul 08, 2021 10:10AM) (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments If there are any Sujata Massey fans here who didn't tune in on the Zoom show yesterday from Pittsburgh, she has links to several talks on her website.

The show was interesting, and I learned some history which is always a plus for me.


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