Ordeal by Innocence in Appointment With Agatha

Sep 26, 2016 BrokenTune rated it really liked it

Shelves: reviewed

鈥楢ll right. It鈥檚 your say so鈥揳nd you鈥檙e sticking to it. Jacko didn鈥檛 kill her. Very well then鈥搘ho did kill her? You haven鈥檛 thought about that one, have you? Think about it now. Think about it鈥揳nd then you鈥檒l begin to see what you鈥檙e doing to us all鈥︹€�

I've been reading away on my Agatha Christie project for a while, and although the books tend to, with exceptions, follow a formula, there are other issues or themes that Christie discusses in the different books. This could be anything from discuss 鈥楢ll right. It鈥檚 your say so鈥揳nd you鈥檙e sticking to it. Jacko didn鈥檛 kill her. Very well then鈥搘ho did kill her? You haven鈥檛 thought about that one, have you? Think about it now. Think about it鈥揳nd then you鈥檒l begin to see what you鈥檙e doing to us all鈥︹€�

I've been reading away on my Agatha Christie project for a while, and although the books tend to, with exceptions, follow a formula, there are other issues or themes that Christie discusses in the different books. This could be anything from discussing morality and justice (as she does in Orient Express and And Then There Were None) to superstitions (as she does in Endless Night).

She's not always successful with this in the sense that she makes a valid argument or finds common ground with the sensibilities of her readers - tho, maybe she was more successful with the latter in her own time - but she does pick up topics for discussion that have nothing to do with the murder plot itself.

In Ordeal by Innocence, Christie dedicates her "side discussion" to the topic of adoption.

鈥楢ll tragic histories in a way,鈥� said Philip. 鈥楢ll poor unwanted little devils.鈥�
鈥榊es,鈥� said Leo. 鈥楾hat鈥檚 what made Rachel feel so passionately about them all. She was determined to make them feel wanted, to give them a real home, be a real mother to them.鈥�
鈥業t was a fine thing to do,鈥� said Philip.
鈥極nly鈥搊nly it can never work out exactly as she hoped it might,鈥� said Leo. 鈥業t was an article of faith with her that the blood tie didn鈥檛 matter. But the blood tie does matter, you know. There is usually something in one鈥檚 own children, some kink of temperament, some way of feeling that you recognize and can understand without having to put into words. You haven鈥檛 got that tie with children you adopt. One has no instinctive knowledge of what goes on in their minds. You judge them, of course, by yourself, by your own thoughts and feelings, but it鈥檚 wise to recognize that those thoughts and feelings may be very widely divergent from theirs.鈥�
鈥榊ou understood that, I suppose, all along,鈥� said Philip.
鈥業 warned Rachel about it,鈥� said Leo, 鈥榖ut of course she didn鈥檛 believe it. Didn鈥檛 want to believe it. She wanted them to be her own children.鈥�

Having read her points, it seems Christie argues that adoptive parents can never have the same bond with "their" children as natural parents and that all adopted children will carry a chip of rejection on their shoulder. I am not going to argue for nor against this thesis, but I do acknowledge that there is a lot of controversy in Christie's statements on the subject of adoption in this book. There is no indication of what made Christie bring this up other than to have a side discussion in the book, but to me these side issues - however controversial or even offensive they may be - are an aspect of what I enjoy about the books.

I guess, Christie's use of the uncertainty about familial trust as the major drivers of plot in this particular mystery makes it quite similar to Appointment with Death, but family set up is completely different in this story. It has been fun to watch the mystery unravel, knowing that the similarity with her other books is just one of the red herrings that Christie is so famous for.

Who is it who said: 鈥淣othing is ever settled until鈥撯€濃€� 鈥樷€淯ntil it is settled right,鈥濃€� Miss Vaughan finished for him. 鈥楰ipling.鈥� ...more

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Nov 30, 2024 Wanda Pedersen rated it really liked it

Shelves: female-authors, brit-lit, public-library, mysteries-thrillers, read-in-2024

Much more directly psychological than most of Christie's output, this novel explores the nature/nurture debate, human dynamics in the family, and the role of the mother of adoptive children. Mrs. Argyle, the victim of murder (presumably by her adoptive son, Jacko), was a force to be reckoned with. She supported the family, ran the house, mothered her children far too much, and sent her husband retreating into historical studies, where he could feel like he had some autonomy.

When Dr. Calgary app Much more directly psychological than most of Christie's output, this novel explores the nature/nurture debate, human dynamics in the family, and the role of the mother of adoptive children. Mrs. Argyle, the victim of murder (presumably by her adoptive son, Jacko), was a force to be reckoned with. She supported the family, ran the house, mothered her children far too much, and sent her husband retreating into historical studies, where he could feel like he had some autonomy.

When Dr. Calgary appears on the scene, returned from the Antarctic and having newly heard about the case, he reveals that Jacko had an alibi for the night of the murder and has died in prison for a crime he could not have committed. Those remaining in the household quickly realize that there must be a murderer in their midst. Calgary and the police are both asking uncomfortable questions鈥攅ven Philip Durrant, the wheelchair bound son in law, is amusing himself by investigating on his own.

At one point, someone describes Mrs. Argyle's parenting style as 鈥渟mothering,鈥� something which all of her many adoptive children would agree with, though some of them coped with it better than others. Mary, wife of Philip, seems to have chosen a similar possessive style to care for her disabled husband. He resents it as sharply, understandably saying his brain is just fine. Christie can lay all kinds of red herrings within this situation, where resentments seethe just beneath the surface.

I knew a man, adopted into a good family and raised with every advantage, who nevertheless felt hard done by. He couldn't have been more different from his adoptive brother if he'd tried. He eventually met his natural brothers and his behaviour was just like them鈥攖etchy, quick to anger, grudge holding, and believing that everything was stacked against him. That's how powerful genetics can be. I was a friend of his mother and was dismayed by the way he treated her. She was kind without smothering (although perhaps with a tendency to 鈥渂e right" too often, like Mrs. Argyle). I couldn't help but think about them while reading this.

I think that I'll be rereading this novel in the future, just to examine how Christie shaped it so deftly and to try to parse what she felt about being a child and being a mother.
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Jan 20, 2016 Christine PNW rated it liked it

Shelves: vintage-women

Through this Christie reread, I've discovered that some of my favorite books are the ones where she abandons the fussy, arrogant Poirot and the cotton-wool-over-steel Miss Marple for a one-or-two-off character study of a murder. Crooked House, And Then There Were None, Towards Zero, Endless Night have all ended up as favorites. Perhaps my least favorite part of the Poirot novels is Poirot?

Not really, but he can be truly irritating.

Anyway, this is another of her stand-alones, featuring a charac ...more

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Mar 14, 2014 Laura rated it liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: audio-books, fiction-20th-century, british-literature, suspense-thriller, read-2014

From BBC Radio 4:
Doctor Calgary comes to visit the Argyle family with good news, or so he thinks. He tells the family he is there to clear the name of Jacko, who was convicted of the murder of his mother. But his news is not greeted with the enthusiasm he expects.

directed by Mary Peate.

Along with Crooked House, Ordeal by Innocence was Agatha Christie's favourite of her own works. It is easy to see why. Eschewing the traditional detective format, it takes an original idea - how the innocent suffe ...more

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Apr 01, 2018 Literary Ames rated it it was ok · review of another edition

Shelves: stage-and-screen, kindle, classics, crime-mystery-thriller, read-in-2018

Book vs. 2018 BBC Adaptation = Adaptation wins.

Book Review

(1) The picture painted of Rachel Argyll's character, our murder victim, was an interesting one. She becomes a collector of orphaned and unwanted children in order to fill a hole in her life that can't be filled, and while she looks after their every physical need, she's as guilty of neglect as the parents of those unwanted children in her care. She's unable to love. She shows no affection for her husband or her adopted children. They ...more

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Nov 24, 2022 Roseli Gomes rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: agatha-christie, readchristie2022, desafio-2022, readagatha2022

Ol谩 caros leitores de AC!
Mais um 贸timo livro sem os personagens costumeiros. Acredito no que li na resenha do '脡 f谩cil matar": quando n茫o havia press茫o das editoras ficava mais f谩cil dar asas 脿 imagina莽茫o, e mais uma vez vislumbrei o culpado, mas n茫o a causa... nem tudo 茅 perfeito na nossa leitura

Como sempre, prestigio a resenha de leitores de AC que, como eu, faz essa jornada, muits vezes solit谩ria, mesmo AC sendo atemporal.
**

Si Ol谩 caros leitores de AC!
Mais um 贸timo livro sem os personagens costumeiros. Acredito no que li na resenha do '脡 f谩cil matar": quando n茫o havia press茫o das editoras ficava mais f谩cil dar asas 脿 imagina莽茫o, e mais uma vez vislumbrei o culpado, mas n茫o a causa... nem tudo 茅 perfeito na nossa leitura

Como sempre, prestigio a resenha de leitores de AC que, como eu, faz essa jornada, muits vezes solit谩ria, mesmo AC sendo atemporal.
**

Sinopse: Jacko Argyle 茅 detido sob alega莽茫o de que teria assassinado sua m茫e em um surto de loucura, sendo condenado 脿 pris茫o perp茅tua. Dois anos depois, surge uma prova, encontrada pelo doutor Arthur Calgary, de que o preso 茅 inocente, mas a descoberta chega tarde demais: Jacko morre atr谩s das grades. Os achados do doutor reabrem as feridas dos membros da fam铆lia, que passam a encarar uns aos outros com desconfian莽a e suspeita, assombrados com a possibilidade de que o verdadeiro assassino ainda esteja entre eles. (Resenha: Puni莽茫o para a Inoc锚ncia 鈥� Agatha Christie)

Opini茫o: Puni莽茫o para a inoc锚ncia foi uma leitura diferente para mim. Primeiro livro que li da Agatha sem um detetive famoso para ajudar a desvendar o mist茅rio. Nada de Poirot ou Miss Marple. Aqui, o leitor vai adentrando nos acontecimentos junto de todos os suspeitos.

Preciso dizer que, de todas as minhas leituras de Agatha Christie, essa foi a mais intensa. Os personagens s茫o todos muito bem caracterizados, como em toda hist贸ria dela, mas nesse foi diferente. A cada cap铆tulo, um membro da fam铆lia era o foco e voc锚 chega a gostar dessa pessoa (ou, pelo menos, simpatizar)鈥� At茅 que a autora puxa seu tapete e te alerta: N脙O CONFIE EM NINGU脡M.

Comecei a desconfiar at茅 mesmo da minha sombra enquanto estava lendo Puni莽茫o para a inoc锚ncia. Agatha faz um jogo mental nessas p谩ginas que 茅 de pirar a cabe莽a. O tempo inteiro os personagens se questionam se realmente conhecem seus pais, seus irm茫os, seus amores. Tudo fica muito obscuro quando o caso de Jacko 茅 reaberto. Novos relatos surgem e voc锚 n茫o sabe pra onde correr ou em quem confiar.

A Rainha do Crime foi muito pertinente ao enla莽ar o mist茅rio junto com os dramas de uma fam铆lia despeda莽ada pelo tempo. Todos os membros da fam铆lia s茫o desenvolvidos primorosamente, cada um 脿 sua maneira, e seus respectivos problemas com o conceito familiar criado na hist贸ria s茫o parte essencial para o entendimento do crime. 脡 incr铆vel como a autora conseguiu criar tamb茅m o ambiente da casa em que a trama se desenrola. Todo o clima 茅 pesado, os c么modos parecem ter vida pr贸pria e ningu茅m est谩 seguro dentro daquele lugar.

A conclus茫o 茅 chocante, mas ao mesmo tempo estava na nossa cara o tempo todo. Agatha vai soltar pistas (que podem vingar ou n茫o) ao longo de toda a narrativa. A melhor parte 茅 realmente juntar todas as pe莽as do quebra-cabe莽a, apostar em um culpado e, no final, ser feito de trouxa pela autora. Obviamente, tudo se encaixa e voc锚 fica perplexo pela genialidade dessa escrita t茫o fluida e cativante. Puni莽茫o para a inoc锚ncia ficou, claro, com 5 estrelas! ...more

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Oct 07, 2023 Debbie Maskus rated it liked it · review of another edition

Ordeal by Innocence does not follow the standard Agatha Christie format. This novel presents the psychology of the suspects in a murder of a domineering woman. Rachel Argyle, a wealthy and generous woman falls victim to death by a poker. Her adopted son, Jacko, falls prey to a conviction for her murder and dies in prison from pneumonia. He had claimed his innocence by stating a man gave him a ride. The man, Dr. Calgary, meets with obstacles and does not confirm Jacko鈥檚 plea until two years later ...more

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