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I thought I'd start a new thread for as the subject seemed to be taking over the April/May Group Read on Stalking the Goddess by Mark Carter.

I'll begin with two posts, this first one takes the form of a question for Mark prompted by the quotation from his book below.

Mark wrote (in STG):
'No mention of woman is made throughout the book and even images of birth are ridiculously attributed to man.'

Yet one of the first five emblems in the book, the section that Adam McLean calls the polarities, is of a lion and a lioness - representative of the masculine and the feminine that have to be unified in order for the spiritual alchemy to take place.

Of the meeting of the Stag and Unicorn, Adam writes:

Next in Emblem 3 we have the beautiful picture of the meeting in a clearing in the forest of a magnificent Stag and a graceful Unicorn. The Stag as a symbol is often associated with the Sun and the Unicorn is usually linked with the Moon. These polarities are to be coupled together through the alchemist's work.

Masculine and feminine are almost certainly represented here, not only in the archetypes of the Stag and the Unicorn, but in those of the Sun and Moon (actually depicted in emblem X11, in which the figures representing the Soul and the Spirit stand on top of the mountain).

And in the verse accompanying emblem V11, the feminine is not only present, but vital:

A nest is found in the forest,
In which Hermes has his brood;
One fledgling always strives to fly upward,
The other rejoices to sit quietly in the nest;
Yet neither can get away from the other.
The one that is below holds the one that is above,
And will not let it get away from the nest,
As a husband in a house with his wife,
Bound together in closest bonds of wedlock.
So do we rejoice at all times,
That we hold the female eagle fast in this way,
And we render thanks to God the Father.

(The bold is mine.)

Although this could be interpreted as the male holding the female captive, it's clearly stated above the verse: We hear two birds in the forest, yet we must understand them to be only one.

What you call 'images of birth... ridiculously attributed to man' would have less impact if the 'old father of Israel' had been an old mother.

It's a strange little book, and I've read it many times, but never considered it as lacking in the feminine until reading STG.

Mark replied to my post saying that he might have to look at Lambspring again (Here), and I posted again with another thought (below).

Lambspring is very clear that the animals represent Spirit and Soul, and that these two must be united in the Body.

Our problem today is that the difference between spirit and soul is not clear. I tend to think of spirit as being disembodied soul, but surprisingly, my (oldish) New Oxford Dictionary gives one definition of Spirit as:

a. ...another name for the Holy Ghost. b.God,especially when transcending material limitations.

If Lambspring intended Spirit to indicate God rather than that free part of the psyche (for want of a better word) that needed to be unified with Soul, that puts a quite different meaning on the whole book.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any thoughts on The Book of Lambspring - you can read the verses and see the emblems at

Nell wrote: "Lambspring is very clear that the animals represent Spirit and Soul, and that these two must be united in the Body.

Our problem today is that the difference between spirit and soul is not clear. ..."

Hi Nell--I suppose it doesn't belong here either, perhaps we need a thread for Spirit. I have had many long conversations with a close friend about this over the past number of months. His definition of spirit is "that which animates", which I rather like, as for me, Spirit has nothing to do with religion.

Our recent conversations have focused on breath or wind as an animator, or perhaps "the" animator.

Hi Sara, thanks for copying your post.

I was surprised to see that definition of 'Spirit' as 'God' without the word 'Holy' before it. And if spirit is 'that which animates', what then is soul?

I guess there are subtle differences of definition attached to both, depending on the time and place (and possibly the religion) of whoever was using the words, and to understand Lambspring fully one would have to know what his understanding was most likely to be.

Personally, I don't much use/invoke the word "soul". It has unfortunate religious overtones for me, and I get all wrapped around the axle even trying to write about it. I do think there are many who use the terms interchangeably.

Yes, I do think that writing on this subject is conditioned by the historical context as well as the understanding of the writer. These are terms that IMO have morphed over the centuries.

I found Old Barbarossa's post on the definition interesting, mostly because lately I have been associating the Greek thumos with spirit.

Geminio!
And by the magic of copy/paste here we go!

Folks from Online Etymology (

"Original usage in English mainly from passages in Vulgate, where the Latin word translates Greek pneuma and Hebrew ruah. Distinction between "soul" and "spirit" (as "seat of emotions") became current in Christian terminology (e.g. Greek psykhe vs. pneuma, Latin anima vs. spiritus) but "is without significance for earlier periods" [Buck]. Latin spiritus, usually in classical Latin "breath," replaces animus in the sense "spirit" in the imperial period and appears in Christian writings as the usual equivalent of Greek pneuma."

Thanks! The definition from Online Etymology is interesting, but pretty difficult to pin down. Back soon with some thoughts...

Returning to I thought it might be useful to have the whole definition, as well as the central part (above).

spirit (n.)
mid-13c., "animating or vital principle in man and animals," from Old French espirit, from Latin spiritus "soul, courage, vigor, breath," related to spirare "to breathe," from PIE *(s)peis- "to blow" (cf. Old Church Slavonic pisto "to play on the flute").

Meaning "supernatural being" is attested from c.1300 (see ghost); that of "essential principle of something" (in a non-theological sense, e.g. Spirit of St. Louis) is attested from 1690, common after 1800. Plural form spirits "volatile substance" is an alchemical idea, first attested 1610; sense narrowed to "strong alcoholic liquor" by 1670s. This also is the sense in spirit level (1768).

soul (n.1)
Old English sawol "spiritual and emotional part of a person, animate existence," from Proto-Germanic *saiwalo (cf. Old Saxon seola, Old Norse sala, Old Frisian sele, Middle Dutch siele, Dutch ziel, Old High German seula, German Seele, Gothic saiwala), of uncertain origin. Sometimes said to mean originally "coming from or belonging to the sea," because that was supposed to be the stopping place of the soul before birth or after death. Hence, from Proto-Germanic *saiwaz (see sea). Meaning "spirit of a deceased person" is attested in Old English from 971. As a synonym for "person, individual" (e.g. every living soul) it dates from early 14c.

Interestingly, all the above definitions are old enough to be relevant to The Book of Lambspring, first published, under the title De Lapide PhilosophicoTriga Chemicum (Prague 1599). The section about the sea as the stopping place for the soul before birth and after death is interesting, and something I haven't come across before.