Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

In Chapter 29 Nell is" decorated with artificial flowers, and in this state and ceremony rode slowly through the town every morning, dispersing handbills from a basket, to the sound of drum and trumpet". And of course "the beauty of the child, coupled with her gentle and timid bearing, produced quite a sensation in the little country place". I just thought I should point out to you Nell bashers just in case you missed it, that poor Nell was beautiful, gentle and timid. Also decorated with flowers and announced with drum and trumpet, the perfect good child. In every way simply perfect. None of your moral ambiguity here :-}

It is so hard to like grandfather. He and Nell seem to be settled with Mrs. Jarley, both are working and making money. They both seem fairly happy, and just like that he only hears men playing cards in another room and he's back into his gambling habit again. I've read about gambling addiction before...." Gambling addiction, also known as compulsive gambling, is a type of impulse-control disorder. Compulsive gamblers can’t control the impulse to gamble, even when they know their gambling is hurting themselves or their loved ones." So I know that grandfather can't control his behavior, but it still makes it almost impossible for me to like him.

When Nell wakes up in the morning after grandfather had gambled away all their money, and finds her money gone, she thinks the other men playing cards had stolen it from her. But when telling her grandfather this his first response is asking whether there is any more money and when she says no he says:

'We must get more,' said the old man, 'we must earn it, Nell, hoard it up, scrape it together, come by it somehow. Never mind this loss. Tell nobody of it, and perhaps we may regain it. Don't ask how;--we may regain it, and a great deal more;--but tell nobody, or trouble may come of it. And so they took it out of thy room, when thou wert asleep!' he added in a compassionate tone, very different from the secret, cunning way in which he had spoken until now. 'Poor Nell, poor little Nell!'

Oh, it makes me want to slap him, old or not.

I like the wax works. Although it doesn't hold the same cheer for me as the theater people did in Nicholas Nickleby, it still can lighten the mood. Especially when I've just spent time reading about grandfather and his gambling addiction. In chapter 32 I like the way the people come...

" to stare at the entry and the figures therein displayed; and remained there with great perseverance, by the hour at a time, to hear the barrel-organ played and to read the bills; and notwithstanding that they were kind enough to recommend their friends to patronise the exhibition in the like manner, until the door-way was regularly blockaded by half the population of the town, who, when they went off duty, were relieved by the other half."

But none of the townspeople are willing to pay the sixpence to actually enter the show. So poor Mrs. Jarley and her crew spend all day from noon til night urging the bystanders to enter, but noone ever does. At least there's some comedy to it. I notice that at the end of every day Mrs. Jarley says 'Remember that this is Jarley's stupendous collection of upwards of One Hundred Figures"... 100 figures? I thought there was about 20.

Kim wrote: "In Chapter 29 Nell is" decorated with artificial flowers, and in this state and ceremony rode slowly through the town every morning, dispersing handbills from a basket, to the sound of drum and tru..."

Kim

You are right. Nell's grandfather is very unlikeable. He is manipulative, deceitful and controlling. Wait a minute! Those are the words I would use to describe Quilp. While Quilp is more in your face cruel, there is a very clear cruelty in Nell's grandfather's words and actions. To a great extent grandfather is worse than Quilp. Grandfather is flesh and blood to Nell, in theory the elder and more responsible party in their relationship, and yet he robs Nell, lies, and then calmly assumes she will make it all right by returning to work and earning more money so he can continue to skulk about and repeat his engrained habits and addiction.

I'm going to be thinking all day who is my most despised character in TOCS and believe the answer is already in my mind. If Quilp's character smacks you in the face right from the get go, grandfather's creeps up on you like a London fog.

Grandpa is YUCKY!!!! He smells bad (where are they washing their cloths? ). Long yellowed fingernails. Rotten teeth.... In my mind.

I will say that dickens gets an A from me on this one, though. He did a spot on job of writing grandpa's character. An addict. Before it is revealed to the reader grandpa exhibits classic addict behavior that exists today.

I agree with the comparison of Q& GP. There is big difference though. GP is presented as an asexual being. Incapable of keeping himself glued together. He has little control over ... Well anything.

Where Q... He is presented as a sexual man. Be he to our taste or no. He has a wife. They spend long nights together. She is afraid other women want him. Q is in control of many things. Powerful people have a huge attraction. Good or bad in looks or deeds.

Simpering occasionally lucid grandpa. Suckin the life out a anyone he can. VS. A dynamic industrious Q. He may not deliver but he believes he has charm.

Christine wrote: "Grandpa is YUCKY!!!! He smells bad (where are they washing their cloths? ). Long yellowed fingernails. Rotten teeth.... In my mind.

I will say that dickens gets an A from me on this one, though...."

Washing their clothes?? Where are they washing themselves? Or going to the bathroom for that matter. Hmm.....

Yeah Quilp wins for me too. At least him I could yell at and tell what building or cliff exactly I wanted him to jump off of, grandfather I couldn't because I'm not allowed to be mean to old people, I'd feel way to guilty. :-}

Kudos Kim. I strongly agree on all points!!

You could at least depend on quilp to bring home money ( she treats her girls to lobster etc). Vs stealing it from your hem!

And then there is dick. I am swooning.

He is so funny!!!! I am going to use his philosophy regarding destiny for the rest of my life. And Sally too. If I was there I would be friends with her.

And that kid who came to the window with beer! I love him too!

As I was reading chapter 33, the first paragraph for that matter it says:

"the historian takes the friendly reader by the hand, and springing with him into the air, and cleaving the same at a greater rate than ever Don Cleophas Leandro Perez Zambullo and his familiar travelled through that pleasant region in company, alights with him upon the pavement of Bevis Marks."

Now I'm wondering who Don Cleophas Leandro Perez Zambullo is, so I look him up and find he is a character in a novel: " The Devil on Two Sticks" by Alain-René Lesage. Don Cleophas Leandro Perez Zambullo, a Madrid gallant, accidentally frees a demon from captivity. In gratitude, the demon, who is on crutches, takes him up to a high place and makes all the roofs of Madrid transparent so he can see what is going on everywhere. Oh, this devil was on crutches because of falling from the sky after fighting with another devil.

Now what I'm wondering is, has anyone ever heard of this book? And when you were reading this paragraph did you know what Dickens was talking about or like me did you have no idea, which brings me to my real question, did Dickens readers of that time know who Don Cleophas was?

I love Dickens description of Sally Brass:

".... the lady carried upon her upper lip certain reddish demonstrations, which, if the imagination had been assisted by her attire, might have been mistaken for a beard. These were, however, in all probability, nothing more than eyelashes in a wrong place, as the eyes of Miss Brass were quite free from any such natural impertinencies. In complexion Miss Brass was sallow--rather a dirty sallow, so to speak--but this hue was agreeably relieved by the healthy glow which mantled in the extreme tip of her laughing nose."

She would have been a good wife for Quilp.

Even Quilp realizes he has married the wrong woman :-)

'There she is,' said Quilp, stopping short at the door, and wrinkling up his eyebrows as he looked towards Miss Sally; 'there is the woman I ought to have married--there is the beautiful Sarah-- there is the female who has all the charms of her sex and none of their weaknesses. Oh Sally, Sally!'

I love Dick's description of the room to rent in Chapter 34:

'I believe, sir,' said Richard Swiveller, taking his pen out of his mouth, 'that you desire to look at these apartments. They are very charming apartments, sir. They command an uninterrupted view of-- of over the way, and they are within one minute's walk of--of the corner of the street.'

Dick is fun. And now we have the little servant girl and the mysterious gentlemen sleeping in the room. Maybe we'll get away from Nell and her grandfather and all their sadness for a while.

WOW! I am going to investigate that book. This is the single reason I began reading ALL the classics. To get all the references. In movies. Business. Cultures. Life. And every book sinks me deeper into what is being referenced... It has become a picture in picture in picture ... Infinity. My brain is tingling.
Is there a yearly pickwick award?

I do think contemporaries got the reference. And I suspect that there was a flavor of the day wink to it too. Dickens was not an old fashion writer. To market his product well he would use kitschy references. Not something only granny would get. Well, in my mind. Which has a big marketing chunk.

I too think Q & Sally would be a formidable pair. I am riding high on this section. The next one will be better still. All the fun people are at the party now!

... At the risk of being crass , Nell & GP can get lost at sea for all I care. Good riddance. All this microscopic viewage of a book is very interesting. I am learning great stuff including Nell & GP are disturbing. A bloodline that came from nowhere ( ??? We know more about able garland's background then these two. And he's not even in the book. So far) And they need to end the line here. Before I became a pickwickian I just thought they were dull.

Found a devil upon two sticks. Got it on my tablet. Read the first three sentences and I like it so far. I did flip through the whole book. Great illustrations! My copy is very old. Date is roman haven't done conversion yet. It's from the Harvard library. Thanks Kim!!! This is sooooooooo fun.

HO HO HO.

Right now ACC is on hallmark channel. and HEAVEN SAVE US ALL. ... Starring ..... Kelsey grammer. Yes. Fraser.
... And it's a musical. The worst I have ever seen. I can't take my eyes off this train wreck!

In chapter 35 when the mysterious lodger invites Dick into his room this happens:

Without another word spoken on either side, the lodger took from his great trunk, a kind of temple, shining as of polished silver, and placed it carefully on the table.

Greatly interested in his proceedings, Mr Swiveller observed him closely. Into one little chamber of this temple, he dropped an egg; into another some coffee; into a third a compact piece of raw steak from a neat tin case; into a fourth, he poured some water. Then, with the aid of a phosphorus-box and some matches, he procured a light and applied it to a spirit-lamp which had a place of its own below the temple; then, he shut down the lids of all the little chambers; then he opened them; and then, by some wonderful and unseen agency, the steak was done, the egg was boiled, the coffee was accurately prepared, and his breakfast was ready.


The lodger is apparently carrying eggs and steak around in his trunk. The steak being in a neat tin case. I hope the tin case was refrigerated because he's been locked in his room for 26 hours.

Still fresher than Nell & Gramps!

Kim wrote: "As I was reading chapter 33, the first paragraph for that matter it says:

"the historian takes the friendly reader by the hand, and springing with him into the air, and cleaving the same at a gre..."

Hi Kim

I like reading the Penguin books since they often have good introductions and reasonably good annotations and references in them.

When we moved across country and downsized, most of my books went to my former students and staff members. I miss them already.

Now I'm using an ereader most of the time. A great invention but I miss a good book with detailed references. Like you, I spend much time looking up references. Interesting but time consuming.

Peter wrote: "I like reading the Penguin books since they often have good introductions and reasonably good annotations and references in them."

Penguin books are my favorites, although I wouldn't mind if they'd drop the prices a little [g]. I always read the introductions, but only after I've read the book, I like to wait and see how the person writing the introduction's opinion of the book differs from mine once I've read it. Besides, they give too much away most of the time. :-}

Peter wrote: "Kim wrote: "In Chapter 29 Nell is" decorated with artificial flowers, and in this state and ceremony rode slowly through the town every morning, dispersing handbills from a basket, to the sound of ..."

Hi Peter. I totally agree with you about Quilp and Grandpa being the same. Grandpa's actions are the most immoral because he is deceiving his own grandchild when he is the only relative Nell has. At least Quilp is honest with himself about his deceitful plans. The impression I'm getting is that Grandpa has never considered Nell's best interest since he kept her away from society, other children and a normal upbringing. I also sense that for most part, Nell is the most grown up one of the pair although her naivety has let her down on occasions.

Kate wrote: "Peter wrote: "Kim wrote: "In Chapter 29 Nell is" decorated with artificial flowers, and in this state and ceremony rode slowly through the town every morning, dispersing handbills from a basket, to..."

Hi Kate

Until this reading of TOCS I have always seen Quilp as being the ultimate villain in the novel. That is the easy way since Dickens paints Quilp as being the villain through both his words and his actions. It was not until this reading that it dawned on me how subversively controlling grandfather is.

It's strange how our minds form opinions and it takes a good nudge, or book club, to put us on another path.

Peter wrote: "Kate wrote: "Peter wrote: "Kim wrote: "In Chapter 29 Nell is" decorated with artificial flowers, and in this state and ceremony rode slowly through the town every morning, dispersing handbills from..."

Hi Peter

I'm still about half way through, but I'm still curious to find out if Grandfather is totally blind to his controlling behaviour or just very cunning. I love Oliver Twist and feel so sorry for the protagonist, but in TOCS, I feel that Nell is faring much worse. She really has nobody.

Peter wrote: "It was not until this reading that it dawned on me how subversively controlling grandfather is.

It's strange how our minds form opinions and it takes a good nudge, or book club, to put us on another path. "

So true. Whenever I read TOCS before I may have been slightly annoyed with grandfather, but Quilp was my real villain. It's only reading it this slowly and this carefully (and reading the chapters more than once because I get ahead) it's reading the chapters this way that brings out for me how badly grandfather is treating Nell. I would think that his mind is totally gone, but he seems to know who everyone is and seems to function ok, when he's not letting Nell do everything for him.

Producing a Sensation

Chapter 29

A Game Of Cards

Chapter 29

Miss Monflathers chides Nell

Chapter 31

Mrs. Jarley at the Pay-place

Chapter 32

A Colleague for Miss Brass

Chapter 33

Taken by a Single Gentleman

Chapter 34

Mr. Brass at the Keyhole

Chapter 35

What a couple of atrocious specimens we have here! Miss Maltravers - what an obnoxious hypocrite - and Miss Brass - such a wonderful description! So far chapter 33 is my favourite chapter :)

Miss Maltravers seem to be a passing character, which is a shame. I suppose it was to wring more sympathy for "poor Little Nell."

Though the mystery has been twisted up a notch at the moment. Who was the student who showed such sympathy for Nell. Is she connected with the woman who observed her when she was in the clutches of the circus duo? Or are these "types" put in to show us how vulnerable Nell is? And who is the mysterious lodger?

Jean wrote: "What a couple of atrocious specimens we have here! Miss Maltravers - what an obnoxious hypocrite - and Miss Brass - such a wonderful description! So far chapter 33 is my favourite chapter :)

Miss ..."

Well, Nell is vulnerable, and in time the word will be spelt with a capital V. As for the student and teacher, stay tuned. One can never, ever, totally escape from reminders of school.

And here is a link to The devil upon crutches in England, or night scenes in London. A satirical work. Written upon the plan of the celebrated Diable boiteux of Monsieur Le Sage. In two parts. By a gentleman of Oxford. The second edition. Volume 1 of 2, which you were looking into, Kim. I've been told that it was translated by Tobias Smollett, an author whom Dickens admired.

Peter - I've been racking my brains for a piece by Dickens which was only published in the 20th century. Is there any chance it was A Christmas Tree? It's just that you said it was a bit sentimental, even for Dickens, and that is the only book I have ever actually got rid of by him for that reason.

Jean wrote: "And here is a link to [book:The devil upon crutches in England, or night scenes in London. A satirical work. Written upon the plan of the celebrated Diable boiteux of Monsieur Le Sage. In two parts..."

Jean

The only work published in the 20C written by Charles Dickens is titled The Life of Our Lord. It is, as the title suggests, a book based on, and representing, a simplified and much shortened re-telling of some of the New Testament. Originally, it was intended only for the private reading of his family, but in the 1930's his surviving family decided to publish it.

I am not familiar with A Christmas Tree at all, but as Kim would say "I'll research it and look it up."

Jean wrote: "And here is a link to [book:The devil upon crutches in England, or night scenes in London. A satirical work. Written upon the plan of the celebrated Diable boiteux of Monsieur Le Sage. In two parts..."

Jean

Just did a quick look at the Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ link and it dates A Christmas Tree to August of 1850.

I liked A Christmas Tree. It was cute. And I liked A Christmas Carol. And any other Christmas book or story Dickens wrote. :-}

Hi - just spotted these comments - sorry, they must have "dropped off" my notifications.

Thanks for the answer Peter. I am no longer scratching my head now ;)

Kim - I'm willing to try A Christmas Tree again, if it ever comes my way. I've been known to change my mind on a reread ... That's happened with both The Pickwick Papers and The Old Curiosity Shop the second time round. Or maybe I'm just getting so that I now like everything Dickens ever wrote, just to different degrees. I think that's more than likely :D