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This is the discussion for our chosen Contemporary SF/F Novel read and discussion for this month:


Ìý Some Kind Of Fairy Tale Ìý by Graham Joyce (2012)


So, let's pack a picnic basket and go for a walk in the woods, shall we?

Dont want to say too much about the book because, you know, spoilers...However this is a book that I really enjoyed.

In some ways its quite gentle although there is some menace there beneath the surface. I find myself really drawn in and engaged with Joyce's writing in this book, its not showy, its not gimmicky, its just very graceful.

And the plot at the start anyway kept me turning pages, who is the girl at the door? Is she their daughter/ sister? What happened to her? If she is the long lost girl how will everyone reconnect with her?

I'm going to take the negative view on this one, but with a slightly schizophrenic bent. I didn't like it, but I can see that perhaps it might have merit for others. But I'm a literary troglodyte.

I found the first half incredibly boring. "Some Kind of Fairy Tale" didn't provide me with my minimum daily requirement of any of the major food groups: excitement, sense of wonder, interesting new ideas, charm or humor. I need my ray guns, swords, magic spells, spaceships, time machines or fangs. All I got was angst.

I'm just a bad person: I didn't care about Peter, Richie, Dell, Mary, Jack, Zoe & their problems. I barely cared about Tara (who seemed far too content to be disbelieved, and insufficiently desperate to convince.)

The second half was slightly more interesting. Mrs Larwood is my kind of character, because old people rule. So even though the ending seemed too predictable, I updated my rating to a 1.8 on the G33Z3R scale.

On the surface there is not a lot of guns, fighting, magic etc. In some ways its not that kind of book but there is a lot of menace beneath the surface and the reader is left to join quite a few of the dots together.

Dont want to say anything spoilery this early on in the discussions but for me there was plenty of action and excitement for me. But then I am not the type of person who is looking for densely plotted narratives.

The book is about how a range of characters respond to a possible fairy abduction and how they reconnect with their loved one who returns. For me it was compelling and engaging.

It is very English and I was not too clear when I nominated it what non-brits would make of it.

Writer and Critic reviewed it in their podcast here

I've just finished this. I started it well in advance of the date because I'm normally a really slow reader, but actually this is such an easy read that I had no problem getting through it.

Like you, G33z3r, I found some of it boring (though not as boring as you did, I think). This is not a magical story, it's a largely mundane story (in both senses of 'mundane' - written in a prosaic way, and limited to our everyday world) about the effect of an experience, which may or may not be magical, on the person to whom it happens and, even more, on the people around them. The tension in the story comes from our not knowing whether Tara, the abductee, really had the experience she claims to have had, or whether it is (to use the technical term) a confabulation. I think that particular tension is quite well handled, and it was that that kept me reading. I can't say I cared about what happened to the characters, but I did want to know whether Tara's experience was real.

In the end, though, I felt dissatisfied. The reason for this is as follows (and here I'm going to have to go into spoilers - I suggest no-one reads this until after they've finished the book, because I'm going to talk about something that happens on the very last page). (view spoiler)[ As far as I can see, we are not left in any real doubt at the end that Tara's experience was real: the man talking to Zoe about cutting cherry blossom seems to remove any final doubt on the matter, since he seems pretty clearly to be a real man. However, in that case, the place Tara went to must also be real, and if so, I have to say that I don't think the place really works. For example, consider all those wonderful maps they have, that tell them when a crossing can be made from their world to ours. Who made them? The people in that place laze about and have sex, and don't do much else. It's inconceivable that people like that made the maps, so where did they come from? Unless there's something here that I've missed, this looks to me like skimped and even implausible worldbuilding on Joyce's part.

It is possible that I missed something. At the start and end of the book, Joyce tells us that there is some mystery as to who is telling the story, and that this makes a difference. While I accept that different people will see the same events or tell the same story in different ways, I don't understand the specific relevance of Joyce's remarks to this novel. I also don't know whether I'm meant to understand this, and I also don't know whether this failure to understand is my fault or Joyce's. Hence my dissatisfaction: this novel leaves too many unanswered questions.
... (hide spoiler)]

In the end, I think this is a moderately entertaining read, but if you want a book that has a genuine magical or fantastic feel, this probably isn't it.

I love me some magical realism, which is where I'd situate this story on my personal genre scale. You've got your everyday, ho-hum world that has some very magicky, non-ho-humness hiding just around the corner. Delightful. (Ten years or so ago I'd have called this "urban fantasy," but I can't use that label any more without picturing buxom half-human fairy girls holding guns. Just me?)

I read Fairy Tale over a month ago because I hadn't quite figured out how the discussion schedule worked here. So some details are fuzzing. I do recall being warm toward the tale, but not hot. It got a 3 from me. The meat of the story is Tara and her identity. Is it really her? Is she a changeling? But I didn't find this mystery particularly mysterious. I'd made up my mind about her identity early on and nothing convinced me to change my mind. I did enjoy the description of the visited world and it's inhabitants. They were intriguing and I could have gone for more of that.

Chris wrote: " This is not a magical story, it's a largely mundane story (in both senses of 'mundane' ..."

Yes, I think "mundane" pretty much sums up this book's failure to entertain me.

(view spoiler)[ I found its version of fairyland incredibly disappointing, to the level of boredom. As described by Tara, it's very much like Dr. Underwood says, a hippie commune from the 60's. As Chris says, they just laze about fornicating, occasionally interrupted by group sex with the lake. (Oh, and once in a blue moon they stage a fight to the death where no one actually dies; and even that fight is very ordinary.) It's about as un-enchanted and incarnation as I've read. Bland faeries almost seems a contradiction.

There are many splendid versions of the fae court in fantasy; Mr. Joyce seems to have distilled it all down to free love. (hide spoiler)]

Chris wrote: "I think this is a moderately entertaining read, but if you want a book that has a genuine magical or fantastic feel, this probably isn't it."

Yup, for me it wasn't.

One odd thing about the book is the persistent uncertainty about its genre. If Tara's experience is real, it's fantasy. If not, it's mainstream. I don't think I've ever encountered that in a book before.

Initially I thought 4 stars in this book because there was something about it that kept me wanting to pick it back up and read it. I usually love the magical and this was very mundane. It was an interesting side to a story. I changed it down to a 3 star because though the story itself kept me interested, I didn't care about the characters at all. (view spoiler)[ also the unanswered questions, from the writing I'm not sure if they were left on purpose or just overlooked. I assume on purpose, but there was room for doubt. I think I also didn't quite get the last encounter with Vivian. I get he questions what just happened and then wanting to find out about the patient she mentions. I just didn't quite get the whole encounter when he was under. (hide spoiler)]
Since I feel the topic of the book makes it a more character driven book, I should care what happened to them. Yet, somehow I was still interested in reading through even though I didn't.
Don't know if I'm making any sense or just contradicting myself here, but there ya go.

Yeah, I think this book was trying to be psychological and build tension through this great unknown that was Tara's identity. But the tension just wasn't there for me. I see what the author was going for and totally appreciate the attempt, but (for me) it fell a bit shy of the mark. I read the entire story at face value: Tara was abducted by the Fae while her family, being rooted in the mundane world, couldn't believe her. This made for a pleasant enough read, but didn't rock my world or anything.

Have you ever read The Stolen Child by Donohue? Now there's a twisted little changeling story that sticks with you. I was actually hoping that Some Sort of Fairy Tale would be comparable, but no.

Chris wrote: "One odd thing about the book is the persistent uncertainty about its genre. If Tara's experience is real, it's fantasy. If not, it's mainstream. I don't think I've ever encountered that in a book before."

I've run into this occasionally, most usually in a story narrated by a character whose credibility is ambiguous at best. (There's also the "mysterious stranger" version.)

One example that is firmly in the Fantasy genre is 2011's Hugo and Nebula Award winning Among Others. It's told entirely from the PoV of Mori, a teenager who (at least according to her) sees and speaks with fairies, and later in the book sees a ghost. Occasionally the fairies ask her to help them perform magic (apparently they need mortal assistance to work magic outside their own realm.) And occasionally Mori asks the fairies to help her do some magic she wants. But the results of the magic is always very ordinary in appearance. For example, at the very start of Among Others, Mori says the fairies asked her to destroy a factory that was polluting their favorite woods by dropping a magic flower in a nearby pond. She does, and nothing happens. But the next day, the company that owns the factory decides to close it down. The faerie magic, or coincidence?

In that case, though, Mori is a pretty convincing narrator, and the novel is peppered with SF/F references, and no one would ever consider it mainstream. (I'd already thought of it in connection with Some Kind of Fairy Tale, because Among Others is another fantasy story where very little actually happens; but in that case, I loved it for the charm and humor of its narration.)

For an example of an ambiguous mainstream (litcrap) story that no one ever thinks of as Fantasy, see The Turn of the Screw (ghosts or no ghosts?)

Here's another thing about Some Kind Of Fairy Tale that made me feel dissatisfied: (view spoiler)[throughout the book there are references to changelings - for instance, in the 1895 report about an Irish family burning someone they thought was a changeling, and later on, some lines of verse by Dunsany. These references led me to expect that when Tara vanished again, as it seemed likely she would, this time a changeling would be left in her place; but that didn't happen, so why are the references there? (hide spoiler)]

I read this a couple of weeks ago. In the beginning of the book, I thought okay is she telling the truth or is she just nuts? I liked the book overall. It was a fast read, in fact I read it in one night at work. The only thing I have for a critique is I wish he had made the ending more ambiguous.

Chris wrote: "Here's another thing about Some Kind Of Fairy Tale that made me feel dissatisfied: (view spoiler)[throughout the book there are references to changelings � (hide spoiler)]"

SPOILERS ahead.

(view spoiler)[

The theme of changelings is also addressed within the sub-plot of Mrs. Larwood's ginger cat. You'll recall Jack mistakenly killed the cat with his new airgun and initially tried to just cover up that fact. But later, Jack decides to find a replacement ginger cat, as a mixture of kindness to Mrs. Larwood (so she'll stop looking for her lost cat) and guilt (so he doesn't have to confess that he killed her cat.)

But when Jack presents the replacement ginger to Mrs. Larwood (Chapter 38), she spots the difference immediately.

"It’s very sweet of you. You must have gone to a lot of trouble to find one that looks quite similar. ... I’d be a very foolish old woman if I didn’t know my own cat.�

"The collar, though, did belong to my cat. Which means that my cat is dead somewhere, and it also means that you know that but didn’t want to tell me."

"You didn’t want me to know that my cat was dead. You were trying to protect me. Your instincts were good. But it would have been better if you’d told me, then I would have been able to put it behind me."

Now, if you're inclined to that sort of thing, you could imagine the fairies doing much the same thing as Jack. When Hiero learns Tara's age, he remarks that bringing her across was a mistake. One might imagine a different fairy, motivated by a similar mix of guilt and kindness, producing a changeling for Tara's relatives, whereas Dell, Mary, Peter & Richie would really have preferred closure.

(hide spoiler)]

G33z3r, yes, I spotted the parallel. It didn't improve my impression of the book.

This is a book that is based on a really promising idea. Personally I think the idea was largely wasted.

I do think to an extent it comes down to taste. Some readers would have preferred more to be made out of the dramatic tension of is she their daughter/ where did she go?, others may have liked more overt action, others might have liked more to have been made of the second disappearance (not Taras), or there to have been more dramatic tension/ resolution.

I personally liked the balance about where it was. I did enjoy Silent Land more but that book would have been impossible to discuss without spoilers upon spoilers.

What did people think of Joyce's depiction of Fairyland? I thought this was handled differently than I have seen in other books and it felt credible, real and strange. Not a place i would want to go to though.

This book and discussion highlights to me the breadth of what exists within the SF/fantasy genre and how very few readers will enjoy this full range.

Take literary fiction - Books must avoid or minimise all genre tropes and probably not neatly fit into any genre (romance, sf, crime fiction etc), it must be well written and written in a "literary way" as opposed to writing that focusses on getting readers excited/scared/amazed/ turning pages. In addition whilst there can be some action the action tends to be in the background and minimised. In addition to this it requires work generally to be self contained within itself and unlikely to lead to a sequel. Key characters MUST undertake a sort of growth or change throughout the book. It need not be upbeat and probably cannot be 100% upbeat.

Now SF/ fantasy can be action oriented, can be "quiet" like some kind of fairy tale, it can be epic in scope, taking many books to fulfill the story archs, it can be entirely plot driven or character driven. It can blend and merge elements from other genres such as crime as well.

Writing can be literary, mainstream, experimental...anything. It can be mega upbeat or downbeat.

What all this means is just because someone likes fantasy does not mean they will like many types of books that fall within the genre.

I get bored reading long winded action sequences and sometimes just skip till their resolution, other people do the opposite.

For me this book is an interesting exploration of fairy land and of being changed and not fitting in anywhere.

Although I only gave this 4 stars I keep thinking of upgrading it to 5 as it has stuck long with me and I can see myself rereading it.

it can be literary in terms of writing or it can be more experimental, and many other styles and types.

Just finished reading this one over the weekend. I don't have anything to add to the discussion that hasn't already been said.

The book was a quick read. I didn't dislike the book, but I wasn't that impressed. I didn't find Tara to be a likable character and I didn't really identify with any of the other characters, so I was a bit indifferent to how the story played out. I think Jack's little side story was the most entertaining bit of the book.

The fantasy world was lacking. I guess I need more adventure in my stories and less lake sex.

I just finished reading this book, about ten years late �
I have so many questions, I wonder if anyone would still be interested in discussing the book?
I really enjoyed the book, the pacing and atmosphere mainly, I was gripped until the end and it has stayed vividly in my head for days. There’s a few points I’m not sure about and I would love to discuss with other people who have read it, I unfortunately do not have many readers around me.. I’ve put down points below as they are all very spoilery!
(view spoiler)[ I really wasn’t sure when at the end, Hiero goes to Peter’s house and leaves in a white van. It made me wonder if maybe the white horse of Tara’s story could really have been a creepy white abduction van after all.. However, given other details I decided to believe her story was real. I wonder what other people might have thought of that?

I was confused by Hiero’s behaviour towards Tara. On the one hand he seems romantically devoted, on the other hand at the end, he is eyeing up Zoe to also abduct her? Are we supposed to infer that after Tara chose to go back, he got bored with her and moved on to another girl? I don’t really understand the point of that ending to be honest

I’m not sure what significance her abortion had on the story, is it the “trauma� she experienced that the psychiatrist keeps talking about? Is it the reason she is repulsed by all the sex the fairies are having? Or does it maybe not even have a deeper meaning?

Why did she actively want to go back to Richie even though she was desperate to leave him and that he was clearly abusive towards her in their relationship (Tara mentions she wants to break up due to some of his behaviours, Peter’s wife also says something similar, there’s all the references to the Irish historical case, and finally there’s the way he creeps out Zoe with how forceful he is in teaching her the guitar) I would have understood her wanting to return to her family, but it’s clear she wanted to turn to Richie and that is confusing to me.

And finally, what happened to the psychiatrist while he got “reverse hypnotised�? Did Hiero really appear in the room? Tara did a time reversal thing with a berry as she was taught, so is she replaying a memory? Why would she do that in that instance? (hide spoiler)]