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Response to Kressel on character observations:

(view spoiler)[Interesting observation and one I'll think about as I read, but I think you are on to something here.

When in doubt, use the spoiler tags. :-) (hide spoiler)]

Kressel wrote: (view spoiler)["Of course there are differences, but I see Marie-Laure as Liesel and Werner as Rudy. I also wonder if the author, who is American, chose the name Marie-Laure as a nod to [author:Laura Ingalls Wilde..." (hide spoiler)].

Teri wrote: "Hi Vincent - I have the Kindle version too. If you go to the "Go To" option when you have the book open, it should show you the chapter names and numbers and parts. I have a paperwhite. If you go t..."

yes - thanks so much

Vince

Thanks Teri for explaining the contents for people reading on kindle apps :). I just happened to have this book and was to start it soon, but since we are discussing it here, I will try to start sooner! Hopefully I'll join in for some of the discussion.

You're quite welcome, Betty! Excellent. I look forward to your contributions.

This is a comment on book tone rather than specific content, so I don't think it is a spoiler.

For the first third+ of the book I liked the writing and characters but I found the constant shifting from the France story to the Germany story with each chapter (most of which are only 5-7 pages) really off-putting. The stories start pretty slowly as we get to know our characters and I found the chapters shifting just as I was starting to get invested in a scene.

Now that I am over half-way I know these folks better and am able to adjust to the changes in perspective, and it's become a real page-turner even though there isn't a whole lot of "action", which is quite a feat by the author.

Douglas you are fine with your comment but since you are moving ahead be mighty careful about putting anything else on the thread without the spoiler html and the chapter and page number in bold.

Everybody who has read this book indicates it is a real page turner.

Response to Douglas, on book structure and a general discussion of Parts Zero through Three/Chapter 50.

(view spoiler)[I'm putting this in a spoiler because the book structure does actually intertwine with the story, I think. At first, we get quick glimpses of two separate stories, Marie-Laure and Werner. Their lives begin very differently. What kind of lives do they each live when we first meet them? What are their economic statuses?

We start the story at ground Zero, knowing nothing of Marie-Laure and Werner. The story starts in 1944. You mentioned that the constant shifting was off-putting, was that like the action in the story?

We go back in time to get some background on the two characters. As we meet each one, the chapters grow a bit in length. We get a bigger picture of each one. Then we come to Part Two. Back to the future. It is a short and abrupt part of the story. It begins as quickly as it ends. What is happening during this part? Does the abruptness of book structure mimic the action of the story?

Now we're back to Part Three, back in 1940, learning more about our characters. What has happened to their lives? What becomes of them, of their economic status?

And what of the theme of light, of spirals, of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea?

All of these themes I mention above will carry in to our subsequent weeks discussions.

Thoughts? Be sure that you stick to this week's read as you respond. (Martin! ;-) We will start with Part Three, Chapter 51 on Monday. (hide spoiler)]

Douglas wrote: "This is a comment on book tone rather than specific content, so I don't think it is a spoiler.

For the first third+ of the book I liked the writing and characters but I found the constant shifting..."

(view spoiler)[ I know what you mean, Douglas. I didn't find the jumping from France to Germany all that frustrating but going back and forth in time was annoying. I don't mind when a story is told in flashback, but going constantly back and forth gets a little hard to keep track of. If there was a point to it, I guess I missed it.

I've also read several reviews where people were put off by the shortness of the chapters that you mentioned. That didn't bother me. In fact, it kind of gave a conversational tone. They were about the length of a spoken exchange in talking and had that same give and take feel. (hide spoiler)]

Response to Pamela on book structure

(view spoiler)[Why do you think that the author went back and forth between 1940 and 1944? Is the plot a single, large piece or several threads that move together?

I think that we are getting snippets from both 1940 to 1944 for a reason. We're piecing together a puzzle that will be whole when we are finished.

See my note in message 59. (hide spoiler)]

Pamela wrote: "Douglas wrote: "This is a comment on book tone rather than specific content, so I don't think it is a spoiler.

For the first third+ of the book I liked the writing and characters but I found the c..."

Hello everyone. We are on to week two of our reading of All the Light We Cannot See. What do you think so far? I'll be posting summaries/questions a little later.

Week Two - October 12th - October 18th

Part Three: June 1940: Chapters 51-61

Part Four: 8 August 1944: Chapters 62-67

Part Five: January 1941: Chapters 68-80

Part Five: January 1941: Chapters 81-95

(view spoiler)[Oh my goodness! I am just now on Part 3 Chapter 38, so a bit behind most people.

I had this book ready to read in my kindle app, but I was hesitating since I wasn't ready to read another book about WWII, and I didn't feel prepared to take on the emotional strength that I knew I would need for a book such as this. However, when I noticed that it was the BOTM for this group, I knew I needed to read it.

I am blown away by Anthony Doerr's writing style! I simply cannot put this book down. I did struggle some reading the chapters which described the bombings. That caused much anxiety. But I pushed through it because I am so invested in reading the story of Werner and Marie-Laure.

As many other books have done, this book reminds me how blessed I am to live the life that I do. It is so scary to think that you can turn on your radio to find the broadcasts no longer exist, or to answer your door and it is a soldier, and you are afraid for your life.

I really enjoy that this book is written through the eyes of the children, and I also enjoy the shifting of time back and forth, as we learn more and more about their lives. I loved the innocence that the children had before all the heartbreak started! Marie-Laure learning so much from her braille books and her fathers friends at the museum. And Werner's aspirations to be a scientist or engineer.

I do have a question about their parents. There was a brief vague mention of Marie-Laure's mother, and how she had little memory of her. Nothing else was said though about where she was or what happened to her. And there was talk of Werner's father who died in the mines. I don't recall any mention of Werner's mother. Am I correct on all that, or did I miss something along the way? (hide spoiler)]

I'll be pondering those questions you posed Teri and respond in a few days. It's nice to read this with a group :)

Betty, you are never behind with our discussions. We keep things rolling all the time. I'm glad that you are reading with us.

Response to Betty

(view spoiler)[Like you, I find the book hard to put down, but am trying to stick to the weekly readings. I'm glad this is a month read, so that we don't draw it out. I don't think I can put it down for long.

I agree, it would be a much different book if written from the eyes of adult characters. You really become invested in both Marie-Laure and Werner.

You are right about the parents. I don't believe that Werner's mother is mentioned and I only remember the one brief mention of Marie-Laure's mother. I'm trying to decide if Doerr had a reason for not including the mothers. I'll have to ponder that one. (hide spoiler)]

I just finished the book. No spoilers, but if you're finding the jumps back and forward in chronology confusing, I think it will become clearer on a second read.

Pamela wrote: "Question for the Group

[spoilers removed]"
I didn't have any trouble with it. I think back to my own grandparents who were raising my parents during WWII. One grandfather would have been more typical of fathers in that timeframe, and the other grandfather, I could easily see going to the extremes that Marie's father go to in order to ensure the safety and happiness of his daughter.

A Youtube search on Anthony Doerr will get you some awesome interviews, but you have to finish the book first.

Thanks for the feed back for Pamela, Janet. Could you put your comments in a spoiler tag, please. ;-)

Thanks for the note on YouTube interviews, Kressel. I'm adding a link to a search on YouTube for Anthony Doerr in a spoiler tag below. As Kressel mentioned, you may want to finish the book before watching these interviews.

(view spoiler)[
Anthony Doerr interviews on YouTube
(hide spoiler)]

Bentley wrote: "Some historical background on the burning of Saint- Malo:

The Burning of Saint Malo

PHILIP BECK
In August 1944 the historic walled city of Saint Malo, the brightest jewel of the Emerald Coast of ..."

Thanks for the background Bentley - I didn't know that

To get the spoilers right and to keep from letting folks not get more info that they are up to I am writing having finished the first section - up to page 152, per Kindle, the beginning of The Sum of Angles

(view spoiler)[I am finding this a very interesting book and with an easy style - now that I know how to find page numbers I will be more detailed going forward.

I think that Pamela is not correct to accept that a father would focus so much on his cherished child who is so handicapped. She seems to be his raison d'être.

And it is always good to hear from Martin and he is fellow who sees a lot and well but the book, so far for me, yields a flavor of how life was there and how people reacted.

The French in the book are experiencing what the Syrians are experiencing today - without power pretty much - swept - Daniel just keeps modifying his next goal so far.

A personal observation is that I do believe that the shared suffering and shared uncertain fates is part of the reason that many socialized programs - such as universal health insurance - succeeded so easily in western Europe.

With Werner so far we see how the Nazi youth program was able to give him a purpose and camaraderie so far. I guess it was for Germans of all ages as they were coming off such a bad defeat.

A French friend of mine once told me the French losses had been so severe and difficult in the first world war that they really surrendered so readily and this is somewhat supported by a quote from the father on page 59 "He says everyone remembers the last war, and no one is mad enough to go through that again."

I find the book a good choice for easier reading but still there is much to ponder on in my view. I will try to determine how the author did his research at some point to know more precisely how accurate it is. (hide spoiler)]

Hi Vincent! Glad you are following up with us.

Response to Vincent on reading so far

(view spoiler)[You're mentioning some things I had not thought of.

I had not made that connection to today's Syria (I don't keep up with it), but I see what you mean with Daniel modifying his next goal.

Keep your thoughts on Werner/Nazi youth program in mind as you read this week's section (through the end of Part 5/Chapter 95: Relapse) and then let's talk about him again. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[
I had not thought of Syria either...like you Teri, I haven't been keeping up with the struggle there. I feel as if there are so many struggles all over the world, and I find it all confusing and difficult to stay current on.

I find the Nazi youth program quite disturbing. They really were brilliant when it came to brain washing people. I knew the youth program existed, however I had never read so much detail about it before. It makes it more difficult to read Werners story in this part of the book. Plus it breaks my heart, knowing of his youthful innocence and the dreams he and his sister had shared. But I will push on, since I can't put this book down!

I really knew nothing about the burning of St Malo, or of the existence of Fort National, so I found it quite enlightening to look these places up to understand what actually happened. (hide spoiler)]

Response to Betty

(view spoiler)[It really is an intriguing book that's hard to put down but very sad too. There is so much meat to it, with many themes and motifs. I think we'll have more discussion as we get closer to the end of the book. I really am rooting for Werner. (hide spoiler)]

Vincent wrote: "To get the spoilers right and to keep from letting folks not get more info that they are up to I am writing having finished the first section - up to page 152, per Kindle, the beginning of The Sum ..."

(view spoiler)[Thanks for the kind words, Vincent. Always good to see your posts.

Excellent posts on Syria and France. It brings to mind that in any war, it's women and children who suffer the most, followed closely by old men.

Doerr has written a book set in war that reflects that reality.

(hide spoiler)]

Another fa

Martin wrote: "Vincent wrote: "To get the spoilers right and to keep from letting folks not get more info that they are up to I am writing having finished the first section - up to page 152, per Kindle, the begin..."

Vincent wrote: "A personal observation is that I do believe that the shared suffering and shared uncertain fates is part of the reason that many socialized programs - such as universal health insurance - succeeded so easily in western Europe."

Fascinating POV! You may just be right!

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Vincent, I definitely think you're right about the social programs developed by most of Europe after the war. Having gone through so much upheaval through both WW1 and WW2, I think they made a conscious choice to devote their tax money to taking care of their citizens and it certainly has paid off in increased prosperity and peace for most of the continent.

Teri, I liked what you said about rooting for Werner. (view spoiler)[Of the main protagonists, I liked him the best. Even though my favorite characters overall were Etienne and Frederick. I really loved the secondary characters. (hide spoiler)]

Response to Bentley:

(view spoiler)[Actually, I considered Rudy and Werner to be more similar, except that Rudy actively avoided joining the Nazi Youth, if I remember correctly. (hide spoiler)]

I saw a lady reading this book on the subway this morning! I would have said something to her, but the rush hour crowd didn't allow me to.

Hi Pamela ~

You might consider placing your post in a spoiler tag.

Response to you about characters through Part 5

(view spoiler)[I really liked both Etienne and Frederick as well and Mdme. Manec. I'm planning on starting to dig into next weeks read tonight, and am anxious to see what happens with Etienne, et. al. after Mdme. Manec's passing. (hide spoiler)]

Kressel, I'm always snooping to see what people are reading when I travel. I can be pretty bold about asking their opinions of certain books. That is one of the downsides to e-readers, you can't see what someone is reading anymore. I suppose that has it's ups and downs, a person might be more apt to read something smarmy/controversial if they know no one can tell what they're reading.

Ba ha ha! I looked over someone's shoulder at her Kindle on that same day. She was reading some mystery novel, not my cup of tea. But when it came to her stop, which was the same as mine, she was so hooked on the book, she was slow about getting out. Some guy behind us got pretty annoyed.

Kressel, I can't sneak a peak at what people are reading anymore. Since I got my cataracts removed they have to either be way far away so I can see long distance or I have to make too big a deal out of putting on my reading glasses to look. :) So now I just have to come flat out and ask "What's that you're reading?"

Hello! I'm finally joining in. I'm still at the very beginning of the book but am hopeful to catch up with this week's reading before Monday.

I do not mind the structure of the book because I'm used to watching movies/reading books that go back and forth in time. The good thing is the author clearly tells you when he is going either way (at least that's the impression I got so far). I think I once read a book where I couldn't guess who or when is speaking at the moment. So this is ok. Also, if you manage to go through The Time Traveler's Wife without loosing it, you're good. :)

Comment for Teri, Kressel and Pamela:

I also like take a look at what people are reading in public transport and I'm dying of curiosity when I can't see the name of the book. I still try to be as covert as possible about finding out that tid-bit of information. :)

by Audrey Niffenegger

First is just a comment on the structure of the book - it is very interesting - it works and is good for reading on the subway, for example, or other places with time fragments as each chapter is short and presents well I think.

And for those wanting to avoid spoilers I note that I have read up to Part Six - 8 Aug 44 and that Kindle tells me this is page 301.

(view spoiler)[As I have now progressed through the story so far what I notice are the two hero - Frederick and Madame Manec.

Werner unable to do more for his friend - and being aware of the inability, I think, he was unwilling.

Marie-Laure is ten years old - yes? - she is doing what she can - she seems to have (what choice) accepted her blindness. Madame Manec helped make her life/world fuller and better.

The portraits of German indoctrination - including for example Frederick's mother's response of what we saw - is revealing. The illustrations of German occupation is interesting too but I am curious as to how much real, even small, resistance existed - were there real Madame Manecs.

Frederick's end is so disheartening. (hide spoiler)]

Vincent wrote: "First is just a comment on the structure of the book - it is very interesting - it works and is good for reading on the subway, for example, or other places with time fragments as each chapter is s..."

Hi Janet ~

Your responses are not coming through. Are you trying to use the spoiler tag?

~ Teri

Janet wrote: "Vincent wrote: "First is just a comment on the structure of the book - it is very interesting - it works and is good for reading on the subway, for example, or other places with time fragments as e..."

Responses to the book structure (Samanta and Vincent) and Vincent's comments for week 2 reading through the end of Part 5:

(view spoiler)[I think that the book structure is important to the telling of the story. It's like we are seeing snippets of a large puzzle that is being filled in as we read. We are only seeing parts here and there.

With this weeks reading:

Question: We start to see the chapters intertwine. The first portion of the book Marie-Laure's and Werner's chapters are distinct and separate. The author is now adding letters of the other character at the end of some chapters. Why do you think the author does this? What could this be telling us about direction of the characters?

I had not thought about Frederick and Mdme. Manec being heroes, but you may be on to something there. They both helped Marie-Laure and Werner through some dark times (another light thread).

I think that Marie-Laure is closer to 14-16. She was 6 in 1934 when she loses her sight, so that makes her 16 in 1944. I'll have to dig back through to see if I got that right.

Why do you think Werner was unwilling? I haven't decided myself. Was it to save himself and ultimately maybe Jutta too, was it out of fear, etc.?

(hide spoiler)]

I'll be interested to see what the group thinks about this book once finished. I read it several months ago and had high expectations it would be well written based on the overall ratings and reviews.

Response to Teri:

(view spoiler)[I believe it too. I haven't gotten far yet but I confess to reading your spoilers and I think those snippets into their childhood help us understand why they are now the people they are. (hide spoiler)]

Teri wrote: "Responses to the book structure (Samanta and Vincent) and Vincent's comments for week 2 reading through the end of Part 5:

I think that the book structure is important to the telling of the story...."

(view spoiler)[Hmmm... I hadn't thought about the reason for the additions of the letters at the ends of chapters -maybe just to remind us that the characters know they are not alone in the world.

Frederick is a hero for not throwing the water on the hung man while all the others did - helping Werner is friendship stuff - not hero stuff I think.

Werner was unwilling to try to help Frederick maybe because he knew that he was really unable to succeed - but maybe he could have - especially while he was a favorite under the protection of Dr. Hauptmann - I think that Werner now is really thinking of Jutta playing her lot out in another place. (hide spoiler)]

We'll be starting week three on Monday. Until then, here is a wrap up of this week and some further questions to ponder:

Summaries for Part Three starting Chapter 51, Four, and Five

(view spoiler)[
Part Three starting Chapter 51

Marie-Laure spends more time with Etienne. We learn that he has been doing radio broadcasts, trying to talk to his deceased brother. These are the same broadcasts that Werner had listened to at the orphanage. Etienne and Marie-Laure hide the room where he does his radio broadcasts. They find out that they have to turn in all radios to the city government. Radios are not outlawed.

We are introduced to Claude the perfumer. Daniel is sent a message to go safely to Paris but he is arrested on his way.

Werner's friend Frederick is abused at school, being picked on for being the weakest one.

Question: We start to see the chapters intertwine. The first portion of the book Marie-Laure's and Werner's chapters are distinct and separate. The author is now adding letters of the other character at the end of some chapters. Why do you think the author does this? What could this be telling us about direction of the characters?

Audio/Video from YouTube: Clair de Lune by Claude Debussy -

Part Four

It is August 8, 1944. Von Rumple is heading to St. Malo searching for the Sea of Flames diamond. St. Malo is in ruins and still being bombed. Marie-Laure is still at home alone.

Werner, Bernd, and Volkheimer try to get out of their circumstances. Volkheimer encourages Werner to work on a radio.

Von Rummel heads for 4 Rue Vaurobel. Marie-Laure hears someone enter the house.

Question: The author mentions that Von Rumple is "...a black vine has grown branches through his legs and arms." How is this like his character and drive to find the diamond?


Foucault's Pendulum at the Panthéon in Paris

Part Five

January 1941. Werner goes home during break with Frederick and learns more about him and his family. Werner learns that Frederick wears glasses, but has not at school, and that he loves birds. Back at school, the students must torment a prisoner.

Marie-Laure starts to realize that Daniel may not be coming back. Mdme. Manec takes Marie-Laure to the beach to help get her out of her depression. We are introduced to Mdme Manec's friends - the Old Ladies' Resistance. We are also introduced to Bazin who shows Marie-Laure a grotto where she can one day hide, if needed.

Von Rumpel is ill, but he continues his search for the diamond.

Etienne reluctantly helps with the resistance. Marie-Laure determines that her code name will be Whelk. Bazin goes missing.

Frederick is removed from the school. Dr. Hauptmann must report to Germany. Werner is sent to active duty.

Mdme. Manec takes ill but recovers. They receive a visit from the Paris police about Daniel. Mdme. Manec takes ill again and does not recover.

Question: Light. It is a common theme throughout the book. What are some of the literal and figurative references to light so far? How does Mdme. Manec fit into this reference?


A Whelk
(hide spoiler)]

So, regarding the parallel between the unfolding events of the story at St Malo and the Nautilus from Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne

Part 3, Chapter 47
(view spoiler)[

The author explicitly invites us to make this link in this lovely passage in Part 3 (my Kindle says p.144 but that doesn't sound right, but it is chapter 47 entitled "Les Boches"), "One week in Saint-Malo becomes two. Marie begins to feel that her life, like Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, has been interrupted halfway through. There was volume 1, when Marie-Laure and her father lived in Paris and went to work, and now there is volume 2, when Germans ride motorcycles through these strange, narrow streets and her uncle vanishes inside his own house."

(hide spoiler)]

I'm having trouble managing both the spoiler alert html and the replies simultaneously! Teri wrote that the story "has so much meat in it, with many themes and motifs" I wholeheartedly agree, and yet the writing is very compact and gives a feeling of simplicity, of air and... well, light!

(view spoiler)[Regarding the jumping around in time, there was just one moment when I found myself wondering in which time slot we were, but I do agree it can be disorienting. As a writer myself, however, I know that getting the background out is tricky. The jumping around is not just a space/time thing (I can't find who said that - ok, it was Martin in the other thread) but also a memory thing. The writer, here, is using a limited omniscience technique, where we see essentially what happens to the characters, and not much else. This makes the writing feel very personal, but it means you can't expound on other events or give background as expository, and so the jumping around in time becomes the primary means to do this, in order to track character development. (hide spoiler)]

Make sure to place what part of the book you are discussing:

like

Chapter 51

(view spoiler)[ Place text here (hide spoiler)]

I understand Geoffrey it is hard at first but it is important to follow the guidelines because the discussion is on a single thread. You seem to be getting the hang of it.

Response to Geoffrey on Part 3, Chapter 47

(view spoiler)[The analogy is really quite lovely and continues on in the story. It has been a very long time since I read/watched 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and need to pick it up again.

by Jules Verne (hide spoiler)]

Geoffrey wrote: "So, regarding the parallel between the unfolding events of the story at St Malo and the Nautilus from Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea...

Part 3, Chapter 47

You are doing great. Just add the location/subject heading like you did in the early post/Bentley mentioned.

Response to Geoffrey/Book structure

(view spoiler)[Yes, Yes!! I agree. I like Martin's comment in the Glossary thread "By breaking up linear time into pictures of a puzzle, this book offers the reader the opportunity to put together the picture presented by the author as a unified, spatial whole." Very well said!

Geoffrey wrote: "I'm having trouble managing both the spoiler alert html and the replies simultaneously! Teri wrote that the story "has so much meat in it, with many themes and motifs" I wholeheartedly agree, and y..." (hide spoiler)]

by Jules Verne

Thank you for posting the correct citation above.

It is such a great book in its own right - would be a great reread I was thinking.

Geoffrey, could you please correct your citation in message 92? It should look like this:

by Jules Verne