ŷ������

When you're ready!:-)

In FA, we have Bee’s and Fitz’s POVs in the same timeline of the same event showing contrasting perspectives. In FQ, we have Bee’s and Fitz’s POVs in parallel timelines with parallel events. Chp 11-WW action, switch to chp 12-Bee's reflections, switch back chp 13 14 15 - WW action, switch again to chp 16 - Bee's reflections. This strategic chapter order created a heightened sense of urgency and drama for me. It felt like watching a movie that cuts back and forth an action scene with a sedate scene in the same time frame. Sorry if I lost you with my ramblings. Literature is not my vocation and coherence is not my aptitude...

Chp 16, 17, 18 - will discuss the individual chapters later but thought I’ll explore this theme of parallel timeline and events across the three chapters. It may appear that BFF (acronym for Bee Fitz & Fool) given their connectivity to one another, were experiencing similar effects simultaneously while in different locations. I'm sure you'll shoot this down but bear with me!

*Chp 16 - Bee has first fever. Chp 17 - Fool also has fever.

*Chp 16 - Bee itches. Begins turning white. Chp 17 or 18 - Fool itches. Begins transformation to gold eyes and pale skin.

*Chp 17 - Fitz noticed back of Fool’s hand as strangely puckered (effect of dragons on elderlings). Chp 18 - Fitz's brow felt puckered.

*Chp 16 or 17 - Fool took dragon’s blood, begins recovery and strength. Chp 17 - Fitz’s skill strength grew exponentially. Fitz emerged from the pillar with skill loud enough to deafen Dutiful and Nettle. Even the unskilled Riddle and Kettricken felt some impact. Some theories stated that Fitz’s skill grew as a result of being in the pillar. Well, he has been in a pillar before in FF and was disoriented rather than being strengthened by it **. So, my thought is the skill strength was actually boosted through his connection with Fool, who in a parallel timeline was ingesting dragon blood laced with skill.

** (FQ pillar - Fitz felt whole. Strong sense of self and falling motion. Lucid and trying to contain the unraveling Chade. Heard no kindly woman voice. Did not want to stay in the pillar. Quick recovery upon emergence.

In contrast, FF pillar - Felt no sense of self. Floating and unmoving motion. Heard voice of love and acceptance. Wanted to stay on unfeeling and uncaring in the pillar.) Slow recovery upon emergence.

Alfred wrote: "In FA, we have Bee’s and Fitz’s POVs in the same timeline of the same event showing contrasting perspectives. In FQ, we have Bee’s and Fitz’s POVs in parallel timelines with parallel events. Chp 11..."

Your insights are just wonderful Alfred. I also wondered about the coincidence of Fool taking the blood and Fitz gaining in skill strength.

Junie wrote: "I thought Fitz grew stronger because of the time in the pillar but now that you've pointed out the connection to the blood taken by Fool and comparing the similar experiences... it is pretty credib..."

I really do think Bee is a completely unique white- having such a powerful parentage as Fitz and Fool. Fool didn't turn darker until he was well in his 30's and had fulfilled certain prophecies. The way things are going, Bee could change gender and stay white...she would embody the prophecy of the unexpected son- having a daughter who changes sex would be unexpected!! :-)

I already, one book back, that Bee seemed pretty androgynous or non-binary or something not strictly female--reminiscent of Fool never being strictly male. I had decided that the Whites were not strictly one gender or another, whatever the pronouns might have been. I would like it very much if we knew more about the Fool--inquiring minds want to know. The recurring theme of Fool never wanting to be caught naked is such a big tease.

Junie wrote: "So what are both your thoughts about Bee turning white instead of dark? "

Bee turned white contrary to expectations because (a)/ Hobb just likes to throw readers into a frenzy with the unexpected (b)/ Bee is mirroring Fool’s color change to light (c)/ Bee is officially on The Path after the fever, hence Day One begins with a whiteness that will progressively darken over time and (d)/ Bee is actually unraveling prophecies hence turning whiter, as opposed to turning darker when prophecies are fulfilled (e)/ I am just making this bulls**t up!

Oshun wrote: "..decided that the Whites were not strictly one gender or another, whatever the pronouns might have been. I would like it very much if we knew more about the Fool--inquiring minds want to know. The recurring theme of Fool never wanting to be caught naked is such a big tease"

Your thought on this resonates with mine. The Fool’s gender is a polarizing topic of much spirited discussion among Hobb-ers. To me, WHAT is the Fool’s gender is less compelling than WHY is the Fool so private about his body.

As Spock may say, logic dictates that if a person consciously behaves in a certain way, there has to be a reason. Is the Fool ashamed of deformed or marked or undeveloped genitals? Does he just feel very shy? I hope Hobb addresses the “why�� because she has teasingly kept this topic in the forefront in every single book. Leaving the “why�� unaddressed is akin to lazy writing. Like watching a fantastical movie to learn that it was just a dream all along. Hobb is a better writer than that.

On “what�� is the Fool’s gender? Is it XX, XY or some mutations thereof? Whatever the Fool’s gender is, the more relevant question to me is whether Fitz can love the Fool romantically, sexually, unequivocally.

Hobb has oft-stated that she must stay true to the character. First the character then the story follows. Fitz’s character sexually likes women only. Even when Fitz had Nighteyes, his closest soul-friend, Fitz continued to seek female copulatory comfort because well, he’s human. This is not to say that Fitz will not change his carnal habits in the future. If he does undergo such a fundamental change, I hope Hobb spins a very credible yarn to support it.

We can expound all day about Fitz and Fool transcending physical love and their Skill-coupling surpasses ordinary love-making... etc.. Until the day Fitz trades in his human vessel to become a dragon/wolf/carving (take your pick), he’s strictly a woman’s man only. Sexually regressive and horribly non-LGBT friendly as that sounds, it is true to Fitz’s character. As it presently stands.

Oshun wrote: "I already, one book back, that Bee seemed pretty androgynous or non-binary or something not strictly female--reminiscent of Fool never being strictly male. I had decided that the Whites were not strictly one gender or another,"

There's a physical component to gender. Bee's parents identify her as a girl, presumably by her genitals, and when she's captured, she has to fake the way she pees because she's physically not a boy. I doubt that she's changed her gender physically after her change, as someone would note that, including the only non-rapist Chalcedean who sees her after her change, and promises to hide the secret of her gender (physically female)

Gender identification doesn't have to match physical markers, and I agree that Bee is, atm, not identifying with either gender. That could be because she's very young by white standards and pre-sexual. It could also be because whites, whatever their physical appearance, identify equally with both genders/have a sexuality that goes beyond gender limitation. The Servants identify the Fool as male, but the Servants aren't whites, and not terribly respectful of what whites are. The Pale Woman identifies as female and identifies the Fool as male, but she's a creation of the Servants.

Until we see Bee, who is (maybe) too young to be sexual, the only "natural" white who lives in the world is the Fool. All the other whites, bred or not, seem to be confined to Clerres, except for Prilkop, who is hidden away on Aslevjal. In every society on Hobb's world, including ones where women and men are equal, individuals are identified by their physical gender, and various social expectations are placed upon them because of that physical gender. In order to fit in, the Fool must choose a gender and stick to it, even though such a thing is wrong for him as a white. That could be one reason for his need for physical privacy--he's "playing" male in the Six Duchies, and does not wish to make the identification concrete by exposing himself physically; he has a private identification that goes beyond his physical gender. Same as Amber in Liveships and FQ, where she's "playing" female.

lol IDK!!!! I'm finding it difficult to explain this, but maybe that's the point--as humans, we have no comprehension of white sexuality. lol I hope Fitz gets to find out, as the poor Fool deserves something good and sexy however it works for him.

You're totally right. The plumbing doesn't seem to have much to do with Fool's identification, but, like Bee, he seeks to keep it to himself, for his own reasons, or different ones at different times.

I'm talking in circles here, but I have thought about that possibility that physiologically Whites are born with external manifestations of one sex or another and those alter to be more androgynous or even hermaphrodite over time. Bee maybe still at the age where any change in external manifestations would not have taken place.

I fully admit that I have no idea what I am talking about (and sometimes I get confused or forget details), but I've accustomed myself to read Fool, despite calling him a "he" when I talk about him, as gender identification unclear, physical manifestations of sex/gentalia unknown.

Oshun wrote: "I've accustomed myself to read Fool, despite calling him a "he" when I talk about him, as gender identification unclear, physical manifestations of sex/gentalia unknown. "

ita. My native tongue is Turkish, and in that language there are no separate pronouns for "she," "he," or "it." Everyone, everything is "it." I think that would make it easier to speak about the Fool, as we wouldn't need to identify the character as "him" or "her" whenever we talk about him (or her!). I get that "he" is universal, but it really isn't; "he" is male, with everything that implies.

Ash09 wrote:"lol I hope Fitz gets to find out, as the poor Fool deserves something good and sexy however it works for him."

Haha that may very well be the most important takeaway of all! And man (no pun here), does the Fool deserve it.

Oshun, most days I have no idea what I am talking about either. My opinion on this keeps flip-flopping much like the Fool's gender.

On Bee, oh she's definitely female now. Lots of evidence for it. However, that may just be her pre-adolescent stage and will change later like you said. The Fool himself did not become an adult till Fitz was about 20 years old. So do the math. We speculate here a lot on how and when whites develop sexually. Why does it matter? It matters because of the implications on other characters. The gender of the servants are somewhat ambiguous too. The Chalcedean said that Dwalia (or was it Odessa) is not correct as a woman when he tried to rape her (Ash09 you're good at finding quotes, help me out here...)

Yes this is fantasy... But there should be a method to the madness. Explainable so it's credible and more powerful the story. Hobb does not just make a direct statement, this is XYZ. She takes her time to weave a story from A to B to C to D etc.... towards that statement. So why should the story about the Fool's privacy be any different?

I support those remarks! I do think the return again, and again, and again to Fool's need for privacy to definitely have some strong narrative purpose. Otherwise, it just seems like a dropped thread, without even the dignity of being a red herring.

Alfred wrote: "Ash09 wrote:"lol I hope Fitz gets to find out, as the poor Fool deserves something good and sexy however it works for him."

Haha that may very well be the most important takeaway of all! And man (..."

Fool was actually in his 30's when he became an adult. He was in his 20's when he got to Clerres, so by the time he got to Buck Keep/fitz/mountain kingdom he was definitely in his 30's.

Alfred wrote: "The Chalcedean said that Dwalia (or was it Odessa) is not correct as a woman when he tried to rape her (Ash09 you're good at finding quotes, help me out here...)"

It's Odessa. He says that "she was not even right as a woman! So ugly and not even right as a woman!"

So he admits to raping her, but something's not "right" about her. I'm not sure if that's because she's a white, or because inbreeding has deformed her: "Odessa had long dark hair that was thin, and patchy, pale white skin, and eyes the color of sour milk. One of her eyes wandered in its socket.Her bottom lip sagged open."

Dwalia, btw, isn't a white; I think the Fool says that she doesn't have a drop of white in her.

Ash09 wrote: "It's Odessa. He says that "she was not even right as a woman! So ugly and not even right as a woman!"..."

Yep! Tx! Hmm.. I wonder too if his "not even right" comment refers to upper half (face) or lower half (nether regions)...

Got it re Dwalia...they are so homogeneous I always mix them up.

Scarletine - 30's, early or late?

20 yrs Clerres + ??? years long journey + 10 years Buck...Me thinks at least late 30's if not older

Alfred wrote: "I wonder too if his "not even right" comment refers to upper half or lower half..."

I'm guessing lower, as he's already said that her face was ugly. "Not right as a woman," seems to be talking about Odessa below the waist, about the part that makes her a woman from a very diseased Chalcedean pov.

I agree here. Grammar and context mean something.

I was trying to find out if the names have any correlation to their types (servants or luriks for e.g.)

*Servants - Dwalia. Yarille. Imakiahen. Chetchua. Buffeni.
*Luriks (inbred whites/half-whites) - Odessa. Vindeliar. Pale woman.
*Unknown - Soula, Reppin, Alaria, Kendriel, Kardef
*Natural born whites - Beloved, Prilkop, Bee

Conclusion: No correlation! (Futile exercises one subjects oneself to just for the heck of it)

(Moving on with the chapters..) Short chp 16 - Bee’s journey of self-discovery in captivity continues. Poor little Bee is debilitated and soiled, but remains resilient. When asked by Dwalia to write down her dreams, Bee cunningly pled illiteracy and�� she picked her nose and stuck the finger in her mouth just to gross out her tormentor! Eeww! Truly this is the first time Bee’s ever acted like a childish child of her true young age and not like a 50-year old mature adult. This annoying child-act harkens to the Fool’s antics as a jester in Shrewd’s court. She is truly her Parent’s child (just to stay neutral).

Alfred wrote: "She is truly her Parent’s child"

Fool: She has his biology (partly), his intellect, his looks, agility, ability to play a part, and his need for privacy.

Nighteyes/Fitz: Wolf Father says that he and Fitz are "one," so Fitz and the Wolf are within her as survival guides. Bee seems mature intellectually, but can be immature, emotionally. She's a private person and remains distant from her dad, yet she resents dad for being what she wanted him to be--a distant, respectful parent figure. She also resents every moment he spends paying attention to someone other than her. That's a lot like Fitz, who always suffered from low emotional intelligence.

Molly: Where is she??? She was nurturing, pragmatic, socially savvy. She's nowhere to be seen in her child.

Ash09 wrote: "Alfred wrote: "She is truly her Parent’s child"

Fool: She has his biology (partly), his intellect, his looks, agility, ability to play a part, and his need for privacy.

Nighteyes/Fitz: Wolf Fath..."

I agree, Molly was just the useful womb- Bee is all Fitz and Fool's.

Alfred, I actually can't recall how long Fool initially spent in Clerres. I think he figured them out pretty damn quickly, and escaped after they tatooed him and tried to get to his sisters.

He was 20 yrs old on arrival at Clerres, then spent indeterminate years at Clerres, then traveled for unknown years to Buck, and finally staying in Buck for 10 years. I am thinking he's much older than 30's.

Molly would have died of a heart attack sooner if she knew that Nighteyes "fathered" Nettle and Fool "planted" the seed for Bee! We haven't even talked Burrich and his horses (his nostril flared like a stallion when Molly seduced him back in RA or AQ). However, we shouldn't feel bad for Molly either, she did have two happy marriages, a rich estate and 7 children.

Alfred wrote: "He was 20 yrs old on arrival at Clerres, then spent indeterminate years at Clerres, then traveled for unknown years to Buck, and finally staying in Buck for 10 years. I am thinking he's much older ..."

Butting in, but I really want to figure this out, too.

Fool is 20 at Clerres.

Unknown time elapses, as he spends time at Clerres/travels to Buckkeep/becomes a fixture at Shrewd's court.

He's at Buckkeep when Fitz shows up. Fitz is 6 at the beginning of the first trilogy, and 20 at the end. So we can add 14 years to the Fool's age. That makes him at least 34, assuming less than a year passed between the Fool's arrival at Clerres, and Fitz's arrival at Buckkeep. He'd then be 49 in Tawny Man.

He has to be older, though, as in FE he claims to be "substantially older" than Fitz (35) and Nighteyes (20?) combined. So, not 49, but much older than 55. He's a mystery, and I really hope that Hobb writes about his adventures at Clerres, and between Clerres and Buckkeep.

I hate this age business. Suffice it to say that both Fitz and Fool are much, much older than they look or act and their aging or not aging has nothing to do with the way in which we calculate or perceive age. The only thing that matters is that others show their age and feel it and they do not--so it is painful to watch Kettricken or Molly age, for example. I personally think it is an overrated, overused trope in fantasy fiction and I could live without it. (Whew! Got that off my chest.)

Oshun wrote: "I hate this age business. "

I totally sympathize. My problem is I'm obsessed by this series, and I wanna know everything lol. I'm also really interested in what befell the Fool at Clerres (as a child) and any adventures he had traveling to Buckkeep.

...but yeah, the age thing is a trope we can do without, I agree.

Ash09 wrote: "Oshun wrote: "I hate this age business. "

I totally sympathize. My problem is I'm obsessed by this series, and I wanna know everything lol. I'm also really interested in what befell the Fool at Cl..."

Sorry! I hope I did not sound rude--it's just the math drives me crazy. I like the magic well enough, but not when it gets complicated and makes me have to pull out a calculator to follow it.

Oshun wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "Oshun wrote: "I hate this age business.."

Haha...I'm throwing in my sorry too! Might as well do a group hug! Don't mean to be anal retentive about details. The chronology helps me to understand the character's motivations and the corresponding event that transpired at that age.

For e.g. Bee at 8 years old is an old soul, and the Fool was 20 yrs old when he arrived in Clerres. That blew my mind! I always thought he arrived as a young malleable child but in truth, he was a mature, cunning adult thinker. Also, knowing he was tortured for 10 years v.s. 1 yr (as an e.g.) amplifies the magnitude of his suffering.

Since I really, really want to reply Ash09's post about age, here's a courtesy spoiler tag to hide the comment...(view spoiler)[Fitz did arrive at Buck at 6 yrs old but he did not meet Shrewd (and Fool) until he was almost 10 years old ("shy of my tenth year"). Fitz said "The King's new fool, but recently acquired, pattered after them..". So, the Fool was in Buck about 10 years instead of 14 years. In the grand scheme of things, it does not really matter... except I am obsessive too.. haha! I agree he's substantially older in TM... these journeys of unknown lengths got to take years to happen. Maybe Hobb will do future novellas on Fool's journeys.. that would be really cool (hide spoiler)]

Outside of the analytics, is also the philosophical aspects of age - is the character pro-choice, pro-life or no choice? (Strictly talking about Skill-aging only...). Pro-choice folks like Molly, Kettricken and even Thick choose to age naturally without the aid of Skill to prolong their lives. Pro-life folks like Chade and Kettle actively use Skill to prolong their lives, sometimes at the expense of others. Finally, folks like Fool, Fitz and Whites have no choice but to live long by default. It's actually saddest for them having to outlive loved ones (Fitz-Molly, Fool-his family).

Alfred wrote: "Maybe Hobb will do future novellas on Fool's journeys.. that would be really cool "

Liveships! I would kill for a novella about the Fool's journey to Buckkeep. I can't respond to your spoiler, as I don't know how to do spoiler tags, being an IDIOT. ita though :)

Re Skill/Wit intervention as medicine, Hobb's world has medieval medicine: No antibiotics, so infections kill. No reliable analgesics, so they can only cure a bad headache with addictive and destructive herbs. No anesthesia, so surgery is impossible. I thank all the gods that Hobb chose to spare us a detailed description of Buckkeep dentistry :/ Skill is magic, but it's also the only surgery/anti-infective option these people have. For me, refusing Skill healing is like refusing heart surgery or antibiotics. We all have the right to make such a choice, but for me it's incomprehensible.

...and this has nothing whatsoever with chapter 16.

Chp 17 - Fitz and Chade emerged from the pillar - one intact and the other, hardly. Fitz’s Skill-dam burst and flooded out to drown the senses of other skill-users. With this torrential outpouring of Skill, also came the release of his reservations and insecurities. He let go. With vulnerability came emotional access for The Family, especially Nettle. The pillar spat Fitz out like a rebirth to higher calling - super-charged, powerful and confident.

Chade’s decline is inversely proportional to Fitz’s rise. Like an overfilled balloon stretched to the limits, Chade finally explodes. His influence and vitality slipping into dotage. It makes me think of Shakespeare’s As You Like It - All The World’s A Stage with Chade at the 6th age of man, entering the 7th.

*
Chp 18 - Two major milestones for Fool - dragon blood and his daughter. This calls for cartwheels and beers for everyone! The bond between Fitz and Fool keeps growing exponentially. We already know they are soulmates but skill-link is intangible, invisible. Rainbow you can’t hold. Now they also share Bee - a physical manifestation of their bond - tangible, huggable, an alloy of their combined strengths. If you can distill Skill and love, and then solidify it, you get Bee. This chapter moved me in ways I can’t explain. It felt like I was eavesdropping on a very private, very intimate, very special moment.

We learn more interesting things about servants. Also interesting was Fitz learning to be manipulative. He asked himself when taking advantage of Fool’s vulnerability, “Was this right? Was I exploiting his fears for my own ends? Making promises I could not fulfill? But what else could I do? It was for Bee". Ah. And then the ultimate manipulation - calling someone’s name, “Fool. Beloved. You have to help me now�� Are we getting a sense of role reversal?

Alfred wrote: "Have you finished Liveship? Seem to recall you were still reading it... Was goin..."

All done and loved it!

Chapter 17 is a great intro to the "intimate" moment in chapter 18.

Fitz is more powerful in this chapter, maybe as strong as Thick, but he's paid a price for it, as he lacks Thick's control. He's "spilling" into the skill current and losing himself: "You seem to have gained strength and lost control of your thoughts during the skill passage...you seem to not be entirely within yourself...As if you are still caught in the skill current."

Fitz tries and fails to rebuild his walls. Nettle tries to help, and we get a lovely moment between them, but Fitz continues to spill. He's incapable of telling the difference between speech and the skill. He is overcome by the act of eating, by everything. Nettle says that Chade is the same way: "He is caught in fascination. With everything. The weave of the blanket. The shape of his spoon."

Fitz jolts back only when Dutiful mentions the Fool. In doing this, Hobb is, yet again, underlining the very strong feelings that the Fool can arouse in Fitz, as the Fool was not the only person he heard told about in this chapter. He continued to spill away while experiencing Nettle's uncharacteristic warmth, while hearing about Bee and Shun's plight, while being told about the state of WW and its traumatized inhabitants, while hearing about Chade's terrible physical/mental state.

Also: Dutiful believes that Fitz is getting "better" as he stops spilling, but Fitz thinks that he's not better: "I was becoming duller. Slower." I wonder if this is a hint that Nettle's decision to cure Chade by forcing him to end all skill contact was a mistake.

Alfred wrote: "I am hoping Paragon and Fitz will meet. Imagine the look on their faces, and Amber's. "

It'd be hilarious, especially as Jek said earlier that Paragon has gone emo and poetic on them.

Alfred wrote: "Ash09 wrote: "Alfred wrote: "Have you finished Liveship? Seem to recall you were still reading it... Was goin..."

All done and loved it!"

Great! Sounds like a big part of journey to Clerres invol..."

Oh i want this so bad. I am sure if Fitz meets Paragon, he will know on a more visceral level, how fool loves him- and we will know from his reaction if his feelings go beyond the 'spiritual love' to physical. I mean, imagine if your best friend carved a giant replica of you- it would be pretty overwhelming! And when Paragon finds out he is actually based on a Prince. PLEASE let this come to pass!

Alfred wrote: "Yeah it's too juicy an opportunity for Hobb to pass up - putting Fitz on Paragon. I really hope it happens. Maybe in meeting Paragon, Fitz will have a taste of his own medicine!

On Fitz being as ..."
As an aside:
I recall a little spoiler tweet that Hobb put on Twitter months ago, she was having anxiety dreams about the storyline and tweeted something about Rapskal and Fool, and Per 'not knowing the way to the bridge'?? It intrigued me- especially as that didn't match anything in this book!
There is the bridge that was rebuilt in Kelsingra...I wonder whether per gets left behind, or if Rapskal joins them on their quest?

I think if Fitz can fog minds en masse, he could make the servants just walk off a cliff and drown- he wouldn't even have to bloody his knife.

Must I read the rainwild novels to understand what's happening with Rapskal?

Alfred wrote: "He's technically not an assassin anymore.... Maybe it refers to Fool? "

We've already had Fool's Fate, though. On the other hand, later on Fitz figures out that he and the Fool are now two halves of one being. If that's true, it doesn't matter which of them is the assassin, as the Fool will share Fitz's fate, and vice versa. I think.

Junie wrote: "whoops edited my earlier post with spoiler tags... you don't but it does give you a good back drop for the characters in kelsingra, how they got there etc.. and since hobbs may be writing more abou..."

Thank you! There's over a year until AF comes out, so there's plenty of time to start/finish that series.

Before you all move on, am I the only one who is incredibly frustrated about the fact that neither of Bee's daddies ever considers reading her dream journal? Fitz I kind of get--he's improved, but he's still Fitz. The Fool, though, doesn't ask to see it, either, and he knows it exists, thanks to Fitz: "And then it poured from me, the full story of her desire to have paper on which to write her dreams down, and how she had so frightened me by foretelling the death of the 'pale man...'"

The Fool should be clamoring to see the journal, as he knows what it means. He doesn't. Why not?

Hmmm...Good question. The only plausible explanation I can think of is Fool isn't his usual sharp self. He has been listening about Bee but not hearing. So he didn't put it together until now. “But perhaps you have already told me as much as I needed to know, even if I did not put the sense in your words."

With the journal, it probably hasn't struck him yet. I mean, it's pretty overwhelming finding out you are healing AND you have a daughter AND the unexpected son you hugged was said daughter! Also just re-read that passage... Fitz didn't say he has the journal with him but only that she dreams and writes them down.

And Fitz, while less melancholic and more confident, remains pretty dense, alas.

Oh, and of course, Hobbs like to create frustrations among readers...

I meant to ask this "“No, Beloved. Of course I was never with Molly.�� His fingertip tapped the table, once, twice, thrice. He smiled gently. Then he said, “I was with you.��

So he tapped his fingers 3 times. Perhaps for three occasions they were inside each other?
- when Fool went into Fitz to pull him back from Nighteyes in FE
- when Fool touched his silver fingers to Fitz's wrist and had that ehem... outerworldly sexual experience in FF
- when Fitz went into Fool's dead body in FF

Alfred wrote: "I meant to ask this "“No, Beloved. Of course I was never with Molly.�� His fingertip tapped the table, once, twice, thrice. He smiled gently. Then he said, “I was with you.��

So he tapped his finger..."

...also all the healing moments in FQ between them, when Fitz enters the Fool's body in order to fix him, and takes on his pain. Fool's been "with" Fitz, alright, and Fitz's uncertainty about what happened between them is hilarious.

Re the dream journal: Yes, Hobb loves to frustrate her readers. However, at this point, the Fool, though in pain, blind, and probably in a state of shock, is also thinking surprisingly clearly (dragon blood?). His explanation for how they should outfox people who know every path is fascinating--don't take the most/least obvious path, etc. He's thinking of it intellectually, like a puzzle, yet misses the mention of the journal, and never asks about it later. Fitz, in turn, never bothers to go back and read it more carefully, despite being told that his daughter is a prophet. If either had, they'd know that 1. Bee isn't lost 2. will emerge by the dragons 3. feels that her path must take her to Clerres via Wortletree 4. Verity is involved.

Argh, Hobb.

If they knew about 1. through 4., then next book would be very short!

Bee's dreams are not time-stamped... We don't know when they were written or if they were even in the same journal that Fitz currently has. Fitz mentioned the pale messenger and the beggar, so those two dreams are in. Maybe she writes the rest later *** But yeah! Fool should be asking for them anyway, any information would help them. He got some of Fitz's density in their exchanges. Fitz got smarter and Fool dumber. Geez.

**** Caveat: I haven't gone to look at all of Bee's dreams so speaking off cuff.

Alfred wrote: "If they knew about 1. through 4., then next book would be very short!

Bee's dreams are not time-stamped... We don't know when they were written or if they were even in the same journal that Fitz c..."

True! I also don't want her to cut the novel short; I wouldn't mind if she turned the last trilogy into a septology.

Yes, please move on.

Chapter 18: Fitz might not be the most skilled or witted of them all. He might not be the strongest fighter, or the cleverest adviser, or the best assassin, or the best husband.

He has a superpower, though, and that would be denial. The entire series should have begun with "Of all the people I could lie to, I'd always been best at lying to myself."

That's why I like Fitz. He's flawed and imperfect in many (every) ways but still lovable anyway. I used to own a really loyal mongrel that was exasperating and goofy and clumsy and dumb but that I loved to pieces. That's kind of how I see Fitz! Sometimes I think of Fitz as an underdog (still with the dog theme) because nothing he ever does come out right even though he thought he was doing his best.

Scarletine is missing here... So guess I'll start the next topic... in 100, 99, 98, 97, 96 ...

Alfred wrote: "That's why I like Fitz. He's flawed and imperfect in many (every) ways but still lovable anyway. I used to own a really loyal mongrel that was exasperating and goofy and clumsy and dumb but that I ..."

Next chapter's are 19 to 21. I've just added the thread.

...89, 88, 87..

Yay! Figured you were peeking in occasionally

Alfred wrote: "...89, 88, 87..

Yay! Figured you were peeking in occasionally"

Yes, I am peeking intermittently. A book to write and a novella out next week. But I do love your insights Alfred! :-)

Scarletine wrote: "A book to write and a novella out next week. "

Wow, you're prolific!
Tx, it's a collective group effort. We're missing some folks here, so hope they chime in sometimes. Hobb needs our positive buzz!