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Spoiler thread for Chapters 1 - 3

Anyone started this one yet?

I read this a couple of days ago. Sorry I find it hard knowing where to comment about the book as a whole, as the threads are split between chapters. This was very quick to read and I really liked it a lot. I won't comment more, as this thread is just for the first chapters :)

I wasn't sure at first if Billy Pilgrim was meant to be mentally ill and imagining much of what happened to him, or if he was sane and really unstuck in time.

I thought the "so it goes" annoying. It came across as gimmicky to me.

The writing style, the out there plot, and the humor remind me a bit of John Irving's books.

Pink wrote: "I read this a couple of days ago. Sorry I find it hard knowing where to comment about the book as a whole, as the threads are split between chapters. This was very quick to read and I really liked ..."

Sorry about that. Book as a whole thread is now up. /topic/show/...

Interesting thoughts, Kelly. Thanks. I haven't read any John Irving, so now I'm interested to make that comparison.

I found the "so it goes' comments annoying too, I tried to get into the gimmick and found it slightly less annoying by the end.

Thanks for opening a 'book as a whole' thread, I'll go post there now.

What an interesting way to start a book. Writing about trying to write the book. Yet chapter one really works well as an anti-war statement.

And the passage about reading about Dresden's destruction in the 1700s. It ends with a a paragraph in German. I looked up the translation on the Internet, but at the time the book was written, that really wasn't an option. So if you didn't speak German, you probably skipped the paragraph. Was Vonnegut trying to point out how foreign war is to people? Or something else?

I don't know German and was too lazy to google it;-). I just skipped it. Should I look it up?

Kelly wrote: "I don't know German and was too lazy to google it;-). I just skipped it. Should I look it up?"

From the dome of the Frauenkirche (=woman's church, but it's a proper name), I saw this vexatious debris sown in the beautiful civic order; in that the sexton praised the art of the master builder, who, being prepared for an unwanted case, built church and dome bomb-proof. Thereupon the good sacristan pointed me at the ruins to all sides and said alarmingly laconic:
"This was done by the enemy!"

That was one that I found. They are all similar, but not exactly the same.

Thanks for the translation, as I just skipped over it.

I visited Dresden back in 2008 for work,and you could see a lot of the smoke-stained buildings still. I got to go inside the reconstructed Frauenkirche.

Thanks for the translation, Kathy:-)!

Halfway through chapter 3. This book is not what I expected. The first chapter seemed a bit disjointed but maybe it was that way by design.
Chapter 2 and three picked up and I am enjoying it now. Love the descriptions and Billy Pilgrim.

Kathy wrote:" Yet chapter one really works well as an anti-war statement."

I agree. I felt the scene in the kitchen with Mary was very powerful. She didn't want another book that would glamorize war and Kurt promised if it was completed there wouldn't be any parts for Frank Sinatra or John Wayne. This has made me think long after reading the book. I consider how many movies have been made over the years with war as the central theme. I know I have watched many without giving it any thought. Almost all romanticize war. When I first saw the trailer for Monument Men I was thinking I would like to watch it but Kurt's words came back to me. I think I have watched enough movies depicting war.

I love the first chapter to this book. This is my second read through, though I don't remember any of the details, but I love how the unreliable narrator tells us the beginning of his story, and then the second chapter begins the "unstuck in time" portion...I am almost finished and will start posting in the whole book thread!

Just wanted to mention that I just recently finished and would recommend a book of Vonnegut's essays, Fates Worse Than Death.

He has a nice way of staying sane amid all the insanity, intellectual and otherwise....

Shelley

Slaughterhouse-Five was first read by our group in April 2014. A reminder this is a Spoiler Thread.

It's been decades since I've read the book. It was one of a very few books at our vacation cabin in th 70's, so I've read it a few times. I thought the way Vonnegut wrote it was an excellent demonstration of how war can unmoor those affected from everyday expectations and can disrupt accepted conventions. And many American soldiers wouldn't have spoken German either.

After the first three chapters the book seems interesting enough. I kind of enjoy the jumping around. At the moment it's hard to tell this is a science fiction book, because it hinges only on a couple statements about being unhinged in time and an abduction by aliens we haven't gotten to yet. The very matter of fact tone was kind of unexpected but seems to reinforce to me the idea that there's an internal narrator character.

It is very interesting. This is my first read through and it's definitely not your normal type of plot. It's also hard to put down.

The 'so it goes' doesn't feel annoying or frustrating to me but I think that's because of the way it was explained in chapter 2. I think it forces you to recognize that someone died, otherwise I would imagine it'd be too easy to read on by.

Beth wrote: "The very matter of fact tone was kind of unexpected but seems to reinforce to me the idea that there's an internal narrator character. "

I agree with this. I think partly because of the way the book itself is introduced in Chapter 1, I keep reading it in that voice, with the same sentiment and style as chapter 1. This isn't an author writing a book as much as it is Kurt Vonnegut telling a story, if that makes sense.

I am in love with the writing. I don't find 'so it goes' annoying. I'm sure people found dying annoying. So it goes.

I am seeing an grownup version of the A Wrinkle in Time. L'Engle could get away with the topic as it was a fantasy/sci-fi book. What has happens in ,etaphusics is that nkw we knkw about transects and other aspects discussed in this book. I had a copy of A Wrinkle in Time, this edition cited here, In this edition, L'Engle has gone back to discuss the new scientific info in non-scientific terms.
So I am lookingmforward into develing into this novel.

Chris wrote: "I am in love with the writing. I don't find 'so it goes' annoying. I'm sure people found dying annoying. So it goes."

Hehee....

Chris wrote: "I am in love with the writing. I don't find 'so it goes' annoying. I'm sure people found dying annoying. So it goes."

I'm also in love with the writing. It's intentionally monotonous but beautiful at the same time.

Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. is the Revisit the Shelf Book for September 2024.

I posted two different non-spoilers and two different spoiler threads. We have a wealth of discussion already on this book. I hope you enjoy reading this book and the discussion. Please tell us what you think and read what others have written.

I was trying yo figure out why the “So it goes�� comment after every death was annoying me. I think besides calling attention, the phrase trivializes the death. It may also seem to make the deaths more random. Not a fan (of its use).

Terry wrote: "I was trying yo figure out why the “So it goes�� comment after every death was annoying me. I think besides calling attention, the phrase trivializes the death. It may also seem to make the deaths m..."

Terry, I just finished Chapter 3, and I feel that, *maybe*, I am gaining some understanding of how Vonnegut wrote about death, as seen through the eyes of Billy Pilgrim. It's taken me quite a while for things to click.

Vonnegut says that around 1967, Billy believes he's been abducted by little green men from Tralfamadore (p. 24 in my edition). They teach him that, when a person dies, he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, and they can see a person alive or dead, depending on where they see him at that moment (past, present or future). I believe this is Billy's coping mechanism with all of the deaths he has had to witness; and his "So it goes" IS a trivialization of death, to convince himself they are only dead "in that moment."

Probably around that same time (p. 61), Billy goes home during the day to cry alone. While he's laying on his bed, a pair of cripples comes to his door to sell magazine subscriptions. Vonnegut says that "Billy kept on weeping as he contemplated the cripples..." Then, Billy "closed his eyes, and opened them again. He was still weeping, but he was back in Luxembourg again. He was marching with a lot of other prisoners. It was a winter wind that was bringing tears to his eyes."

This is when it dawns on me that Billy's life is so consumed with these painful flashbacks, that the Tralfamadore delusion is the only way he can cope. That's my interpretation, anyway.

And yes, Rouge, I totally agree with your conclusion also - that Billy attempts to become numb to trauma.

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Terry wrote: "I was trying yo figure out why the “So it goes�� comment after every death was annoying me. I think besides calling attention, the phrase trivializes the death. It may also seem to mak..."

What a well thought out reflection.

Lynn wrote: "What a well thought out reflection."

Thank you so much, Lynn. There is so much to think about in this story, and I really am trying to understand what Vonnegut is trying to say. It is impossible for me to just read through this novel. I want to understand Billy Pilgrim and what the war did to him (and by inference, all soldiers who have had to face the unimaginable).

Thanks, Shirley. That makes a lot of sense to me.

I'm finding this spell-binding. I like your thoughts, Shirley. So much of life is about coping, isn't it.

"So it goes" isn't bothering me. I've heard it for years from people quoting this, and it's nice to finally read the source! It seems an appropriate response to this, from earlier in this third chapter, p. 77 in my book: "Among the things Billy Pilgrim could not change were the past, the present, and the future."