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Book Buddy ! > Ragtime ~ Feb. 2017

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message 1: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 07:59PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments What's this ? A Buddy Read. All are welcome to join in the discussion.

Book: Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow Ragtime

In 1998, the Modern Library ranked Ragtime number 86 on its list of the 100 best English-language novels of the 20th century. Time magazine included the novel in its TIME 100 Best English-Language Novels from 1923 to 2005

Author: E.L. Doctorow E.L. Doctorow

When- The discussion begins on Feb. 24, 2017. You only need to start reading on that date. We will read and discuss the book for a few weeks.

SPOILER ETIQUETTE
If you are discussing a major plot element please put SPOILER and the Chapter # and the top of your post.


Book Details
The book is available in all formats
paperback is 269 pages
Published - 1975

Synopsis:
This classic novel, published in 1975, chronicles the lives of three families in early twentieth-century New York. Three tales are relayed as separate stories initially, then are interwoven gradually.

This work of historical fiction is mainly set in the New York City area from 1902 until 1912, with brief scenes towards the end describing the United States entry into World War I in 1917. A unique adaptation of the historical narrative genre with a subversive 1970s slant, the novel blends fictional and historical figures into a framework that revolves around events, characters and ideas important in American history.

Film and theatrical adaptations
The novel was adapted for a 1981 movie and a 1998 musical.


message 2: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Discussion Questions -- May contain spoilers


1. When the story opens, the narrator describes life in the early 1900s, noting that “There were no negroes. There were no immigrants.� Is this description accurate? What might this statement propose about the accuracy of historical accounts?

2. Why might the author have chosen to name the characters as he did? Why do some of the characters have general names such as Mother’s Younger Brother while others have proper names like Coalhouse Walker, Jr.? Does this affect the way we relate to them?

3. Describe the narrator of the story. Can we be certain of who it is, or does the point of view shift throughout the story? How does Doctorow’s method of narration relate to historical texts?

4. Why did the author choose the title "Ragtime" for this novel? What is ragtime music? What are its origins and how does it relate to other genres of music? What does it reveal about the society in which it was created? What literary devices does the author use to reference or re-interpret ragtime?

5. Why might the author have chosen not to use quotation marks? Does this affect the rhythm of the story?

6. Describe the setting of Ragtime. When and where does the story take place? Why might an author have chosen to write about this time period and these places and events?

7. When was Ragtime written? What was happening at the time? How might readers then have related to the story? How do we relate to it today? Is it simply a historical narrative or does it reveal things about contemporary society?

8. Why do you think that Mother’s Younger Brother chose to help Coalhouse Walker, Jr.?

9. Doctorow chooses to incorporate historical figures in a fictional context. Who does he include? Why might he have chosen to include these people? Does his portrayal of them match historical accounts?

10. The story takes place during a time of technological progress and industrialization. What are some of the innovations represented in the book? How does their presence affect the characters? Is the impact good or bad? Explain.

11. The quest for freedom and peace is a key theme of Ragtime. How does the author use Harry Houdini to illuminate the complexity of this quest?

12. While the characters represent different classes and races, they share much in common. Discuss some of these commonalities. How are the characters different?

13. What imagery does the author use in the first chapter to set the scene? What does it tell us about life in the early 1900s? What might the purpose be in revealing the murder of the architect Stanford White? Does it change our initial impression of American life during this time?

14. When Evelyn Nesbit meets The Little Girl in the Pinafore, she is tied with rope to her father’s wrist so she won’t be stolen. How does the author make connections between Evelyn, The Little Girl, and Mameh? Why is Evelyn drawn to Tateh and The Little Girl?

15. When Father returns to New Rochelle, the mirror “gave back the gaunt, bearded face of a derelict, a man who lacked a home.� What does this mean? What has changed since Father left home? How does he adapt to these changes?

16. Why might J.P. Morgan be so fascinated with Egyptology? Do his fortune and his collection of valuable objects bring him peace? Why do you think he invites Henry Ford to meet with him?

17. The notion of value is prominent in the book. What do each of the characters value? What consequences does this have for them?

18. Does Coalhouse Walker, Jr. obtain justice? What does he sacrifice in the process? How do his actions affect those around him? How does this scenario relate to the justice system and civil rights struggles in today’s society?

19. Why does Tateh reinvent himself as a baron? What does it mean for his identity? How does the style and imagery of the novel relate to the advent of cinema? How does this invention change our perception of history?

20. Many of the characters struggle for what they believe is right. Are they successful? How are these struggles tied in to the notion of identity or societal definitions of identity?

21. )The author uses his characters allegorically. What groups are represented? Do you feel the portrayals are accurate? Why or why not?

22. The author presents many representations of family and relationships. Describe some. Which are most successful? Why do you think this is?

23. Why do you think that Mother and Tateh end up together? What draws them together? How would this relationship have been viewed in the early 1900s? How would it be viewed today?

24. Why do you think that the author chose the quotation by Scott Joplin as the novel’s epigraph? What does it signify?

(Questions from Random House "Teacher's Guide.)


message 3: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 07:37PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Author Bio




� Birth—January 6, 1931
� Where—New York, New York, USA
� Education—A.B., Kenyon College; Columbia University
� Awards�3 National book Critics Circle Awards; National
Book Aware; PEN/Faulkner Award
� Currently—lives in the New York City area


Edgar Lawrence "E. L." Doctorow (January 6, 1931 � July 21, 2015) was an American novelist, editor, and professor, best known internationally for his works of historical fiction. He has been described as one of the most important American novelists of the 20th century.

He wrote twelve novels, three volumes of short fiction and a stage drama. They included the award-winning novels Ragtime (1975), Billy Bathgate (1989), and The March (2005). These, like many of his other works, placed fictional characters in recognizable historical contexts, with known historical figures, and often used different narrative styles. His stories were recognized for their originality and versatility, and Doctorow was praised for his audacity and imagination.


message 4: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:05PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Here are a few bio links for some of the people mentioned in the book. The author explains who everyone is. However, I thought it would be nice to have a photo and small bio all in one place for us to refer to while discussing the book.

I've also included book links where I could.


Theodore Roosevelt Jr. was an American statesman, author, explorer, soldier, naturalist, and reformer who served as the 26th President of the United States from 1901 to 1909.

Colonel Roosevelt
Theodore Rex
The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt
Edmund Morris

The River of Doubt: Theodore Roosevelt's Darkest Journey---Candice Millard

The Bully Pulpit: Theodore Roosevelt, William Howard Taft, and the Golden Age of Journalism--Doris Kearns Goodwin

Mornings on Horseback---David McCullough


message 5: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:07PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Stanford White (November 9, 1853 � June 25, 1906) was an American architect and partner in the architectural firm McKim, Mead & White, the frontrunner among Beaux-Arts firms. He designed a long series of houses for the rich, and numerous public, institutional, and religious buildings. His design principles embodied the "American Renaissance".

In 1906, White was murdered by millionaire Harry Kendall Thaw over White's sexual assault of actress Evelyn Nesbit. This led to a court case which was dubbed "The Trial of the Century" by contemporary reporters.[1]

Trials of the Century: A Decade-by-Decade Look at Ten of America's Most Sensational Crimes---Mark J. Phillips


message 6: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Harry Kendall Thaw (February 12, 1871 � February 22, 1947)[2][3] was the son of Pittsburgh coal and railroad baron William Thaw, Sr. Heir to a multimillion-dollar mine and railroad fortune, Thaw had a history of severe mental instability and led a profligate life. His historical legacy rests on one notorious act: on June 25, 1906, on the rooftop of Madison Square Garden, Thaw murdered renowned architect Stanford White, who had sexually assaulted Thaw's wife, model/chorus girl Evelyn Nesbit.


message 7: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Florence Evelyn Nesbit (December 25, 1884 � January 17, 1967), known professionally as Evelyn Nesbit, was a popular American chorus girl, an artists' model, and an actress.

In the early part of the 20th century, the figure and face of Evelyn Nesbit were everywhere, appearing in mass circulation newspaper and magazine advertisements, on souvenir items and calendars, making her a cultural celebrity. Her career began in her early teens in Philadelphia and continued in New York, where she posed for a cadre of respected artists of the era, James Carroll Beckwith, Frederick S. Church, and notably Charles Dana Gibson, who idealized her as a "Gibson Girl". She had the distinction of being an early "live model", in an era when fashion photography as an advertising medium was just beginning its ascendancy.

Nesbit claimed that as a stage performer, and while still a 14-year-old, she attracted the attention of the then 47-year-old architect and New York socialite Stanford White, who first gained the family's trust then sexually assaulted Evelyn while she was unconscious.[1][2] Nesbit achieved world-wide notoriety when her husband, multi-millionaire Harry Kendall Thaw, shot and murdered Stanford White on the rooftop theatre of Madison Square Garden on the evening of June 25, 1906, leading to what the press would call "The Trial of the Century".


message 8: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:07PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Emma Goldman (June 27 [O.S. June 15], 1869 � May 14, 1940) was an anarchist political activist and writer. She played a pivotal role in the development of anarchist political philosophy in North America and Europe in the first half of the 20th century.

Living My Life---Emma Goldman


message 9: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:09PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments


Harry Houdini (born Erik Weisz, later Ehrich Weiss or Harry Weiss; March 24, 1874 � October 31, 1926) was a Hungarian-American illusionist and stunt performer, noted for his sensational escape acts.

The Secret Life of Houdini: The Making of America's First Superhero---William Kalush


message 10: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:11PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments


Henry Clay Frick (December 19, 1849 � December 2, 1919) was an American industrialist, financier, union-buster, and art patron. He founded the H. C. Frick & Company coke manufacturing company, was chairman of the Carnegie Steel Company, and played a major role in the formation of the giant U.S. Steel manufacturing concern. He also financed the construction of the Pennsylvania Railroad and the Reading Company,[citation needed] and owned extensive real estate holdings in Pittsburgh and throughout the state of Pennsylvania. He later built the historic neoclassical Frick Mansion (now a landmark building in Manhattan) and at his death donated his extensive collection of old master paintings and fine furniture to create the celebrated Frick Collection and art museum.

Henry Clay Frick: An Intimate Portrait--Martha Frick Symington Sanger


message 11: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:12PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

John Pierpont "J. P." Morgan (April 17, 1837 � March 31, 1913) was an American financier and banker who dominated corporate finance and industrial consolidation in late 19th and early 20th Century United States.

The House of Morgan: An American Banking Dynasty and the Rise of Modern Finance----Ron Chernow


message 12: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:16PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Henry Ford (July 30, 1863 � April 7, 1947) was an American industrialist, the founder of the Ford Motor Company, and the sponsor of the development of the assembly line technique of mass production.

My Life And Work---Henry Ford

Henry Ford---Vincent Curcio

I Invented the Modern Age (t): The Rise of Henry Ford and the Most Important Car Ever Made---Richard Snow


message 13: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 07:42PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Booker Taliaferro Washington (April 5, 1856 � November 14, 1915) was an American educator, author, orator, and advisor to presidents of the United States. Between 1890 and 1915, Washington was the dominant leader in the African-American community.

Up from Slavery----Booker T. Washington


message 14: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:17PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Robert Edwin Peary, Sr. (May 6, 1856 � February 20, 1920) was an American explorer who claimed to have reached the geographic North Pole with his expedition on April 6, 1909. Peary's claim was widely credited for most of the 20th century, rather than the competing claim by Frederick Cook, who said he got there a year earlier. Both claims were widely debated in newspapers until 1913.

True North: Peary, Cook, and the Race to the Pole----Bruce Henderson


message 15: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:19PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments


Franz Ferdinand Carl Ludwig Joseph Maria (18 December 1863 � 28 June 1914) was an Archduke of Austria-Este, Austro-Hungarian and Royal Prince of Hungary and of Bohemia and, from 1896 until his death, heir presumptive to the Austro-Hungarian throne.[1]

His assassination in Sarajevo precipitated Austria-Hungary's declaration of war against Serbia. This caused the Central Powers (including Germany and Austria-Hungary) and Serbia's allies to declare war on each other, starting World War I

The Guns of August---Barbara W. Tuchman

The First World War---John Keegan


message 16: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:21PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Sigmund Freud (/ˈfrɔɪd/ FROYD;[2] German: [ˈziːkmʊnt ˈfʁɔʏt]; born Sigismund Schlomo Freud; 6 May 1856 � 23 September 1939) was an Austrian neurologist and the founder of psychoanalysis, a clinical method for treating psychopathology through dialogue between a patient and a psychoanalyst.

Freud: In His Time and Ours--Élisabeth Roudinesco

Freud: A Very Short Introduction--Anthony Storr


message 17: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:23PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Carl Gustav Jung (/jʊŋ/; Swiss German pronunciation: [ˈkarl ˈɡʊstaf jʊŋ]; 26 July 1875 � 6 June 1961) was a Swiss psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who founded analytical psychology.

Jung: A Very Short Introduction--Anthony Stevens

Man and His Symbols--C.G. Jung


message 18: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:24PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments


Theodore Herman Albert Dreiser (/ˈdraɪsər, -zər/;[1] August 27, 1871 � December 28, 1945) was an American novelist and journalist of the naturalist school. His novels often featured main characters who succeeded at their objectives despite a lack of a firm moral code, and literary situations that more closely resemble studies of nature than tales of choice and agency.[2] Dreiser's best known novels include Sister Carrie (1900) and An American Tragedy (1925). In 1930 he was nominated to the Nobel Prize in Literature.[3]

An American Tragedy

Sister Carrie


message 19: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 08:25PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Jacob August Riis (May 3, 1849 � May 26, 1914) was a Danish-American social reformer, "muckraking" journalist and social documentary photographer. He is known for using his photographic and journalistic talents to help the impoverished in New York City; those impoverished New Yorkers were the subject of most of his prolific writings and photography. He endorsed the implementation of "model tenements" in New York with the help of humanitarian Lawrence Veiller. Additionally, as one of the most famous proponents of the newly practicable casual photography, he is considered one of the fathers of photography due to his very early adoption of flash in photography.

How the Other Half Lives: Studies Among the Tenements of New York--Jacob A. Riis


message 20: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments


Emiliano Zapata Salazar ; 8 August 1879 � 10 April 1919) was a leading figure in the Mexican Revolution, the main leader of the peasant revolution in the state of Morelos, and the inspiration of the agrarian movement called Zapatismo.


message 21: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Charles Seymour Whitman (September 29, 1868 � March 29, 1947) served as the 41st Governor of New York from January 1, 1915 to December 31, 1918. He was also a delegate to Republican National Convention from New York in 1916.


message 22: by Alias Reader (last edited Feb 22, 2017 07:55PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments

Rhinelander Waldo (May 24, 1877 � August 13, 1927) was appointed the seventh New York City Fire Commissioner by Mayor William Jay Gaynor on January 13, 1910. He resigned on May 23, 1911, less than two months after the deadly Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire to accept an appointment as the eighth New York City Police Commissioner. On December 31, 1913, he was dismissed by the outgoing acting mayor, Ardolph Kline. Among other achievements in office, Waldo contributed to the motorization of both departments.

Triangle The Fire That Changed America by David von Drehle Triangle: The Fire That Changed America----David von Drehle


message 23: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments


Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg (Czech: Žofie Marie Josefína Albína hraběnka Chotková z Chotkova a Vojnína; German: Sophie Maria Josephine Albina Gräfin Chotek von Chotkow und Wognin; 1 March 1868 � 28 June 1914), was the morganatic wife of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne. Their assassination in Sarajevo sparked a series of events that eventually led to World War I.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

I placed a hold on the book and will try to join in later, if possible.


message 25: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Great !

The thread is always open and I never delete book discussion threads.


message 26: by madrano (new)

madrano | 22139 comments Good idea to have those bios handy. I missed a number because i couldn't research the characters because i was reading it while my son was hospitalized when he was 2 or so. There were some real people that i missed, I'm sure.


message 27: by Francesca M (last edited Mar 01, 2017 03:36AM) (new)

Francesca M | 126 comments I started the book yesterday and I am finding your notes on the characters extremely helpful Alias. I knew some of them, but not many others.

I struggled a little bit in the first chapters, because of the style and the lexicon. But I am now getting into it and so far it seems a really interesting story!


message 28: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Awesome. I am enjoying the book a lot. If there is anything you need help with let me know.


message 29: by Francesca M (new)

Francesca M | 126 comments Alias Reader wrote: "Awesome. I am enjoying the book a lot. If there is anything you need help with let me know."

Thank you Alias.

What are your thoughts on the use of generic family names (Father, Mother, etc) in the story? I am thinking E.L. Doctorow wants to introduce an undefined American family point of view in the story to underline the lifestyle of the upper middle class society in those years as a whole, avoiding focusing on single characters. Although there are personal experiences the family members are going through, this could have been the story of anyone one in their status. On the other side, the detailed description of 'the big names' private lives and experiences works as a contrast to it.

There are history 'makers' and 'copers', but we're all human beings with emotions and daily problems to address and our lives inevitably interlock. Difference is, someone will be remembered, quoted in history books, others will disappear and their names will not be worth mentioning afterwords.

That's the way I understand it so far, this is a reveling and fascinating book. I am particularly enjoy Houdini character interpretation and reflections. Got to chapter 5 now and looking forward to find out how the plot will develop!


message 30: by Alias Reader (last edited Mar 01, 2017 05:54PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Francesca M wrote: What are your thoughts on the use of generic family names (Father, Mother, etc) in the story? I am thinking E.L. Doctorow wants to introduce an undefined American family point of view in the story to underline the lifestyle of the upper middle class society in those years as a whole, avoiding focusing on single characters.

I'm glad you asked that, Francesca, as it ties into the two questions I wrote myself on the subway today while I was reading the book. I noted that I wanted to ask you-

- Who is narrating this story? Why are they given the generic names of Father, Mother, grandfather, Mother's Younger Brother, and young son? Does that indicate that it is a family member narrating or maybe multiple narrators? I am guessing it is the younger boy. What point is the author trying to make by doing this? I am enjoying the book but this is one aspect I don't care for.

- Is this somehow related to Doctorow's lack of quotation marks? Which is something I also don't care for.

I am midway in the book and I honestly have no idea. Any light you can shed on this for me would be most welcome.


message 31: by Francesca M (new)

Francesca M | 126 comments Alias, like you, I guess the story is told by the young boy (acting as an omniscient narrator). This would also explain the lack of question marks, as the story teller already knows the facts and there is no will there of directly engage the reader through questions. In a sense feels like Doctorow is saying 'this is it' make your own reflections. Not sure how to explain it, I could compare it to a silent movie...maybe.

I am still wandering in the dark myself as you can see, but it is probably because of it that I am loving the book. Doctorow writing style manages to keep the reader always interested beautifully, overlooking unimportant details and focusing on the key bits. What difference would make knowing who is recounting the story in the end? For me, none.


message 32: by Francesca M (new)

Francesca M | 126 comments I got also another question...

CHAPTER 9

Mother finds a new born baby buried in her garden and still alive! I thought this was a bit weird. Would you not notice that someone has been digging a hole in the garden? And could a baby still be alive if buried just after being born?

Have I missed something here?


message 33: by madrano (new)

madrano | 22139 comments Francesca M wrote: "In a sense feels like Doctorow is saying 'this is it' make your own reflections. Not sure how to explain it, I could compare it to a silent movie...maybe...."

I am not reading the book again but when i saw this comment, Francesca, it rang true for me. That is a good description of how i looked at the book. I felt i was seeing and hearing the images but in the way one does in a silent movie. Good catch!


message 34: by Alias Reader (last edited Mar 02, 2017 01:13PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Francesca M wrote: "I got also another question...

CHAPTER 9

Mother finds a new born baby buried in her garden and still alive! I thought this was a bit weird. Would you not notice that someone has been digging a ho..."


I would guess that the baby was just covered with dirt. Not so much buried but covered in a very shallow indent. Perhaps with just enough dirt to cover the baby. So that wouldn't make a big hole. It seems the baby was just born, so I would think it would certainly be possible that no one was looking out the window at the time the baby was placed there.

I would also note the way "The Boy" is mentioned in this chapter. For example, "From an upstairs window the little boy watched her."

It just seems an odd way to narrate the story. I am guessing for this story it would be called third person omniscient. Personally, I find it a bit distancing. Is that what the author wanted and if so why?

I do think it does matter who is narrating. Is the narrator reliable ? When the reader knows who the narrator is, then we can better understand their point of view. Is the narrator limited in what they can tell us? Why is the narrator telling us this story?

I checked online and it seems the narrator could also be Tatah's daughter or both her and the boy. The author leave it up to the reader.


message 35: by Francesca M (new)

Francesca M | 126 comments madrano wrote: "Francesca M wrote: "In a sense feels like Doctorow is saying 'this is it' make your own reflections. Not sure how to explain it, I could compare it to a silent movie...maybe...."

I am not reading ..."


Thanks Madrano! Hope you will read again a book with us soon, really enjoyed when we did the Preston buddy read :)!


message 36: by Francesca M (last edited Mar 02, 2017 02:54PM) (new)

Francesca M | 126 comments Alias Reader wrote: "Francesca M wrote: "I got also another question...

CHAPTER 9

Mother finds a new born baby buried in her garden and still alive! I thought this was a bit weird. Would you not notice that someone h..."


That’s it Alias, you're right! I thought there was a story teller shift there. But I wasn’t sure, I read this chapter too late last night, I think I missed out a few things. I just reread it now.

It also confused me the fact that Doctorow says � Mother had dug something up� and before he says that she heard something and 'kneeled down to the ground beginning to paw it'. I related it to literally excavate an hole and extract the baby out. But your version definitely makes more sense, I guess something was lost in translation here for me, too many construction site visits these days, I have been reading it like an architect :D!

I see the narrator situation is annoying you more and more. It is a bit odd in fact, but like I said, I feel like Doctorow is treating this like a silent movie twisting the narrator as it best works for him without giving it much importance. Everything happens extremely fast here, constantly jumping from one situation to another, reading is like running after all those people. And maybe is the speed of changes happening at the time that Doctorow is trying to recreate, no time for question, no time for understanding, just for living. I keep thinking of the Futuris Manifesto while reading Regtime, but if Futurists celebrated the speed and the technology against the tradition, Doctorow also highlights the dark sides of �900 and the humans struggles in a society which is note anymore what it used to be.

I would not thought the other point of view could have been of Tatha’s daughter thou...maybe by the end of the book some explanation will be given on why this story has been told. Yet possibly will be just left as that, a series of images of �900 New York social end historical context recalled by people who lived the then.


message 37: by Alias Reader (last edited Mar 02, 2017 05:59PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Francesca M wrote: Yet possibly will be just left as that, a series of images of �900 New York social end historical context recalled by people who lived the then. ."

That is probably what will be. I agree. There are a lot of different story threads going on. It's all very quick. I guess it's a snapshot of a certain time and place.

I am enjoying the book very much. The narrator thing isn't bothering me as much as I find it an odd construction.


message 38: by madrano (new)

madrano | 22139 comments Francesca M wrote: "Thanks Madrano! Hope you will read again a book with us soon, really enjoyed when we did the Preston buddy read :)!..."

Thanks for the thought, Francesca. To be honest with you, i didn't like the book and was surprised that it had been so popular at the time. Usually i like putting historic characters in novels (as long as it's not ridiculous) but this one rubbed me wrong.


message 39: by Alias Reader (last edited Mar 03, 2017 07:33PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Chapter 18

"From these principles Ford established the final proposition of the theory of industrial manufacture- not only that the parts of the finished product be interchangeable, but hat the men who build the products be themselves interchangeable parts. "

:( Just a cog in the machine. No longer human.

I would like to read a bio of Ford. I have on my TBR list
I Invented the Modern Age (t): The Rise of Henry Ford and the Most Important Car Ever Made--Richard Snow

Henry Ford and the Jews: The Mass Production Of Hate--Neil Baldwin

There is also a second book with the same title but different author.
Henry Ford and the Jews--Albert Lee

Actually, this book has added a bunch of new books to my TBR. I think I would like to read about these tycoons. Though I would note that apparently Ron Chernow doesn't know how to write a book under 900 pages. I alreasy own, but have not yet read his Alexander Hamilton.

Here are a few that I am thinking of reading.

The Tycoons: How Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Jay Gould and J.P. Morgan Invented the American Supereconomy--Charles R. Morris

Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr.--Ron Chernow

Andrew Carnegie--David Nasaw

The House of Morgan: An American Banking Dynasty and the Rise of Modern Finance--Ron Chernow

The Robber Barons--Matthew Josephson

American Colossus: The Triumph of Capitalism, 1865-1900--H.W. Brands

Thomas Alva Edison: Great American Inventor--Michael Burgan


message 40: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Chapter 19

I like the way the author described Pierpont Morgan.

"Moving about in private railroad cars or yachts he crossed all borders and was at home everywhere in the world. He was a monarch of the invisible, transnational kingdom of capital whose sovereignty was everywhere granted."


message 41: by Alias Reader (last edited Mar 03, 2017 07:15PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Chapter 19

The short story by Nathaniel Hawthorne can be read online.

The Birthmark



message 42: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Chapter 25

I may have read this before but forgot it. It's an interesting bit of trivia.

"The militia were in constant attendance, as well as plainclothesmen which had been commissioned to protect presidents and vice presidents by Theodore Roosevelt after the assassination of President McKinley."


message 43: by Francesca M (new)

Francesca M | 126 comments Alias Reader wrote: "Chapter 18

"From these principles Ford established the final proposition of the theory of industrial manufacture- not only that the parts of the finished product be interchangeable, but hat the me..."


I’m still at chapter 16 Alias, so much to study this month, my reading time has been drastically reduce :(! But I will catch up with your comments as soon as I get there...


message 44: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments No rush, Francesca ! I just wanted to get my thoughts down before I forget them. :) Please, read at your leisure.


message 45: by Klela (new)

Klela You're making me curious....I think i'll read it soon!


message 46: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments I have to say I am enjoying it a lot. I would love to discuss it with you Klela.

I just ordered 3 non fiction books from Amazon because of this book.


message 47: by Klela (new)

Klela The books that make you buy other books are the best! :)


message 48: by Shomeret (new)

Shomeret | 239 comments Klela wrote: "The books that make you buy other books are the best! :)"

Oh absolutely! I'm currently reading an anthology. I really liked one of the stories very much. So I noticed in the author's bio that he also wrote a novel. This morning it's on my Kindle. This is a great benefit of anthologies. You can discover writers.


message 49: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 27464 comments Klela wrote: "The books that make you buy other books are the best! :)"

I don't know if my credit card agrees. :(

But I guess I could have worse habits the a love of reading ! Certain nonfiction books I prefer to own so I can write in them. It helps me process the information.

The books are only slightly related to Ragtime but some of the men mentioned in the book I found intriguing and made me want to learn more about them.

American Colossus: The Triumph of Capitalism, 1865-1900---H.W. Brands


The Robber Barons---Matthew Josephson

The Tycoons: How Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Jay Gould and J.P. Morgan Invented the American Supereconomy---Charles R. Morris


message 50: by Klela (new)

Klela Alias Reader wrote: "Klela wrote: "The books that make you buy other books are the best! :)"

I don't know if my credit card agrees. :(
..."



Ahahahah you're right...there are pros and cons to be an avid reader!


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