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Just a reminder, besides only posting headlines that are about crimes (and I use the word crime broadly) please be sure to NOT post articles from satire or "fake" news sites.

Thanks and lets get some news!

It is so hard to legally get people mental health services to prevent crime. It is frustrating.

This one was a messy crime by a teen nazi

Another promising-looking legal defense goes down in flames:

Only in America:

Not just another fatal shooting:

Fishface wrote: "Another promising-looking legal defense goes down in flames:

"

Yeah I don't buy it either.

As Steve Martin said in THE JERK, I'm somebody now! I got a cellphone at last in mid-November and I just got my first Amber alert on it. Someone made off with a 2-week-old baby wearing a pink onesie. No vehicle information. Who does something like that, seriously?

Because Pakistan doesn't have enough problems:

Sfgate.com ran an article on the murder of the founder of Stanford University that may interest you.



The NY Times also ran the obit for one of the Zodiac investigators.

Ann wrote: "Sfgate.com ran an article on the murder of the founder of Stanford University that may interest you.

..."

Wow! I never heard of that case before. I found a book on the case and posted it to the shelves: Poisoned Palms: The Murder of Mrs. Jane Lathrop Stanford

This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held captive by their parents and starved. I'm sure there is plenty here for a book.

I just found out about this from the prosecutor handling the case. This is totally unlike Mike Hatty, and I can't believe I've been missing this huge story all this time:



More:

Fishface, I really love the part where he groped her while she was trying to vomit. What a man he must be. I feel sorry for his son (who lost the gene lottery already), and just hope the son doesn't turn out like him.

Hari wrote: "Fishface, I really love the part where he groped her while she was trying to vomit. What a man he must be. I feel sorry for his son (who lost the gene lottery already), and just hope the son doesn'..."

That's actually pretty common. Many women assaulted in frat houses, for instance, report being raped while covered in vomit. If that doesn't make clear that rape is not about sexual attraction, I don't know what does.

Koren wrote: "This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held captive by their parents and starved. I'm sure there is plent..."

Maybe there'll be a memoir from each of the kids. I'm wondering what we might eventually see out of Josef Fritzl's (grand)children.

Koren wrote: "This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held captive by their parents and starved. I'm sure there is plent..."

Koren, I can't agree with you more. It's impossible the neighbors didn't know. They merely chose to ignore.

I heard a remarkable discussion of the case on the radio last night. One commentator from the UK was asking how a family can be allowed to "home school" their children without an occasional home visit from some sort of inspector.

(That was their cover story. You never see our children in public because we are home schooling them. Also, the family was entirely nocturnal and they slept all the livelong day, which provided additional cover.)

The American commentator said "we don't punish people just because they are home-schooling their children." When asked why he calls home visits a punishment, he simply reiterated that we come from the standpoint of freedom, and violating individual freedom by inspecting a household where the children never attend school is a punishment.

I couldn't believe it! I do home visits myself for a living. I'm hardly the terror of the county.

They should have just used real ones. Nobody could complain about those!

Koren wrote: "This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held captive by their parents and starved. I'm sure there is plent..."

I've been watching the news about this case as it unfolds. It's mind-boggling; I cannot understand how a parent can treat their children in that manner.

The thing that is interesting...and a bit odd....I think, is that the parents allowed the children to keep journals. I think those journals will provide a lot of information for the investigation. I can only imagine the reason the parents allowed that is if they believed they would never be caught, in which case they intended to keep the children locked up for their entire life (which is kinda evidenced by the fact that they had 7 of their adult children living with them).

I am wondering if they will find out about any deceased children? It's hard to imagine they starved so many children (as well as physically abusing them, etc) for so many years, and all of them survived. I hope they all did; I hope there were no deaths. But, I wouldn't be surprised if that turns out to be the case.

I also find it odd that they would routinely take them all to Disneyland. I only find it odd because of the harsh conditions and punishments they otherwise inflicted on the kids. It's such a contrast.

I do think the majority of the neighbors had no idea what was going on. Idk how it is in other countries, but I know in the US, it is kinda common to not really know or associate with your neighbors. At least that has been my experience every place I have lived in the US.

There will no doubt be a book about this case; probably a few books, actually.

I'm wondering too about any decedents buried in the backyards or under the basement floors.

Weirdly, a lot of ugly-natured parents take their kids on nice outings. I think the matching outfits and posed group photos are a clue. They need something to mail out at Christmas to show how happy their family is and what great parents they are. "Look, we're a happier family than the Von Trapps!" And then, of course, the kids owe them 2 more years of unquestioning obedience on account of they've been so good to them.

Fishface wrote: "I'm wondering too about any decedents buried in the backyards or under the basement floors.

Weirdly, a lot of ugly-natured parents take their kids on nice outings. I think the matching outfits and..."

The matching clothes, imo, were a bit creepy almost. Especially when you consider some of the children in those photos were already adults. (The exception being the wedding vow renewal; that's not unusual for matching outfits in that sort of scenario). It's like they had no personality of their own. It's really a sad situation. I hope they get all they help they need and are able to, eventually, lead successful lives.

With regards to the potential of any children that may have died in their care...considering some of the reports I've seen about their horrific living conditions when they were in Texas, I feel investigators should search those properties as well.

Dannibal wrote: "Koren wrote: "This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held captive by their parents and starved. I'm sure ..."

I'm not actually as in the dark about why or how the parents could live this way; some sort of "folie a deux" or other mental aberration (if not outright mental illness) is certainly possible. It's any of the more normal people in their neighborhoods (it's my understanding the family had recently moved into a new area, no?) that boggle my mind. People notice and send you nasty notes and complain to local authorities if you leave your trash bin out too long, for heaven's sake, or don't mow your lawn every week. And there's always at least one town busy-body.
Even if the majority had "no idea": what about the others? And the school system that allowed them to be home-schooled, such as it was, with no follow-up?

(I do agree that the journals should be bombshells, even if they don't begin to explain this 2-3 decade nightmare.)

I've had totally different experiences in the places I've lived. Even if I don't associate with my neighbors I've found them to range all the way from supportive and distantly friendly to intrusive, especially when there are pregnancies and children involved. Merely a trip to the mailbox, or the store, any venturing outside someone- someone! is bound to see you over the course of 20+ plus years, and enquire about the new baby, or the kids, etc. Nope, can't believe that no one noticed anything awry as time went by.

However, I also know that denial, and unwillingness to get involved are super powerful forces in human interactions and society, all through history; here, i.e. the US .and abroad Turning a blind eye, and all that. Just think Kent State and Joe Paterno.

I haven't heard about Disneyland trips, though. How did the kids all tolerate traveling, when,for example, one of the adult children (29 or 27 years old?) weighed 75 lbs? Something sounds fishy in Denmark, or California, to me. Actually, a lot smells fishy about this travesty.

But where are those... pictures... of which you speak?

Hari wrote: "Dannibal wrote: "Koren wrote: "This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held captive by their parents and s..."

I doubt they all got to go. Someone washed his or her hands above the wrists and they got chained in the trailer while the others went to Disneyland.

By fishy, Hari, are you saying the trips didn't happen in your opinion?

Oh, the bitter, bitter irony:

Hari wrote: "I haven't heard about Disneyland trips. How did they all tolerate the travelling, when one of the adult children (29 or 27 years old?) weighed 75 lbs? "

Well, keep in mind that anyone seeing the kids would just assume they were young kids and not realize they were actually adults that were severely malnourished.

Fishface wrote: "I doubt they all got to go. Someone washed his or her hands above the wrists and they got chained in the trailer while the others went to Disneyland."

If you see the pictures from their trips, at least the ones they posted online, all the kids were with them on the trips.

I only see 12 kids in the wedding-vow-renewal photos. 12 kids and an Elvis impersonator.

And let's remember what we read in A Mother's Trial. When the family wanted to go camping, the baby's mysterious illness cleared up just until they got back home, then bango, she landed back in the hospital. And that mom got off so much on having a sick infant, you know how these Munchausen by Proxy mothers are. The Turpins had a perfect circle of cause and effect. We beat and starve them; they have cognitive problems as a result; this makes them more biddable; and we look like home-schooling, handicap-accessible heroes to the public.

Fishface wrote: "I only see 12 kids in the wedding-vow-renewal photos. 12 kids and an Elvis impersonator."

The wedding vow renewal shows 13 kids, depending on which pic you are looking at. The picture at the top of this shows 13 kids (don't forget the baby the mom is holding).

Fishface wrote: "Hari wrote: "Dannibal wrote: "Koren wrote: "This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held captive by their ..."

You know, anything is possible, this is such a weird and wacky thing. Where's FactCheck.com on all of it?

Hari wrote: "Fishface wrote: "Hari wrote: "Dannibal wrote: "Koren wrote: "This is all over the news. How did 13 kids fly under the radar and no one knew what was happening. 7 kids over the age of 18 being held ..."

Waiting for facts rather than breaking news bulletins to come in.

The show 20/20 did a segment on the case and has been posted to YouTube. Part 3, linked talks about their trips to Disney, with pictures from the trips that the family had posted to their FB page; it's toward the beginning of the video.

So, I have watched several YouTube videos on the Turpin situation, and referring back to my post in Message 23: neighbors and the younger sister of the mother were aware that there were "odd" things going on in the family from as far back as the 1990's. People who bought the houses the Turpins lost through foreclosure found unusual pictures (?), and deplorable, suspicious conditions left behind. A neighbor saw children being "marched" around inside the house for hours after midnight, etc. Who knows what else was noted, and by whom. Those were not isolated discoveries, presumably.
So, I stand by my opinion that when the press says "No one knew", they are being head-in-the-sand naively inaccurate, to say the least, and could be complicit in covering up criminally negligent behavior on the part of those who did not speak up, especially if they are in positions of public trust.

On the other hand, in the pictures taken in the Elvis wedding chapel, (I don't know when they were taken), the children appear slender, not emaciated, their hair looks fairly healthy health, and they appear to be able to move around with what looks like normal strength. Things obviously changed since then. I realize it is hard to tell from these home videos and pictures, but early reports in the news recently are misleading, so, like Fishface, in Message 30, I am waiting for facts, and balanced reporting.

Thanks for allowing me to rant. I get angry at people and institutions that are aggressively naive, and thereby put others in harms way (and keep them there).

Well, that's America for you. We figure a man's home is his castle and what goes on inside is nobody's business but theirs.

Riiiight... until it's not, and they go to jail, their "castle" is opened up to public scrutiny, derision and condemnation, and their children suffer for the rest of their lives.
And not only America, Fishface. We'll always have that German guy, Fritzl.

Hari wrote: "On the other hand, in the pictures taken in the Elvis wedding chapel, (I don't know when they were taken), the children appear slender, not emaciated, their hair looks fairly healthy health, and they appear to be able to move around with what looks like normal strength. Things obviously changed since then."

Well, considering that in the wedding vow renewal vids, they have the baby with them, that means it was within the last 2 years (since the baby is 2 years old now). That would also mean that the oldest child in those pix would have been around the age of 27 (since the oldest is now 29). Looking at the pictures, none of them look like adults though, really, which I would think that would mean that their growth has already been stunted from the neglect/starvation. And that speaks to my point before that, when they were out places, people that didn't know the family would probably just assume that they were all just children, not realizing some were malnourished adults.

Also, we know that their living environment in Texas was horrific as well, based on the pictures that have been shared of what it looked like after the family moved out (i.e. filth everywhere, the floors soiled, scratches on the walls/doors).

Hi Dannibel,
So you're saying that most of the malnutrition probably started in the past two years, after the pictures were taken? The videos I saw had the kids faces blurred, so I am not able to see how young or old they look, and several of the girls and boys are taller than Elizabeth.

I guess I am of the opinion that the situation will turn out to be less about malnutrition and more more about prolonged domination and sequestration, which, as in the case of Gypsy Rose Blanchard, can make a person appear "younger than stated age", i.e child-like even though an adult.

I predict this story is both worse and less severe than than it looks early on. What do you think? Something continues to smell fishy to me. I'm very anxious to learn more.

Hari....what I meant was that I think the abuse/neglect/starvation was happening prior to those wedding vow renewal. You had mentioned you didn't know when those videos/pictures were taken and that the kids just looked slender, not emaciated, and their hair looked healthy, etc. So, I was just pointing out that the oldest child in that video would have been 27 but none of them looked like adults (I have seen one video, from an international news program, on YouTube, that didn't blur the kids' faces; I can try to find it again if you want), and we know that when they lived in Texas, conditions were horrific even then.

I do think the case is about much more than the malnutrition, but that is definitely a huge factor, since the malnutrition has negatively impacted their growth and they have cognitive impairment, according to the prosecutor. He also said that the parents used food to torment the children; buying food and letting it sit out so the kids could see/smell it but not eat it.

One of the thing that "smells fishy" to me is some of the, slightly conflicting, stories from their previous neighbors, particularly in Texas. For example, supposedly, one such neighbor said once the Turpins moved away, the double wide trailer that had been on their property had dead dogs and cats inside it. That seems a bit fishy to me (only because, apparently, when they were arrested last week, they had two healthy dogs living with them). I mean, it is totally possible, just seems a bit off to me.

Also, the other thing that doesn't sit right with me is that in some of the pictures, that have been in the news, shows the Turpins on vacation with their kids, but there are others (both adults and children) in some of the pictures with them. Idk if it's coworkers or family members or what, in the pictures....but whoever is with them, I would be interested in their point of view of the Turpins. Did they not pick up on any hint that things were off with the family?

Lastly, I know that the one aunt (the mother's sister) was interviewed and she said she lived with them in Texas for a few months when she was in college (Idk how long ago that was), but she said that she thought the parents were strict, and that David and Louise would enter the bathroom while she was showering, and watch her. Which is really creepy. Tbf to her, she said she never said anything because at the time she was 19 and she didn't have the courage to say something.

Sorry for the long post. I have been reading a lot about this case.

As have we all!

Maybe along with the matchy-matchy outfits, they bought the kids human hair wigs for the Disney trips so people wouldn't see their scrofulous, diseased scalps showing thru the brittle kwashiorkor hair.

Whoa there, Dannibal. Did the Turpins come in and watch the kids showering, or Lousie's sister? The latter would be a whole new level of weird.

Dannibel,

Don't apologize for the information. You clearly have more access to more sources than I do: keep it coming.

What do you think about the prosecutor, by the way? He doesn't say where he is getting his information. For example, who told him about the parents tormenting them with food? People can misrepresent things in the heat of the moment. At times the newscaster guy seemed to know things the prosecutor wasn't aware of. Is it possible he is going off half cocked, maybe to keep his office or to be in the spotlight? It seems to me he was talking about some medical information and other findings that ought to be kept confidential until the trials. I don't have much experience working with prosecutors, but I know that hospitals have strict confidentiality protocols these days.
As far as the aunt goes, I don't fault her for not coming forward. As you say, she was young. So she saw some weirdness: that's not all that unheard of in families At this time it doesn't seem she had much basis for informing authorities of tangible abuse or neglect, so really no duty to report. Has she (underlined) spoken about the kid's appearance as far as signs of malnutrition?

If it's not too inconvenient to you, could you tell me where to look for clearer videos? Any sources you can point me too will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dannibel. This is getting curiouser and curiouser.

All they would have had to say was that this or that kid had a special medical condition and people would believe it without question. I'm not the only one here who's read Sickened: The Memoir of a Munchausen by Proxy Childhood. The many, many doctors who attended this girl did not see what mom was doing to her. They oughta be experts.

Fishface,
After watching several hours of grainy, computer-narrated videos last night, I finally heard some medical terms that convinced me there was some malnutrition in these children. Heretofore the only thing I had heard to support that theory was a report that "some sheriff's deputies reported seeing children that were malnourished" as if they could re relied on to diagnose the condition. That, from the prosecutor.
But last night, watching a press briefing , given by the D.A., he said he had reports from medical professionals that some of the kids were found to have protein deficiencies. This sort of information can only come after lab tests, medical ezamination etc. Now I'm down with it.
But also, after watching these new-to-me videos, I am more sickened by people now, (now!) coming forward with their suspicions about this family. Each place these people lived neighbors have stories. If only...

Hari wrote: "Dannibel,

Don't apologize for the information. You clearly have more access to more sources than I do: keep it coming.

What do you think about the prosecutor, by the way? He doesn't say where he ..."

I would certainly hope that the prosecutor is interviewing the children directly, not relying on secondhand information from hospital staff. That's gossip, not evidence.

Fishface wrote: "Whoa there, Dannibal. Did the Turpins come in and watch the kids showering, or Lousie's sister? The latter would be a whole new level of weird. "

They would watch Louise's sister shower. In her interview in this she talks about staying with the Turpins when they lived in Texas, and the part about the showers is around the 4 min mark.

Hari wrote: "What do you think about the prosecutor, by the way? He doesn't say where he is getting his information. For example, who told him about the parents tormenting them with food?

If it's not too inconvenient to you, could you tell me where to look for clearer videos? Any sources you can point me too will be greatly appreciated. "

I think the DA is probably getting his info from the police, who are probably either getting their info from the children themselves and/or from the journals that the kids had wrote. In terms of the info the interviewer knew but the DA hadn't (specifically, the children marching back and forth at night), I think that was just the journalist doing his job by interviewing neighbors. The police and DA have a lot on their hands, interviewing the kids and investigating the house; it may have just been they have not gotten to speak to that particular neighbor as of yet. The journalists, on the other hand, don't have access to the home nor the kids right now, so all they can do is talk to neighbors.

As for where to get better videos, the one I linked further up in this comment has some good information (including pictures of the home they lived in in Texas); it's part 2 of a three part story done on 20/20 about the case. You can also find the interview with the other sister, Teresa Robinette, on YouTube if you just do a search for "Turpin" on YouTube. I can't find the article now that had the pictures with the unblurred faces; I think the international news have started blurring the faces as well now. I did come across this YouTube where the faces are not blurred, but it is in a non-English language (maybe French?).

Obviously the Turpin's fb page was up, a week ago (seeing as that's where the news sources got the images from), but Idk if fb has taken it down or not. It should be easy to find, just search for David or Louise Turpin.

Fishface wrote: "All they would have had to say was that this or that kid had a special medical condition and people would believe it without question. I'm not the only one here who's read [book:Sickened: The Memoi..."

Yeah, I read that book a while back; so very sad and disturbing. :( Very good point that, if people did question the parents about why the children were so small, they could just say they had a medical condition and people would probably believe them.

It turns out the oldest son was attending a local community college for 6 semesters and had a 3.93 GPA (which, for any non-Americans here, that is really good!); the last semester he attended was in 2017. Apparently he would be accompanied by his mom. I am curious to what his classmates thought about him; if he had made any friends. This talks about it, and has the son's transcripts.

Fishface wrote: "Hari wrote: "Dannibel,

Don't apologize for the information. You clearly have more access to more sources than I do: keep it coming.

What do you think about the prosecutor, by the way? He doesn't ..."

Fishface,

I also hope the D.A. and the prosecutor interview the kids, but results of lab tests, medical exams and actual physical findings would come from the professionals, not the kids or family.
Fishface wrote: "Hari wrote: "Dannibel,

Don't apologize for the information. You clearly have more access to more sources than I do: keep it coming.

What do you think about the prosecutor, by the way? He doesn't ..."

Fishface wrote: "Hari wrote: "Dannibel,

Don't apologize for the information. You clearly have more access to more sources than I do: keep it coming.

What do you think about the prosecutor, by the way? He doesn't ..."

And here we go again -

I came across this today; it's written by a psychotherapist who was also held captive for many years when she was a child. She talks about her own history in relation to the Turpin case. Apparently she had written her own memoir: The Only Girl in the World: A Memoir Anyone read it before?

Dannibal wrote: "I came across this article today; it's written by a psychotherapist who was also held captive for many years when she was a child. She talks about her own history in relation to the Turpin case. Ap..."

Wow, never heard of it. Adding to TC shelves now!

Stuff like always reminds me that law enforcement and military jobs are among the top 10 occupations that people with an antisocial personality disorder feel drawn to...

David Lee Roth impersonator arrested on sex charges:



The morning DJ who informed me of this situation commented, "That's sick. Who DOES something like that? Impersonate David Lee Roth!?!?!?"

Home care worker filmed abusing dementia patient: