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Hags and Crones won as the theme for the November 15-January group read!
Now it's time to nominate the books!
Every member can nominate 3 books, one young adult novel or short story collection, one adult novel or short story collection and one traditional tale or a collection of traditional tales.
The novels should all have mythic or fairy/folk tale content. They can be direct retellings of a tale or influenced or inspired by tales.
So nominate away please!

How do we feel about a non-fiction examination of tales?

I'm thinking that I still haven't finished From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and Their Tellers, the first half of which has a LOT to say about hags and crones. Could that be a substitute for a book of traditional tales?

Emily wrote: "How do we feel about a non-fiction examination of tales?

I'm thinking that I still haven't finished From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and Their Tellers, the first half of ..."

I want to read that book anyway.

My adult fiction is Moss Witch and Other Stories - a short story collection.

I nominate Except the Queen by Jane Yolen as an adult/ ya novel, not sure which it is.

Emily wrote: "How do we feel about a non-fiction examination of tales?

I'm thinking that I still haven't finished From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and Their Tellers, the first half of ..."

Hey Emily, just a heads up that we did a group read of this one back in 2015, you can check it out here: /topic/show/...

The discussions in this group don't close, so you can post in that thread anytime you want.

Julia wrote: "I nominate Except the Queen by Jane Yolen as an adult/ ya novel, not sure which it is."

Hi Julia, we did a group read of this one back in 2016. You can see the spoiler and spoiler free discussions here: /topic/group...

YA: The House With Chicken Legs

Adult: Baba Yaga Laid an Egg

Traditional: ??? Drawing a blank here. I'll wait for others to nominate.

Leah wrote: "YA: Howl's Moving Castle

Adult: Baba Yaga Laid an Egg

Traditional: ??? Drawing a blank here. I'll wait for others to nominate."

Now I need to rethink my nominations as you've chosen precisely what I meant to pick :)

For traditional, maybe Angela Carter's Book of Fairy Tales. My understanding is that they are traditional tales, just not the ones traditionally collected.

Obviously the Grimms, etc are full of crones, but I imagine most people are familiar with the classics.

Is there likely to be much YA fiction about Hags and Crones? Maybe we could do two adult reads?

Asaria wrote: "Now I need to rethink my nominations as you've chosen precisely what I meant to pick"

Unfortunately, we already had a group read of Howl's Moving Castle back in 2012 spoiler thread here /topic/show/... and no spoilers thread here /topic/show/... so I'm having to rethink my YA nomination.

Emily wrote: "Is there likely to be much YA fiction about Hags and Crones?"

I'm finding a nice selection of Baba Yaga tales in YA, but I'm looking for others more general as "hags and crones". This is the fun of nominating :-) -- looking through all my shelves and GR tags and lists to find a book.

I'm tempted to nominate Beauty by Sheri S. Tepper, but the heroine is quite young there at the beginning...

I just found what sounds to me like the perfect Adult nomination.Hag by Kathleen Kaufman. It's a mystical historical novel about women who are considered daughters of the Celtic Hag Goddess, the Cailleach. I immediately requested it from the library. So I'm reading it regardless of whether it's selected.

Adult: In the Forests of Serre by Patricia A. McKillip

So many cool nominations! I found this one so far that sounds interesting. /book/show/6...

Leah wrote: "Hey Emily, just a heads up that we did a group read of this one back in 2015, you can check it out here: /topic/show/...
The discussions in this group don't close, so you can post in that thread anytime you want. ..."

Emily wrote: "How do we feel about a non-fiction examination of tales?

I'm thinking that I still haven't finished From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and Their Tellers, the first half of ..."

Thanks Leah, for remembering and pointing this out!
Emily, We read non-fiction books about fairy tales, folklore and mythology here, but we already had a group read for From the Beast to the Blonde: On Fairy Tales and Their Tellers a few years ago. /topic/show/...
It's great and very fitting for this group read, so if some if you want to read it please feel free to add on your comments! I can even put the thread in the group read folder!

Asaria wrote: "I'm tempted to nominate Beauty by Sheri S. Tepper, but the heroine is quite young there at the beginning..."

Is the heroine a crone or hag for a significant part of the novel? We are not that strict here and if she's young when the novel starts that's okay as long as crones and or hags play a role.

Jalilah wrote: "Leah wrote: "Hey Emily, just a heads up that we did a group read of this one back in 2015, you can check it out here: /topic/show/...
The discussions in this group don't cl..."

Thanks both for the heads up!

Adult nomination: In the House in the Dark of the Woods.

The blurb on GR doesn't mention crones, but from the Guardian review: " She wanders, of course, from the path, and into the orbit of three other women, who might be companions, or witches, or versions of herself. There’s swashbuckling Captain Jane, who professes to help those lost in the forest; Granny Someone, whose powers are waning; and enigmatic Eliza, to whose inviting cottage our heroine finds herself constantly returning."

And in the NYT:
"In Laird Hunt’s newest novel, “In the House in the Dark of the Woods,�� there is a game in which the players act out a fairy tale and then abruptly switch roles, so Hansel becomes Gretel, Gretel becomes the witch."

Emily wrote: "Adult nomination: In the House in the Dark of the Woods.

The blurb on GR doesn't mention crones, but from the Guardian review: " She wanders, of course, from the path, and into the..."

I've read that one and I would say it counts!

Mary wrote: "Adult: In the Forests of Serre by Patricia A. McKillip"

We had a group read for it in 2014 /topic/show/...

Emily wrote: "For traditional, maybe Angela Carter's Book of Fairy Tales. My understanding is that they are traditional tales, just not the ones traditionally collected.
Obviously the Grimms, etc a..."

I forgot to mention above,( I'll change it) that a collection of short stories usually counts as an adult novel. But if they are original tales that have just been rewritten slightly then they can count as original/traditional tales. I'm not familiar with this particular collection,
so I can't say!

For my adult novel I nominate Gilgamesh of Uruk by Tamara Agha-Jaffar!

I am still looking for the other 2. I think its fine if we can't find any YA books that we just read 2 adult novels.

Angela Carter's Book of Fairy Tales would count as traditional. They're not her short stories, but fairy tales she collected.

I'll nominate things as soon as I have a chance to think about it. :)

Jalilah wrote: "Emily wrote: "For traditional, maybe Angela Carter's Book of Fairy Tales. My understanding is that they are traditional tales, just not the ones traditionally collected.
Obviously the Grimms, etc a..."

I forgot to mention above,( I'll change it) that a collection of short stories usually counts as an adult novel. But if they are original tales that have just been rewritten slightly then they can count as original/traditional tales. I'm not familiar with this particular tale so I can't say! ..."
I've just realised I have the book and have never read it. It looks lovely! Angela Carter has collected these tales from around the world. Inside the front cover, she says it contains 'pretty maids and old crones; crafty women and bad girls; enchantresses and midwives; rascal aunts and odd sisters'. Although it is almost 500 pages long, it is divided into topics, such as 'Clever Women, Resourceful Girls and Desperate Stratagems' and 'Witches'. So this does look like a good fit for the traditional tales.

Maggi wrote: "So many cool nominations! I found this one so far that sounds interesting. /book/show/6..."

This does sound interesting, and not a figure I was familiar with before at all.

Just so the title is in this thread for ease of access, it's Visions of the Cailleach: The Myths, Stories and History of the British / Celtic Earth Shaping Crone Goddess of Winter

Thanks Emily! I haven’t figured out how to quote to reply or share books like that yet.

Jalilah wrote: "Asaria wrote: "I'm tempted to nominate Beauty by Sheri S. Tepper, but the heroine is quite young there at the beginning..."

Is the heroine a crone or hag for a signifi..."

I don't remember much. Probably she is from the middle part to the end. Although the heroine's aging and lost chance for a normal life due to curse is an important element of her storyline.

Here are my adult and YA noms. I'll research something for traditional later.

Adult: Dendera by Yūya Satō
YA: The Waking Forest by Alyssa Wees

If anyone is looking for some recs, I loved The Hearing Trumpet by Leonora Carrington (I can't remember if we did a group read of that one?) and Terry Pratchett's witch books are my favorites!

Margaret wrote: "Here are my adult and YA noms. I'll research something for traditional later.

Adult: Dendera by Yūya Satō
YA: The Waking Forest by [author:Alyssa W..."

Does The Hearing Trumpet deal with hags? I want to read that one anyway...

Emily wrote: "Does The Hearing Trumpet deal with hags? I want to read that one anyway...."

Sort of? Not witchy in a traditional sense but still mythic older women.

I see we had a group read of it in 2015, though. I couldn't remember if we had!

Margaret wrote: "anyone is looking for some recs, I loved The Hearing Trumpet by Leonora Carrington(I can't remember if we did a group read of that one?)! "

I loved, loved loved The Hearing Trumpet and would read it again!

Here is the list ni to the discussion we had! /topic/show/... It's never too late read it and your comments!

Emily wrote: "Does The Hearing Trumpet deal with hags? I want to read that one anyway?
Not Hags or Crones per se. It's about older women with strong personalities, very grey power, very feminist and magically surreal at the same time!

I will nominate The Magic Circle by Donna Jo Napoli for YA book.

This is what we have so far:
Adult:
Moss Witch and Other Stories
Baba Yaga Laid an Egg
Hag
In the House in the Dark of the Woods
Gilgamesh of Uruk
Dendera


Young Adult
The House with Chicken Legs
Howl's Moving Castle
Beauty
The Waking Forest
The Magic Circle

Traditional Tales
Angela Carter's Book of Fairy Tales
Visions of the Cailleach: The Myths, Stories and History of the British / Celtic Earth Shaping Crone Goddess of Winter
American Witch Stories
The Complete Grimm's Fairy Tales

Ideally it would be great to have a few more traditional tales.
Please note I put Howl's Moving Castle in even though we had it as a group read already, because it was quite a while ago. I don't think Margaret or I were even in the group yet.
I am debating putting In the Forests of Serre in too because it looks like when we had it as a group read not many people participated.
Let me know what you all think!
I'll put up the polls tomorrow!

Jalilah wrote: "Margaret wrote: "anyone is looking for some recs, I loved The Hearing Trumpet by Leonora Carrington(I can't remember if we did a group read of that one?)! "

I loved, loved loved [book:The Hearing ..."

It sounds great! I almost bought it earlier this month but got sucked in by some other NYRB titles instead. For the Christmas list!

The Hearing Trumpet might be in my top ten favorite books. Or top 20. :) It would be impossible to create such a list. But I think about the book all the time.

I'll nominate American Witch Stories by Hubert J. Davis. I'm a little worried about how accessible it is for everyone. I have a copy from the bookstore I work at (actually, today was my last day working there).

No library in my inter library loan network has Visions of the Cailleach: The Myths, Stories and History of the British / Celtic Earth Shaping Crone Goddess of Winter, but it turns out that I purchased it some time ago in Kindle format. So I could read it. It's a good companion for my nom, Hag which deals with the daughters of Cailleach and Cailleach herself.

So, this has sent me on a very interesting path in search of more traditional or scholarly books on crones. And I am largely failing. There are scholarly articles. There are plenty of webpages relating to Wicca. But nobody seems to have edited a collection detailing the old woman, specifically, in folklore. I'm actually considering grabbing a bunch of tales and dropping them in a pdf and sending it to whoever is interested.

I did find Folk-Lore of Women, which is an old text and considered quite misogynist but could be interesting for just that reason.

I'm also enjoying this article


You can read it online for free by creating an account.

Emily wrote: "So, this has sent me on a very interesting path in search of more traditional or scholarly books on crones. And I am largely failing. There are scholarly articles. There are plenty of webpages rela..."

We can definitely open up an extra thread to go in the group read folder to discuss various texts on the subject!


For traditional tales I will nominate The Complete Grimm's Fairy Tales. We don't have to read all the tales, just a few where hags, witches or Crones play a significant role.

The poll shows are up now!
/poll/list/3...
Time to vote

Jalilah wrote: "Please note I put Howl's Moving Castle in even though we had it as a group read already, because it was quite a while ago."

So, if it wins, will you be moving the existing thread(s) into the current group reads discussion and we'll continue from the last post in that thread?

Leah wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "Please note I put Howl's Moving Castle in even though we had it as a group read already, because it was quite a while ago."

So, if it wins, will you be moving the existing thread(s..."

Good question! I have been pondering over this ever since I put Howl's Moving Castle in the list! I'll definitely bring this up with Christine and Margaret, but what are your thoughts Leah?

Edited to add, I see now I was in the group already when we had the group read and even made a few comments on the threads, but I don't have strong feelings either way if we have a new thread or keep the old.

Jalilah wrote: "Good question! I have been pondering over this ever since I put Howl's Moving Castle in the list! I'll definitely bring this up with Christine and Margaret, but what are your thoughts Leah?

Personally, I think use the existing threads. This way if anyone searches for discussions on Howl's Moving Castle they'll be pointed to the two threads with both group reads in one place -- not spread out over four threads. It just seems neater that way, and easier for us to have discussions now as well as in the future. Especially since our discussions don't close.

The Winners are:
Adult Novel: Baba Yaga Laid an Egg by Dubravka Ugrešić
Young Adult Novel: Howl's Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones
Traditional Tale Collection: The Complete Grimm's Fairy Tales

Here are the links for the discussion threads!
/topic/group...