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Welcome to the Chat Lounge! Our good friend Sherlock Holmes has allowed us to use his top floor at 221 Baker Street whenever we like, for group chat. Mrs Hudson is on hand to pour us our favourite tipple and Miss Marple is on her way from St. Mary Mead, with her knitting. Even Hercule Poirot has promised to pop in, just as soon as he has finished waxing his abundant moustache.

So take a seat, relax, pick a book of your choice from the library, and when you're nicely settled, tell us what's going on in your life at the moment.

How's everything today?

Hi Jean, today is starting off grand for me. I received my new tin of Bewley's Irish Breakfast tea and having a cuppa now. Unfortunately, here in Florida many of my family and friends as well as myself are still rebuilding from hurricane michael (I refuse to capitalize its name! ;-) but we've settled into a kind of 'new normal' routine. Too, I am about to start allergy treatment since apparently from April to November I should not venture outdoors LOL. The test revealed that I'm allergic to just about everything that blooms in Florida during that time. Other than that life is good. michael did not destroy all of my books!!! Woohoo!

Gosh those allergies sound pretty full on ShanDizzy :( Yes, an excuse for doing lots of extra reading, and spoiling yourself after the hurricane :)

Enjoying some warmer weather here in Minnesota, and heartily wishing for spring to hurry up. I'm drinking my Earl Grey Creme and catching up on email before the library opens at 1:00 today. Was bummed last night that I couldn't listen to The Spies of Shilling Lane on the way home, as my library eaudiobook had expired. It seems there are holds waiting for it, so I'll have to wait to finish it! I hope it doesn't take too long!

Aw ... that's a shame, Laurel. A librarian once advised me to just put another hold on it straightaway, so I could get the book back quite quickly to finish it.

But if you're a librarian yourself, couldn't you just sneakily put it under the counter? LOL

I wish - but it's an e-audiobook from Overdrive. I did immediately put another hold on it, unfortunately there are 2 holds waiting ahead of me, darn it!

Ah, I see. Good luck! Maybe those 2 will give up on it quickly :)

It's snowing here!

Jean, Can you describe what "English style" is in a mystery and how it differs from any other mystery book?

Temperature is 29C here in Kolkata. Which is just OK for us. The mango tree in front of my house is in bloom as is my bougainvillea. Common wisdom says, if it doesn't rain heavily or there's no thunderstorm there will be a good crop of mangoes.

Sonali wrote: "Temperature is 29C here in Kolkata. Which is just OK for us. The mango tree in front of my house is in bloom as is my bougainvillea. Common wisdom says, if it doesn't rain heavily or there's no thu..."

What a beautiful picture you have put in my mind Sonali! I could do with some of that ;)

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "Jean, Can you describe what "English style" is in a mystery and how it differs from any other mystery book?"

I think the difference is perhaps that it is still largely detective fiction, but more cerebral. There's nothing too graphic: nothing visceral and the murders are not usually described. These books use the English vernacular. They are usually set in England, with English traditions and history, and recognisably follow the Golden Age style. Country houses and the like often feature.

I posted a thread yesterday giving the definition of a mystery story LINK HERE so will add the defintion of a Golden Age Mystery to that.

This group's title was not my invention, nor even my predecessor's, but that's where the term "English style" comes from. It's a shorthand, but based on Golden Age mysteries, if you look at the group's tags (which I have not changed).

I rewrote our blurb, to fit more precisely what we read here, as those in the group for a decade for more were questioning a few things (eg., not finishing a book in one sitting!), so it seemed to exclude what we might call "cosies", which I thought was a shame. But if we push it to include every sort of mystery and slant it too much towards contemporary books, then I think this group would be similar to several others here, rather than keeping its unique focus. And that would be a shame. Already someone has said that other mystery groups feature a lot of US crime, (and in her country she cannot get these books anyway). Here is the original blurb again though, in case it helps:

"Do you love mysteries written in the "English" style? I define the "English" mystery style as heavy on plot, character development and, perhaps most importantly, detail. These are not formulaic writers and these are not books to be read in one sitting. Rather - they are books to be read slowly and savoured and they often leave you guessing right up until the end.

Old School? Think Ngaio Marsh, Agatha Christie, and Dorothy Sayers. New school? Think John Connolly, P.D. James, and Colin Dexter."

I'd love to know who wrote it, as I do feel in the second group of authors, all they did was to express their own likes! And can "new school" really be writers mainly in the 1960s and 1970s? I can think of at least 4 "Ages". So I tried to be more objective, but it's tricky to be comprehensive when you only have a few words.

If we discuss Scandi crime ("Nordic Noir") or American hardboiled, then that's not in the remit of this group - but fine off-topic :)

Yes, to me the Mystery title is strange, as some people will/may think it should include the supernatural as more than just the odd teasing nod added to the puzzle.

But you are clarifying clearly what ‘we�� should be about in this club!

Bravo.

Interesting -- Whenever I thought about the mystery book, I had never associated that the mystery book would have supernatural or paranormal elements unless specifically categorized as a "supernatural mystery" either in the descriptive blurb about the book or revealed in the title itself using such words as "haunted," "cursed," "ghost," etc.; but rather would involve a crime that is investigative through clues, interrogation, and real evidence to solve the mystery. I see in the list of the categories of mysteries in your link the type "Intuitionist" which some might intuit to be supernatural and based only on a nebulous feeling. However, to me this simply translates to a "hunch" that a detective might have based on evidence and not on some supernatural phenomenon or "divine intervention."

Thanks for your responses, Jean and John. The oath and "ten commandments" for The Detection Club" (also from Jean's link) are amusing and certainly exclude the use of the "Jiggery-Pokery" and "Mumbo Jumbo" of the supernatural. The Golden Age of Murder by Martin Edwards looks to be an interesting read, or is that just a supernatural feeling! :-)

:D

I'm so sorry Rita, and hope you get a good night's sleep x

Elizabeth - probably thinking of Tales of Mystery and Imagination by Edgar Allan Poe which does include the supernatural. But then, he did die in 1849! Just ignore me,

My understanding Rita was that John Nettles said he didn’t want to be the oldest detective on TV, and so in 2009 said he would only do 2 more years, and he did !! So the reality was, that it wasn’t a sudden decision but a long time in the planning.

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: " The Golden Age of Murder by Martin Edwards looks to be an interesting read..."

I haven't read that one Elizabeth so I'd be interested to know what you think of it. I am part way through his The Story of Classic Crime in 100 Books which the folk in this group might enjoy. The blurb says:

This book tells the story of crime fiction published during the first half of the twentieth century. The diversity of this much-loved genre is breathtaking, and so much greater than many critics have suggested. To illustrate this, the leading expert on classic crime discusses one hundred books ranging from 'The Hound of the Baskervilles' to 'Strangers on a Train' which highlight the entertaining plots, the literary achievements, and the social significance of vintage crime fiction.

This book serves as a companion to the acclaimed British Library Crime Classics series but it tells a very diverse story. It presents the development of crime fiction-from Sherlock Holmes to the end of the golden age - in an accessible, informative and engaging style.

It's very easy to read and I now have even more crime books to try out!

Well, my birthday is coming up (Friday), so as a gift to myself, I bought three audiobooks. I have a 50-minute commute one way (depending on traffic and weather), and I find that audiobooks make the time pass more quickly than music. I refuse to listen to the local radio stations, which are mostly country or hip hop. I bought Evil Under the Sun by Agatha Christie, Carry On, Jeeves by P.G. Wodehouse, and Murder by the Book: Audio Editions by Rex Stout.

I also bought a lovely bear made by Hamleys (?), a company I'm not familiar with. I can't remember how tall he is, but he's fully jointed and still has his tags. I seem to have started collecting bears and other stuffed animals after a lapse of about 10-15 years. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not due to space.

I go to Tractor Supply a lot for bird seed and they've had those Tyco stuffed animals on clearance. I ended up buying several, including two for my nieces and one for a friend. I commented to my friend that my cubicle at work was beginning to resemble a toy shop, so I took some of them home. Nobody said anything, though. I'm surrounded almost entirely by other women, who love the little guys.

I also have a male coworker who likes trolls and Schleich figurines, which I collect on a small scale. I have several cats, most of whom belonged to my late mother. I gave her a "cat castle" setup to display the cats and then added a couple of my own. My coworker actually made a litter pan for them, which made me laugh!

Right now, I'm trying to get over a nasty ear infection and wait out the ugly weather. It's been raining off and on all week. Today is supposed to be pretty bad, though it appears to have cleared out at the moment. I'm still rather deaf in my right ear, but it's gotten a little better. I think this must be linked to an allergy or something. I haven't had something like this since I was a little kid, so it's really annoying.

"Adrian wrote: "My understanding Rita was that John Nettles said he didn’t want to be the oldest detective on TV, and so in 2009 said he would only do 2 more years, and he did !!

Rita wrote: So why wasn't there an episode explaining the fictitious reason for his departure. Suddenly he just wasn't there."

There was an episode, set in a health spa I think where Tom Barnaby was discussing retirement. As Adrian says, he would have been the oldest bobby in the business otherwise! And Jones carried on as Sergeant with Tom's cousin, John, for a while. If you can accept the unlikely premise that someone's cousin would be appointed, I think it was fairly seamless ;)

Rita wrote: "Are you saying that we can only read and discuss Golden age style mysteries?..."

I'm just a mod Rita, not a leader, and I'm not banning anything! My first task was to read as many of the threads as I could, to make sure there was a consensus, and that I knew what it was.

I've tried to set out at length both here, and in the "What is a Mystery?" thread, how I could see the members of this group over the past decade had thought of it, and contributed. That's all! The blurb needing rewriting because it no longer reflected the discussions.

Certainly if you keep "golden age" in mind, it will help.

And keep the discussion going in the "What is a Mystery?" thread by all means!

I hope you soon feel better.

Diane wrote: "I also bought a lovely bear made by Hamleys (?), a company I'm not familiar with ..."

Gosh that brings back memories! The bears are traditionally made, and perfect. We bought our niece (now in her late 30s) her first teddy bear from there. Of course she called him "Hamley" because he was labelled such, and she still has him :)

They are a little like Steiff bears, and "Hamleys" toyshop is a child's wonderland. Hamleys is a British multinational toy retailer; one of the oldest and largest in the world. It was founded by William Hamley as "Noah's Ark" in High Holborn, London, in 1760 :) You have yourself the cream of the crop there, Diane!

Enjoy your birthday! Mine's coming up a few days later :)

Bionic Jean wrote: "Diane wrote: "I also bought a lovely bear made by Hamleys (?), a company I'm not familiar with ..."

Gosh that brings back memories! The bears are perfect, and we bought our niece (now in her late ..."

Thank you for the information! I actually received him a couple hours ago. He's 18 inches tall and his tag says, "Hamleys, Est. London 1760, The Finest Toy Shop in the World." It gives his name as Albert. Hamleys sounds like a British version of FAO Schwartz. He's a lovely bear, though the thread on his nose is a little messed up. Very heavy and solidly made. I'm impressed.

Oh, so you knew that already LOL! :) And now I have to look up FAO Schwartz ...

Bionic Jean wrote: "There was an episode, set in a health spa I think where Tom Barnaby was discussing retirement. As Adrian says, he would have been the oldest bobby in the business otherwise! And Jones carried on as Sergeant with Tom's cousin, John, for a while. If you can accept the unlikely premise that someone's cousin would be appointed, I think it was fairly seamless ;) ..."

As Jean says it was set in a Health Spa and was series 13 Episode 8 called "Fit for Murder". John Barnaby was at the time a DI in The Sussex Constabulary based out of Brighton . Although he first appeared as Tom's cousin in Series 13 Ep. 2 "The Sword of Guillaume".

Thank you Ade! That's what I like to see - an expert on the job ;) I had a vague memory of the earlier appearance of John Barnaby too, but couldn't catch hold of it :(

...John Nettles said he didn’t want to be the oldest detective on TV

And prior to Midsomer Murders, he'd done ten years as Bergerac, so he'd spent virtually his whole tv career playing coppers. Not surprising he felt he'd had enough!

It must have earned him a copper or two though ;)

Bionic Jean wrote: "It must have earned him a copper or two though ;)"

Ooh that was an awful pun !!

Sorry :D

(to explain: - "coppers" is also a slang word for small English currency, like "dimes".)

Rita wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: ""Adrian wrote: "My understanding Rita was that John Nettles said he didn’t want to be the oldest detective on TV, and so in 2009 said he would only do 2 more years, and he did !..."

There was an episode with a gathering of the family and Tom’s close colleagues where he announced his retirement and that his cousin had been selected to take over his job. I guess it was the last episode of the series before the one where the new Barnaby took over.

Is Bergerac an old British detective series?

Yes, from the 1980s. Set on the island of Jersey.

It had all the requirements - instantly recognisable theme tune, photogenic locations, detective with personal issues and a classic car. Generally pleasant undemanding Saturday or Sunday evening viewing.

I tried to find the opening credits on Youtube, but this was the best I could do:

You can get all the episode of "Bergerac" on DVD. I bought them for Chris a couple of years ago. We thoroughly enjoyed watching them again, but they weren't keepers for us. I quite liked one of the main characters being an amiable (but sort of crooked) millionaire.

Another British crime series which felt modern at the time, but which now seems almost a set piece, is "Shoestring" with a young Trevor Eve. He is a private investigator, and works from a local radio station.

Thank for the extra info, all :)

Rita wrote: "Don't worry about me being a little picky right now. This is a rough time for me. I don't mean to be difficult ..."

Rita - I totally understand, as you know; please don't worry. I'm just glad you joined us right now :) This group has been going for so long that many established members know exactly what the group's focus is, but it's difficult to define "Englishness" to new members. I think there's enough up there to get a feel though, and when you've been in a few discussions, it all crystallises.

I liked Shoestring, it was a bit different. At the time I wished it had lasted longer. It was by the writer who created Bergerac, I think? Just before Bergerac.

And ... today is

A perfect excuse to curl up with a good book!

Victoria wrote: "I liked Shoestring, it was a bit different. At the time I wished it had lasted longer. It was by the writer who created Bergerac, I think? Just before Bergerac."

Me too - I hadn't picked that up, but I'm sure you're right. They had the same "feel" :)

Rita - Do you mean when Susan said, "There was an episode with a gathering of the family and Tom’s close colleagues where he announced his retirement and that his cousin had been selected to take over his job. ..."?

Because I'm having trouble recollecting that one too! Some of them are repeated over and over again, but others not so often. I wonder if it was a Christmas special, and not often shown, perhaps.

Bergerac - Terence Alexander played the dodgy millionaire businessman . He died some time ago, I think.

That's him! I could not think of his name.

Does everyone know the website Faded Page?

There are books by quite a few of the authors mentioned in this group there.

This is what they say:
Faded Page is an archive of eBooks that are provided completely free to everyone.... These books are public domain in Canada (because we follow the Canadian copyright laws), but if you are in another country, you should satisfy yourself that you are not breaking the copyright laws of your own country by downloading them.

Great link, Victoria, thank you!

But the warning is worth taking note of. It's possible to start a free ebook when getting on a plane and then find you are breaking the law by still reading it at your destination! Each country has different dates.

Bergerac - For those in the UK, Bergerac is currently being shown on UKTV, which is part of Freeview and NOW TV I believe.

I cannot find any record of Shoestring on any channel in the UK.

All the Midsommer episodes are currently on Britbox.

I’ve never seen ‘Shoestring,�� I must track it down. I did like Trevor Eve in that cold case thing with Sue Johnston, someone will remember the name of the series.

The Midsomer Murders episode where Tom announces his immediate retirement is called ‘Fit for Murder�� and is Series 13, ep. 8.

"Waking the Dead". He was quite old and venerable then though. In "Shoestring" he's a cheeky mid-20s years old.

Hi Rita, that’s the one. He is nearing his birthday, he’ll be reaching the age his father was when he died and he decides to make the most of the time left to him by retiring. He makes the announcement right at the end of the episode at his birthday party.

They were better at the time than they are now, if that makes sense, Rita.

Rita wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "You can get all the episode of "Bergerac" on DVD. I bought them for Chris a couple of years ago. We thoroughly enjoyed watching them again, but they weren't keepers for us. I qu..."

You could always check surrounding libraries for it!

Thankfully, my library is well stocked in British tv shows ❤️

Rita wrote: "Susan wrote: "Rita wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: ""Adrian wrote: "My understanding Rita was that John Nettles said he didn’t want to be the oldest detective on TV, and so in 2009 said he would only do..."

I must admit I've never heard they filmed two endings as John Nettles had decided 2 years previously he was going to go, but who knows eh ??