Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Gang, brief time-out for a little reflection and musing:

I notice a lot of other Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ groups lately fretting about 'activity levels'. They're all wondering what to do to 'boost activity'. Groan. I personally, do not worry about things like this; and I'd like to share my perspective with ya as to 'why'.

When I see a group (like ours) possessing a somewhat 'sleepy' character, it doesn't worry me. An occasional post..'intermittent' conversation..I see that as quite normal.

From my POV, a group which is 'too busy' gets annoying very quickly. Other groups where I'm a member--give me fits--with constant messages to my inbox every morning. Group reads, buddy reads, polls, book-of-the-month, 'progress meter', promotions, giveaways..on and on and on. A slew of other stuff I don't care about.

In groups I moderate, I deliberately do not foment this kind of fussiness, rigamarole, and busywork. Its like this: I recall I was once a member of a movie fansite once and a whole section of that site was devoted to mimicking a 'theater snackbar'. You could 'buy' your favorite snacks. With 'virtual' money. To do what with them? Sheer pointlessness. That's just not 'keeping it real'.

So. While I always have a few ideas that will keep conversations going in our group, I admit openly that I don't have any 'big plans' for us. A reading group is just a place to relax. To me, the 'groups' part of the Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ site are where we hang-out and goof-off; occasionally chat with some fellow-fans. We have no grand mission, or vision, or agenda. It's just a website. [If they develop Smell-o-Vision for the net someday, I will naturally upload my favorite odors for y'all to download, but for the time being, nope...]

We *do* give authors a place to promote their works and we *do* introduce new readers to the classics of the genre. We *do* have a group bookshelf. We try to keep this genre current and available to people; against the horrible tide of things like 'Twilight' or 'Vampire Academy'.

But other than that, I don't see this-little-playground-of-ours as a place where we, 'come to do work'. We already all have day-jobs, right? Reading itself is a pleasure for our leisure-hours; it gives us a break from our other burdens and responsibilities.

There are no obligations, performance-goals, or 'prerequisites' here. You can be a member here, even if you've only read one espionage book in your life; or even if you've read none.

That's the spirit in which I've been handling things.

Any thoughts?

I do like the pace of this group, good place to drop in every so often and say hi or what the other folks are reading.

I, too, am here primarily to learn about good stuff I haven't read. I find Feliks' reviews useful, and the notes from folks regarding what they've read. A slower pace of conversation is not a problem for me.

Glad to hear. Thanks

Feliks, where in the group can I recommend an epsionage author that I've enjoyed over the last year or so? Note: I have no ties to this author, I've never met the bloke, but he writes damn good spy books!

Hello Kev. This is a good question because maybe more people than just yourself, have been wondering how group-tools work.

There's a few things you might want to do.

a) add the book to our group bookshelf

b) in that same section (the bookshelf) suggest it as 'group read'. You will see that adding it to the bookshelf pops up a dialog where the 'start date' can be specified, members can be invited to join up for the read, and a discussion-area can be specified. Yep--all this can be done at the same time. If you have trouble, let me know.

c) Link us to your review of the book (we have a section called 'Links to Reviews'). Just make a new thread there in that section. It can be as simple as 'hey gang, here's my review of so-and-so's novel!'

d) finally--the simplest and most obvious: make a new thread discussing the book under the section called 'Recommendations'. In your new post, provide a link to the book page. See, when you make a new post, it asks you what section of the group discussion bins you want that chat placed in. Don't worry--if you make a mistake, I can move it to the right place.

Let me know how you get on.

Feliks

p.s. you can always message me for technical questions related to the group. If you've got something in mind, I'd certainly help implement

Thanks for your reply Feliks. I will follow one of your recommended methods when I get some free time.

Cphe: to respond to your request the authors name is Edward Wilson. Im not sure if his work is published in the US but is in the UK. As stated in the aforementioned paragraph, I'll give you some more information when I can.

Thanks again.

I am writing a Russia-USA espionage book. I would love to read novels in this area. Does anyone have suggestions? Many thanks. Happy New Year. Kent Hinckley

Good luck to you with a project like that. That is quite some ambition. Its a little mystifying to me though--why you would want to wade into something so inherently daunting. I mean to carry out such a project--and to make it really formidable--requires massive amounts of research, certainly. Deep and intensive research is the leading quality which would infuse your book with flair. Its what any such novel must have at the outset, its a necessary selling-point just to make the grade and get off the starting-line.

But even imagining you did such research--you would still need some authorial magic, some stroke of lightning, to make your book convince readers --as they give a quick glance at our cover/title--that you are offering them something powerful, new, and original. Those qualities attract sales.

Then too, your book would need to be written in a way which stuns people. Not an easy miracle to find, to say the least. Your writing skills would not merely need to match your research skills, they would need to be stellar. Because there's lots of aggressive authors out there you'd be competing with. And they are all taking a much easier route, to get reader's attention. They have bookcovers featuring men dangling from the rungs of helicopters and seaplanes.

So my question is this: why undertake such a book project which has so many hurdles and obstacles in the path ahead of it? I'm curious, why throw your heart into something which can only have a faint chance of attracting an audience, or sales? No matter how fine the resulting book might be, you would wind up self-publishing it on your own, right? Do you have a personal motive--some private story you feel you must bring to the world? That's certainly possible. And even, laudable. Even so--do you realize what you'd be letting yourself in for?

Even authors of highly-marketable 'fluff' tales these days--let's say, authors writing the hottest-selling concepts (vampires or werewolves, which needs no research at all) yes, even those authors suffer mightily just trying to sell a handful of copies. They expend enormous energy, dedicate their lives to their work, invest blood, sweat, & tears...and still their efforts still go unnoticed; even though they have already aligned themselves with the most popular market (teen readers).

'Good' spy novels...psychological, realistic works..unfortunately, this is truly an esoteric type of subject matter. The biggest market for spy/espionage books these days is characterized by preposterous, exaggerated, action-oriented types of tales.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from your goals, mind you--just giving you some thoughts off the top of my head. But it's a little like overhearing someone outline their idea for sailing around the world in a dinghy, or building a 4-lane highway without any help. Its a massive, enormous, outsized task any way you slice it.

Felix, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I agree with you that any writing effort is a daunting experience. I enjoy thrillers and espionage stories, and love to tell a story. The challenge I face is to develop a magical suspenseful story with action and penetrating words. Emotion needs to fit in there as well. As for the espionage aspect, I served in Intelligence in the Army and lived in Asia for five years which gave me an terrific perspective.

I don’t know if readers in this genre as you say are diminishing or not, but I’m assuming they comprise a large group and not just juvenile readers.

You asked what my personal motive is. Plain and simple, I enjoy suspenseful stories and enjoy the writing process. I’m tailoring the novel to appeal to readers of course, but in reality I am writing for me too. I self-published a Vietnam peace novel, “Hearts, Minds, and Coffee,� recently and it has received excellent reviews, so I am encouraged.

My structure, plot, etc. have benefitted by critiques from my story editor, and an agent has expressed interest to represent me, but until she sees the completed story, there are no guarantees.

The main thing is to enjoy the process, and I find if I focus on a coherent story, it translates to assisting me with coherency in my life � if that makes sense.

Thanks again for your thoughts. I appreciate all the info that I have received from this group. I have read books that I enjoyed but never heard of before. So Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ is working. All the best,

Well then! You have a much better 'foot under you', than I had at first surmised. You're far from a rank beginner. And if you have such a clear eye towards your goals then all I would expect you to grapple with are indeed these issues of 'ways and means'---technical and stylistic choices and dilemmas typically encountered in the course of one's project.

I can frame my advice to you--from now on, then--in a better mode. For instance: topical areas of Russian culture and tradition. References and study aids. Let me know...I can even steer you towards a few bits of history which have yet to be fictionalized..

Feliks, I'm not sure what kind of foot is under me, but I appreciate any recommendations as to Russian history mainly 20th century and if you know about anything cultural that is well written, I'm open. Many thanks for your help Best, Kent

Feliks, I'm a negligible communicator, but I have enjoyed lurking among this group's pages. I consider the manageable volume a positive quality, accordingly I vote for no major change. But yesterday's exchange between yourself and Kent suggested the need for a specific venue for potential authors to learn what readers may want from them.

For example, I like a pretty complex plot with good character development, an equivocal tone, and minimal (at most) elements of romance and "action". I particularly like a read that involves me in one or more foreign culture(s), historic or contemporary. I'm resisting the temptation to cite specific authors or works, but Kent's background in MI and his experience in Asia suggests that he may produce the sort of work I would enjoy.

Sub-Saharan Africa is another venue that I think could be fascinating for a story. What could be more interesting than an intelligently written narrative involving life and adventure in Idi Ami's Uganda, Patrice Lumumba's Congo, or the contemporary situations in Nigeria.

It might be interesting for active or potential authors to have a site indicating readers' interests. Sorry for rambling, Dave

That's not 'rambling' Dave. That's very useful input for me to hear. I wish more members would give their opinions.

The tips I gave to Kent were based on what I personally hear from authors in my current acquaintance. They are very frustrated with publishing as it stands these days. It is very tough to achieve sales--thus, the presence of so much author-self-promotion all over Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ.

You can also see what kinds of books readers are mainly seeking out by monitoring the 'Request for recommendations' section of this site. It is alarming, frankly. The way popular tastes seem to be running--rather like the equivalent of binge-watching tv series. Science fiction, supernatural romance, sexual fantasy, and fantasy predominate.

Whereas the readers a guy like Kent wants to reach--astute, mature readers such as yourself--are in the minority.

These are just my opinions of course, but I feel they're well-grounded and verifiable. Are you saying we should set up a thread to chat about all this kind of thing? I'm amenable to this idea. Something simple/easy like, 'what do you want from your reads?'

Please continue to add suggestions. Thanks Dave.

Hi Feliks.

So I spent last Sunday evening for an hour writing a fairly lengthy recommendation for the works of Edward Wilson only to click on post and lose the entire thing! I posted under the section 'recommendations' has you stated above but when I clicked post it said there was a problem and it deleted the whole post.

Oh awk! Sorry to hear!

But I can safely say that is not a problem related to our group. The issue lies either with your browser, your browser settings, your internet connection, something like that. There are no restrictions on posting new threads by members in any of our discussion sections. Such a feature doesn't even exist!

Tip: whenever writing a long block of text in a browser window, repeatedly 'save' the text out to a text file on your desktop. Because, you just never know. An internet connection can fail at any moment, right in the middle of a paragraph.

Nothing like the school of hard knocks..

Feliks, Just to let you know that I have entered Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ give aways for my book, "Hearts, Minds, and Coffee." The giveaway ends Jan 21. Best, Kent

Really! Well--good luck--is it a form of contest? I have to confess I don't know anything about Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ Giveaways. Is it like, being displayed somewhere on the site as a 'featured author'? What do you get out of it?

Feliks, My marketing company set me up 6 months ago and decided to do it again now. I'm surprised you haven't heard about it. It's a great Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ feature. It exposes books to readers in the genre who check it out via reviews etc. They sign up, and then Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ selects 10 people. To be honest, the people they select are those who write frequent reviews.

So readers get exposed to a book they might not find easily, the author benefits from the reviews. A win-win situation. I am not a tech savvy guy but I'm sure Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ has a place where these books/contests can be located. Last time, I received 548 people who signed up. Then I sent out the 10 copies to the winners and benefitted from their 4 and 5 star reviews. One still has to write a good novel, but it's another way to gain exposure. Have a good weekend. Best, Kent

Kev wrote: "Thanks for your reply Feliks. I will follow one of your recommended methods when I get some free time.

Cphe: to respond to your request the authors name is Edward Wilson. Im not s..."

Kev, following your recommendation I've already come to the third iteration of Edward Wilson's William Catesby novels.

They are excellent!

It is summer where I live and Wilson's novels (along with a classy Australian chardonnay and occasional interruptions from my children) on my back verandah in the gloaming light are boon companions. Thank you.

Steve I'm extremely jealous. Not only are you discovering these superb novels for the first time but you are bathed in sunshine! At the moment, in England, it's about 2 degrees in the day and minus 6 when I go to work!

Perfect

A little slower but of a similar style, Kev, is Aly Monroe. Check her/him out.

Dave makes a great point re: Africa. . .it is a largely untapped resource for espionage thriller authors.

And one with a lot of unique potential given China's increasing involvement in the region.

No problem Cphe. Glad you enjoyed it. I did the same as you actually and I still haven't read the first book in the series.

You should be onto the Midnight Swimmer next which is, in my opinion, his best book

Not a problem Cphe. Spread the word as this author really deserves a wider leadership. In the UK Charles Cummings spy books get a lot of attention but he's not a patch on Edward Wilson (IMO)

Cphe wrote: "I've already started it...Again thanks for the rec. I'm always on the lookout for new authors to try."
In that case, Cphe, you should give THE OLD SPOOK a try. The reviews by readers who know the genre have been uniformly favorable.

If we get just six more members we crack the 400 mark on our roster! This is impressive progress!

Hopefully a sign that we're doing something right.

As always, please air any suggestions you have. If there's things you see other GR groups doing (which we are NOT doing) feel free to suggest. I'm not on top of everything, of course--I don't pay much attention to all the stunts variously launched by other groups--so, I would be pleased to consider some new function/feature (which I have probably missed anyway!)

I'll take a look at my friends list and see who I can invite.

Thanks!

Looks like only mods can invite people, due to the settings of the group.

Feliks, how about a quarterly group read? A lot of other groups do group reads monthly which I think is a bit excessive. But one of the groups I'm in does a quarterly one which strikes a good balance and seems to get a high turnout.

What do you think?

That's not a bad idea. I too, get tired of all the BOTM mania. Good job Kev

Stephen, thanks for attempting a little networking for us. But it's alright anyway. We're getting a trickle of people every week or so. I hadn't known that our group settings restrict invites (I am going to investigate) but even if so, I'd rather not alter our privacy settings right now. Its not an ideal trade-off but ...eh..

This idea for quarterly reads, now. I'm mulling it over.

My concern is this: we set this all up and encourage people to go to a lot of effort (buying the book, making time in their schedule to read it) and...for what, exactly? A free-for-all chat? When everyone reaches the last page, can a lively discussion really be counted on to occur? Is that the payoff?

I'm just not sure it would come about. When I look at 'view counts' for threads I see usually '4 views' for any topic. Aka, when a new topic is posted, its 'looked at' 4 times total. We're just not all that busy around here--which is fine. But I'd hate to promise people something and then not be able to really offer it.

I don't know much about group reads, so if I'm misunderstanding the charm of it, someone please clue me in. Is it more like, you chat about the book as you go along? Do readers enjoy that?

It works out well in WWII and Napoleonic history. But there, we pick a theme--e.g., any book on Waterloo; a book on a Pacific WWII battle. Translating to espionage fiction you could (1) stick will authors with long résumés, and say "pick one by this author and comment" (truthfully, the excellent existing threads already accomplish much of this); or (2) suggest a single new release--which would require your wise selection to avoid clunkers.

I participated in 4 or 5 group reads a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it, but found that monthly was too frequent for me. About a month before a read was to begin the moderator would request recommendations, select 10 or 12 recommended books and submit them to the group for a vote. About half of the group would typically participate.

The discussion leader, usually, but not always, the mod, would plan a reading schedule, typically 1/4 of the book per week. A discussion thread was then opened for each of the weeks. The leader would usually provide a little background (the sort of info available from wikipedia) and open the threads for discussion.

This format works pretty well for nonfiction and general fiction, but I suspect it wouldn't be too cool for spy stuff that depends heavily on measured disclosures of both plot and character. Perhaps a 1-2 month free-for-all read, followe by a month of wide open discussion would be more appropriate for our genre.

Btw, if the group read idea goes forward, I'd like to suggest we do an occaisional nonfiction read.

Dave wrote: "I participated in 4 or 5 group reads a couple of years ago. I enjoyed it, but found that monthly was too frequent for me. About a month before a read was to begin the moderator would request recom..."

I quite like the sound of this TBH. Not too big a commitment. I think if you do something like this though, the title ought to be quite readily available to all and inexpensive, otherwise you risk putting people off before you start. No obscure, hard to find books please.

It sounds like one of our members who are actively-working authors might benefit by being involved. Perhaps by using their book or by being discussion leader. They'd surely have the energy required to run such a project. Meanwhile, readers would get the chance to quiz the author 'live' as they're reading his book.

Are there any contemporary books on our shelves right now which people are intrigued by?

Feliks, your 22 Feb 15 idea: "Working authors might benefit by being involved. Perhaps by using their book or by being discussion leader. They'd surely have the energy required to run such a project. Meanwhile, readers would get the chance to quiz the author 'live' as they're reading his book."

Did the idea simply die there, or do I more exploration to do?

Nope. This outfit never gained enough top-speed momentum to undertake these nobly-envisioned projects. Not unusual. Many groups--even very large groups on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ--are somnolent.

It kinda makes sense; and I don't chafe at the situation. More time spent yammering and nattering away in front of a monitor/keyboard; means less time actually reading books; or thinking; or leading a self-examined life. [This 'gossip culture' of the net makes me yearn for euthanasia].

Originally I was all for author-roundtables; but the ones I've observed since that interval, have truly been...disappointing. Authors these days tend to simply reel off a few programmatic self-promo blurbs--whenever you corner them--instead of actually conversing. I don't blame them, though. Many novelists are not academics after all--they are in business for themselves--and very few of them have 'time off' from their marketing duties to sit around and chat.

(You know...didn't someone once say that computers would give us all a lot more leisure time? And what about that much-vaunted communications revolution? Who actually talks to anyone any more with corny, outdated, human vocal chords?)

You wrote, "This 'gossip culture' of the net makes me yearn for euthanasia." That is a gem.

Much of what you wrote in the note above comments on "time." I'm an indie writer and much of that conversation is about authors who want to write a book a month. When I was a kid you read a book a month. Now people write while texting. How is that possible? Where do these 40,000-words-a-month writers get the time? It's just addiction, I think.

Actually, I think we're talking about conversation. Russell Baker comes to mind on the subject. He wrote, or quoted, really: "'Michael Oakeshott, the late British philosopher, thought conversation should have a distinctive lack of purpose. Conversation “has no determined course, we do not ask what it is ‘for,'� he said. It is “an unrehearsed intellectual adventure.� As with gambling, “its significance lies neither in winning nor in losing, but in wagering.'�

I don't know how you manage your time. I find it amazing—assuming you are Jeff Cohen—that you manage to be so attentive to the "conversation" here, considering all your other duties.

But, back to "conversation," which is strange stuff that's taken for granted. What is it we're doing here? Exchanging information? Engaging? Is conversation le Carre's locals in Layton talking? "'They found the blood, though, William,'" says Pete Pengely's younger brother Jacob, who got three A-levels. 'Bugger blood," says William Charles. "Drop of blood didn't never prove nothing.'" (I got lost in my quotation marks. Mable, get me re-write!) The "conversation" I've quoted here is so inbred, so everyday, it's almost claustrophobic, brilliantly written, though. It's conversation as speculation.

A conversation in "print" is so difficult and time consuming, especially when trying to organize thoughts on an unforgiving blot of pixels so that they make sense to a correspondent across cyberspace.

It's Mavis Bacon who's the oppressor here, not the failure of our vocal chords.