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For the Nov-Dec 2020 Sword & Sorcery groupreads, the topic will be Sword & Soul in honor of Charles R. Saunders's passing (by royal decree). The Poll will be used to help identify which books folks want to read and to help buddy groups form. Please add some options.

So Saunders will be a focus, but the sub-Genre he championed is all fair game. Including the works inspiring an HBO series for the Asuna works (Sebastian A. Jones) and all of Milton J. Davis's work too.

Link to Poll

Actually, this thread will turn into the folder, so if you want to get started early you can. Don't expect the banner until ~Nov 1st.

Sometimes finding the sequels to Imaro can be difficult.
Perhaps via Amazon or used books stores you can ... but keep mind that Charles R. Saunders (and his estate now) has them available via Lulu.

NOTE: they appear under two different versions of his name.

With the "R" ... at


Without the "R" ... at

Let's start with Imaro!
(Vol 1)

I'm doing my best to be helpful, by adding facts that might/might not be casually known. I've followed Saunders a while and am saddened he passed on before my works got enough recognition to talk to him as other than a 'fan'.


Saunders, a black man who happened to like Sword and Sorcery fiction (and I presume adventure fiction, science fiction) was a bit P.O'd by the stereotypes used casually - not even open racism with intent, rather casually. I bet a forward thinking writer who tried to escape the stereotypes would have been told "Uh, why DID you make up some complex culture for these natives the explorer encounters? Just have them with filed teeth, long arms and they are horrible cannibals he has fun shooting!" - even IF the writer was a woman and/or a non white person writing under an assumed name.


Note also he self-published a lot. Search Ebay for his name, especially "Weirdbook". The expansion/improvement of photocopier technology enabled the first 'print on demand' options and thus a lot of "Copybooks" were made. Saunders self-published in 'Zines a lot before DAW picked him up. I said this because most of us probably think of "Black" and other "non-mainstream" writers as barely literate / horrible storytellers that some clueless/ideology driven editor/publisher picked from a college but hadn't written anything before, wasting dead trees on "Stories of .... Written by ...." that SUCK but you don't want to say lest they shriek "Racist!" Well Saunders made his own stories that were good and he self-published in the Zine market with or without any 'big publisher' even touching him!

Another note is his "Die! Black Dog!" article - first published in "Toadstool Wine" one of the many copybook/zine/small press -.... where he did complain about stereotypes used - he got blasted for 'political correctness' over it but made it clear he hated the concept - like LEGIT "Old school" leftists he was NOT politically correct. For a better world, against racism and sexism, but NOT "PC". He was a bit sick of stereotypes though he tackled them, such as the truth behind some - Tarzan vs the Leopard Men he wrote an article about the truth behind the story that if made up completely might be horrifically racist.

I'm sure you know that Imaro is his "Conan" though not a "Clonan" - he really was making it opposed to Tarzan - he HATED the "Black Tarzan" line on the first ed of Imaro and was secretly glad when the Burroughs coffin feeders abused trademark on that issue.

Note also he changed his own work - the new Imaro has a different story "Slaves of the Giant-Kings" was in the original paperback while he replaced it with "The Afua" due to parallels to the later (1994) Rawandan Genocide ...

Finally - there's a neat blacklight poster - ...

I'm sure that's meant to be Imaro though likely not directly working with Saunders - but it's been reprinted including in a book of blacklight posters of the era

We've never pushed Go Fund me here, but in this case it makes sense to spread the word. Milton Davis is cohosting an effort to get Charles Saunders a tombstone








TEAM FUNDRAISER

Jon Tattrie and Milton Davis are organizing this fundraiser.

Created 1 hour ago

Funerals & Memorials

Charles R. Saunders was an important and beloved Black journalist and author based in Halifax, Canada.

He died alone in May 2020 during the pandemic lockdown and, as the medical examiner couldn't find any family, he was buried in an unmarked grave.

Word of his death was made public in September. 

We want to ensure everyone knows that his life mattered. He pioneered the literary genre of "sword and soul" with his Imaro novels, featuring an all-Black cast set in a mythologized Africa. 

We are a group of his friends, colleagues and fans who want to rectify the situation by purchasing a grave marker for Charles and an accompanying monument celebrating his literary life. 

We need to raise the money by the end of October to ensure we can put the monument by his grave. 

Those of us based in Nova Scotia - Sherri Borden Colley, Portia Clark, Paul Bacon and Jon Tattrie - will transfer the money Dartmouth Memorial Gardens to cover the costs of the grave marker and monument

A worthy cause, and a go fund me worth posting here. I’ll do what I can to help with the funding, and I’m sure many here will do the same. Every little bit helps. This S&S legend deserves the recognition, at the very least.

Well, October is "Black Speculative Fiction Month!"

And Milton Davis and Crew at MVmedia (Publishers of
Afrofuturism, Sword and Soul, Steamfunk and more!) have some sales going on.

Many are Sword & Soul of course. Good time to choose something for the Nov-Dec read.

I had the honor and privilege to help edit and proof Milton's novel, Changa's Safari back in 2011. I cherish his autographed copy which has an introduction by Charles Saunders about sword and soul. This was my first exposure to the genre and I'm always interested to see what MVmedia has in development.

Lyndon wrote: "I had the honor and privilege to help edit and proof Milton's novel, Changa's Safari back in 2011. I cherish his autographed copy which has an introduction by Charles Saunders about sword and soul...."

Lyndon, super cool. I didn't know you were involved with Milton & Changa's Safari. Thanks for sharing this.

Any others out there having some contact, indirect or direct, with Saunders?

Several years ago I mailed my copy of Imaro to Charles with a note asking if he would sign it for me. He did just that and it has a place of honor on my bookshelf as the only author autographed book I own. We exchanged pleasantries via email and he struck me as an incredibly polite and humble gentleman. I wish I had maintained that connection with him longer via email, but it was not meant to be, although I did read his blog regularly and enjoyed every word he posted. I wish I had taken the time to know him better.

S. Wagenaar, you are absolutely correct when you describe Charles as "an incredibly polite and humble gentleman." He and I corresponded regularly since 1977, when we were both still writing for the fanzines. Even if we missed a stretch, we always swapped Christmas cards with letters inside. I feel the world has a great deal of catching up to do in recognizing him as the talent and influence he was. It is infuriatingly heartbreaking that he passed the way he did, when he did. The world has a great deal of catching up to do in recognizing his talent and influence.

David wrote: "S. Wagenaar, you are absolutely correct when you describe Charles as "an incredibly polite and humble gentleman." He and I corresponded regularly since 1977, when we were both still writing for the..."

S. Wagenaar and David, appreciate the moving tributes.

Honoring the legacy, I'm reading The Quest for Cush now.

I’ve started reading Griots: A Sword & Soul Anthology, edited by Saunders and Milton J. Davis. I read some Saunders in the past (the Night Shade Books editions of the first two Imaro books) and enjoyed it thoroughly.

Apart from his name and that he is active in sword & soul, I wasn’t familiar with the work of Davis. I enjoyed the Changa story in this anthology, though, so I’ll probably seek out the novels at some point.

I’m going to use this group read as an excuse to chip away at the Saunders catalog. I hope to start The Quest for Cush today.

BTW, I read one of Davis�� Changa stories in an anthology this year. Good stuff

Started Imaro yesterday -- great stuff! I'm reading the Night Shade version; I know I read the original DAW paperbacks some years ago, but right now I couldn't tell you what was changed.

I’m a smidgen over half-way through The Quest for Cush. Thoughts so far:

Saunders works the classic REH Conan trope nicely into this Imaro book. In part one, Imaro enters his first city and is not at ease. He does not understand this civilized world and here he must revert from being the protector of Tanisha and Pomphis. When they leave Mwenni and enter the grasslands of the savannah, he converts back to the role of protector. He realizes he is not at home, and never can be as an exile (and outsider with his bastard/mysterious past).

I like this book better than the first volume. It has been two years since I read Imaro, but Saunders does a good job of catching the reader up.

I wish volumes 3 and 4 weren’t so darn hard to get my hands on.

TBH, the reason I'll probably be stopping with book 1 is because my copies of the revised later volumes would be hard to get my hands on -- I own them, but they're currently in a box [waves hands vaguely] somewhere, ever since I had to pack up a bunch of my books when we were doing renovations on my building.

EDIT: And the first book I'm reading on my Kindle.

@Clint
Check out lulu.com for copies

@Richard, I saw Lulu has book 3, but not book 4 ☹️

@Clint

It’s there search just Charles Saunders or by title The Naama War.

@Richard, by George you are right! A search for Charles R Saunders spits out books 1 and 3, a search for The Naama War produces the missing book. Thank you!

Clint wrote: "@Richard, by George you are right! A search for Charles R Saunders spits out books 1 and 3, a search for The Naama War produces the missing book. Thank you!"

Glad Richard bailed you out.

Yep, the issue is that Charles Saunders has two accounts on lulu...one with and one-without the middle initial "R"

@Seth, and now I remember you pointed that out before. My critical reading skills need criticism

Nice biography about Saunders posted

I finished the Quest for Cush. Review:

/review/show...

Clint wrote: "I finished the Quest for Cush. Review:
/review/show..."

@Clint, you going onto #3 The Trail of Bohu?

I'm still questing for Cush. It ramped up ~p75.

@Seth

Without giving anything away, you’re going to want book four handy if you don’t already.

@Seth, no. I must quest after copies of books 3 and 4. QfC is probably as far as I go for this read along. I might read Griots if I have time before year’s end.

In the introduction to Nyumbani Tales, Charles Saunders indicated there was unpublished Imaro tales (ie in 2017) that would be published in a book called The Warrior's Way.

I just reached out to Milton J. Davis if he had any status on this. Anyone here know?

@Seth, no, but I hope it materializes into existence

He also lists the uncollected Imaro stories in the second Dossouye book.

Richard wrote: "He also lists the uncollected Imaro stories in the second Dossouye book."

Milton replied re: the status: "It's complicated"

Okay, I read and reviewed The Quest for Cush:
/review/show...

One of these days I'll learn how to write a short review rather than a book report. So.. in short...I enjoyed it. I am compelled to read #3 and #4....and I even purchased Nyumbani Tales since I had to learn more about Imaro's mother.

Interesting Seth. I will seek out Nyumbani Tales for sure. I’m curious to read the new editions to see how many changes CRS made from the old DAWs I have.

Clint, do you already own the Nightshade editions too?

@Seth, no

Anyone wanting books from the Imaro series, lulu.com has a 30% off sale on print books!

@Richard, thank you for pointing that out

Richard wrote: "Anyone wanting books from the Imaro series, lulu.com has a 30% off sale on print books!"

Thanks for the update and I was wondering does the second in the Imaro series have a different name on Lulu Books.

lulu doesn't seem to have #2 .... but the Nightshade version is available on Amazon I think

S.E. wrote: "lulu doesn't seem to have #2 .... but the Nightshade version is available on Amazon I think"
Thanks. Book 2 is still available on Amazon.

Just finished The Trail of Bohu.
Review here: /review/show...

Key summary:
This third novel is a setup for last: The Naama War. The Trail of Bohu has considerably less action than Imaro and The Quest for Cush: Imaro II (the prior being comprised of short stories and this being the first full length novel). So far, Saunders has been building up two big plots: (1) Imaro's mysterious, ancestral origin, and (2) the burgeoning war between the united Northern tribes/nations (Cloud Strider and Cushite aligned) and the evil Naamans (Erriten, Mashataan sorceries). Here Saunders delivers mostly on the former, and quite comprehensively; the latter, reserved for the final book.

I prepared a guide to the series for BlackGate.com to be posted in a few days.

Ok, got the tour guide posted on Black Gate. It sorts out the publication history and chronology...and reveals a teaser about the unpublished anthology.

Seth, this is great. Thanks for doing this!

thanks David! I'm getting into Tour Guide making I guess. The Oron one was fun....and I did one for the Witcher which has a huge helpful rating on Amazon.

@Seth, nicely done

@Clint, thx!

BTW, Oron author and member David C. Smith just posted a good-bye letter to Saunders on Black Gate.



I didn’t know the 1986 Amazons movie was based on Saunder’s work(Agbewe’s Sword, Dossouye). The Roger Corman S&S movies always had great covers�� and campy production. I would love to see a serious take on Imaro.

I finished reading Griots, which was a fun anthology. The Imaro story at the end was definitely the highlight. Saunders was a giant.

My review is here:

/review/show...