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Every month we discuss a book on a specific era or a theme. This book will be the winner of a group poll.


Our November 2021 theme is Dystopian/Utopian fiction

If you feel inspired, please nominate a 20th century Dystopian or Utopian novel that you would like to read and discuss.

Please supply the title, author, a brief synopsis, and anything else you'd like to mention about the book, and why you think it might make a good book to discuss.

Happy nominating.

Here's some possible inspiration....








/list/show/7...

I'm mulling over a few choices.


Top of my list at the moment are....

Brave New World (1932)

A Clockwork Orange (1962

Both would be re-reads but it's been a few decades since I read either

What about you?

I'm struggling as my ideas are either books we've probably all read, books that fit but which I don't fancy, or are outside the twentieth century... hopefully I'll find something.

I've been wondering about Rose Macaulay's What Not which Huxley allegedly 'borrowed' from to write 'Brave New World. I also read an interesting, little-known dystopian novel Kallocain not long ago. I'm not sure if I'd want to nominate either of them though.

Nigeyb wrote: "I'm mulling over a few choices.


Top of my list at the moment are....

Brave New World (1932)

A Clockwork Orange (1962

Both would be re-reads but it's been a few dec..."

I haven't read either. I have meant to read the Wool trilogy for ages, but it isn't in our period and would be too long anyway. I will have a think about it, but would be keen to read one of the classics I haven't got around to reading before.

I've been thinking of Herland by Charlotte Perkins Gilman (who wrote The Yellow Wallpaper that we read a little while back). Written 1915, might be dated.

Also Fahrenheit 451 but the look inside didn't grab me.

Also The Midwich Cuckoos which I absolutely loved when we read it at school - might be a bit YA now?

And The Stepford Wives which is blackly funny and not subtle at all but enjoyable.

Does alternative history fit the dystopia category?

I think I am reading/or have 4 possible books - 1984 and Animal Farm by George Orwell, Herland and It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. Did we read the Lewis book here? Or was that in the old group?

Of these, I would nominate Animal Farm - relatively short. I've read it before but have not started reading it again ... yet.

I thought of The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin. It was published in the 70s.
It is part of a series though with books preceding it. Unsure of reading it as a stand-alone would be optimum.

I do want to read Fahrenheit 451 sometime.

Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban


Set roughly two thousand years after a nuclear war has devastated civilization, Hoban's novel draws on such well-known dystopias as A Clockwork Orange, Lord of the Flies, and A Canticle for Leibowitz; what is unique in Hoban's haunting vision of the future is his language which is described as being similar to the Nadsat slang spoken in Anthony Burgess' A Clockwork Orange. John Mullan of The Guardian praised Hoban's decision to narrate the novel in a devolved form of English: "The struggle with Riddley's language is what makes reading the book so absorbing, so completely possessing."

In 1994, American literary critic Harold Bloom included Riddley Walker in his list of works comprising the Western Canon.

Thanks all - some great suggestions and a couple of firm nominations


Nominations so far....

Animal Farm by George Orwell (Jan)
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban (Jonathan)

Roman Clodia wrote: "Does alternative history fit the dystopia category?"

I'm not sure. I'd say probably not. Thinking about The Man in the High Castle for example, it's clearly a worse future than the one we got but is it truly dystopian (or utopian). I'd say not but then again....? What the heck. If you want to nominate a vaguely dystopian alternate history then go for it RC.

I probably won't nominate this as I'm not sure how good it is, but I recently bought The Question Mark by Muriel Jaeger, published in 1926, which sounds quite interesting. It's a British Library reprint and has a science fiction element to it with a time traveller, "disgruntled office worker Guy", finding himself in a dystopian society 200 years ahead.

From the blurb, one intriguing element is that "each citizen is offered free education and a personal ‘power-box� granting access to communication, transportation and entertainment. "

Judy wrote:


"....each citizen is offered free education and a personal ‘power-box� granting access to communication, transportation and entertainment. "

Very prescient

Judy wrote: "I probably won't nominate this as I'm not sure how good it is, but I recently bought The Question Mark by Muriel Jaeger, published in 1926, which sounds quite inter..."

I've just borrowed The Question Mark so I'll be reading it within the next fortnight. I've been curiuos about this one for a long time.

Nigeyb wrote: "What the heck. If you want to nominate a vaguely dystopian alternate history then go for it RC."

Haha, thank you! So I'm nominating Farthing by Jo Walton, first part of an alternative history trilogy set in a Britain where the ruling classes have reached a rapprochement with Hitler in 1941, 8 years ago.

One summer weekend in 1949 � but not our 1949 � the well-connected "Farthing set", a group of upper-crust English families, enjoy a country retreat. Lucy is a minor daughter in one of those families; her parents were both leading figures in the group that overthrew Churchill and negotiated peace with Herr Hitler eight years before.

Despite her parents' evident disapproval, Lucy is married � happily � to a London Jew. It was therefore quite a surprise to Lucy when she and her husband David found themselves invited to the retreat. It's even more startling when, on the retreat's first night, a major politician of the Farthing set is found gruesomely murdered, with abundant signs that the killing was ritualistic.

Major political machinations are at stake, including an initiative in Parliament, supported by the Farthing set, to limit the right to vote to university graduates.

But whoever's behind the murder, and the frame-up, didn't reckon on the principal investigator from Scotland Yard being a man with very private reasons for sympathizing with outcasts� and looking beyond the obvious.

Nebula Award Nominee for Best Novel (2006),
Locus Award Nominee for Best SF Novel (2007),
John W. Campbell Memorial Award Nominee for Best Science Fiction Novel (2007),
Sidewise Award Nominee for Alternate History (2006)

Available on Kindle (currently 99p) and Audible.

The other books are Ha'penny and Half a Crown, together known as the Small Change trilogy.

Ooh, downloaded, RC!

Yes, I thought of you, Susan, as it seems to have a Christie-ish house-party vibe alongside the alternative history. I've got it too so maybe we could buddy read if it doesn't win?

Sounds good RC - thanks


After much chin stroking and weighing up, I am going for one of the big hitters....

Brave New World (1932) by Aldous Huxley

It has been many moons since I last read this. Probably in the 1970s as a callow youth. I was impressed then and feel confident it would stand up to further scrutiny here in 2021. There should be plenty to discuss too.

Here's some more information....

Ranked as one of the top dystopian novels of all time, the top 100 greatest novels of all time, and the novel was listed at number 87 in the BBC's Big Read survey.

Brave New World is a dystopian novel by English author Aldous Huxley, written in 1931 and published in 1932. Largely set in a futuristic World State, inhabited by genetically modified citizens and an intelligence-based social hierarchy, the novel anticipates huge scientific advancements in reproductive technology, sleep-learning, psychological manipulation and classical conditioning that are combined to make a dystopian society which is challenged by only a single individual: the story's protagonist.




Nominations so far....

Animal Farm by George Orwell (Jan)
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban (Jonathan)
Farthing by Jo Walton (Roman Clodia)
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (Nigeyb)

I like the sound of Farthing!

Roman Clodia wrote: "Yes, I thought of you, Susan, as it seems to have a Christie-ish house-party vibe alongside the alternative history. I've got it too so maybe we could buddy read if it doesn't win?"

Sounds good.

I have always wanted to read Brave New World too. Choices, choices...

Susan wrote: "Choices, choices..."

I know! There's lots to discuss in Brave New World, and I've somehow never read Animal Farm.

I have read Animal Farm, but many years ago. More than I'd care to admit to!

We read Animal Farm at school. Another of those we pulled to pieces until we were all sick of it. I have also read the other two, but Farthing sounds interesting.

Schools can ruin books. We did Pride & Prejudice for GCSE, but, luckily, the teacher was so hopeless the novel survived unscathed :)

Kit wrote: "I thought of The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin. It was published in the 70s.
It is part of a series though with books preceding it. Unsure of reading it as a stand-alone would be optimum.

I do ..."

Fahrenheit 451 is an annoying read I seem to remember, but the LeGuin is definitely worth reading, but so is pretty much anything by her imo, and it's fine as a stand-alone.

Jill wrote: "We read Animal Farm at school. Another of those we pulled to pieces until we were all sick of it. I have also read the other two, but Farthing sounds interesting."

Me too was one of those texts that seemed interminable despite its size, plus I get horribly emotional if I read anything that involves animals being mistreated, even allegorical ones! Although I think it's probably worth experiencing if only because it's referenced so frequently in other texts. I'm intrigued by the Jo Walton, love her Among Others but not sure about her prose style, I get the sense her books work best if the subject matter appeals.

I would love to reread Riddley Walker, so I won't nominate this time.

I read Animal Farm many years ago, too. Maybe now I am due for a re-read. It was at school.

Who else is nominating?


Or thinking about it?


Nominations so far....

Animal Farm by George Orwell (Jan)
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban (Jonathan)
Farthing by Jo Walton (Roman Clodia)
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (Nigeyb)

Not a huge number of nominations, but great choices. I suspect a close vote. I won't nominate this time.

I will throw in The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin. It is so lauded and more of a utopia novel I think. It might provide some strength and pointers? at a time when our earth is at a tipping point and we really need to get it together if we want to survive.

Incidentally I came across Ways of the Doomed by Moira McPartlin which sounds interesting. It is YA and written in 2015 though so unsure if it counts for this group.
I also would prefer to read The Dispossessed over it atm.

Kit wrote:



"I will throw in The Dispossessed (1974) by Ursula K. Le Guin. It is so lauded and more of a utopia novel I think. It might provide some strength and pointers? at a time when our earth is at a tipping point and we really need to get it together if we want to survive."

Thanks Kit - sounds very intriguing. Awash with awards and positive reviews


Who else is nominating?


Nominations so far....

Animal Farm by George Orwell (Jan)
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban (Jonathan)
Farthing by Jo Walton (Roman Clodia)
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (Nigeyb)
The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin (Kit)

Nothing from me. There are three on this list already that interest me.

Nothing from me either - I considered nominating a few books but decided against them as the ones already on the list appealed more.

Battle Royale by Koushun Takami came up as a recommendation on my feed. It is billed as a Japanese Lord of the Flies and apparently was a bestseller in Japan and looks to have good ratings. I have added it to my to read list!

I saw the film Kit - which is worth a look

Thanks all


I'll get the poll up later today

Watch this space

Nigeyb wrote: "I saw the film Kit - which is worth a look"

I agree a very arresting film.

Vote now...


/poll/show/2...


Nominations....

Animal Farm by George Orwell (Jan)
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban (Jonathan)
Farthing by Jo Walton (Roman Clodia)
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (Nigeyb)
The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin (Kit)

Thanks Nigey, can't decide what to vote for though! At least three I'm keen on reading/re-reading.

Tricky, tricky, tricky.....

Ha, yes - I suspect I'll be doing some vote changing once things get underway!

So Brave New World is in a commanding lead so far, and looks unstoppable! Do vote if you haven't already - it's good to see such enthusiasm for this theme.

Brave New World 19 votes, 41.3%
Animal Farm 10 votes, 21.7%
Riddley Walker 6 votes, 13.0%
Farthing (Small Change, #1) 6 votes, 13.0%
The Dispossessed (Hainish Cycle, #6) 5 votes, 10.9%

Re Battle Royale - oh they already went and made a film about it! I am way behind!

Yes, good to see so many votes and every book has a respectable amount.

Another 14 hours left to vote / change your vote....


/poll/show/2...


Nominations and current voting....

Brave New World by Aldous Huxley - 27 votes, 40.9%
Animal Farm by George Orwell - 14 votes, 21.2%
Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban - 10 votes, 15.2%
Farthing by Jo Walton - 8 votes, 12.1%
The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin - 7 votes, 10.6%

Thanks Nigey, Brave New World is so far ahead it doesn't seem worth it really, I don't have a problem with it winning in any case.

Looking forward to it, as I haven't read it before.

It has no chance of winning now, but Riddley Walker is well worth seeking out - a truly unique book written in an imaginary degraded post-apocalyptic version of English, and a lot easier to read than that might sound.