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One of the group reads for November is The Thirteenth Tale by Diane Setterfield. Please discuss the book in this thread.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have read the book before or during November 2021.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread. Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

A note on discussion: Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc.

In addition to this, the group reads are meant to be a "read along" so it is preferable that you discuss the book as you read rather than wait until you've finished the book.

And finally, discussion is not about just listing your thoughts. Please interact with the other group members, comment on their thoughts, and if they comment on yours, respond to them. This is what makes a good book discussion!

You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.

Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions. See our spoiler policy
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

@Saar - are you ok to lead this discussion as you nominated the book?

I read this one in 2014. Happy reading!

I read it in 2017. I remember I really enjoyed it, but that's about it..

I've read this one twice - first in 2015, then again in 2019 for my real life book club. I just picked it up from the library again to refresh my memory so I can discuss.

I own this one and I've wanted to read it for a while, I will probably start it today

@Sarah: no problem to lead it. I’ll have my copy today or Thursday.

I read the first chapter today. The letter is intriguing and I want to learn more about Vida Winters and Margaret. There's an integrity within that is masked by the story telling and the protective shield that they use to hide behind.

This is my review: /review/show...

I mentioned in the review that I would be interested in reading more of her work, but I haven't yet. I considered Once Upon a River, but it seemed like it was going lean more towards fantasy. I may still pick it up at some point.

This book has been on my tbr list for ages and I'm happy to read it now. Probably will start reading it tomorrow.

I've read the first two chapters, this is really appealing to book lovers. It's got me thinking of making a cozy reading spot instead of always reading in bed and falling asleep.

I've read the first 2 chapters and so far so good. Even if I'll end disliking this book in the end, I'm definitely checking out Setterfield's new book Once upon a River. She can write
"There is something about words. In expert hands, manipulated deftly, they take you prisoner. Wind themselves around your limbs like spider silk, and when you are so enthralled you cannot move, they pierce your skin, enter your blood, numb your thoughts. Inside you they work their magic."

My copy has 'Reading group notes'. And suggested further reading books.

Jane Eyre
The Woman in White
Wuthering Heights
Rebecca
The Turn of the Screw

I haven't read Eyre but all the other books makes me think we are going to read a classic gothic tale.

Anna wrote: "I've read the first 2 chapters and so far so good. Even if I'll end disliking this book in the end, I'm definitely checking out Setterfield's new book Once upon a River. She can write
"There is so..."

Why do you think you'll end up disliking this book?

Kristie wrote: "Anna wrote: "Why do you think you'll end up disliking this book?

I don't. So far I like it a lot.

Vicki wrote: "I've read the first two chapters, this is really appealing to book lovers. It's got me thinking of making a cozy reading spot instead of always reading in bed and falling asleep."

Yes!!! I hear you on that Vicki. I thought of setting up a cosy nook in my house too where I can snuggle up with a good book. Keep me posted on where you choose. I think it's the perfect time of the year to do it. It's starting to get cold here.

Oh good, Anna! Lol I think I just misunderstood your previous comment.

I would also love a cozy nook. I have a window bench in my house and started to set it up nicely, but my hubby ended up working from home and now uses that room as his office. Such a bummer. I could still go in there and use it, but it’s not nearly as cozy.

Kristie wrote: "I would also love a cozy nook. I have a window bench in my house and started to set it up nicely, but my hubby ended up working from home and now uses that room as his office. Such a bummer. I coul..."

You could use scented candles or an oil burner to change the atmosphere and make it more relaxing when your husband is not using it for work. Maybe spruce it up with a new cushion.

I have a new cushion, a couple of pillows, and a little book shelf, even a cute poster of Belle reading a book. The candle is a nice idea. I could put it on a little table that would be perfect for holding my tea. Then, I just need something to block out his work mess. lol Oh, and maybe a newer window to avoid winter drafts. Currently, my cat loves the area.

Tales of Change and Desperation (Thirteen Tales of Change and Desperation)
Betwixt and Between
Twice is Forever
Hauntings
Out of the Arc
Rules of Affliction
The Birthday Girl
The Puppet Show
What do the titles of Vida Winter's tell us about Vida Winter? (question taken from the 'reading group notes')

I think her first book Tales of Change and Desperation
(view spoiler)[chapter 5 Meeting Miss Winters. We found out that Winters used to be called Adeline March and she was 16 when she survived fire. It seems her twin sister died then. Is that one of the reasons why she changed her name? (hide spoiler)]

I think it could be noteworthy that her surname used to be March (Spring) and now it's Winter.

I just started the book and am on chapter 4. I currently don't have access to my computer, since we are back at the hotel waiting for our floors to be finished finally, so I can't write anything with spoilers and my phone is showing the spoilers.
Long story short...I am enjoying the book and am quite curious about what the "thirteenth tale" is all about.
Will write more this weekend once the office us set back up.

Kristie wrote: "This is my review: /review/show...

I mentioned in the review that I would be interested in reading more of her work, but I..."

I've read it a while ago and I can recommend it to you. It's fantasy indeed, but so much more than that.

I've started last Tuesday and I'm at the chapter where (view spoiler)[Margaret and miss Winter meet. (hide spoiler)]
I'm reading the Dutch translation, so maybe the chapter's titles can be a bit different. So far, I'm really liking it. I've got the feeling the same as Margaret: you open a book and you're hoocked on it. You forget the world around you. The author is a master with words and the love for books shine from the pages.

So far:
(view spoiler)[I wonder in what time/age the story takes place, because Margaret didn't know about the birth and death of her twin sister. She has a good relationship with her father, but her mother seems to be very fragile and not interested at all in the bookstore. It's like father and daughter have a secret compagny that they cover up with their bookstore, so they can find rare books. Why was her father so upset when the book of miss Winters was gone? Okay, it's a unique copy, but still...Miss Winter is so intriguing. It's interesting that you can talk about yourself, but that you cover that up in a story, but why so mysterious? (hide spoiler)]

Saar - The first 5 chapters in the English version are titled The Letter, Margaret's Story, Thirteen Tales, Arrival, and Meeting Miss Winter. Are yours different? It might be difficult for people to know where you are in the book if they have to click on a spoiler to find out.

Finished chapter Gardens

(view spoiler)[ Not a fan of creepy children doing creepy things. Didn't expect incest and child & animal abuse, thankfully non graphic. (hide spoiler)]

As for when the novel is set (view spoiler)[ has to be the 20th century. The March twins probably born in the first half of the century. 20s or 30s. Also Margaret didn't use Internet when she in the first chapters went to a library to find out more about Winters. And it can't be the 19th century as Dickens is mentioned as 'last century writer.' (hide spoiler)]

I was wondering when the story was set too. I agree with you Anna that it is the 20th century, but the details are vague. Setterfield mentions cars, cameras, lamps, but nothing distinct to pinpoint the exact time period. I even think that the present time line is later in the 20th century. Margaret is a little old fashion herself and may not choose modern technology like she doesn't read contemporary novels.

On pg 56, I've just finished "Meeting Miss Winter"

Anna wrote: "I think it could be noteworthy that her surname used to be March (Spring) and now it's Winter."

(view spoiler)[You're definitely onto something there. She claims her life ended before she changed her name. I think the name Vida is leaning more to the French influence- Void as well (hide spoiler)]

Time setting
I had not considered it. It doesn't feel that old but I think there are no cellphones or internet yet.

Siblings
(view spoiler)[ What does everyone think of the fact that they might both be lone twins? It seems almost magical that Miss Winter could have sensed that prior to meeting Margaret. Does she know? She couldn't.
Has Margaret confronted her parents, well her dad at least, about the other twin. Treating her reflection as her lost twin seems both mentally unstable and also totally natural at the same time. (hide spoiler)]

Kristie wrote: "Saar - The first 5 chapters in the English version are titled The Letter, Margaret's Story, Thirteen Tales, Arrival, and Meeting Miss Winter. Are yours different? It might be difficult for people t..."

No, they aren't for now. I've tried to find the English chapters on google, but nothing. I'm now at 'Meeting Miss Winter'. I suppose there won't be a difference.

Vicki wrote: "On pg 56, I've just finished "Meeting Miss Winter"

Anna wrote: "I think it could be noteworthy that her surname used to be March (Spring) and now it's Winter."

[spoilers removed]

Time setting
I ..."

@Vicky: That's interesting.
Names: (view spoiler)['Vida' also means 'life'. Could it be that her first name stands for the period that she lived, maybe another life, and her last name 'Winter' stands for the ending of her life, the changing? (hide spoiler)]
Siblings:
(view spoiler)[How did Miss Winters knew to get a reaction like that from Margaret, when she asked her about the ghosts? Margaret sees her twin sister in her shades, in the mirror...That's of course normal, but is she a bit superstitious? I don't think Margaret is mentally unstable, more curious about her twin sister and a bit lost. For now, she hasn't asked her parents about her and certainly not her mother. (hide spoiler)]

@Anna:
Time setting: never thought of that, but indeed, the library is the place for the answers.

Why did Miss Winter asked Margaret to be her biopgrapher?
(view spoiler)[Margaret is a woman who likes the old novels: The reason is simple: I prefer proper endings. Marriages and deaths, noble sacrifices and miraculous restorations, tragic separations and unhoped-for reunions, great falls and dreams fulfilled; these, in my view, constitute an ending worth the wait. Being Miss Winter's biographer might bring her out of her comfort zone. The reason of the choice makes me curious. Could they be related somehow, because the reason about the biography of Laundier couldn't be only that. (hide spoiler)]

I'll continue this evening, after work. Can't wait!

Finished Five Notes

(view spoiler)[ the twins were 13 when they stole a pram with the baby. I though that they were much younger. I feel bad how neglected they were.
Hester seems god send but we know that it doesn't end well for the March sisters. I highly doubt that the fire was an accident and that Charles went abroad.
The book is tagged as "fantasy" on main page so I'm half expecting that ghosts might be real. (hide spoiler)]

Why did Miss Winter asked Margaret to be her biopgrapher?
Good question. I wouldn't be surprised if (view spoiler)[ Margaret is somehow related to Angelfield. I don't know how. Perhaps Charles is her grandfather? Maybe one of the women he raped had his child? I have feeling that Winters knows something about Margaret's family (hide spoiler)]

Anna wrote: "Finished chapter Gardens

[spoilers removed]

As for when the novel is set [spoilers removed]"

I agree, Anna. I was not expecting (view spoiler)[ the topic of in incest or sadism in the book. It really threw me for a bit. (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "On pg 56, I've just finished "Meeting Miss Winter"

Time setting
I ..."

With regards to your comment on "siblings" (view spoiler)[I was wondering if Ms. Winter new about Margaret indirectly through her father. Her father finds rare books for collectors and and Ms. Winter collects Jane Eyre books. (hide spoiler)] I may be very off track with that thought :)

I finished through the section "titled "Beginnings" which would be page 141 or ending with the chapter titled "Graves."
All I can say is (view spoiler)[ these are two very creep kids. I don't think they are Roland March's children. I think this line of strangeness runs through the family and we see the start when George Angelfield becomes violent and doesn't remember hurting Isabelle. I thought maybe if the mother had survived things would be different, but Charles had been neglected prior to her death - maybe there was a bit of crazy on her side too.

I really like Aurelius. he seems like a sweet man. I think he will be important to the story. His age is roughly around 60. Could he be the child of one of twins? (hide spoiler)]

Finished Underwater Cryptography

(view spoiler)[ As expected Aurelius is releated to Angelfield. I can't say that I believe that Adeline could change so fast from a wild girl to girl outwitting doctor and solictor.

I want to know what happened to Hester. And who was the child she saw? And who were the girls she mistook for the March twins.

Since the story is so melodramatic I wasn't surprised (view spoiler)[that Emmeline is alive. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

On pg 88, finished "Gardens"

(view spoiler)[What a horrible family and horrible children. The gardener and housekeeper are saints to have stayed. I did like the notion that the twins might regard average people as amputees because they are missing a twin of themselves. I imagine our biographer might dwell on this thought a bit. (hide spoiler)]

I was up late last night and finished the book. (view spoiler)[ I really enjoyed this book. I did wonder quite a bit about what happened to Hester, but like what Ms. Winter said she is just a secondary character not important, but I'm glad they didn't kill her.
I liked the plot twist of there being a third child who everyone thought was a ghost, and the results of the fire where we don't really know who survived at least I don't think it was ever stated. I'm glad there was closure for Auerilus and for Margaret (hide spoiler)]

I will continue to comment as more people read further in the book.

I'v finished the chapter 'Dicken' studyroom'. (I hope it's the same title as in Dutch):
(view spoiler)[I had no idea that things would escalate with Charlie and Isabelle. I can understand the grief the father had, but he put Isabelle on a pedestal, like she was his whole world. Who let a 3 - year old run the household? I wonder why Charlie was already neglected. The twins are like sociopaths and it's charateristic for that they begin with hurting animals and then with hurting humans, like Charlie did. I wonder what would have happened to Charlie and Isabelle if Miss Dunne and Mr. Digence weren't there to take care of them. They did their best they've could and I understand that Digence was heartbroken about his garden. That was his life. The people of the town should have interfered sooner than that. The doctor was ment to visit the household, but instead he let his wife go. Couldn't he go himself instead of letting her go? Then she wouldn't ge attacked. It was a smart decission to send Isabelle to an institution, but maybe he needed to do more than that: send Charlie to one too and foster the twins or something. In the chapter about the painting from Dickens, mrs. Winter talked about characters flying around her head, waiting to get their places in her stories and then dissapear in the air when they finally did. I found that really beautifully written. Maragaret is now searching for some recognition points in a painting of Roland, but it's just obvious that Charlie is the father of the twins. (hide spoiler)]

Also, have you noticed that there are a lot of resemblances between Margaret and mrs. Winter?
(view spoiler)[
- They are both twins, with a lost sister.
- They have an affinity with books.
- Maraget writes biographies and mrs. Winter stories.
- Both had issues with their mother.

Also, was Margaret part of a Siamese twin? She keeps feeling on a little scar on her torso. (hide spoiler)]

Anna wrote: "Finished chapter Gardens

[spoilers removed]

As for when the novel is set [spoilers removed]"

Indeed, (view spoiler)[it makes it more creepy if it's not graphic, but more between the lines. (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "On pg 88, finished "Gardens"

[spoilers removed]"

I agree on your thoughts, but (view spoiler)[in the old times twins were seen as 'unnatural'. Very strange... (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "Vicki wrote: "On pg 56, I've just finished "Meeting Miss Winter"

Time setting
I ..."

With regards to your comment on "siblings" [spoilers removed] I may be very off track with that thought :)"

No, I think (view spoiler)[you're having a good thought about that and maybe there can be a connection. Also, because Margaret's fathers was so in panic when the book seems to got missed. (hide spoiler)]

Saar The Book owl wrote: "I'v finished the chapter 'Dicken' studyroom'. (I hope it's the same title as in Dutch):
[spoilers removed]

Also, have you noticed that there are a lot of resemblances between Margaret and mrs. Win..."
Good catch Saar. I didn't pick-up on (view spoiler)[Margaret rubbing her scar. Her being a Siamese twin would make a lot of sense on why she is feeling the lose of a twin that she never really knew so deeply (hide spoiler)]

Yes, my thoughts exactly :)

I am on pg 140 just finished The Friendly Giant

(view spoiler)[ This chapter was so bizarre to me, like it came out of nowhere. Like we were meeting a character from a Miss Winter story.

Legally declared Dead. I suspect that Charlie was not abroad when this fire started. I'm also leaning towards not an accident. Hopefully, we will learn more I am intrigued.

I never noticed her touching a scar! Good catch I will have to look out for it now. (hide spoiler)]

I finished the book yesterday. Liked it a lot.

(view spoiler)[ I didn't expect a third child. And it seems that when Hester spoke that occasionally Adeline shows intelligence it was the third girl BUT how she couldn't tell them apart? (hide spoiler)]

Ambrose (view spoiler)[ I don't like him at all. I don't care that Emmeline fancied him he used her to spite Winters. As if that's not bad enough Emmeline had some learning disabilities. (hide spoiler)]

Hester (view spoiler)[ so happy that she was ok. And even married Doctor Maudsley. (hide spoiler)]

Flu (view spoiler)[ since Isabella and Mrs Maudsley died from flu could it be the Spanish flu? Just a thought. (hide spoiler)]

Bones (view spoiler)[ I got impression that Adeline survived. I'm not 100% sure tho. (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "I am on pg 140 just finished The Friendly Giant
Like we were meeting a character from a Miss Winter story."

Or The BFG

Anna wrote: "Vicki wrote: "I am on pg 140 just finished The Friendly Giant
Like we were meeting a character from a Miss Winter story."

Or The BFG"

Yes exactly, this has me wondering about (view spoiler)[ The Thirteenth Tale and how we will learn of it. Almost like miss Lea will experience it or be the protagonist in it. I might be thinking this book is more magical than it is (hide spoiler)]

Re scars end of chapter "Graves"

(view spoiler)[Margaret is having a dream and wonders about what she is about to join-or rejoin herself to!!!
I think we're on to something (hide spoiler)]

Finished The Experiment pg 184

(view spoiler)[ I keep wondering at how the wild and mute child Adeline becomes the most famous author in the world. This experiment does not sound good though I am fond of both Hester and the doctor and enjoy their friendship. Hester is already quite impressive as a governess, but she's studued medicine on top of that. I hope Margaret is able to track her down and meet her (hide spoiler)]

I started today. I'm on my phone so I can't do spoilers but I will say that I love the atmosphere she creates with her words and so far the book really speaks to the book lover in me!
I've always wanted a little window nook for reading!

I own this one and it's been on my TBR a long time! Hoping to join you all starting this weekend. Husband is traveling for work, so no one to distract me from curling up with the cats, some coffee and reading.