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One of the group reads for May is The Golem and the Jinni by Helene Wecker. Please discuss the book in this thread.

Tammy will be leading the discussion.

In order to receive a badge you must:
1. have read the book before or during May 2022.
2. discussed it in this thread. Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc. You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread. Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.
3. Report that you have read AND discussed the book in the reporting thread (include a brief summary of what you thought of the book).

A note on discussion: Discussion must be more than "I read the book and I liked it". Discussion requires something more substantial and analytical of what you read, for example, thoughts, opinions, impact it had on you, what was your favourite part, was it what you expected it to be like etc.

In addition to this, the group reads are meant to be a "read along" so it is preferable that you discuss the book as you read rather than wait until you've finished the book.

And finally, discussion is not about just listing your thoughts. Please interact with the other group members, comment on their thoughts, and if they comment on yours, respond to them. This is what makes a good book discussion!

You may also like to review the book and post a link to the review in this thread.

Please refer to our group spoiler policy for further information.

General Rules:
1. Please mark your spoilers with the spoiler tags along with mentioning what stage of the book you are at so other's don't get a nasty shock. Chapter numbers/titles are generally best as they are the same across all formats and editions. See our spoiler policy
2. The book may be combined with the Year Long Challenge, Topplers, and Monthly Challenges.

Happy reading!

Happy to be leading the discussion for this book. Anyone start it yet?

I own this one on audio, but I think it will be too long for me to fit in this month. It is 19 hours and 42 minutes. If I am able to get to it, it will likely be towards the end of the month.

I'm planning on starting in the next day or so. I own this one so that's a bonus.

I had no idea what a Golem or a Jinni was. Chapters 1 and 2 gave me some education!

Tammy wrote: "I had no idea what a Golem or a Jinni was. Chapters 1 and 2 gave me some education!"

I have just finished ch 2
Those are some good introductory chapters. I'm invested in each character already. (view spoiler)[I'm glad we won't have to read anymore about that creepy guy but I am sorry our golem is so traumatized without her master.
So now we have 2 different non humans that look like humans. Hmm. (hide spoiler)]

Finished ch 4

(view spoiler)[I like how the rabbi compared the biblical figures to children following their desires and learning from them since there was no precedence for anything. I have never given them much thought.

I don't know what to make of the other rabbi-sorceror. He threw away his life on a dream (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "Tammy wrote: "I had no idea what a Golem or a Jinni was. Chapters 1 and 2 gave me some education!"

I have just finished ch 2
Those are some good introductory chapters. I'm invested in each charact..."

I too am invested in the characters and wondering about their futures.

Vicki wrote: "Finished ch 4

I like how the rabbi compared the biblical figures to children following their desires and learning from them since there was no precedence for anything. I have never given them much..."

(view spoiler)[ It was a very simplistic way to explain it. A good educational tool for those who have no knowledge of Biblical history and the story of man. (hide spoiler)]

Can you (view spoiler)[ imagine being thrown into a culture you know nothing about? It would be so disorienting. Especially to the Golem, who has no frame of reference to anything. I also can imagine how disorienting it would be to "hear" other's thoughts. (hide spoiler)]

I started this one today. I got the audiobook from the library so I'll have to be quick with it! I am also starting the Wheel of Time buddy read this weekend so it'll be some chuncksters in my life for a minute!
I am through ch 4 (view spoiler)[ I agree with everyone that the opening chapters are very good at immediately connecting you with our two fantastical main characters. I am so glad that our golem didn't end up having to spend too much time with her creepy master.
I loved the philosophical discussions she has with the Rabbi about both humans and the Bible. The idea is interesting to ponder of being a creature created to obey who can read thoughts/desires when for most of society to function we tamp down many desires in order to make a more liveable society.
I look forward to getting to know our Jinni a bit more. Interesting that he was so interested in mankind. (hide spoiler)]

On a side note - I didn't check out who the audio narrator was before starting the book and was so happy that it is George Guidall. I love him as a fantasy narrator especially.

I am through ch 11 now. (view spoiler)[ I feel so bad for poor Chava. Now she is adrift again without her Rabbi. Again I thought the philosophical questions were interesting as the Rabbi debated what to do with Chava after his death. He couldn't destroy her, but he also didn't want to just give her over to a master and have her will completely controlled - but a golem's imperative to obey so to leave her alone and rudderless might not be a kindness either. I thought his solution of giving her the choice to bind herself was a pretty good one.
Now Ahmad and Chava have met. They both were able to recognize each other's true natures. I look forward to their meeting again. (hide spoiler)]

I have just started reading this book. Thus far I can say that I really like the writing. The prose is really quite lovely and I was drawn into the book right away.

There are a few things I found quite interesting about the Golem

Ch. 1
(view spoiler)[ The whole creation of the golem had a sort of Frankenstein like feel to it. I was also quite intrigued by the idea of creating specifically a female golem. Golems are usually portrayed as being generally non-gendered but with a tendency to be more masculine in nature. And the fact that she was made self-aware and intelligent is reflective of the portrayal of AI in a lot of sci-fy. It does beg the question of what it truly means to be “human� and a living creature.

I am quite curious to see how her character grows and evolves. Does she find a new purpose? Dose she learn to live independently and for herself or does she get drawn to someone whose need and desire is strong enough to bind her to them as a new master?<\spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

Silver wrote: "I have just started reading this book. Thus far I can say that I really like the writing. The prose is really quite lovely and I was drawn into the book right away.

There are a few things I found..."

Such good thoughts. Had you heard of Golem before reading the book?

Tammy wrote: "Silver wrote: "I have just started reading this book. Thus far I can say that I really like the writing. The prose is really quite lovely and I was drawn into the book right away.

There are a few..."

Yes I was familiar with the concept of the golem. I love mythology and study myths and legends from various cultures and have come across golems in other books I have read.

Ch. 2-3

(view spoiler)[ I quite enjoyed learning more about the back story of the Jinni. I do find him to be a rather interesting and amusing character. As thus far the golem’s story is really quite a sad one I am glad for the bit of humor brought out between Arbeely and the Jinni.

I am glad that the golem found the Rabbi, someone who understands and accepts her and will hopefully be able to help her find her way in life. (hide spoiler)]

On a random side note when I first started the book (and knew the basic gist of what it was about) the first thing that popped into my head was Golem/Jinni road trip.

For anyone who knows the mischievousness of Jinnis and the volatile unpredictability of golems I was secretly hoping the sequel would be a cross country road trip.

Silver- that should be a show! I'd watch it!

I am in my trailer down at the farm so I don't have internet other than my phone so I can't post spoilers but I am trying to jot down notes on my phone to comment when I get back in town

I read through chapter 6

On the writing and charactes (view spoiler)[ I am enjoying the thorough backstories of some of these other characters like the ice cream man. I'm not sure yet if he will be an important character or if everyone is going to get their story told. I am guessing he is possesed by an ifrit or ghoul and the jinni may be able to do something about it. On the other hand we may never see him again. A sad story that was.

I wonder if the nephew will be a love interest for our golem.

The only issue I've found is that the perspective seems to change in the middle of a section and I've been surprised whose pov I'm reading. It's been minor though. (hide spoiler)]

Silver wrote: "Tammy wrote: "Silver wrote: "I have just started reading this book. Thus far I can say that I really like the writing. The prose is really quite lovely and I was drawn into the book right away.

T..."

Very interesting. Guess my "mythology" reading needs to bump up a bit ;)

Vicki wrote: "I read through chapter 6

On the writing and charactes I am enjoying the thorough backstories of some of these other characters like the ice cream man. I'm not sure yet if he will be an important ..."

I wonder too where all these characters are going to meld

Chapter 4

Some thoughts about Schaalamn

(view spoiler)[ In reading about the account of his life, the legend of
"The Wandering Jew'" came to mind.

The myth of the wandering Jew first appeared in the 13th century. The original story was that he was a man whom did some insult to Jesus on his way to crucifixion and thus was cursed to wander the earth until the second coming.

Stories about the Wandering Jew began to spread across Europe and eventually in the Americas. In literature he would often appear as a strange mystical man usually to offer some guidance or counsel.

He is also sometimes seen as someone who has forsaken his belief in order to pursue wealth, ambition, power, etc.. (hide spoiler)]

Silver wrote: "Chapter 4

Some thoughts about Schaalamn

In reading about the account of his life, the legend of
"The Wandering Jew'" came to mind.

The myth of the wandering Jew first appeared in the 13th cent..."
Cool connection! I didn't think about that.

Ch 13 (view spoiler)[I never really thought about the difference between the golem's master and the jinni's master - that the golem was created to serve but the Jinni are subjugated against their will.
Someone else can see the jinni's nature (hide spoiler)]

Ch 16 (view spoiler)[ I am really enjoying the golem and jinni talks. Their natures aren't exactly opposites which would make them clash too much but they are different enough that they can make each other think.  I especially liked their discussion about being made to do things and Chava was just like - well that's not your fault if someone forced you to do it and Ahmad brought up how she would feel if a master forced her to kill everyone at the bakery. I also hadn't thought about how he is several hundred years old in his memories and like 1000? years old really while she had only been alive months. I really like the way the author sets up contradictions. Also the whole Jewish and Arab dichotomy is another way she sets up contradictions. (hide spoiler)] I am enjoying the book!

ch 19 (view spoiler)[poor Chava! I was worried when she was having such a fantastic night at the dance hall that something terrible was about to happen. I wonder if Anna really did see what happened. All things considered marrying Michael isn't the worst thing Chava could do. And now Ahmad has her spell. (hide spoiler)]

Now I am about half way through ch 24 (view spoiler)[ Well Anna did see what Chava did and now is blackmailing Ahmad. I would like to believe her when she says that she only wants enough to see her through the birth of her baby but that isn't usually how blackmail ends up working...
Michael has found out what Chava is. I feel bad for both of them. I am interested to see how Chava is going to deal with Schaalamn now that she knows who is is. (hide spoiler)]
Things are getting intense!

I just finished chapter 10 and I (view spoiler)[ am feeling so torn about the decisions the Rabbi thinks he needs to make. It seems he love the Golem and wonders about her spiritual self, but because of his past experience with golems, knows the future could be disastrous. Is it his decision to make? Can the inanimate object have a spiritual component? Is it for the Golem to not live her life?? So many questions. (hide spoiler)]

Silver wrote: "Chapter 4

Some thoughts about Schaalamn


Interesting, I'll have to look at that

Tammy wrote: "I just finished chapter 10 and I [spoilers removed]"

I think my favorite thing about this book is how it has the characters wrestle with various philosophical questions like that.

ch 25 (view spoiler)[ Wow! Poor Jinni! Being forced to kill because of another's will reminds me of another Djinn character from the Daevabad trilogy I read with the group last year and this. One of the characters was an enslaved djinn who had to deal with memories of atrocities he was forced to commit while enslaved. It really sheds some more light on the convo Ahmad had with Chava earlier about being enslaved to another's will. The questions he was asking her were not just rhetorical - he knew exactly what it felt like to kill someone you cared about against your will.

I also always kinda pictured a Jinni's bottle as more like "I Dream of Genie" style where it was like a house in a bottle, but Ahmad's capture in the flask was horrible for him!

Also, I was wondering if there was a connection between Schaalamn and the the person who captured the Jinni, but they way the book sties that together was unexpected! (hide spoiler)]

Katrisa wrote: "Tammy wrote: "I just finished chapter 10 and I [spoilers removed]"

I think my favorite thing about this book is how it has the characters wrestle with various philosophical questions like that."

It's a great reminder that we all wrestle with these types of questions.

Tammy wrote: "I just finished chapter 10 and I [spoilers removed]"

Yes this was quite tough. (view spoiler)[I keep thinking how lucky she was to find such a kind and patient friend in the rabbi (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "Tammy wrote: "I just finished chapter 10 and I [spoilers removed]"

Yes this was quite tough. [spoilers removed]"

Yes, so many unsavory peeps out there.

Katrisa wrote: "Ch 13 ..."

Chapter 13

(view spoiler)[Yes, they are such different creatures, one born to serve the other enslaved. I am glad our arrogant jinni could recognize this and not say anything too offensive. Of course my own human nature values freedom and I think the golem is doing just fine without a master! I wonder if she would have chosen to bind herself again. Her only struggle is society's restrictions on women.

That was exciting that the ice cream man confronted the jinni. I for a second thought he would murder him right there! So he's cursed to see people's death's in their faces? I had thought the jinni might recognize something in him but I guess not.

And chapter 12. I don't think I realized what a villain this Shaalman is until what he did to that poor man! I am excited to see how he shakes up this story. (hide spoiler)]

chapter 17

(view spoiler)[Is the jinni falling in love with our golem? I thought it would take more for this to happen (hide spoiler)]

Also, (view spoiler)[ I am reading this with my spouse and he has a theory that since Chava was frankenstein'ed together that maybe her soul is from Fatima, the Bedouin girl the jinni fancied. This seems very improbable to me but if he is falling in love then who knows (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "Katrisa wrote: "Ch 13 ..."

Chapter 13

Yes, they are such different creatures, one born to serve the other enslaved. I am glad our arrogant jinni could recognize this and not say anything too offe..."

I'm so glad (view spoiler)[ the Jinni and the Golem met. I have been assuming they would. I thought they may have a love interest, but it's not looking that way. I like how they have been supporting each other, even though the Golem seems hesitant. (hide spoiler)]

Vicki wrote: "chapter 17

[spoilers removed]

Also, [spoilers removed]"

Darn it, why did I read your spoiler before I got to the chapter.

Tammy wrote: "Vicki wrote: "chapter 17

[spoilers removed]

Also, [spoilers removed]"

Darn it, why did I read your spoiler before I got to the chapter."

Haha, yeah don't do that!
I was amused when I read your chapter 13 spoiler.
I'm not entirely sure anyways!

Tammy wrote: "Vicki wrote: "Katrisa wrote: "Ch 13 ..."

Chapter 13
..."

Yes watching the relationship develop was not quite what I expecting, but I liked it better. (view spoiler)[ They are developing a genuine affection for each other and I like that the book is going there instead of a head over heels romance like Ahmad usually has. They develop a friendship based on exploring each other's very different natures and coming to new understandings about their own views - which I think is the best kind of relationship - romantic or not! (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 20 🤪 shocking!

I'm finished and would love to know what other's thought of the ending?

I see you gave it 5 stars Tammy! nice! I haven't had any time to read lately, too much yard work, but it is supposed to rain all weekend so I should finish it soon

Vicki wrote: "I see you gave it 5 stars Tammy! nice! I haven't had any time to read lately, too much yard work, but it is supposed to rain all weekend so I should finish it soon"

May you have rain all weekend!

Tammy wrote: "I'm finished and would love to know what other's thought of the ending?"

Ending (view spoiler)[ That ending was intense! I felt so bad for all our MCs. Of course Chava would trade her freedom for Anna's. It was satisfying that Shaalman got trapped in the flask - he was the worst! I immediately put a hold on book 2 as soon as I was done with this one. In fact it just came in so I'll probably be starting that one next week. I am assuming that book 2 has to do with Shaalman escaping from the jinn - but I haven't read the blurb or anything yet. (hide spoiler)]

Katrisa wrote: "ch 25 ..."

Yes, reading the Daevabad trilogy definitely helped with understanding the jinni's side of the story. And I learned a lot about golems while reading Iron Council. Fun how books overlap like that

Ch 25. (view spoiler)[probably a good thing the jinni supressed those memories! Was very fitting the shaman died just after capturing him. Now they are finally reunited! Oh no, this cannot be good. The jinni is so trapped. I also hadnt expected the reincarnation thing but it works well. I love how he healed ice cream Salem as it was a mere obstacle (hide spoiler)] looking forward to what happens now..

Katrisa wrote: "Tammy wrote: "I'm finished and would love to know what other's thought of the ending?"

Ending [spoilers removed]"

I'd be interested to hear how you like the next book. It doesn't seem like it needed a sequel.

Regarding the ending

(view spoiler)[ I had expected Chava at the end to go off into the desert searching for the jinni with only the image of the map from the ceiling lol

I'm sad that Matthew and the jinni parted. So sad about ice cream Saleh. I think he might have been my favorite.

Chava's position is pretty weird now. She is content to let her master be imprisoned and taken away from her like that? I did like that he got trapped. Though I also thought he wasn't that bad. Considering his master plan was for Chava to convince his next selves to have happy lives. Seemed like a good plan to me though I do not like the idea of him having a jinni under his control. Although trapped in human form it seemed he didn't really have much power. I like how he met up with his people and they took the flask. That seemed like a great idea. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[ Also Sophia seems pretty happy but the jinni really messed up her life, as she seems almost crippled from that ordeal.
(hide spoiler)]

All in all I especially loved the writing. It was so calmed and flowing I just enjoyed reading this book.