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Hello fellow Fairy Tale readers,


Welcome to our discussion about Nutcracker by E.T.A. Hoffmann, your discussion leader is Lisa.
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about spoilers

Please note: If you have not finished reading the book spoilers are permitted in this discussion from the start. If you would like to use the spoiler formatting it can be found on the top right of the comment box in the "(some html is ok)" menu.
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Summary

Before the birth of the ballet, there was the book.

On Christmas Eve, Fritz and Marie await the arrival of Godfather Drosselmeier and the marvelous gifts he brings for them every year. Among the presents, Marie discovers a curious Nutcracker doll and is transported into a magical world of sugar-frosted castles and chocolate kings were her favorite toy battles the nefarious Mouse King in a battle that takes the reader on an adventure into a magical land of dolls & toys.

The tale of The Nutcracker was written by E.T.A. Hoffmann in 1816 and has fascinated and inspired artists, composers, and audiences for almost two hundred years.

It’s probably most famous for the ballet with music composed by Tchaikovsky which has now become a staple of theatres and concert halls all around the world at Christmas.

Please note: Many editions contain two stories The Nutcracker and the Mouse King. We will only be reading The Nutcracker.

I read the first chapter a loud to my daughter this morning. I think I will do this every day since they are short chapters and if I miss some days can still fit it in before Christmas. the copy I got from the library has historical information and other interesting facts on the side which is quite nice. Today it mentioned that the town Nuremberg is famous for it's clocks, watchs, and clockwork toys.

I download this book last night. I wanted to up my hoopla slots before the month turned over. I plan on starting on this one soon.

Hi, everyone! I read several versions of The Nutcracker years ago with my grandson, but they were all the short illustrated ones and to be honest, I paid more attention to the beautiful drawings than the story itself. For that reason, I chose to read the original (naturally translated) version this time (the second one in the list shown above. It isn't long, only 112 pages, so it should be easy to read this as well as Hiddensee this month. I don't think it matters what version you choose to read, as the themes and general story should be the same. I am definitely noticing the style of language shows that it really is a very old tale.

Adriel, that is a cool idea for advent. It's kind of dark and wordy, though, depending on the version you have. You should totally plan a vacation to Germany sometime.

How is everyone progressing? I have finished the original and am starting Hiddensee tomorrow. I think I enjoyed reading The Nutcracker with my grandson more several years ago than this time. The illustrations definitely add to the tale. However, reading the original version without illustrations really brought out how creepy Godfather Drosselmeir seems to be.

I'm new, so just picked up my library books today.
For the original, I scored Nutcracker with art by Roberto Innocenti and I look forward to reading it as soon as I can get my old eyes under bright sunlight to see the small font and the detailed paintings.

(But why does the font need to be small, and even pale? It's a huge book; there's tons of white space they could be using!)

I think one of the things I love about The Nutcracker is that it varies slightly with different versions. Each illustrator adds their own perspective, which actually can change the story itself.

I bet! I suppose that I could just read a PDF, but I don't want to.

Does the age of Clara change? I seem to remember whispers about a taint of pedophilia... maybe because sometimes she's about 12 and is of an age to be susceptible to having crushes?

If I’m being honest, I hate the nutcracker. It’s always creeped me out. There are parts that feel like a drug or alcohol induced vision and creepy older men and it just gives me the heebie jeebies.

Shanna, I can totally understand that. It is a very bizarre dream. But as I read the original version, I came to understand that a lot of the dream was influenced by several factors. 1. A very active imagination. 2. A sick, overexcited girl with a fever. 3. A godfather that told bizarre stories to such a girl.

Cheryl, one of the things I found surprising was that in the version I read, the girl's name is Marie, not Clara!
She is also only 7 years old, and there isn't any hints of pedophilia, although the godfather is very creepy in my opinion. I mean it's like he wants the kids to have nightmares. Who would tell children a story of a 7 headed mouse as a bedtime story?!

I'm interested in seeing the perceptions you each get from the version you read.

She's calle Marie in the one I am reading as well . I feel like there must be a lot missing in the one I have as Godpapa hasn't said much.

As far as creepiness goes, the Mouse King is probably a reference to a Rat King, which is actually real-ish. It's referenced, for example, in The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents by Terry Pratchett. Another German character, Der Struwwelpeter, is awfully creepy, too.

Now in the edition I'm reading, Godfather D. hasn't said much before the first big battle. Also, in the picture in which we meet Marie, she looks both older than 7, and older than her brother. And the chapter in which the Nutcracker is discovered is translated as "Marie's Sweetheart."

The rat king has always been one of my favorite cryptid/myth lore. It’s both fun and creepy to think of a bunch of rats that gather together to make one big one in order to protect the whole colony.

I like creepy in that kind of way. Creepy involving children icks me out.

Yes, maybe it's a German thing, but I don't like it, personally.

Ok I'm done. I don't understand the bit about the philosophy of "Pastrycook" though.

And the end, well (view spoiler)[Marie leaves her family to wed the ex-nutcracker, the rescuer of Pirlipat, when she's 8?!

No pedophilia, and not really all that much creepiness, but still very odd and difficult to appreciate with modern American sensibilities. (hide spoiler)]

I totally agree that was a very weird ending. The whole story seemed to read like it was written much before 1816.
Odd that they would make Marie look so much older and call the chapter "Marie's Sweetheart". It does bother our modern sensibilities. I honestly kind of found it interesting that the whole "relationship" with the nutcracker was with the younger sister who is 7, instead of the older sister who was 12 or 13.

Agree.

Has anyone else started Hiddensee yet? I should be farther along in it, but had a bad week last week and just couldn't concentrate much.

I won't be able to do so for at least a week. (On a trip, didn't bring it with me.)

I just started The Nutcracker I need to get a move on. Will start Hiddensee as soon as I finish it. I am going to try to knock out The Nutcracker tomorrow. My edition is only about 50 pages... does that seem about right?

Enjoy your trip, Cheryl!
Gem, just curious as to which version you chose. There are so many! It still amazes me that even though the core story is the same, each version is slightly different due to the illustrator/translator's take on the original version. The fact that the girl's name and age changes is kind of bizarre.

Gem, the unabridged is usually at least 100 pages. What is your ISBN?

Cheryl wrote: "Gem, the unabridged is usually at least 100 pages. What is your ISBN?"

9781443431941

Oh yes, enjoy your trip. I hope you find it relaxing and refreshing. We're going to take a 15-day trip in January/beginning of February.

Lisa wrote: "Enjoy your trip, Cheryl!
Gem, just curious as to which version you chose. There are so many! It still amazes me that even though the core story is the same, each version is slightly different due t..."

I was only able to get a copy (sans illustrated/children's edition) through hoopla. Not a choice but rather the only option. I guess I could have bought a copy but I generally won't do that unless I have read the book and know I enjoy it and would read it again. If we bought every book I was reading we wouldn't eat, lol. And he reads a lot too, he's a literature teacher. Hmmm, reading vs. eating... I might could loose some weight that way! lol

I can't tell if yours is abridged, sorry. But I see that the edition on google books is even shorter. And I don't remember one of the details on the last page, and the translation is more old-fashioned than the one I read. There are 27 editions (scanned) avl. free to read on Open Library, too. Fascinating.

Cheryl wrote: "I can't tell if yours is abridged, sorry. But I see that the edition on google books is even shorter. And I don't remember one of the details on the last page, and the translation is more old-fashi..."

How do you determine if a book is abridged? Generally, Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ doesn't list that information, I'm not sure why they don't. The book I'm reading is actually 76 pages even though Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ shows it's 50.

It's definitely an older translation that uses more archaic words. I'm having to look words up pretty regularly. I won't read past a word I don't know, it slows down my slow reading even more but I learn things.

I look up words when I don't know them too, Gem. I'm surprised you couldn't find a copy from your library. The variety at my library is kind of astounding. Everything from short very juvenile picture books to beautifully illustrated versions to the archaic non illustrated one I got (n purpose).
What is the age of the younger daughter (the main character) in your version and what is her name?

Lisa wrote: "I look up words when I don't know them too, Gem. I'm surprised you couldn't find a copy from your library. The variety at my library is kind of astounding. Everything from short very juvenile pictu..."

So far only two children, Fred and Maria. My library has a real shortage of the classics, it's kind of frustrating.

My version only seems to have one daughter as well.

One girl, age seven, a slightly older brother. But also a much older daughter, probably of marriageable age, easy to overlook as she doesn't do much.

So sad that you library is lacking, Gem! We also have the ability to borrow from libraries throughout our state, especially bordering counties which get the books here within two days, so I adore my library system.
These variations are exactly what I have been talking about! My version was similar to Cheryl's in that there are definitely three children. The older daughter isn't mentioned that much, but she is very clearly described in the beginning and shows up several other times. Her age isn't stated clearly, but it is evident that she is a good bit older, definitely in her early teens.
It's also funny how the children's names change. In mine it is Marie, Fritz, and Luise. I distinctly recall reading versions that the younger daughter was named Klara, though.

Lisa wrote: "So sad that you library is lacking, Gem! We also have the ability to borrow from libraries throughout our state, especially bordering counties which get the books here within two days, so I adore m..."

I am jealous. When we move back east one of my requirements is a good library. The only complaint I have about this system is that the classics are hard to come by. Sometimes only a couple of physical copies and few ebooks. Hoopla has been a savior, they have a lot of classics. Also Project Gutenberg.

I am only on page 60 or so of Hiddensee, but feel that I must issue a warning to you. At first I was quite intrigued, thinking it would be a very interesting read as it drew me in with the introduction. Then it got weird, but that was expected, since The Nutcracker itself is quite weird. However, the last bit I read had what I consider totally unnecessary sexual content. So if that is something you find offensive, you might want to be aware and maybe even skip the book entirely. I am going to continue reading more of it over the next few days to see if it improves, but if not, to be honest this is one I will want to abandon myself.

Lisa wrote: "I am only on page 60 or so of Hiddensee, but feel that I must issue a warning to you. At first I was quite intrigued, thinking it would be a very interesting read as it drew me in with the introduc..."

I'm hoping to start Hideensee over the weekend. Sexual content won't bother me but like you I find it completely unnecessary. I recently read A Court of Thorns and Roses. I thoroughly enjoyed it but felt the same about a couple of chapters. I think what bothers me about the sexual content is that book was labeled "teen." You can write a book indicating sexual activity but not be explicit about it. I guess I'm old-fashioned.

Honestly, the majority of Gregory Maguires books have underlying if not overt sexual connotations or content. It’s one of the reasons I like his stories but don’t enjoy actually reading them.

Gem the last time Mom and I were in the library I saw pretty much all of Sarah J Mass’s books were on the teen shelf and I straight up told her they need to be placed elsewhere. Or a new section needs to be created that is “young adult� or some such thing. Like rated R. I myself really enjoy the books and would have enjoyed them as a 17-18 year old and up but a teen or pre-teen should not be reading them. I always read well above my reading level so books that were labeled as YA were being read by my sister and I at like age 11/12.

I don’t believe in censorship for the most part but I think there should maybe be warnings just so parents and even readers can be aware. Unexpected content, especially of a violent or sexual nature can be very traumatic or triggering for people and that takes away the joy of reading.

Shanna wrote: "Honestly, the majority of Gregory Maguires books have underlying if not overt sexual connotations or content. It’s one of the reasons I like his stories but don’t enjoy actually reading them.

Gem..."

I'm right there with you. Teens being curious and exploring is normal/natural but I think aside from being inappropriate (for obvious reasons) they also give teens the wrong idea about what to expect. Romance novels/Bodice Rippers are the same, all the swooning and "riding away into the sunset together/forever" gives teen girls the mistaken impression that relationships are 1) based on sex and 2) if the sex is good that's all they need. As adults we know better and can read those books with a grain of salt.

Lisa, thank you for the heads up. And thank goodness for goodreads, because we can learn so much about books right here, with so many features to help us.

Shanna wrote: "Honestly, the majority of Gregory Maguires books have underlying if not overt sexual connotations or content. It’s one of the reasons I like his stories but don’t enjoy actually reading them."

Funny you mentioned Gregory Maquire, we stopped at the thrift store on our walk this morning and my husband saw Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister for 1.00 and said, "This looks like it's right up your alley." Neither of us has read Maguire before but who could resist a story told from Cinderella's step sister's perspective.

I haven’t started Hiddensee yet. I will say Gem that Confessions was probably my my favorite of his books. I read Wicked and saw the play and very much enjoyed them both but I think confessions was my favorite so far.

I'm kinda glad you aren't liking it, Mom, because I was feeling guilty not buying it since I couldn't find it in the library. We have Sarah J Mass's Throne of Glass series in teen and her other one recently changed to adult. but she says the TOG is supposed to be teen. We do put not suitable for younger readers stickers on them. But honestly half the teen books these days are like that. Tick Tock is also horrible because they are all coming in for Colleen Hoover which is the next 50 Shades of Grey and we aren't allowed to stop them from buying it. I am just happy when they come in with an adult so I can say hey you might not want to let them read that.

Please do always let parents decide. Book banning is becoming an absolutely terrible problem, parents deciding what children who are not even their own should read. Honestly, I'm glad they're reading. Video games and social media are at least as 'mature content' and usually more mindless.

I haven't read Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister yet, but keep thinking I want to eventually. I did really like Wicked. I also want to read his book about the cowardly lion (don't remember the title right now). Wicked definitely had some sexual content in it, but it wasn't out of context and didn't bother me at all. The part from Hiddensee that I read just seemed a little too graphic for what it was, but maybe I am just being picky.
Adriel, I definitely think you wouldn't like Hiddensee.

Cheryl, Trust me - Adriel is completely against book banning. However, parents do need to be aware of certain content that their children, especially tweens and younger teens, are reading as those are very impressionable ages.
I agree that kids spend a ridiculous amount of time on media, but at least most of the video games are age rated. I wish more parents would pay attention to the social media content their children are watching, but it is difficult to do that I know.

It's difficult, that's true.

Cheryl, I work at a book store and have for 12 years. Quite often parents are completely oblivious to the content books have and are very appreciative I me letting them know. More on topic, I have definitely gotten to the weird part of the Nutcracker. Seriously searching 15 years for a nut and after all that work solving the problem they are exiled because he's an ugly nutcracker?!

I still haven't finished the story, I haven't read in days (which I hate) I'm struggling with a headache I don't want to become a migraine. I might download an audiobook to finish it.

Gem, I hope you get to feeling better!
I didn't know The Nutcracker itself was available on audiobook, and if so, which version might be interesting.
I do know that Hiddensee is on Hoopla.
The past pages 70-97) of Hiddensee were interesting and nothing to be cautious about, but I have a feeling that it is about to take another odd turn.