Support for Indie Authors discussion
Fun
>
How is self-publishing?
date
newest »


The old traditional publishers, before Amazon democratized publishing, are still the gold standard (not so much these days).
Indie-publishing has a lot of holes, but I'd give it an 8. You can write what you want, get it out there. Marketing sucks and always will, but I don't need to stress over maintaining my relationship with an agent and a publisher making demands I can't meet or don't want to meet.
Downside is that all the other work takes away from writing. And making a few bucks per book sold instead of twenty-five cents is nice.

I write what I want on my own schedule. Marketing is not fun, but there are options to help with that. I'll never make much money from it, but 95% of traditionally published writers never make much money anyway. If you're looking for a good income, writing is probably not for you.
For me, it was a combination of reasons.
First, the idea of querying a book was nauseating to me. Especially as I was looking for a job, and that process is mentally draining. Querying a book is very similar. And, just as with searching for a job, it's not just about your skills. Whether your book is accepted or not is more about whether they believe they can sell the story with minimal effort (and costs) or not. Self-publishing means having full creative control and freedom. And it means not making corporations rich while I'd get mere scraps. In the end, I want to be able to tell my story under my conditions, not someone else's.
First, the idea of querying a book was nauseating to me. Especially as I was looking for a job, and that process is mentally draining. Querying a book is very similar. And, just as with searching for a job, it's not just about your skills. Whether your book is accepted or not is more about whether they believe they can sell the story with minimal effort (and costs) or not. Self-publishing means having full creative control and freedom. And it means not making corporations rich while I'd get mere scraps. In the end, I want to be able to tell my story under my conditions, not someone else's.

I think being a self-published author trying to write for money off of writing is probably going to be much harder than a traditionally published author trying to make money off writing. I actually do not intentionally try to make money off of my work, since I mostly care about spreading my ideas and being known for intellectual contributions/insight than creating an entire career out of writing (I'm still in high school, so it's not like I have to make money right now anyways). Still, for those who do enjoy writing for a living, good luck on that!
As some of you have stated, self-publishing does enable more freedom; writing could actually feel more like a pursuit than a chore or a job.
9
The biggest struggles I have these days are finding time to write and when I do have time keeping my focus on the writing. A lot of the problem is I'm on the same work in progress I've been on for a very long time. It was getting so long and complicated, I split into three books, thinking that would make it easier to manage, but now I'm dealing with putting an ending on the first book that doesn't feel like a cliffhanger, that ties up the first book nicely, and only drops a few small hints as to what is coming in the next books. It's been a challenge. When the first book is out, I may take a break and work on something else for a little while before coming back to book two. We'll see.
I went indie because it seems publishers aren't eager anymore to publish stuff that's a bit "out there". They seem to like books that are formulaic and fit neatly into certain genres. I don't really writing that way. I like the freedom to let my books be what they want to be rather than forcing them to fit into pigeonholes.
The biggest struggles I have these days are finding time to write and when I do have time keeping my focus on the writing. A lot of the problem is I'm on the same work in progress I've been on for a very long time. It was getting so long and complicated, I split into three books, thinking that would make it easier to manage, but now I'm dealing with putting an ending on the first book that doesn't feel like a cliffhanger, that ties up the first book nicely, and only drops a few small hints as to what is coming in the next books. It's been a challenge. When the first book is out, I may take a break and work on something else for a little while before coming back to book two. We'll see.
I went indie because it seems publishers aren't eager anymore to publish stuff that's a bit "out there". They seem to like books that are formulaic and fit neatly into certain genres. I don't really writing that way. I like the freedom to let my books be what they want to be rather than forcing them to fit into pigeonholes.

Then reality smacked in the face.
So, self publishing: yes! For all the reasons above. If you make money, even if you cover the cost of editing, you’re doing okay. But self publishing lets you take and keep control, and write what your inner voice wants to say. I’ve gone on to write other books, all self published. New car? Not yet.

I'd always resented the idea of querying agents and going through the rigours of trying to get published with a traditional publisher, including having to compromise my creative vision to make my story marketable. Self-publishing allowed me the total control I wanted.
Yes, the promotional/marketing aspects are tough. No, I'm not a natural salesperson. I've had to learn how to become my "brand" and I'm still learning ways of connecting with potential readers.
What I write is niche material, so I've got no delusions of becoming rich and famous. I'm happy that my work is "out there" for people to buy if it interests them.
As for giving a rating, I'll say 8 out of 10. Love the creative freedom, hate the marketing!

I agree it is better not to give up your thoughts to a publisher which may want to make changes , and I would agree they are trying to only publish books they know fit the buzz niche for those who buy books.

TL;DR I write because I love it, and I do all the editing and promoting and less fun parts because self-publishing lets me share what I love writing :)

Over the years I had also written some science fiction, more or less as a hobby, and I had tried getting an agent. It turned out that getting an agent was extremely difficult because, in addition to the problems that you all have faced, agents expected to work you in marketing, and I live in New Zealand. That meant almost all the agents didn't want me - it was easier to get a writer closer to home. So the only option was self-publishing.
Unfortunately, I am not a natural sales person so selling was difficult. I have never considered I would get rich and famous, and I haven't so to that extent I did not fail. However, despite the fact I have onloy modest sales I consider the exercise a success. First, I have achieved what I wanted to achieve, I get rather modest income from it, and in my old age it gives me something to keep me alive, but I can work at my own pace and do what I like when I like. In one sense, this sort of activity is keeping me alive, giving me something to do each day. Oddly enough, having formally retired, with only myself to consider, I find I don't have enough time to do all the writing and composing I want to do. My days are all full, and that is a great way to finish things.

Hi Lucy. I'd rate the experience a 5.
Writing is therapeutic and gratifying. Publishing your work is another story entirely. In the beginning, I tried the traditional publisher route, but failed because 'I had no platform', and in fact didn't even know what a platform is. After about 100 queries, I gave up on that route and self-published with a vanity press.
Big mistake. Spent a lot of money on a 2-book package, and later learned about other options to self-publish like Amazon KDP, IngramSpark, Smashwords, Reedsy, Kobo, and others.
The one good thing that helped my effort is the 'built -in' niche market for my first book, a memoir relating my years on Catalina Island as harbormaster. That niche market helped my memoir find enough of a market to more than cover my costs of self-publishing. Surprisingly, my second book, a novel, failed to find a niche, even though the subject matter (ocean adventure) was similar to that of my memoir. That book, even with mostly excellent reviews, has sold far less copies than the memoir.
What fell flat with my efforts is marketing. I don't enjoy the process and don't understand the process, and don't have good internet or technical skills. After a while, I simply stopped trying to promote.
Even so, my books (primarily the memoir) continue to sell a few on Amazon, and I consider the journey gratifying and successful.

My work jumps about quite a bit and personally I can’t even identify a specific genre. I write for the love of writing and I self publish because I need a challenge.

It isn't that I didn't write well before. I've had great feedback on several of the books, but you don't know what you don't know until you really get into learning the craft of writing.
I'm aiming for 2024 to restrat my career with the new book and then pulling those I have published and redoing them so they are better. Two of them are part of a series, so I will do those first. I'm hoping within the next couple of years to quit working so i can concentrate fully on my writing.
Marketing is one of the things that you need to really learn. Marketing should start when you are on the copyediting and proof reading stage or about 6 months prior to release. That is when you need to start making contact with those you can help you with their lists and marekting. Follow those authors who write in your genre on BookBub and you need to begin to get those few you have on your email list engaged with the upcoming book. Spend 2 hours 2-3 times a week on your marketing until you get it into a routine with it. Oh, and don't forget, not everyone is one Amazon. I buy minimal from them because of their treatment of indie authors. I buy most of my things from Kobo or B&N. (the take back royalties on audio books and books, the deletion of accounts without warning, their pushing of tractional over indie when indies are the ones who made them big)
Going indie gives you control not only of your writing, publishing schedule, but you will need to do your own marketing no matter what route you go, so why give a traditional publisher and agent over 25% of your royalties.

Traditional publishing didn't enter my thoughts, because, writing as a career was not on my agenda. I was gainfully employed in my own business, and was happy in doing it. I was privileged to hear the stories of others, and knew that readers could benefit from the combined stories.
In self-publishing, I was not entirely on my own. I received assistance for the cover design, editing, and the blurb for the inside of the cover.
A disadvantage of self-publishing is, promoting the book, if the author does not have the time to either travel, or build a social media network. Also, getting the book published, can be expensive, depending on the publishing program the author chooses.

Also, if you do manage to make it as indie published (i.e., earning enough money to support yourself), trad publishers who wouldn't give you the time of day will come calling. Unfortunately for them, though, by then you'll know you can make better money on your own than with a publishing company that takes a lot off the top.
I'm not sure how much longer trad publishing will survive with the business model they have.

For myself, I started as an indie author from the get go. I didn't know anything about writing. When I set out to find out, I learned trad pubs would not give me time of day. Besides, I wanted to tell my own stories, and I wasn't going to let anyone butcher them because the stories didn't fit their model.
And the biggie - I wanted to do it my way, at my own good time without someone else's deadlines.
Marketing has been eating my lunch, but since I don't depend on my books' sales, I'll have to ride along the best I can.


I find it hard to believe that anyone goes the trad route anymore. To each their own I suppose, but I've never understood what the big houses do for their lion's share of the proceeds. The only advantage they have is in marketing, and they won't even do that for new authors. They only promote proven commodities.


If you ask some authors if they are successful, they will reply that they have had various books published that have become films, been in a bestsellers list, are used as reading materials in schools, blah blah.
For myself, my successes have been in getting a book published in the first place, receiving both good reviews and constructive criticism which I can learn from, and getting an illustrator for the second book I'm working on now

So enjoy the ride, keep it fun and don't give up. Find a good group writers for critique and keeping you on track. (again, his advice)
Celebrate the wins and keep the joy alive in what you are doing.

And it's not like they are releasing products that are flawless, either!

They need to speed up their processes but Traditional Publishing is still way behind in what they do. Change is slow and the cumbersome process hasn't changed since the modern press was developed. They are putting themselves out of business when many of their big money makers go Indie or hybrid becasue of the draconian costs, minmal royalties for the author and the lack of support for new writing, pushing them to go Indie just to make a living. That million that Brandon Sanderson raised to write his next book is all his. the traditional publisher he was with lost a HUGE client when he decided to write what he wanted, not what they wanted and went to kickstarter to get the money.

All very true! Trad publishing is stuck in the past.

But they sell only so many books per month because there are only so many buyers. Double the number of titles and you've just doubled the cost for editing, fact-checking, etc, without bringing in one more penny. And that's knowledge acquired over many more years of publishing than any of us have been writing.
It takes as long as it does to release a story because they've learned how long a given title sits on the shelves before it will either not succeed and be replaced, or require restocking. But that's variable, so there needs to be enough in the pipeline to handle the variables.
Added to that, Professional editing, fact-checking, and all the other services and steps that a publisher takes on the way to market are not overnight tasks. Plus, in order to keep the editors, etc. earning their salaries, there must be a new project waiting when the present task is complete. That applies to the printing, and, the marketing. bookstores don't simply act as a pond the publisher dumps things in. Every book that appears on the shelves of a bookstore is chosen by that company because they've been convinced, by that book's sales people, that it has a good chance of making money for the store. From the store's viewpoint, every picked that's not selling is space better used by another book..

But they sell only so many books per month because there are ..."
You make some good points, but new books come out on Amazon everyday. Granted, not all of them are particularly good, but the large volume of books hasn't slowed down.
I would also say that trad publishers doing fact checking is a thing of the past, if it was ever done. And from what I've learned from writers with trad publishers, marketing for most writers is what they pay for themselves, not what the publishers are putting out.
Any writer who manages to make a living self-publishing would be foolish to go with a trad publisher these days.
Eileen wrote: "Any writer who manages to make a living self-publishing would be foolish to go with a trad publisher these days...."
Couldn't agree more Eileen. In fact it's always mystified me why big name authors like Stephen King stay with their publishers. His audience is built in so I see no reason why he needs the publisher.
Couldn't agree more Eileen. In fact it's always mystified me why big name authors like Stephen King stay with their publishers. His audience is built in so I see no reason why he needs the publisher.

First, for the services they provide. They have professional editors with experience in the genre the publisher specializes in. When I had my manuscript critiquing service open, I saw many stories that had, supposedly, been edited. Every one of them would have been rejected for structural issues before the end of page three, due to issues that a professionally trained editor should have noticed and reported.
Next is the 10,000 book stores, where readers can see, and handle lots and lots of books, every one of them chosen from a thousand or more competitors. So while you may not love every book, you know that every one of them was written on a professional level.
Go on Amazon and you see far more amateur covers shouting for attention than those of the pros. And they all have a blurb telling you how great the book is.
But all that aside, Look at it from his viewpoint. The publisher will professionally edit his work, then print tens of thousands of hard copies, sell the bookstores on the idea of carrying that title, and then do all the work of distribution. They even take successful authors like him and put the book on an end cap for greater visibility. Go self-release and he loses that. So, the math says he makes a lot more money that way, and can forget about all the dog-work that’s involved in getting it ready for, and on to the market.
Jay wrote: " In fact it's always mystified me why big name authors like Stephen King stay with their publishers
First, for the services they provide. They have professional editors with experience in the genr..."
I hear what you're saying Jay, and don't disagree about the abundance of, shall we say, unprofessional books on Amazon. However, professional editors, and marketers, and whoever else can be hired in this day and age. I mean, we're talking Stephen King here. The King. Don't tell me that bookstores wouldn't stock his next book if it were self-published. No way. They know it'll sell and they'll want it in store to bring people in. Hell, at this point the guy could publish 400 blank pages and probably sell enough to be a bestseller. An exaggeration maybe, but not by much.
So I'm not swayed by the argument that he makes more money by giving away 50, or 60, or 70 percent of his revenue to the publisher. He could self publish, put out a tweet about a new release and rake in 70 percent of the proceeds for himself. I think the reason he doesn't, is just perception. So many people still perceive being traditionally published as some kind of higher achievement. But that is changing.
First, for the services they provide. They have professional editors with experience in the genr..."
I hear what you're saying Jay, and don't disagree about the abundance of, shall we say, unprofessional books on Amazon. However, professional editors, and marketers, and whoever else can be hired in this day and age. I mean, we're talking Stephen King here. The King. Don't tell me that bookstores wouldn't stock his next book if it were self-published. No way. They know it'll sell and they'll want it in store to bring people in. Hell, at this point the guy could publish 400 blank pages and probably sell enough to be a bestseller. An exaggeration maybe, but not by much.
So I'm not swayed by the argument that he makes more money by giving away 50, or 60, or 70 percent of his revenue to the publisher. He could self publish, put out a tweet about a new release and rake in 70 percent of the proceeds for himself. I think the reason he doesn't, is just perception. So many people still perceive being traditionally published as some kind of higher achievement. But that is changing.

First, for the services they provide. They have professional editors with experience..."
Eldon's correct. Editors and good cover artists are available outside of NYC publishing houses.
The other thing is about Stephen King. If I read anything of his, it was decades ago and I can't recall it, but I've heard fans say that his books aren't what they used to be. People still buy them because they have his name on the cover - he's a brand. He's still writing them because he gets HUGE amounts of money to do so. Unfortunately, those big checks to him mean not so much $ for debut or mid-list writers whose works are arguably better written. Did you ever wonder why the bestseller lists rarely seem to list new writers? Only the same ones you've been seeing for years and years? And you do realize that most bestseller lists are manipulated by the publishers? (Maybe not Amazon's so much.)
You can't unsee what you see once you pull back the curtain.
Eileen wrote: "Eldon wrote: "Jay wrote: " In fact it's always mystified me why big name authors like Stephen King stay with their publishers
First, for the services they provide. They have professional editors w..."
I would wager Eileen that the bestseller rankings are dominated by the same big names because they are the only ones receiving the marketing push by the publishers. Just another reason to go indie in my mind.
First, for the services they provide. They have professional editors w..."
I would wager Eileen that the bestseller rankings are dominated by the same big names because they are the only ones receiving the marketing push by the publishers. Just another reason to go indie in my mind.

Me? Nobody in the trad world was interested in what I had to write, so I self-published. I've had to learn a lot of hard lessons about writing and editing and advertising, but that's the gig if you go this route.

That’s not how the business works. His books, because they’re printed in volume, will have to have a print run, as against POD.
How many does he pay to have printed? You learn that by contacting each chain and independent bookstore, and negotiating with them, as a publisher’s marketing department would do, which takes time. And because of volume, you need to schedule the printing in advance with an estimate of numbers, to reserve the time needed.
Does Mr. King have the time and knowledge of who to contact in each chain or store? Of course not. That’s done by a publisher’s sales department.
He’d have to contract for the cover, for posters, endcaps, and know who to send review copies to, plus all the steps the publisher already knows how to do.
And of course, he’d have to arrange for the shipping, and, the return of unsold books, because bookstores don’t buy the books, they work on consignment, and will return unsold copies, at no cost to them. So he needs to have, or arrange for, disposal of those books.
Mostly, they’re chopped up and recycled. I once designed the barcode reader for such a company. Once that's read, the machine sawed down the spine to free the pages, removed the covers for disposal, and crated the pages for recycling.
In short, he’d have to do everything a publishing company does, and probably spend more money than they would, because they already have the process streamlined.
It might be that he, already established, and a star, could do it. But, by leaving the business end to business people he makes more money by spending the same amount of time writing.

Why punish himself with extra work? Even if he were to make more money going indie, why would he care? King has more money than he needs. As you get older you try to arrange things so you maximize the value of the time yo9u have left. Running around chasing guys who are not performing is not the way anyone who is rational wants to spend their time unless they have no alternative.
Writing on a larger scale while being self-published is definitely possible, but only if the majority of your audience is going digital. D.K.Homlberg or Michael Arenson (some of the big names among self-pub fantasy and SF authors) release several books each year, and they're self-published. And the main reason why this is working for them is because they developed (almost) fully digital audience. So all the side stuff King has to deal with (printing and distribution of physical copies) is just... skipped.
So, self-publishing probably won't work if someone developed an audience that's mostly in physical books. But authors that made their career being digital don't need a publisher because they can just build their own team. As far as I know, Holmberg is working on 2-3 projects (each "project" means a series of 5-8 books) a year with a personal team of beta readers, editors, etc.
So, self-publishing probably won't work if someone developed an audience that's mostly in physical books. But authors that made their career being digital don't need a publisher because they can just build their own team. As far as I know, Holmberg is working on 2-3 projects (each "project" means a series of 5-8 books) a year with a personal team of beta readers, editors, etc.

Considering he is teaching writing fantasy at BYU, he knows what it takes and he's had enough 'practice' to do this on his own. A lot of tradtionally published authors are going indie and finding that they have a great fan base and can get more than they did under contract AND they get to deside what they want to write.
As to book stores, Ingram actually handles part of that, but you do need an experienced marketing person who knows how much to send and how to increase the buzz around the book. You CAN build a fan base even if you were a traditionally published author and mostly hard cover. So don't discount being able to leave a traditional publisher and making a bettter living on your own. But, you do need to be a self starter and make your deadlines for when you promise to have a book ready.
B.A. wrote: "A lot of tradtionally published authors are going indie and finding that they have a great fan base and can get more than they did under contract AND they get to deside what they want to write...."
Great point B.A.!!!
Great point B.A.!!!

10 for the publishing part of being a writer. My worst thing is promoting the books. I have written 75 in the last 12 years.
Feel free to elaborate in the comments! :)