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Cat’s Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. is our December 2024 New School Classic Group Read.

This is the Spoiler Thread.

I'm about 2/3rds through the book and am sure it will be a new favorite of mine. Very fun read. A standout chapter to me is 55, "Never Index Your Own Book". I found it very clever and pretty representative of the book's overall tone and humor.

Hey Matt- I am also about 2/3rds. Found it fascinating about Jonah's promiscuity as he has been with 53 women (chapter 91) & demands his new wife just be sexually with him which he then immediately flip flops when she threatens to leave him-hilarious. (Chapter 93)

I read this just a few months ago, so I probably won't reread it this month, but I'll follow the discussion.

I agree this is a fantastic book! It's probably my second-favourite Vonnegut, but quite close to my favourite. I like it enough that I own a copy. I love how he can tackle serious topics with fury, and yet with a funny, light touch.

In this book in particular, I think the cat's cradle metaphor is quite clever. It's one of those things that is obvious in a way, and yet as a metaphor it feels fresh and apt -- the idea that we construct a paradigm (say a cultural or moral standpoint, or even a religion) and say it's the truth, but it's just a bunch of words with no actual relationship to reality.

The first time I read it, I couldn't believe how easily I fell into his trap. Spoiler of the climax here: (view spoiler)[My first reaction after it ended was to wonder why on earth they hadn't destroyed the ice-nine. It would have been so easy -- all they had to do was melt it down when they first found it, and they could have prevented Armageddon. But then I realized, of course, that's the point of the book! Why don't countries with world-destroying weapons disarm them? Why do these weapons even get made? Because people want power, and are idiots. "People are idiots" is pretty much Vonnegut's mantra. (hide spoiler)]

Possibly my favourite quote from the book:

She hated people who thought too much. At that moment, she struck me as an appropriate representative for almost all mankind.

Wobbley wrote: "In this book in particular, I think the cat's cradle metaphor is quite clever. It's one of those things that is obvious in a way, and yet as a metaphor it feels fresh and apt -- the idea that we construct a paradigm (say a cultural or moral standpoint, or even a religion) and say it's the truth, but it's just a bunch of words with no actual relationship to reality."

That's a great interpretation! "Ain't no cat, ain't no cradle" as Newt said. I did not catch that parallel to Bokononism when I read, so I'm grateful you pointed it out.

Throughout my reading, I was wondering what the significance of the title was. I ended up interpreting it as a reference to the way people in power treat terrible weapons like the atomic bomb or ice-nine. I think Vonnegut refers to them as "playthings" towards the end of the book, which is how I reached that conclusion. I do think yours is probably the more accurate, however.

I loved the ending, too. Very appropriate way to sum up the book. I thoroughly enjoyed this read and can definitely see myself re-reading it in the future.

Wobbley, yes, I see how Vonnegut treats topics with both fury and a light touch. What mastery!

I also see about 2/3 through that this book needs to be read quickly to keep the connections active in my mind.

The satire about science and it's sometimes destructive consequences. This particularly powerful satire to me after having recently read both

Accessory to War: The Unspoken Alliance Between Astrophysics and the Military by Neil deGrasse Tyson where NGT notices that the astrophysicists/physicists and the military complex have complicated relationship.
&

What Do You Care What Other People Think: Further Adventures of a Curious Character by Richard P. Feynman where he talks about the miscommunication and misuse of information leading up to the Challenger disaster.

Cynda wrote: "I also see about 2/3 through that this book needs to be read quickly to keep the connections active in my mind."

Luckily, his books read quite quickly. I hope you enjoy the rest, Cynda! You're right, he has real mastery of his craft.

I forgot to check in on this thread. Some great insights mentioned here. I finished and enjoyed the book. I dont really know what else to say about it though. It was a quick read, but also packed with lots to think about. I will definitely be rereading this one at some point. I guess my comment tnat comes to mind now is how this story began as a way to write a book about the creator of the atom bomb (science), but ended up being more about Bokononism (religion), and contrasting the two. Like I said, lots to think about!

I did have some fave quotes too, ones I've liked prior to reading this book, but I dont have my notes with me right now to share them. And other quotes making more sense within the context of the story. Yeah, very fun! And like someone else said, this is my 2nd fave Vonnegut book at this point (i've read four lol).

Oh, here is one or two

“People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order so they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say.��

And waa this how it was in the book? Rereading it now, it makes total sense! Cuz when i waa a kid and saw Cats Cradle, i was like-huh? Why? Lol

“No wonder kids grow up crazy. A cat's cradle is nothing but a bunch of X's between somebody's hands, and little kids look and look and look at all those X's . . ."
"And?"
"No damn cat, and no damn cradle.��

And finally, this is so friggin true lmao 🤣

“Maturity...is knowing what your limitations are...Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter can be said to remedy anything.��

April wrote: "Oh, here is one or two."

You've chosen some great quotes here! I really love the no cat, no cradle metaphor in this book. He has some great observations about life.

Plan to read American Promethius about the making of the atomic bomb & will reference back to Cat's Cradle for interesting comparison.

Great thoughts everyone. This was definitely brilliant. I too loved the no cat, no cradle metaphor.

He seems to be saying if science doesn't get us, religion will. Understandably, at the time Vonnegut was writing this, we were terrified of what science could do. Perhaps now we're a little more terrified of religion, and have to hope science can still save us?

But as true and funny as this was, I didn't like it as much as Slaughterhouse or Mother Night. It felt more cynical than those. Maybe I just shouldn't have read it over the holidays. :-)

Kathleen wrote: "But as true and funny as this was, I didn't like it as much as Slaughterhouse or Mother Night. It felt more cynical than those. Maybe I just shouldn't have read it over the holidays. :-)"

It didn't bother me, but you're right that Cat's Cradle is quite cynical. Definitely more cynical than Slaughterhouse (I haven't read Mother Night yet, but it's on my 2025 challenges). I'm glad you enjoyed it nevertheless; I (obviously) agree it's pretty brilliant!

Kathleen wrote: "Great thoughts everyone. This was definitely brilliant. I too loved the no cat, no cradle metaphor.

He seems to be saying if science doesn't get us, religion will. Understandably, at the time Vonn..."

More cynical than Slaughterhouse?!! Lol I mean, maybe it was more subtle, and SH kinda plays things off in a joking matter, but I thought SH was SOOO depressing! I guess CC was too, but like maybe I was distracted by and interested in trying to figure out the logistics of this made up religion. Lol *shrugs

Been a minute since i read MN. I think that was pretty sad too, but I do remember really liking it, and I liked CC, but did not like SH5 lol Different strokes for different folks, i guess, right?

In the 20th century we had big social issues and big wars. The big helpers of religion and science were not working during time of war. Historical cathedrals were damaged and destroyed so spiritual homes were gone. Science the thing that helped families increase and grow killed in a big way in the wars. What a confusing world. Humor can help ease even the greatest pains. The post-modern writers found hope in the humor.

April wrote: "More cynical than Slaughterhouse?!! Lol I mean, maybe it was more subtle, and SH kinda plays things off in a joking matter, but I thought SH was SOOO depressing!"

April, I've been thinking about your question, trying to articulate for myself why I think Cat's Cradle is a more cynical book than Slaughterhouse-five. First I'll say that I agree with you that Slaughterhouse-five is presented in a way that is sadder than Cat's Cradle, but I think Cat's Cradle is the more cynical book. The easiest way I can explain this feeling is with the "no cat, no cradle" metaphor. I feel like this metaphor (and one of the main themes of the book) is that basically nothing has any meaning or inherent worth. That's about as cynical as it gets.

To that thought, I'll just add this quote from Cat's Cradle:

   I remembered The Fourteenth Book of Bokonon, which I had read in its entirety the night before. The Fourteenth Book is entitled, "What Can a Thoughtful Man Hope for Mankind on Earth, Given the Experience of the Past Million Years?"
   It doesn't take long to read The Fourteenth Book. It consists of one word and a period.
   This is it:
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Wobbley wrote: "April wrote: "More cynical than Slaughterhouse?!! Lol I mean, maybe it was more subtle, and SH kinda plays things off in a joking matter, but I thought SH was SOOO depressing!"

April, I've been th..."

Ah, ok i see your point. Cynical maybe, yes, but i also feel like their was less despair in it than with SH5. Like, the character would say these things, and the book of Bokononism was VERY cynical, but I felt like he was still detached from it. Maybe that is just me tho. Lol Like, i understand cynicsm, but i dont allow myself to get bogged down in it. But it was hard for me to tear myself from the despair in SH5.
Great thoughts here! Thanks for the conversation! It is really interesting to thi k about these things, and how to describe them. 👍

April wrote: "Ah, ok i see your point. Cynical maybe, yes, but i also feel like their was less despair in it than with SH5."

Yes, it's almost funny to think of it that way, since Cat's Cradle basically ends with the world ending (clearly a worse outcome than one city being bombed), but I agree that there is more despair in Slaughterhouse-five. Maybe it's because Vonnegut experienced that personally (the war, the Dresden bombings, etc.), and really feels the tragedy of it. Either way, as you say, Cat's Cradle has a more detached tone, which makes it less difficult to read I think.

Yes, this has been a great discussion! And I do think this book is pretty terrific.

I really appreciate your comments, April and Wobbley. Interesting about cynicism vs despair. I think that feeling of detachment in Cat's Cradle made it more cold to me, but I can see how that might make it easier to take.

I think maybe in real life, I'm more comfortable with cynicism than despair, but in reading, that might be flipped. Not sure, but interesting to think about!

Kathleen wrote: "I really appreciate your comments, April and Wobbley. Interesting about cynicism vs despair. I think that feeling of detachment in Cat's Cradle made it more cold to me, but I can see how that might..."

Oh wow, that is interesting that you feel differently about cynicism and despair in real life verses reading. I am not exactly sure how i feel about those, but am thinking it is possibly the opposite, that irl, i am, er, maybe not more comfortable, but more experienced with despair than cynicism, so i would rather not read it though. 😅🤷‍♀�� I dont know. Or maybe it has to do more with the subject matters. Like war verses religion/science. Or it is jjst like you said, because of the personal aspect of it.

April wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "I really appreciate your comments, April and Wobbley. Interesting about cynicism vs despair. I think that feeling of detachment in Cat's Cradle made it more cold to me, but I can s..."

Yes, I too find that when despair in literature reminds me too much of despair in life, it can be hard to take.

On this point, and also on the topic of the detached tone, I've actually found that some of my favourite authors have made use of a detached tone in impossibly sad scenes, to give them a sense on unreality and to make it more possible to read them. I find it to be a very effective technique.

I read this many years ago; didn't have reading time for it now but thought I'd read the comments which have inspired me to reread it one of these days.

George P. wrote: "I read this many years ago; didn't have reading time for it now but thought I'd read the comments which have inspired me to reread it one of these days."

Yay, I'm glad to hear it!