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Hi. I do not know if that is the right word for it.

I just posted in another thread that the only serial killer I felt pity for was Jeffrey Dahmer. He was so alone and tried to fight his demons.

The one that intrigues me the most though is Richard Ramirez. Of course because of his looks. He looks demonic but he was a handsome guy but also how he acted. There is a video on youtube which I've added to my favorites and the moment just before he looks up to his lawyer scared the hell out of me and i rewinded it lots of times.
but the whole clip is fantastically made and great scary music.

And no I am not a serial killer groupie! ;)

Of course Bundy comes to mind too. I am sure I will think of more.

O one other killer but he was a spree murderer? Richard Speck from the book Crime of The Century. That was also such a creepy story. All those girls in 1 room, being murdered 1 after another.

Marlene, have you read The Night Stalker about Richard Ramirez? I've never read it, but have a copy and was thinking of reading it. I don't really know anything about Ramirez, have never read or seen anything about it before.

of course I have.! it is one of my favorite books and so scary. I just lend it to my mom and she agrees with me. You must read it babe!

okay, i will read it then!!

I would have to say the one I feel for the most has to be Aileen Wuornos. She tried so hard to make herself acceptable to society and not one person gave he a break. Then in the end she was turned in by the only person she ever loved. It's a really sad story all round.

As for Bundy, he doesn't intrigue me but the way he charmed all those women at his trial is unbelievable.

The Zodiac killer intrigues me the most for the single fact that we aren't positive of his Identity.

Diane Downs intrigues me. You don't see too many female psychopaths but she truly is one.

I have to agree with Beth, I have a lot of sympathy for Aileen Wuornos as well. Monster was an excellent film but I have yet to read any books on her; does anyone have any suggestions?

Great quest now I question! Just now I realized that mine are the unsolved ones, Jack the Ripper, Lizzy Borden, and The Zodiac Killer. Read 2 of the more recent Ripper books, but have not read the Zodiac book.

Emmy wrote: "Great quest now I question! Just now I realized that mine are the unsolved ones, Jack the Ripper, Lizzy Borden, and The Zodiac Killer. Read 2 of the more recent Ripper books, but have not read th..."

The Zodiac book written by Robert Graysmith was well worth the time.

I'll go with Aileen Wournos. I believe she was molested as a kid (wasn't there talk about grandfather and brother?), lived a sexualized fringe existence and when raped again by that first of her victims, she lost it. Who know how much garbage she took during her life on the streets, hookers get beat up up all the time, raped too, because people know they won't report it. She probably had mental issues as well but nature v. nurture, I'm going with nurture.

I have sympathy for Lizzie too because her life was such a suffocating nightmare and she had to live it in a 30 pound dress. Her father was a miser who forced her to eat bad food, her stepmom was a stepmom, Lizzy was most likely gay (based on her post trial life) and she lived in a small town. Enter a really hot day, perhaps a snotty comment from stepmom and ole Liz was just done. Can't say that is what I would do but imagine the scene and how hard it must have been in that darn dress (fainting couches were in existence as much for tight stays as for the weight and temperature problem of the clothes).

I read a Patricia Cornwell book about her research and that it lead to artist Walter Stickert being the Ripper. It was unconvincing but not implausable. There is a documentary about this work.

Richard Ramirez scares me still whenever I drive by the house someone told me he lived in in SF.

I found that Graysmith book well worth the time too. Not that last movie enough though, dull.

Richard Speck, wow, I can totally see having some sympathy. In archival footage he always looks like a kitten in a doghouse. But then again Bundy looked like a yuppy. There is a theory out there that Speck didn't actually commit the murders. Speaking of Speck, anyone see that documentary that included him and his boyfriend telling him to show his underwear (as Speck did hormones to become a woman). Fascinating and repelling at the same time.

Great post Alie! I did see something on Speck where some other inmates made him show his breasts (due to the homorne treatment) to the camera. Felt sorry for the guy.

I did feel a great deal of sympathy for Aileen Wuornos due to her horrendous childhood. I just write a treatise entitled "Strychnine and Stilettos: The Anatomy of Female Serial Killers" now published in Crimespree Magazine. Since that one costs $, you may want to read "Hiding in Plain Sight: The Psyche of Serial Killers" which deals mostly with the male killers at . It's a good site:)

I also felt sympathy for Aileen. Instead of the world addressing the very issues that caused her to be what she became (namely child abuse, rape), the system decides to just kill her and move on. I hate how our society just buries the REAL issues under the rug. It's pathetic! Killing serial killers isn't going to stop people from becoming serial killers... BUT making sure children aren't abused and live stable lives will definitely decrease the number of killers out there.

Whyohwhy-I can't agree more with all you've said. We always bemoan stuff after the fact and don't pay attention to kids who are in trouble emotionally or physically! I write a lot about these issues and intend to keep saying it:)

Thanks Laura! I wish more people looked at this stuff from the perspective we share on it. I'm glad that there are folks like you out there who will continue to speak out about it, just like I will. Society is happy and so quick to get rid of the "monster" that they're largely responsible for creating, Yet they will take no responsibility for the fact that they've failed these people! Sometimes it amazes me how ignorant society can be.

I hear you-we are on the same page:) Do you work/write in this arena?

I am an independent filmmaker and I do write my own films, which deal with mostly TRUE CRIME (big surprise there, huh? lol).
I just did a short film where bloody justice is served onto 2 abuseful, neglectful parents who deprive their children and live for their own selfish gains. I guess it's sort of my way of trying to get this issue seen from the perspective of the people who are abused by a society that doesn't give the help where it is needed. And in return, all hell breaks loose! That's the way it always goes!! But the spin on the story is that a woman who was a trauma victim herself as a teenager RETURNS to dish out the justice and put an end to the abuse once and for all. :-)

Am loving what you are writing about and depicting in your films:) Congrats on your short film too!

Richard Chase. Can't believe no one has written a serious, Olsen-esque book about him. All I can find is one of those quickie, cash-in-on-the-hysteria books.

One that intrigues me is a killer in South Africa called Gert van Rooyen. He ubducted young girls with his partner. Their bodies have never been found.
When he was cornered he shot his partner and then himself.

It intrigues me because although van Rooyen's house has been turned upside down, dimolished and searched through, no bones have been found at all.

Psycics have been called in and yet there is nothing. The parents of these girls will never have rest.

Wow, Niecole I have never heard of him. His story sounds interesting though, shame about no one being able to find any of the bodies.

Niecole wrote: "One that intrigues me is a killer in South Africa called Gert van Rooyen. He ubducted young girls with his partner. Their bodies have never been found.
When he was cornered he shot his partner and..."
I have never heard of him either. Sounds very interesting. Are there any books about him?

I'm not sure Amy, I'll go and have a look for you :)

Colleen, it is very tragic that they never found any bodies, I cant even imagine what those families must feel like

Thanks Niecole! :)

I think the one that intrigues me most is HH Holmes. I can't get over the fact that his "hotel" was right on the corner of a main street and no one ever looked into it.

Hi Amy, I've done a quick look and cant find any books about him.

Here is a link about him that might interest you with some references from newspapers at the bottom.

Niecole - thanks for that link. I'd never heard of him either and that's a really fascinating story. Very odd that they never found the bodies, I hope one day there is more insight into this case.

Thanks for that link Niecole!

Pleasure guys

I've been trying to find some books about serial Killers in South Africa, there arent many

You could also search for Daisy De Melker, she poisened two husbands and her son...

Also check out this book Steeped in Blood: The Life and Times of a Forensic Scientist I got the book for Christmas, all about forecsic science and some crimes in South Africa. SA has more one time criminals than serial killers, but the crime rate here is very high. The book includes some of the most nutorious crimes in SA

Hi there. I had totally forgotten about this topic. Like some of you I also felt for Aileen Wuornos and no, not because she was a woman cause there are some women out there that I despise (Karla Homolka comes to mind)
Sometimes i really wonder why nobody writes a book about a case and the Gert van Rooyen case Niecole told us about is one of them. So not even a South African book? I could probably understand and read that ;)

Hi there Marlene...
I know, I'm not sure why there aren't any books on him, maybe there just aren't any great crime writers in SA.

Another book that I really want to read is 'n Hemelhoe Hekkie or in English Living without Liesl: A True Story. Its the story of a young girl who gets murdered right outside her house when she goes out to feed her dog. Its her mother writing the book, and I think to read something out of a family members perspective is really sad.

There are a few books about South African killers that I can list:
It's Me, Anna - about a young girls abuse
I Have Life: Raped, Stabbed and Left for Dead - Alison's Inspiring Story of Survival: Alison's Journey as Told to Marianne Thamm - a very sad story about a young women who survives against the odds...

I remember the last book and the story. This women was left in the bush, with her bowls hanging out and her throut slit, yet she pulled herself into the street to try and get the attention of cars to help her.

In South Africa crimes are committed because of race, gender and obviously power. Rape is a big issue in South Africa.

Thanks so much for all the titles. The last one of you list sounds familiar. maybe this was translated into Dutch and I've read it a decade ago but not sure.

Yes I did read that one because I remember she crawled to the street. wow. Maybe there is another book about this case that I read? must google ;) (No, not at amazon)
I will see if our library has Hemelhoe Hekkie. I think I can read South African.
thanks so much!

Pleasure Marlene...

In the past (like the 80's and early 90's) there were loads of girls going missing, and some of them were never found again.

I think Hemelhoe hekkie will be a very sad story, I'd love to read it myself :)

Alison was a true survivor, you're right, she crawled into the street to get noticed, it was a horrible tragic story, and she's amazing for having survived

Emmy wrote: "Great quest now I question! Just now I realized that mine are the unsolved ones, Jack the Ripper, Lizzy Borden, and The Zodiac Killer. Read 2 of the more recent Ripper books, but have not read th..."hi Emmy, you've got to read Zodiac! I found a paperback of it back in the late 1980's and SCARED me good. In fact while doing some research for my current novel, my wife and I took a drive to Lake Berryessa..even in broad daylight it was unnerving. Especially as it's a two lane road, we knew we were driving the same road Zodiac had been on when he came to commit murder that day. Chills now thinking about it!
Tom

Ted Bundy since i was a kid and i'm only 34 now. i've been fascinated with serial killers since i saw that made for tv movie:the deliberate stranger. of course i own it. i've read Ann Rule's book and am about to read "the only living witness". can anyone recommend any Ted Bundy books? thanks!

Dero wrote: "Diane Downs intrigues me. You don't see too many female psychopaths but she truly is one."

I agree. I just read the book about her again and it still sent chills up my spine.

I am intrigued by Robert Lee Yates, first because he killed a relative, a very nice girl from a good family who had gotten involved with drugs, and second because there didn't seem to be anything in his background that would lead to this kind of thing. I've seen interviews with his father and he was involved in Scouts and church. He was nice looking and had friends who came over to his house. During the time of the murders, he had a wife and five children, a good job, positions of responsibility. There are a few things in his history that might have cause him some problems...his mother was supposedly domineering, but absolutely nothing that would explain his killing 18 people. He is similar to Ted Bundy in that respect. You can go through both of their backgrounds and find some problems, but millions of people have much worse and they don't become serial killers. There's a very good book out on him called "Body Counts" and a number of websites.

There is an interesting profile sheet on him at:



As for books on Ted Bundy, the best is Ann Rule's "The Stranger Beside Me." She worked with Bundy on a suicide hot line and knew him fairly well. She wrote for true crime magazines at the time. Isn't amazing that she would end up writing about him years later?

I found The Stranger Beside me very scary. The fact that Ann knew Ted was the scary part, how she still sent him money even when he was in jail??? Wow...

Yes, it is amazing that she would know him that well and yet not suspect that he was doing the "Ted" killings. That just points out how smooth a lot of these people are. We all think that we wouldn't be taken in by one of these guys, but that is exactly the problem. Most of them are able to escape capture because they seem so normal.

Does anyone know this book?

It was about identical twin boys named Tim and Todd. Their parents divorced and it was a fairly wealthy, but dysfunctional family. One of the twins killed either the mother of the father, the father, I think. One of the things that I remember about the father was that he couldn't take the time to tell the boys apart and called each one of them Tim/Todd.

This may not be the actual name of the boys, but it was the name used in the book and there were photos, so I believe it was their name.

I read this in the 70's, I think, but I believe the murder took place in the late 50's or in the 60's. Does anyone know of this book?

Anne Hawn wrote: "Does anyone know this book?

It was about identical twin boys named Tim and Todd. Their parents divorced and it was a fairly wealthy, but dysfunctional family. One of the twins killed either the ..."
I have never heard of it but it sounds very interesting!

I loved that book. the movie "the deliberate stranger" first introduced me to ted bundy as a kid and i've been fascinated by him since b/c he was charming, attractive, etc, and i never thought a criminal,let alone a serial killer, could be that way. it opened my eyes. i now get any book i can on him. i've only read the stranger beside me, but am about to read the single witness. does anyone know of any other good Bundy books? love to hear from ya!

Amy wrote: "Anne Hawn wrote: "Does anyone know this book?

It was about identical twin boys named Tim and Todd. Their parents divorced and it was a fairly wealthy, but dysfunctional family. One of the twins ..."

If anyone knows this book, do let us know, i'd love to read it.

You could try asking in this group: What's the Name of That Book?

Anne Hawn wrote: "Yes, it is amazing that she would know him that well and yet not suspect that he was doing the "Ted" killings. That just points out how smooth a lot of these people are. We all think that we woul..."

Hey Anne, I totally agree.
Check out my blog, I post some Q&A's about serial killers. The scariest ones are those who dont look like maniacs, they look like your next door neighbour...

i'm sorry but i had to snikker b/c apparently i'm not the only person that asks for these type of books for xmas. some of my relatives think i'm a bit odd b/c of this.

Beth wrote: "i'm sorry but i had to snikker b/c apparently i'm not the only person that asks for these type of books for xmas. some of my relatives think i'm a bit odd b/c of this."

I had a grandmother tell me one time that I must have something wrong with me to read books like this. lol

i've been told that many times!! ha ha!!

Now I don't feel so all alone!! LOL