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Okay, so I was wondering how many people have read the New Jedi Order series, or at least part of it. I'm on Balance Point right now, and one thing has bothered me about the series so far.

Maybe it's just me, but when I read, I see the whole thing in my mind's eye. But when I read this series, you have to stop and think for a second before you visualize, because the enemy is different. When I think of a space battle, I think of two high-technology groups fighting it out, not one with organic technology. It's cool and all, but I was wondering if anybody else was a little taken aback when they began reading the series like I was.

I am on the same book right now actually. I feel the new kind of enemy is sort of a breath of fresh air. It shows immense creativity. Plus, the fact that the force is void in them is also brilliant.

And I have no problem visualizing at all, but that may just be because I've seen pictures of them and their ships in some of the guide books. And its not hard for me to imagine something being organically engineered or mutated for use as a weapon, such the the snake creature they use for a hand weapon. The fact that even their armor is living is real interesting.

That's true, they are very different. The fact that they are voids in the Force also makes them the perfect bane for the Jedi. Well, another perfect bane for the Jedi. The Sith are good, because they use the same Force for a different purpose. That's kind of archetypal. But the Vong are different altogether. And I never really thought of it as being any more creative, but it does add spice to the history of our beloved galaxy far, far away.

Well, lets pray the Jedi can take care of the dang Peace Brigade because they are a real pain in the butt! Making everyone want to kill them and "joining" the enemy even though in the end the invaders will probably kill them too...... They really are scum.

On a side note, I wonder when Mara has her baby.




Whos your favorite solo child? Mine is Anakin. He does what needs to be done but he doesn't just giver into hatred either. Jaina is very likable. Jacen, I don't really like his thoughts much, or a lot of his actions (Or must I say inactions). But I guess he did what needed to be done at the end of Balance Point, but he's still the least favorite solo child of mine.

William wrote: "Well, lets pray the Jedi can take care of the dang Peace Brigade because they are a real pain in the butt! Making everyone want to kill them and "joining" the enemy even though in the end the invad..."

The antagonist that I hate themost is Borsk Fey'lya. If he was indicative of all Bothans, I can see why the Emperor hated them so much. But he isn't. Besides, I think that I would be more worried about Senator Viqi Shesh.

My favorite Solo child?? I'd say Jaina. She's stubborn, a little cocky and really gutsy. In other words, she's the daughter of Han and Leia. The two Solo boys I think I like equally, because they are really trying to feel out their own place in the Force, and just going about it in the same way. Anakin is more action-oriented, but appreciates some of the few times that he has to step out of the Force, like with Mara on Dantooine. On the other hand, Jacen tries to stick to his principles as best he can, but ultimately uses his abilities in the face of sheer practicality. They're all great kids, just very different from one another.

I forgot to mention Borsk, because I hate him just as much as the Peace Brigade, and hes been around much longer and has been a thorn in the side of the New Republic for way too long, pretending to be for the good of it. Conquest does not go against what I am saying either...... You'll see what I mean if you haven't yet. I'm on page 125 now, so if your farther don't spoil anything.

But yeah, Borsk should die, he is annoying and obviously doesn't care about anyone except himself.

I finished Conquest last night (didn't sleep much) and I agree. My review has some stuff that I thought could be spoilers, so I marked it. So read it at your own risk. But I think that even though we hate Borsk, he adds quite a bit to the overall story - mainly a domestic resistance to the Jedi. It's like in Vietnam or now with the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Some of the public "back home" don't support it, and so the war is derailed until support can be stronger.

Borsk is an important character and it was obviously meant for us to hate what he says and does. So pretty much his character was molded as such, but I think this series builds on previous novels he's in, painting him as a true anti-hero even more-so than before, when thats the last thing the galaxy and the Jedi need, another anti-hero. Need even hiding behind a fake veil of being an Allie anymore, he vocally goes against the Jedi.

And I'm only on page 157, I'm slow. But I'll read alot tonight, I've already read from 125 today. Math studying and sleepiness took over my reading time the last two days.

New Jedi Order is nothing compared to Legacy of the Force. Also William I noticed you talked about Super Shadow and his info. Can't say it is canon now because New Jedi order disproves some of his ideas as you will see in upcoming books. I don't think you or Jeff has read those yet. When you get to that point I would like to hear what you think.

It's interesting that you say that New Jedi Order is not as good as Legacy, because you never finished NJO.

(Just so everybody knows, Becky and I are married, and both big Star Wars Geeks. Ask about our wedding cake sometime.)

Anyway, I just finished Rebirth, and there are some things that are starting to pop up aboug the Yuuzhan Vong that are making me start to question their place - or rather, how they relate to the people in our beloved galaxy and their gods.

Anyways, it's a great series. That's pretty much what I'm trying to say.

I (also) haven't finished NJO, but from what I've read, I would tend to agree with you Jeff. It's pretty darn good. This is my next series to finish.

I don't even have any of the Legacy books yet. I'll get the first few at least probably within the next month though.

I was right, I'll get some books for my bday, and I can spend 75$ on em', which means I can get all 9 Legacy books and one or two others. *drools*

What other one should I get, I was thinking Coruscant Nights 3 since I have the first two, or Crosscurrent. I would get Darth Bane 3 if it were out in paperback, guess I'll have to wait for X-Mas time to get that.

I personally have enjoyed the KOTOR graphic novels, but they're not for everybody.

I have read all of NJO and The Legacy Era. Personally, I prefer Legacy. But NJO is necessary reading in order to put Legacy in perspective, especially pertaining to Jacen.

But addressing the thread question, visualizing the Vong in battle presented me with no problems. What I did have problems with was the Vong's ongoing dialog. IMO, it became repetitious and predictable.

You mean Legacy of the Force? I apologize if this is a stupid question, but Legacy is a Graphic novel series I am reading.

Legacy is also a book series title.

Huh, I thought it was called Legacy of the Force.

Sorry for the mis-leading abbreviation :)

That's fine, I just tend to take things very literally.

Jim wrote: "What I did have problems with was the Vong's ongoing dialog. IMO, it became repetitious and predictable."

Okay. So nothing has happened on this thread for quite a while, and since I am still working on NJO, I thought it was time to breathe a little life back here. Jim, I think what you wrote is true . . . from a certain point of view. (You'll find that many of the truths we hold to depend greatly on our own point of view.)

The Vong dialogue does get a little predictable, partially because they're the bad guys. You can check out the recent discussions on the thread "Speculation on the future of characters" since we mention that, especially Laurence's comment. But at the same time, I feel that we have to remember that these people(?) are ZEALOTS!!! I feel that when a person gets so strong in a belief that it is the only thing that they think about, you have a group like the Vong. They've been crammed on their worldships for a very long time, doing what? Praying and sacrificing, probably. There are some of them that are examples of a lesser amount of faith, and some are the poster-boys of their religion, but for the most part they are all faithful to the point of recklessness.

Jeff wrote: "Jim wrote: "What I did have problems with was the Vong's ongoing dialog. IMO, it became repetitious and predictable."

Okay. So nothing has happened on this thread for quite a while, and since I..."

Good points. I suppose if their had been less of it (the dialog), it would have made it easier reading for me. It just seemed the Vong rehashed their philosophical points over and over.

Jim wrote:"Good points. I suppose if their[sic] had been less of it . . .

This is true, but at the same time, I think that it makes the blasphemers stand out all the more. That, and since NJO is so. very. long., there is ample time for their beliefs to morph over time. I don't want to have any spoilers, but any time there is a story, there are some people whose beliefs change throughout. I don't know if that is intentional in this case, but I guess it is possible.

I finished NJO yesterday. I gave the last 5 books or so 5 stars easily. The final book kind of has a slow start to me, but in it there are plenty of surprises as things are coming to a close....... In other words it is indeed worth finishing and is a good series in my mind. Anyways I spent a year and a few months reading the dang thing. Now its onto The Dark Nest trilogy, The Joiner King does require you to have read the NJO series to understand it so.... And I love it so far!

And you'll find that the early Legacy of the Force novels reference Dark Nest a lot, while Fate of the Jedi references LotF.

Indeed. In fact this first Dark Nest book's story is based on something that happened during the NJO...... In fact its answering some questions that were left unanswered by that series end, *spoiler alert* such as what happened to a certain someone after he was kidnapped by the Dark Jedi in Star by Star.

I'm only about 21% done with it, so theres probably a lot more connections later, and probably in the other books. I'll find out when I read em' I guess. Don't tell me either.


Besides, it would not make sense to not connect the all these series.

I think that this has been happening a lot more lately, probably since there have been a lot more things coming out. I mean referring to a different series or trilogy. Big things stay the same, like the birth of the kids, but other things can come into play and be a major story point in another series. Awesomeness.

Okay. I have a theory about the Vong, but I'm pretty sure that it is not right. But it would explain a lot.

I think that something that would make some sense would be the fact that they themselves are biologically engineered technologies. They have no presence in the Force to those Force-sensitive individuals, right? Similarly, something like a lightsaber blade doesn't, but a Jedi can react to it because he/she can foresee the effect that a lightsaber could have on their neck. So the Jedi can respond to things that the Vong do, because they have an effect upon life in the galaxy. Their Gods could be the ones that created them, built up a masochistic religion, and pointed them at things to kill. This could also be kind of like the Titans being overthrown by their children, the Olympians. So it's got a dramatic aspect, too.

I don't like spoilers, so please don't include any in a response. I do realize, though that my "theory" is probably full of holes and that there is a chance that it is totally baseless. Other than that, I would like to hear input.

All I will say is that your predictions/theories are mostly wrong. =P Sorry if you didn't even want to hear that much. But you did already say they probably were already anyway.

This was a fun series, I enjoyed it a lot... what is your favorite novel of the series so far?

Stephen wrote: "This was a fun series, I enjoyed it a lot... what is your favorite novel of the series so far?"

Star by Star, definitely. My experience with Star Wars series is that the darkest (and saddest) parts are the best.

Ha. I was going to post this earlier, but I was going to say Star by Star was one of my least favorites . It wasn't bad either, I still gave it 4 stars, almost 3.

But my favorite was maybe Traitor or Dark Journey.... Or The Final Prophecy. Or the Force Heretic Books. Or Destiny's Way. Maybe Vector Prime. See...... its a hard decision. That list is though in a good order. *shrugs* I give the series a 4.5, which is reallllyyy good.

Early on I liked the Dark Tide books and this is still my favorite SW cover art:


By about halfway I was ready for the series to be over and don't remember enjoying much in the latter half. I like FotJ a lot more.

I'm kind of surprised. Based on the discussions we've had about authors, James Luceno has generally gotten a hefty thrashing. So for you to say Star by Star is your favorite was interesting to me. But you're onto something by saying the darker and sadder the story, the better it usually is. Case and point: Empire Strikes Back.

Granted, I'm not finished with the series yet . . . I think that Rebel Dream and Rebel Eclipse were among my favorites. I like Wedge, maybe that's why.

Star By Star was Troy Denning.

I have heard varying opinions of Star By Star. I, personally, loved it, but I knew a star wars fanatic who thought it was torture to read.

Stephen wrote: "I have heard varying opinions of Star By Star. I, personally, loved it, but I knew a star wars fanatic who thought it was torture to read."

This is very true. If you read in the Authors thread, there are quite a few scathing comments about Denning. From what I noticed, I think he has a much more detail- and character-oriented style of writing. If you're a reader who likes that, then you probably joyously freak out when you read it. It is a little bit of a break from the fast action in that aspect. But if you like the really fast action, then it can be a torture. Or, another reason you may not like it is because it is a fairly crucial moment in the series, and you may feel like it should be fast paced throughout the book, and you are disappointed because the focus is on something else than moving the story quickly along.

After finishing Hero's Trial, I'm starting to conclude that I don't find the Yuuzhan Vong a particularly interesting or compelling enemy. I like the Jedi action in these books, but as soon as the focus shifts to the Vong, I just get bored, and I skip to the next Jedi section of whatever book I'm reading. The Solo kids are terrific characters, and I'll probably read a few more in the series, or read the pivotal books, at least.

I haven't yet commented on this series because I have only just recently finished Balance Point (and the subsequent short story: Recovery) and have found the series to be quite enjoyable. I think the knock about NJO that I keep hearing from fans of Star Wars is that it is too long an arc. Nineteen books constitutes a lot of reading, and I can understand why some people get bored after, let's say, book ten. I am taking it slowly, and will try to enjoy it as much as possible.

kate wrote: "I don't find the Yuuzhan Vong a particularly interesting or compelling enemy."

Thigs will get better when you reach Edge of Victory I. The story focuses on some specific Yuuzhan Vong characters instead of the whole race.

I, personally, thought that the fact that it was nineteen books long set it apart from the others. It took me about six months to get through, (or more because I lost Balance Point halfway through) and I think I enjoyed mostly every moment of it. I remember that the two Hero's books are a little slow, but the Yuuzhan Vong enemy, in my opinion, is a very intriguing species. @kate: I think the books will pick up after balance point. The best one in series, in my opinion, and one of the most important character-development books of them all, is Traitor, because you see the beginning of Jacen's internal conflict.

I agree. I just finished Refugee, and as I look back, I can testify that after Star by Star, things really start to pick up. Especially in the later books, the Vong start to become much, much, MUCH deeper as a race. While I was reading Balance Point, I was starting to slow down. Star by Star really dragged for me, and I took the next few really slowly. But after those, the series gets a lot better. Stick with it. It's worth it. It's not just Jacen's internal conflict that you can start to see at that point. Individual books may not be as character-driven as Traitor, but the overall story arc does quite a bit, I think.

I have read all of the Nre Jedi Order, all of Legacy of the Force and currently reading Fate of the Jedi. I absolutely love the New Jedi Order!!! I pretty much live there in my head:)

LOVE,LOVE,LOVE the Solo kids..... If you haven't read all the books you really should before reading Legacy of the Force. It really helps to see where they (Jacen especially) came from to understand where they end up.

It took me awhile to get into this series. For some reason Vector Prime turned me off but the idea of a new species not part of the Force was so fascinating I gave this book a second try months after I put it down. This is now my favourite story arc in the expanded universe.

I liked everything about the Yuuzhan Vong - their warrior mentality, their disdain for technology, their mutilations, everything. I liked the way both sides continually adapted to changing tactics during the war. And I absolutely loved the fact that important characters started to die from this point.

By far my favourite books were the Edge of Victory: Conquest and Rebirth. The outcast (whose name I actually can't remember) and Jedi relationship in those two books were... I don't have a word here, but that was the highlight of this series for me.

I also really enjoyed Conquest! Loved Anakin's journey to save Tahiri and his discovery that there was more to the Yuuzhan Vong than the Jedi realized. Vau.... I belief was the fallen warriors name. I agree it was awesome to see them develope a friendship and mutual respect for one another. Very good book. Rebirth was also great but I didn't enjoy it quite as much as Conquest. I'm glad you stuck it out and kept reding the NJO. I agree that they are the best the EU has to offer:)

I just could not get into the Legacy of the Force, book 1 anyway, Betrayal. I got exactly 50% through and didn't read it for about a week or two then decided to just read some other books at the beginning of March. So I read Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor by Matthew Stover and I enjoyed it, a good return to the more classic time period. Then I went and read a book even better than that which takes place half a year ABY and stars Mara as the Emperors Hand, a band of renegade stormtroopers and of course Luke,Han,Leia and Chewie. 5 stars easily. I guess a sequel for it comes out this summer, "Choices of One". Both being by Timothy Zahn.

Of course I will return to the Legacy series and that time era later, I think I just needed a break and a return to the more classic times for awhile.

I am reading Splinter of the Minds Eye right now, and its great considering its just working off of the first movie, and it paved the way for the rest of the expanded universe.

William wrote: "I just could not get into the Legacy of the Force, book 1 anyway, Betrayal. I got exactly 50% through and didn't read it for about a week or two then decided to just read some other books at the beginning o.."

This is what I did too. I got a little tired of the NJO, so went right from Traitor to Betrayal. But I only got a few chapters into Betrayal before I put it down. I'll pick it up again later, but right now I want to read the second Darth Bane book before I forget the first one.

I'm still deciding if I want to read the Jedi Apprentice or Jedi Quest series. They're both for a younger audience, but I like the idea of series about Obi-Wan's life before he was Anakin's teacher.

I guess I was lucky about this. Last summer, I lived in Japan for two months, and since I was reading the library's copy of Star by Star, I was kind of forced to take a break. After that, I've been kind of slow. But recently, I've sped up. I think my favorite book in the whole series is The Final Prophecy. I think it really makes it feel like things are getting close to the end, and it really ratchets up the intensity. I'm about halfway through The Unifying Force, and I think that The Final Prophecy will be overtaken by the time I'm done.

I am about to start reading the fifth NJO novel Jedi's Eclipse and is there somewhere in following books explained why Yuuzhan Vongs are invisible in the Force or will Jedi somehow solve this problem? I'm just curious if yes or no, I don't want any spoilers about what it is. Thanks :)