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Post your spoilers for the in depth look at the Prologue and Chapter Sets I, II, and III, for The Curse of the Mistwraith. PLEASE NOTE: Do Not post spoilers for chapter sets beyond III if you have read ahead in the story.

A relief topic will be provided for that. If you are not sure if a comment fits here, or if you just can't handle the strain (grin) POST A WARNING and make sure to UNCHECK the add to Update Feed box or all your friends will see your post.

There will be a trivia contest at the close of this book's discussion with prizes.

Post your favorite line, if you like.

I will be adding supporting material and Fun Stuff.

Meantime - watch the Prologue, because it sets up the whole cascade. This is a story that asks you to make choices as a reader, then makes an enjoyable ride of reversing that initial opinion.

Were you caught out in the first three chapter sets, and if so, where?

Ahh, the early chapters of CotMW. I look back at that first exploration fondly, as I was getting my first exposure to that tale.

That, and trying to find that stuff on the map.

I reread the prologue last night. It had been a little while since I read it the first time. I don't think I paid too much attention to it then. I am really amazed how much you packed into those three or four paragraphs. There is so much you tell the reader, but if you haven't read much into it, it can easily be missed. I'm trying to get my brother to read it. He's inbetween books right now. Now that I'm reading your series, I'm eager to share it.

Chris wrote: "Ahh, the early chapters of CotMW. I look back at that first exploration fondly, as I was getting my first exposure to that tale.

That, and trying to find that stuff on the map."

Chris - I am hanging my head! Jon's comment, and yours now - I was SO remiss! - that splinter worlds map sequence WILL be done, soon as I can pass go with this manuscript about to be turned in.

The forest for the trees - grin - this has to be the loudest Author Head-smack from a reader's comment, ever...grin. I have seldom felt so DUMB!

Amelia wrote: "I reread the prologue last night. It had been a little while since I read it the first time. I don't think I paid too much attention to it then. I am really amazed how much you packed into those ..."

Oh, so easily missed! If not forgotten utterly, once the action starts. What particularly struck you?

(General Note: Coming Soon: The Making of the Splinter Worlds)

It's cool, Janny. It really didn't take me long to figure out what was going on. I want to say that the blurb on the back of the book even gave me a clue that they started out in a splinter world.

But seriously, I'd love to see anything on the splinter worlds.

Chris wrote: "It's cool, Janny. It really didn't take me long to figure out what was going on. I want to say that the blurb on the back of the book even gave me a clue that they started out in a splinter world.
..."

Chris - I dug about into the rats' nest of notes and found the material I needed - it's now on the desk, being eyed for revisions to synch it up with the first three chapters in Mistwraith. (typed verbatim, it would clue too much, we'll let the story do that, but remember to ask me to revisit the idea later and amend it to match later volumes.)

For a teaser (Until I retailor the material) - the Splinter worlds were created by the Fellowship, working in concert with - something Else, not yet mentioned. We will get there in due time.

And yes, there are two mentions of the splinter worlds: one in the blurb, and the other in that explosively packed little prologue...I did design the style to slow down skimming, so that details like this aren't skipped over, but, grin, it takes awhile for readers to catch the drift and not rush.

For which I cannot blame them, I've read some books that present a welter of detail that doesn't build or go anywhere, so it may take a bit to overcome the presupposition.

Part of the fun of this 'in depth' is we'll pull little things like this into focus.

Stuff like Davien's inscription on The Five Centuries' Fountain - and What It Was Built For - and why the Shadows of Mearth are what they are - this was not gratuitous creation 'just to give the characters longevity' - oh no! If I were to unveil all that little fragment intersects - grin. Those items were 'created' in - get this - 1973! That is how foundational these concepts are...although the why's behind them will not emerge one instant beforetime.

Who do you think Davien is, and why do you think he may have made this well - ?

For that matter, what are the Gates? How might they work? Who built them?

I will have the (pertinent) background material on the Splinter World of Dascen Elur shortly.

I have now read the first bit and absolutely no farther so I think I can safely comment.
There are a lot of bits that I don't have connected to other bits yet but enough of the story of the brothers to keep me from being completely frustrated.

@Janny: Oh, oh! I can't wait. Maps of Descen Elur and more information on the splinter worlds.

Hmm ... in 1973 I was eight or nine. I think I was reading Nancy Drew mysteries, or Black Beauty, or Little House on the Prairie. Meanwhile, you're crafting an entire universe. :)

Just re-read the Prologue (probably the fifth time) and dissected it in light of having reading the next few revelations (up to most of Fugitive Prince. Incredible impactful compact prologue.

I planned to reread with this discussion and, of course, am now on p.456. But the Prologue is quite dense, and gives hints, of course, as to the characters of the two princes. But it makes me sad, too, knowing what I know from having read the series so far. I will leave it at that, just giving a hint to those who are reading for the first time.

I certainly wondered who the hell Davien was and what was the purpose of the well -- just to benefit random wanderers?

And why are the gates beyond the ruins of Mearth with it's attendant curse? And yes, who built the gates and why?

After looking at these chapters again, I'm wondering what the deal is with the princes passing through two gates. There was the World's End gate that the fishermen threw Lysaer through, then there was the red desert, then the World gate that they passed through to get to Athera. I don't recall seeing any explanation of that particular configuration anywhere. Is the Red Desert a buffer zone between Athera and the splinter worlds? I assume the gates were built by the Paravians and maybe it even says that somewhere. Does anyone remember?

Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "I reread the prologue last night. It had been a little while since I read it the first time. I don't think I paid too much attention to it then. I am really amazed how much you pac..."

I completely missed that Lysaer was "divinity incarnate". That really stuck out to me being especially pertinent to where I am in my reading. I also thought it was interesting that Arithon is attributed "attributes of saint and mystic".

I also thought that it was very interesting that it gives us what history records have shown what both brothers were, or what it recorded them to be and then what the lost records suggested could be. It also really stuck out that this was a scrying of events to help us determine the truth.

Marty wrote: "I have now read the first bit and absolutely no farther so I think I can safely comment.
There are a lot of bits that I don't have connected to other bits yet but enough of the story of the brot..."

Welcome in, Marty - unlike many books this one will show you and not tell you how everything fits. It will all make solid sense in good time - plenty of help here, feel free to ask if need be, this is far more than just a 'survival' story.

Jon wrote: "@Janny: Oh, oh! I can't wait. Maps of Descen Elur and more information on the splinter worlds.

Hmm ... in 1973 I was eight or nine. I think I was reading Nancy Drew mysteries, or Black Beaut..."

I was really and TRULY bored with school of any kind, and plenty angsty with the world as I saw it...some of this began with what a world Might look like - I was writing Paravian (yes, there is this wierd script all over my history notes, my teachers made acid comments about this) when I should have been listening in class...and when it came time to give this conflict a 'setting' - well, Athera was already in the making, as it were.

Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "I planned to reread with this discussion and, of course, am now on p.456. But the Prologue is quite dense, and gives hints, of course, as to the characters of the two princes. But it makes me sad..."

Sandra - grin - how CAN you know?
The Sages had to unearth the entire story.
Which is yet being written; Arc III's closure is not the final line... :)

Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "I certainly wondered who the hell Davien was and what was the purpose of the well -- just to benefit random wanderers?

And why are the gates beyond the ruins of Mearth with it's attendant curse? ..."

All in due time! The making of the splinter worlds (yes, they are several, to each gate, all linked) has to do with forces on Athera - let's have the readers get there. Installment I goes up, today. It will be added to, as the read progresses, so that the entries are staged per volume to avoid spoilerific material.

Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "After looking at these chapters again, I'm wondering what the deal is with the princes passing through two gates. There was the World's End gate that the fishermen threw Lysaer through, then there..."

The Gates were not built by the Paravians.

Dascen Elur is its own planet.
The gate from there leads to Racinne Pasy, itself another planet.
The gate from Racinne Pasy leads to Athera.

This complex (Dascen Elur/Racinne Pasy) constitutes the splinter worlds past West Gate. And the map does show there is a North Gate, an East Gate, and a South Gate.

Amelia wrote: "Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "I reread the prologue last night. It had been a little while since I read it the first time. I don't think I paid too much attention to it then. I am really amazed ho..."

Bingo....how many readers miss this... :)

Re the prologue, I really do like the idea that "history is written by the winners" and here's a chance to see what REALLY happened. I do like that idea.

It's something I wonder about in our own history sometimes, but without a seer or a time machine, I guess we'll never know.

The prologue worries me. I can't really articulate why exactly. But if that record of history prevails, then what does that mean for the future that history resides in?

orannia wrote: "The prologue worries me. I can't really articulate why exactly. But if that record of history prevails, then what does that mean for the future that history resides in?"

Me, too orannia. It implies that whatever the real story is, (which we of course don't know yet as Janny points out above) the predominant world view is that Lysaer was divine enough to have established a religion that survives until the 7th Age. Makes me all squicky and my skin hurts to think about that!

Ugh. Exactly what I was thinking as I re-read the prologue. Similar to what happened happened on the splinter world (see different post in different thread on Dascen Elur). So sad to envision those to planets dominated by an Alliance of Light worldview.

When Janny put "post your favorite line" in the opening post, I immediately thought of this paragraph describing Arithon's drugged hallucination/vision:

Arithon shouted, tormented by the image of a fleet under the leopard banner of s'Ffalenn. 'Stop them! Somebody stop them!' Vast unreasoning rage lent him a giant's proportions. He reached out with hands the size of mountains and tried to fence the brigantines in the harbour. There were sons, fathers, and brothers on board who would never return. But wind swelled the dirt-red sails; the vessels slipped free of fingers robbed of strength.

When I read that paragraph, I knew I'd be reading many more books by Janny Wurts.

Beautiful quote, Stefan.

Janny wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "After looking at these chapters again, I'm wondering what the deal is with the princes passing through two gates. There was the World's End gate that the fishermen threw Ly..."

OK! That explains it! And believe me, I've poured over those maps enough that I saw the gates on it. I just couldn't put them together with the way Arithon and Lysaer got to Athera. Amazing.

Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

Arithon looked up. Bemused by the irony, he sa..."

Just call me Sandra, Jeff. I felt very sad knowing the brothers were going to be at each other's throats later.

Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

Arithon looked up. Bemused by the irony, he sa..."

I wondered that as well. Mostly with Arithon though. Lysaer seemed to be biding his time until he could kill Arithon - he realized he needed him to get out of the desert, but that didn't mean he wanted to forgive and forget. Arithon didn't seem like he wanted to fight at all ever. Made me seriously wonder what was going to happen to turn it all sour (on Arithon's part).

Dawn wrote: "Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

Arithon looked up. Bemused by the i..."

Oh my. You have treats in store.

Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Dawn wrote: "Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

Arithon looked up. Bem..."

Well I have finished the first book, so the reason they fight has been at least slightly revealed to me.. But I'm sure there is a lot lot lot more that I haven't seen yet. Which is why I love this series!

Kerry wrote: "Re the prologue, I really do like the idea that "history is written by the winners" and here's a chance to see what REALLY happened. I do like that idea.

It's something I wonder about in our own..."

Dawn, for some aspects of history, I do agree. For others, the evidence exists, but one has to sift for it. John Prebble's books on Scottish history were all very carefully assembled from the historical figures' contemporary views - from archived records, documents, written opinions of what one person thought of another, or thought of the opposition - the picture that emerges is quite stunning and unlike the suppositions drawn by most works done by historians.

The same for Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West by Dee Brown - the words of the people, pulled out of translator's accounts (written) and documents and treaties - heart wrenching and immediate. I have long felt that books such as these should be required reading for history courses.

But the effort of documentation - enormous.

On a lighter note, the work that Laura Hillenbrand did on her documentary Seabiscuit: An American Legend required YEARS - she pieced together one famous race horse's career - bit by bit, tracking down all the available information.

Few trouble to care that deeply, even about events in our own time and world.

So much richness is lost, and so much understanding might be gained.

orannia wrote: "The prologue worries me. I can't really articulate why exactly. But if that record of history prevails, then what does that mean for the future that history resides in?"

Orannia - you will have to read and find out. The written record (surviving) is not definitive - why the sages did their purposeful search to see truly.

Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "orannia wrote: "The prologue worries me. I can't really articulate why exactly. But if that record of history prevails, then what does that mean for the future that history resides in?"

Me, too or..."

? Sandra - where does it SAY the religion survives till the Seventh Age? We have the pantheon in Greek Mythology - does that mean that religion is prevalent today? Just food for thought....do you think after Four Ages on Athera, the society there will still view religious scripture from that far back in time the same way?

Does spirituality evolve?

Stefan wrote: "When Janny put "post your favorite line" in the opening post, I immediately thought of this paragraph describing Arithon's drugged hallucination/vision:

Arithon shouted, tormented by the image of ..."

Nice choice, Stefan.

When we are teens and young, we ARE giants in our dreams. We rearrange the world the way we wish it, all the time. Then we smack headlong into defeats - and we hurt too much, and forget to dream big, except over our failures.

I saw this drug fired moment illustrating that poignant break very clearly. The giant dreams come to naught. And a character at a low - too often in such lows, we quit fighting.

We forget to pick ourselves up and dream as giants, unless something or someone or some inspiration kicks us clear out of the frame of our defeat.

Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

Arithon looked up. Bemused by the irony, he sa..."

The legacy of the Five Centuries' Fountain is not going to allow these characters a 'simple retreat' or a snapshot view of the impact of their actions - they are going to be around to see the follow through into the next generation(s) - How would we live on Earth if this were the case?

And more poignantly - WHY did Davien build this little piece of work in the first place? He had a purpose. And, for a fillip - the Shadows of Mearth ONCE were the ward, to guard it.

Muse on that. One could not gain access without crossing the shadows' influence...

Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "After looking at these chapters again, I'm wondering what the deal is with the princes passing through two gates. There was the World's End gate that the fish..."

:) - That's why I need to map the splinter worlds...I see another sheaf of stuff going into that Compendium Volume folder. You guys are devils for that...may that sort of poke continue, it's fun.

Dawn wrote: "Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

Arithon looked up. Bemused by the i..."

Upcoming. :)

Janny wrote: "Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

Arithon looked up. Bemused by the i..."

This whole discussion is driving me crazy! In a good way. It makes me want to inhale all of the books at once so I can know all there is to know right now. It's awesome. But since I can't inhale them I'll just have to take it slow and savor each as they come, devouring all the information piece by piece. I'm so glad I started reading this series!

Dawn wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Dawn wrote: "Jeff wrote: "My favorite line in these chapter sets was referenced above by Sandra aka Sleo when Lysaer asked Arithon what the inscription on the wheel said.

..."

Holler if you need the 'relief spoiler' thread, I will create it.

A line that I really liked:

Lirenda to Elaira (in Transgression): "You'll learn prudence." Lirenda tilted her head with the grace of a cat stalking prey. I can so see that in my head!!

Well, Janny, you devil you, what it SAYS is, "If the canons of the religion founded during that period are reliable, the lord of light was divinity incarnate......" Into which I apparently READ, it's still a religion! Bah! A pox on all assumptions, sneaky little things that they are.

I must say that takes a load off, and I feel much, much better :D.

Just food for thought....do you think after Four Ages on Athera, the society there will still view religious scripture from that far back in time the same way?

*thinks* Not necessarily. Some religions have survived some haven't...

Sandra - I misread it too. That's the thing with this series - nuances *grin* That's why I'm so glad we're reading it slowly.

orannia wrote: "Just food for thought....do you think after Four Ages on Athera, the society there will still view religious scripture from that far back in time the same way?

*thinks* Not necessarily. Some rel..."

Well, you guys, you will now have to read and find out - but you are lucky here, because readers have angsted about this particular bit for a long while, now, and I never gave them the grace of pointing out the ambiguity...why do you think just about EVERYBODY reads the worst into this line?

That amazes me - somewhere there is a fundamental assumption going on, that folks believe is rigid, and not breakable. What could the box be, that locks opinion into rigidity in this situation?

Okay, so I just finished the Exile set and could finally read through this spoiler thread. Lots to think about, as many of you have posted already. I'm definitely wondering about some of the things you all mentioned - what IS the deal with that fountain? How is it that the events we're learning about here have been so mis-remembered in the history of Athera? I'm also wondering about the history of Dascen Elur - what happened between those princes who first were exiled through the Worldsend gate that made their descendants such bitter enemies? Is it simply what was implied that Karthan lacks farmland and must resort to piracy for survival, or was there more to it than that?

These questions are giving me food for thought, but my main interest in this and in any book is the characters. It doesn't matter how fabulously inspired the plotting of a book is if the characters don't interest me. And these two definitely have me intrigued. Even in these first few pages (can more than 100 pages be called a few?) my opinion of Lysaer has flip-flopped all over the place, which I'm sure was intended, and I'm fascinated. At first he seemed like a prince with integrity, whose value was overlooked by his obsessive father, doing his best to act with honor. I admired his insistence on taking responsibility for his captive and standing up to the king. Then, after being tossed through the gate and ending up in the desert with Arithon, I had no sympathy for him at all. Arithon was scrupulously fair and the way Lysaer responded was rigid and supremely annoying. And yet, later on he redeemed himself when he began to question his initial judgment and realize that maybe the worldview he'd inherited from his father was a wee bit incomplete.

I viewed Arithon in a positive light right away, mostly because of the hints we were given in the prologue. But I'm sure he's not going to be presented as unambiguously good, either :)

Speaking of ambiguity, is it supposed to be worlds end gate or world send gate? Or is that on purpose too? :)

I just love being at the beginning of a series that I know is going to enthrall me for a long time. It's delicious!

Shel wrote: "Speaking of ambiguity, is it supposed to be worlds end gate or world send gate? Or is that on purpose too? :)..."

See, I knew you lot would spot lots of things that whiz right over my head. I only saw 'world's end gate'. Got me thinking now and that can't be good for me.

Shel, sorry for the informality of 'you lot', where are my manners.

It's really fun to read all of your comments and if I weren't so tired, I'd say more about it. Richard, I'm glad you're enjoying the read and hope it continues to hold your interest -- since 'hard' science fiction seems to be your comfort zone.

Richard wrote: "Shel, sorry for the informality of 'you lot', where are my manners. "

LOL! I prefer informality, actually :)

Did anyone note that high mage's threat/curse upon the King of Amroth in the Tracer subchapter? It made me wonder if he might have set the stage or seeds for the Curse to take root in Arithon and Lysaer on Dascen Elur (notwithstanding the seven generation old blood feud between Amroth and Karthan).

I did notice it, but hadn't thought of that. I think that the seeds of the curse were there in the seven generations of hatred. Perhaps it's just hard for that kind of hatred to take root in a soul filled with love and compassion? An interesting philosophical discussion.