Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Rory Gallagher wrote: "Michael,
Did you read Mein Kampf? Years ago I tried to push myself through it, and it was very bland and rambling. I honestly don't remember if I finished it, but I know I reached a point that it w..."

I tried to read "Mein Kampf" (in German). It was a family "heirloom" (LOL); that is, it had been a mandatory purchase during the Third Reich (and my in-laws had kept the book, while my family had got rid of it). I didn't get past page 3 as it made me gag, and I didn't wish to end up with chronic gastritis.

Hitler wasn't only evil; he was stupid, too. However, he had an unusual ability to fascinate and influence people, especially people with little education. (Mind you, he also had a lot of educated followers; most of these were career-hungry opportunists. Some were dreamers.)

Hi Lilo,
Thanks for sharing. I beg to disagree with one point---Hitler was undeniably evil, but I have a very difficult time using the "stupid" moniker even though some decisions apply. No, he could be very sharp. Three examples:
1. By all accounts a man who read and memorized facts, filing away for future use, like a Good Will Hunting reciting verbatim page such and such to impress friends in a bar.
He used that talent to silence opposition and impress small minds, from the public to the followers of the beer hall putsch to Jodl and Keitel.

2. Give the devil his due---he recognized importance of autobahn and expanded and backed its construction. He is also credited for idea of what became the Volkswagen beetle(or as my 9 year old calls it--"punch buggy"). Idea was to emulate America's a car in every garage. While we deplore his success in Munich, Austria, Norway, Lowlands, and France, you can't deny it was successful, although he didn't do it all by himself, it would be hard to prove those "victories" would not have happened without him.
All of this allowed for popular support, and difficult for any opposition to develop.

3. He had a genius for motivating people. Goebbels may have helped, but really it was his speeches from the early days through 1942 to 1943). Motivational speaking at its most powerful--and most evil. I can't say highly enough, for non-German speakers--note to self, Lilo is German!--Domarus' translations are really eye-opening. Lilo--he has the German edition as well.

No, I don't like him, definitely an evil and hateful man, but I never attribute his rise to power to stupidity or simply dismiss him as a monstrous aberration in the dustbin of history. It is important to recognize what he did so we don't get fooled again as the WHO song goes.

Again, no offense intended to anyone so don't be offended. Please feel free to disagree with me, and if you are going to curse me, please be creative and not try for Quentin Tarantino's record of using the F-word. Instead emulate Steve Martin's reply to personal insults in Roxanne.
Thanks!

Rory

Rory Gallagher wrote: "Hi Lilo,
Thanks for sharing. I beg to disagree with one point---Hitler was undeniably evil, but I have a very difficult time using the "stupid" moniker even though some decisions apply. No, he cou..."

Hi, Rory,

I am so terribly sorry that I didn't respond to your comment of Aug. 18 any earlier. The reason is: I just found it this very minute. I keep getting lost on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ, and even within our group. I never remember on which discussion thread I have commented and, thus, might find some comments in reply.

Please give me some time to respond. (I am presently trying to get dinner ready.)

Up-front: People can be intelligent in certain ways and stupid in others. Hitler certainly had talents. But let's discuss this later. I would not want my poor husband to starve.

@ Rory: I am back.

Hitler was a megalomaniac, and he also had other mental issues, which I will leave up to psychiatrists to diagnose.

One thing about megalomaniacs: They are so occupied with their own imagined greatness that their brains get clouded and they talk and act in a stupid way.

Hitler certainly had a special talent to manipulate people to the point to almost hypnotizing them. He was capable to trigger mass hysteria.

My (adoptive) grandmother had once gone to one of his rallies (before my birth, that is, before 1939), out of curiosity. She kept telling about Hitler's piercing eyes that were capable to hypnotize the masses.

Megalomaniacs tend to find followers, which Hitler certainly did.

Hitler's idea about the Volkswagen (was it really his idea? I don't know) was good, and it might have put a car in every garage as there were hardly any private garages (LOL). Seriously, in our town of about 5,000 inhabitants, I knew of only 3 cars (2 of the local family doctors, 1 of the "Kreisleiter" [= Nazi county official], plus, supposedly, an ambulance car). Well, maybe I missed a couple of cars owned by the Gestapo or some other Nazi officials. Yet even high SS-guys did not have cars.

Who is Domarus? I never heard of him.

I attribute Hitler's rise to power a lot to the stupidity of the uneducated masses of German people. Two SS war criminals we knew had been ball boys at the tennis court where my mother had played in earlier years. My mother kept telling that they were unbelievably stupid and would have never gotten anywhere, had Hitler not opened them a fantastic career with the SS.

I am certainly not offended, Rory. I wouldn't know any reason why I should be. And I don't even think that we disagree. One cannot get all the facets of Hitler's personality into a comment.

And I think I can manage without the f-word even where I am mad at people. :-) Btw, what is Steve Martin's reply to personal insults in Roxanne? (I guess I have a gap of education here.)

I think I need an f-word for you, after all: FANTASTICALLY well-read and well-informed! (Hope I shocked you.)

Seriously now: You are so right. We have to be aware that there still is a danger that something horrible, similar to the Third Reich, might happen again. It has already happened in other parts of the world, and I think it can also happen again in so-called civilized countries. I can even give you the basic "recipe" for something like this to happen. It is as follows:

"Man nehme" ("one take" - this is how old German recipes start) a power-hungry leader (preferably with megalomaniac tendencies), add some 'not-so-intelligent' followers, stir them up to bully and hatemonger against all opponents (and maybe some minority), rely on herd instinct (and possibly mass hysteria), wait for the evil in this ganged-up crowd to rise like yeast -- and voila!"

The ingredients are right here on the internet, even here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ (read the discussion thread of Kemper's review of "In the Garden of Beasts", by Erik Larsen -- start reading the thread from Sept. 1, 2013) , and they are already getting stirred (while not yet cooked).

And while Kemper is unlikely to rise as a second Hitler, the dynamic is the same. Likewise, you will be able to find similar, and worse, bullying and hatemongering (against all kinds of people and ethnic groups) on Facebook.

And again, there are only few people standing up against these bullies and hatemongers because decent people are not keen to argue with megalomaniacs, bullies, and hatemongers. And this is exactly how Hitler came into power. The opportunists and (more or less) stupid, power-hungry, and egotistic masses followed him; and the wiser and/or more decent people practised well-mannered reserve and didn't speak up ... until it was too late.

Mind you, this is all rather simplified as this is only a comment and not supposed to become a book.

Always ready and willing to discuss this topic with you, Rory, or anybody else.

Rory Gallagher wrote: "Michael,
Did you read Mein Kampf? Years ago I tried to push myself through it, and it was very bland and rambling. I honestly don't remember if I finished it, but I know I reached a point that it w..."

Leni Riefenstahl's films and documentaries were very influential, and the style was admittedly copied by Frank Capra for the American propaganda war in WW II. I interviewed and knew Leni very well, as well as Frank Capra Jr, the elder's son, who was a film producer when I worked in the industry. Also watch Leni's film "Olympia"

@ Colin: How could you stomach interviewing all these Nazi-celebrities? Didn't it make you sick?

Can anyone recommend any biographies of Teddy Roosevelt Jr. or Terry Allen. Are there any??

Chad: Here's one I have, but have not read yet:

"Theodore Roosevelt, Jr: The Life of a War Hero" by H. Paul Jeffers

Hi Chad,

I have a copy of this book on 'Terrible' Terry Allen in my library but I have not read it yet:

by Gerald Astor

Lilo wrote: "@ Colin: How could you stomach interviewing all these Nazi-celebrities? Didn't it make you sick?"

I was OK with interviewing these people. I went into these projects without any predisposed ideas. I just wanted honest dialogue. I actually became friends with two SS generals, Otto Kumm being the best, and all of who were in fact opposed to the Holocaust and cleared by the Allies after the war. One SS colonel actually personally saved lives and prevented deportation to Auschwitz many survivors of the Warsaw Uprising. However, there were some who shocked me, such as Karl Wolff, Gerhard Klopfer and Max Wuensche.

Colin wrote: "Lilo wrote: "@ Colin: How could you stomach interviewing all these Nazi-celebrities? Didn't it make you sick?"

I was OK with interviewing these people. I went into these projects without any predi..."

Spoken like a true historian, Colin. Well done! I'm second on the list for Star of Africa at my library. :-)

Colin wrote: "Lilo wrote: "@ Colin: How could you stomach interviewing all these Nazi-celebrities? Didn't it make you sick?"

I was OK with interviewing these people. I went into these projects without any predi..."

I don't think I could have stomached those who shocked you. Nice to hear that, at least, not ALL SS men were monsters. (There is also one in my memoir who wasn't.)

Brigadefuehrer Otto Kumm was almost court martialed for calling Himmler an idiot for using the trains for transporting civilians, when the German military was starving for lack of supplies.

Who has read a good, well-balanced biography of Tito? I'm looking for one.

Get the Djilas book.

Colin wrote: "Get the Djilas book."

You would consider Djilas' bio of Tito as well balanced?

I would say perhaps not balanced since he had a bias, but it provides good insight from his perspective, on a personal level.

Please give me recommendations for first-hand accounts or memoirs by pilots or crew of WW II flying boats: PBY Catalinas, Short Sunderlands, Blohn & Voss 138, Kawanishi H6K Mavis, Martin Mariner, etc. I received some recs from GeeVee today and would appreciate any additional suggestions. Thanks.

Manray9 just done a Google and think I have found Flying Boat heaven for you - when you hit the home site click on Index and the world is your oyster especially the books page :)

Geevee wrote: "Manray9 just done a Google and think I have found Flying Boat heaven for you - when you hit the home site click on Index and the world is your oyster especially the books page :) ..."

Thanks. I've googled it before and didn't find this!

Nice find Geevee!

Some group members may not know about Edward R. Hamilton Books in Connecticut. They have a large selection of books on many subjects -- almost all publishers close-outs. They have over 1,400 WW I and WW II books and DVDs. Just today I noticed a few books which have been mentioned among our group -- including:

The Taste for War by Lizzie Collingham. It is only $7.95 in hardcover.

A Dawn Like Thunder by Robert Mrazek. In hardcover for only $4.95.

Pacific Crucible by Ian Toll for $6.95 in hardcover.

Tears in the Darkness by Michael & Elizabeth Norman. It's only $4.95 in hardcover.

There are hundreds more. Hamilton offers flat-rate shipping of $3.50 -- one book or a dozen.

The link is:

Perhaps luckily for me they don't ship outside the US :(

Geevee wrote: "Perhaps luckily for me they don't ship outside the US :("

Hamilton still sends out printed catalogues by subject area. I receive one or two per month. I see it as a test of my will.

My name is Manray9 and I am a biblioholic ;)

Lets not start that Geevee, half the group will be there!

Geevee wrote: "My name is Manray9 and I am a biblioholic ;)"

It's not a secret.

Geevee wrote: "My name is Manray9 and I am a biblioholic ;)"

Yeah, and I'm the only one?

Okay so you shame me...my name is Geevee and I'm a bookaholic.

Manray9 wrote: "Geevee wrote: "My name is Manray9 and I am a biblioholic ;)"

Yeah, and I'm the only one?"

Certainly not Manray9 :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Geevee wrote: "My name is Manray9 and I am a biblioholic ;)"

Yeah, and I'm the only one?"

Certainly not Manray9 :)"

Oh, I am too, but we have an expression about the pot calling the kettle black. You know that one?

I've heard of it :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I've heard of it :)"

I finished my annual household book purge with a donation of 17 hardcovers and 23 paperbacks to the local library. I'm trying to have fewer books around the house, not more. It isn't working out.

I've been doing the same thing Manray9, making space for the expected Christmas arrivals. I try to do a purge once a year but it gets harder each year as you are left with a core base of books that are your favourites or are yet to be read.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I've been doing the same thing Manray9, making space for the expected Christmas arrivals. I try to do a purge once a year but it gets harder each year as you are left with a core base of books that..."

Exactly. In the U.S. if you give books to a public library you qualify for a tax deduction -- so it's good in two ways. I get a little thrill when seeing one of my good hardcovers on the shelf at the library.

I wasn't aware of that in regards to donated books to the library, that's a pretty good idea! I tend to sell mine to a few second hand dealers for credit so I can buy more books :)

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I wasn't aware of that in regards to donated books to the library, that's a pretty good idea! I tend to sell mine to a few second hand dealers for credit so I can buy more books :)"

I sell too, but only those few of significant value. Usually I take the tax deduction.

Good idea, I also tend to feed my younger brothers 'habit' by supplying him with books.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Good idea, I also tend to feed my younger brothers 'habit' by supplying him with books."

Recently I sold a copy of:

Crisis on the Frontier by Brian Robson online for $88.00.

I've got a copy of that book (unread of course), that's a good return on that book, well done!

I normally give the books to the school library (that's just directly above my office). Those of us who retire from the school can get to use the library for life. So in a way that's my 'temporary' storage area and then in 20 years' time I can go and re-read the books. And I would know which ones were given by me, I normally write my name at a tiny corner on the last page.

Which reminds me of an incident (off the discussion topic). One of the university textbooks that I got rid of was on a subject that I hated. I sold it to a used book store. Years later when I started teaching I was assigned to teach that subject. I wanted to get a textbook as a guide, went back to the same used bookstore, and saw my own copy there. I sold it for $5 and it was selling for $15. I just couldn't make myself buy it.

Now don't you just hate that! Very funny story Chin Joo :)

I shall look out for books with the CJ intials, nice story Chin Joo :)

Travelin,

If you haven't seen these - they are very good primers




Eric Hammel has some very good illustrated histories of the Marines in the Pacific

This list is nowhere inclusive, but here are three that I own





Very good photos that are rarely published.

A couple on the air war that I read as a kid are by Edward Jablonski




and last but by no means least


This was probably the book that started my fascination with B-17s in particular and WW II in general.

Travelin wrote: "I bought this book World At War because it was 2 pounds and full of illustrations.

I have every reason to doubt the credentials of its writer.

At any rate, it has an early picture..."

I would doubt them too. Allow me to recommend:

The Eagle Unbowed by Halik Kochansky.

Kochansky's history of the Polish campaign is thorough and complete. He very effectively explodes the myth of Polish cavalry attacks against German tanks.

There is widespread documentation that the last mounted cavalry charge in military history was conducted by three squadrons of the Italian 3rd Savoia Cavalry under Colonel Count Alessandro Bettoni-Cazzago (a renowned Italian Olympic equestrian competitor) against Soviet forces at Izbushensky on the Don River on August 24, 1942 -- almost three years after the Polish campaign.

Like other armies in Europe Poland was going through mechanisation and there were some Polish cavalry still equipped in the horsed mode during the German invasion. As I understand they were used far more intelligently than is normally given credit by deploying in an infantry role having an ability to move into action quickly and creating some difficulties for the Germans. Well trained and disciplined mounted troops would also be able to disengage and move relatively quickly within areas where armour needs to be highly cautious (built up or forested areas) and the cavalry did create early some difficulties for the Germans. Of course even these small units that had some success were overcome, outflanked or outpaced by the size and scale of the German all-arms battle plans.

I wonder if the photos were of pre-war Polish cavalry with lances?

What a great photo thanks for posting. If you were caught by them out in the open as infantry it would be unpleasant but of course as the Poles well knew there was little chance for lancers against well equipped modern units.

I'm my recent theme read by Barrie Pitt there was mention of an Italian cavalry charge, the last faced by th e British army and I thought this might be of interest:

as coincidence would have it, this book has the picture
from Travelin's link, The text says

" .. as on one occassion when a brigade of horse cavalry armed with lances attacked a Nazi tank column.

while the caption says: Polish Calvary -- here
shown during maneuvers -- tried to stop Nazi panzers
and were slaughtered.



Our earlier group read,
has this about the fall of Warsaw, pg 22,

Capt Krysk of Rudnicki's third squadron declared emotionally that he rejected the order (to surrender) : "Tomorrow morning we shall charge the Germans to preserve the regimental tradition that the 9th Lancers never surrender."

He was talked out of it.

So while the charge may never have occurred, there certainly was the will. "

Travelin wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Travelin wrote: "I bought this book World At War because it was 2 pounds and full of illustrations.

I have every reason to doubt the credentials of its writer.

At ..."

The Italian charge isn't better known because it took place on the Eastern Front and was conducted by Italians.

Travelin wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Travelin wrote: "I bought this book World At War because it was 2 pounds and full of illustrations.

I have every reason to doubt the credentials of its writer.

At ..."

Was this the photo? It's a commonly used one of Polish lancers.



Use of mounted infantry was widespread by the Soviets on the Eastern Front. It seems the shaggy Siberian ponies handled cold weather well and moved easily through snow and ice. German General von Manstein is credited as saying: "A Soviet cavalry division can move, in its entirety, a hundred kilometers in a night � and that at a tangent to the axis of communication." They did not fight as cavalry.