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´³±ð²Ô’s comments from the Reading the Chunksters group.

Dianne wrote: "Jen wrote: "I agree that Yuri seems to be a bit removed, he's the observer of things. And maybe that is his training as a doctor, that's what they do right - observe and then put the pieces togethe..."

Hi Dianne - sorry for the delay in replying here. I would recommend it, but I would also warn that it is devastating. The story is amazing and complex and just perfectly woven, but it is also absolutely brutal. I felt beat up by the book, but I do think it's worth reading, just take a strong stomach with you.

I agree that Yuri seems to be a bit removed, he's the observer of things. And maybe that is his training as a doctor, that's what they do right - observe and then put the pieces together in a diagnosis. I also feel like doctors are generally okay in these societies where there is upheaval. There are always sick and hurt people and doctors treat them no matter what, so there is always a place for them in a society. I'm reading A Constellation of Vital Phenomena right now as well, and one of the main characters is a doctor, and she's not doing well in this collapsing society, but she has work and some respect.

I also agree that Tonya is super practical, and even during the packing of the Moscow home, she's setting aside things that the family will need for barter/trade. I feel like between the two of them they will make a fine pair, a family that will be okay.

I'm a bit behind - just finishing this section. Hoping to get all caught up over the upcoming long weekend.

Anyway.... totally agree about Gintz. He struck me as comical, or jester like. Not in a funny ha ha way but in a sad kind of pathetic, way. I felt sympathy for him but also chuckled about over his demise.

And I am loving the beautiful descriptions of the sky, nature, etc., in this book. I'm feeling a bit bogged down in all the war and dreariness which I imagine I should be, but the descriptions are lyrical and beautiful.

I, like a number of you it seems, find Lara fascinating. I'm sympathetic to her because of her past with Komarovsky, but am also frustrated with her relationship with Pasha. I understand, psychologically why she would act like this, but still.

My favorite characters in literature are the flawed ones, that seem so real, and for that I'm really enjoying Lara.

I am also starting to see a very complex and complicated Yuri emerge, and it certainly motivates me to keep reading.

Greg wrote: "And continuing on about religion, I was puzzled by Pasternak's lengthy discussion about Jews. "The national idea has forced them, century after century, to be a nation and nothing but a nation-and ..."

This struck me too. I had to read that passage a couple of times, and then still had a bit of trouble putting it in proper context.

Greg wrote: "Jen wrote: "I'm still struggling with the characters and the names - there are just a lot of characters (minor ones it seems) with a lot of names. I don't recall this being a huge problem for me wi..."

I had to do that too, but I'm trying to not use it like a crutch. I want to learn the names right? And it's getting easier, but I certainly have to use the list!

I'm still struggling with the characters and the names - there are just a lot of characters (minor ones it seems) with a lot of names. I don't recall this being a huge problem for me with other Russian literature (Anna Karenina for example) but I'm started to work through. The names that I see regularly I'm grabbing on to as important. The others I'm just trying to not get stuck on. I'd be curious if folks have a thought on why so many minor characters and so many nicknames. My edition makes the case in the preface that this was completely purposeful on Pasternak's part.

Candace wrote: "I agree Jen. I feel like we are getting 'shown' what Yura is like as a child. Along with intelligence, I feel like we are being shown how sensitive he is to everything around him: his mother, natur..."

Agreed! And in the very last scene of Chapter 2, there's a passage that indicates the Yury, from the shadows is seeing everything, which cemented for me that he's a super observant, and very intense young man. It's nice foreshadowing of what I suspect we will see from him as he grows to an adult. I'm trying really hard not to 'read ahead' too much here - I don't know that much about the details of this book, and I like to let it play out while I'm reading it.

Greg wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Five O'Clock Express - What a heart rending way to open the book! Our poor Yura is orphaned and has no memory of his father, and we subsequently learn in the next chapter that it is ..."

This passage stopped me as well. I know adults who don't know the word misogyny, and while it perfectly explains the situation, it felt a little grown up for me. Then again, I thought, well, maybe this is something that we're to know about this character - that he's very bright and ahead of the crowd.

I'm up for giving a try as well!

I'm game. I unfortunately missed the start up discussions on the two currently underway and I didn't think I could catch up, but heading into the fall and winter reading months I'm certainly game.

SusanK wrote: "Everyman, how about Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes? Vietnam."

Matterhorn was excellent - and definitely a chunkster! Also, I would think, a great corollary to the Iliad.

Looking forward to it! See you all on the 20th!

Hi All - Looks like The Luminaries is our next Contemporary Chunkster. I haven't seen anywhere yet where we've set a schedule and such. I'm wlling to put one together and take a stab at leading discussion unless someone else much more skilled than I am would like to take a whack at it. What does everyone think?

I'm also a bit mystified by the Sally / Phillip relationship at the end. I do think he'll be happy, and she will be too but it just harkens back to his sick devotion to Mildred and how he calls that love. Then again, I had many, many moments where I wanted to shake him in this book and yell - get it together man! So, just add this one to this list.

I also really liked the ending. For me, it wrapped up some of the big lose ends (Mildred, Rev. Carey, and Phillip's station as a doc for example) but also left enough things open (will he have a happy marriage with Sally) that I can still dwell on the characters. I don't personally like endings that tie everything up perfectly; likewise I don't like everything left undone.

I am left feeling maybe Phillip doesn't know what it is to be happy. By the descriptions of his interactions with the Athelny's and Sally I beleve that he's happy and content with them, in that familial situation. But then there is this business about him having to give up his dreams of travel to marry. And he does say that he doesn't love Sally - he says with words. But I believe she makes him happy - is that love? I guess I don't really know, but it certainly looks more like love than anything he ever had with Mildred. And would it be completely impossible for him to travel with Sally? Maybe he wouldn't be able to be the ship's doctor he planned, but could they not travel together? Sally seems like she would be game.

I am still struggling with the bondage question of the title. I suppose that at many times throughout the book Phillip was in bondage to many things - his anuth and uncle's expectations, his art, Mildred, his study, his work when he was broke. But then would it be fair to say he's out of it at the end of the book, or has it just changed. I'm really not sure.

Teanka wrote: I thought so too, but, on the other hand, if he decided straight away to study medicine and not to spend 2 years in Paris, he would have finished his studies before he ran into financial trouble."

Or if he hadn't stupidly played the stock market - or, lest we forget - supported Mildred all those years. I'm with you - I'm irritated at him for throwing away his future as well.

I didn't actually enjoy this section much. For me it was like one more major downturn in the life of Phillip Carey and I think I've just had enough of the drops on this roller coaster. I agree with the discussion thus far about the really poignant piece being Phillip's conclusion that there is no meaning to life and so to just quit fighting it. It seems to free him up in a way that the rest of the challenges he's faced and overcome have not, and that's very telling.

I was also a bit uncomfortable with the storyline of Phillip waiting for his uncle to die. Although, I suppose that's all that's left between the two of them. There's clearly no love or even warm feelings between the two of them, so all there really would be left would be for the relationship to come to the final ending.

One small sliver of light for me was to the end of the section where Phillip has begun to put his artist training to use and begins designing fashion. It feels like he's come full circle, and is once again finding some joy in art, but also it's helping him to stave off poverty, two themes for Phillip throughout the book.

Ahhh....I hadn't been thinking of it from Mildred's POV, but Cindy and Stephanice I think you're on to something. It's her lack of caring, not Phillip, or the narrator, etc.

And Teanka - I totally agree. I don't like at all the fact that this innocent little child is mixed up the Mildred - Phillip drama. It can't end well for her.

I think there might be something lurking there with the baby as well. Some return to Phillip's childhood - a baby with a mother or father - something like that. I haven't completely sussed out what that thread is, but I sense it's there.

And, one thing that's killing me - why doesn't the baby have a name? I know this is a literary device that authors use sometimes, but it's one that drives me crazy and I can't place it here. Everyone else in the story (including all of Athelny's kids) have names, so why not Mildred's daughter? Is it meant to keep us from getting too attached to the baby so when Mildred up and takes off with her we're not too devastated?