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Has M. John Harrison ever been discussed for a possible group read? I think he's fantastic and so does Mr. Miéville: "That Harrison is not a Nobel Laureate proves the bankruptcy of the literary establishment. Austere, unflinching and desperately moving, he is one of the very great writers alive today. And yes, we writes fantasy and SF, though of a form, scale, and brilliance that it shames not only the rest of the field, but most modern fiction."

—a²Ô»åâ€�

"Harrison proves...that science fiction can be literature, of the very greatest kind. Light puts most modern fiction to shame. It's a magnificent book."

In an interview, he also says: "[Harrison] deliberately messes with the reader’s expectations of world creation. He likes to torture us with that nerdy desire we have for a stable secondary world—and I speak as one who shares it. So, for example, the name of the city he’s created in Viriconium changes from story to story with no particular explanation. The map shifts. A character who is dead in one story comes back later on. This of course makes continuity freaks scream in physical pain. I really love this about him. It’s incredibly provocative, and while it’s not the paradigm I write within, I do try to take some of the lessons from that."

He goes on to say, "[T]here is a lovely formulation from when he was at his slightly more “world create-y� early on in his career. He has a lovely phrase in the opening of "Pastel City" where he says, “There were some seventeen notable empires in the later ages of man. None of them concern us here.� And I love that. It’s so cheeky to pitch this historical weight of world creation, but then say, “Well, I’m not going to go into that because it’s really not relevant.� That to me is sort of like the most elegant and funny moment of world creation in speculative fiction in the last thirty years. “None of them concern us here.� That could be the slogan of the epistemologically rigorous world creator."

Ah, Joseph, thanks for this!

Btw, that "Other authors that we enjoy" section is for you guys to add topics to as you please. So, if you like, you can go and create threads there for any author that you think would more or less fall under the scope of speculative, SFF or in any other way connected to Mièville.

(How to do it, is to go to the main folder either through 'discussions' or clicking on the section from the group home, and then you click on "new topic" and viola, add your author.)

Thanks for bringing this author to our attention! He does look very interesting.

I've now created a thread on him for you, where we can discuss Harrison's work, and if we do decide to read something by him, we can schedule that and create the necessary threads, etc.

Thanks again ! The link is here : /topic/show/...

Oops! I actually meant to do that but just started typing in the one I was reading—sorry 'bout that!!

It's fine, Joseph, no prob at all.

A good way of drawing attention to a new author you want to add, would be to post a notice here and then a link to a thread you'd made for them--so no harm done, at least we know about the guy now. Your post might have gone unnoticed otherwise, so it's all good. :)

I didn't meant to come across as OCD as my previous post might have sounded, sorry if it did. (People tell me I can sound like that.... :P) I didn't mean to imply that you can't post in this thread, of course you can. I just wasn't sure if people were aware that they can start their own threads in the 'other author' section, because nobody has been doing it lately.

Hi everyone! It seems as if I had overestimated the amount of time people, including myself, have available for book discussions over December!

Since we all have our plates laden rather full, it would appear, I hope the people who indicated interest in reading and discussing Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson won't mind if we move that discussion on to January 4, 3, 2014?

If at least one person wants it earlier, I will be willing to open the discussion earlier--I'm not going to be too busy between Christmas and New Year myself this year, so I'll keep you company. :)

I'm perfectly fine with this, personally. I'll need lots of time to get through everything on my plate!

I'd forgotten how time-consuming all these Christmas preparations can be!

Things should calm down a bit after Christmas though. We traditionally have the few days between Xmas and New Year off, but I know that not everyone is so lucky. :)

Sounds good! (I'm behind as usual!!)

Joseph wrote: "Sounds good! (I'm behind as usual!!)"

Ha! I know what happened! Joseph got distracted! So many shiny books... ;)

Good here. Was considering giving the Snow Crash discussion a miss since I've gotten rather busy. Won't have to now.

Ah, I'm relieved to see that we're all in agreement. After all, we don't have a train to catch, have we? (We've already done a lot of train travelling with CM as it is. :P)

That's good for me too as the library list online says Snow Crash is there and waiting, but when I went to pick it up, the librarian said it was at some university library in the south and would be back 'later'.

I'll next be in town on the 6th, so if it is there, I'll join you then.

Oh, and I'm up for American Gods. I read a number of years ago and have been thinking recently that it is about time for a reread.

Sure, Ruth, you know we tend to linger a bit with preparations at the beginning, and you're a fast reader, so hopefully we'll see you there. :)

I'm in no hurry :)

I have to read We by Yevgeny Zamyatin for a project soon, and was wondering if any of you are interested in reading it along with me.

Here are excerpts of some reviews of and articles on the book:

SF Site says: "WE is probably the oldest 'new' release that you are likely to pick up at your local SF haven this year. In the early 20s, Yevgeny Zamyatin foresaw some of the excesses the Russian Revolution was heading toward, and he explored them in a brilliant satire that has become a classic in the genre of Utopian literature. Recently re-released in English translation by Avon Eos, this precursor to (and influence on) both 1984 and Brave New World is a must for anyone who enjoys facing the complex questions of human society in a thoroughly enjoyable and readable story.

Wikipedia: "We is a dystopian novel by Yevgeny Zamyatin completed in 1921. It was written in response to the author's personal experiences during the Russian revolution of 1905, the Russian revolution of 1917, [...], and his work in the Tyne shipyards during the First World War. [...]
Along with Jack London's The Iron Heel, We is generally considered to be the grandfather of the satirical futuristic dystopia genre.

The Guardian asks: " 1984 thoughtcrime? Does it matter that George Orwell pinched the plot? , in reference to the fact that Orwell had read and reviewed "WE" three years before 1984 came out, and that it has a lot of similarities with the former.

If that peaks your interest, please consider joining me. :)


On the China Mièville front, I'm negotiating with Derek atmo to see if he would be prepared to lead a reading of King Rat...

I have been on the look out for dystopian literature. If I can find it, I would be happy to join you, Traveller.

Oh, goody, thanks, Ruth! I was thinking to aim for early to mid February, so as to leave enough scope for another Mièville reading not to far into the future; the Mièville perhaps somewhere in April - Derek has agreed to lead King Rat for us, though there might be members who will prefer to do Kraken first. I guess we'll have to put it to the poll...

Well, the Tsar of Cold, aka sub-zero temps for a week here, has created a world of work and delays so I'm skipping out on Snow Crash...

But King Rat is one I've not read, so that sounds exciting to me. And as I've said before, I enjoyed Kraken so I'm in on that too, and would be willing to help out on the discussion.

Think I'll settle in and finish some of my Gaiman list now. :)

I'm sorry to hear you won't be in on Snow Crash, Allen. And please don't hold back if you still wanted to post on any of the Deathless threads.

We're all still busy with other reads, so Snow Crash won't be going fast if you still wanted to consider. We're still on the first thread.

Re the other Mieville and other buddy reads like Gaiman etc. that we had talked about, I must get a poll out again...

PS. Good that you'll help with Kraken, because IIRC, Derek hated it. :P

It helps when you read it if you think of it as eye candy (brain candy?) ... but he develops some really good characters, including one well-drawn evil one.

Okay, so this is what transpired on the "other authors that we enjoy" threads:

We'll start with "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatinon Friday Feb. 28. (So it will in essence be a March read.)

Then we'll start King Rat by China Mièville on Wednesday April 16.

Next from that is Babel-17 or Babel-17/Empire Star, by Samuel R. Delany I'll leave it up to the members to decide if we should both of those or only one, for May, possibly May-June.

And finally, for our first half of 2014 round-up, will be Kraken, starting somewhere in July.

There might be a gap in June if someone wants to make any suggestions?

Looks good to me. I have already read the Mievilles, but that's okay.

Yay, great looking lineup! Now off to Amazon, or my favorite brick and mortar, to get ready.

Wonderful.
And now I have a confession to make. *cough*
I'm busy reading Neuromancer and I'm dying to discuss it!

What to do?
Anybody be up for it if I start a thread or two and we discuss in the next week or two? I apologize that I didn't arrange a proper read for it earlier, but I was a bit nervous of a repeat of the Snow Crash experience.

In any case, I posted a bit about it here /topic/show/... , and would be glad if we could perhaps do The Difference Engine sometime, perhaps in June/July just before Kraken, or otherwise perhaps after Kraken.

That's a lot of proposals to consider at once! I'm not familar with Babel-17, and I'm not sure it would be my kind of thing, but I'm always willing to try new things.

As for Neuromancer, that wouldn't be a new thing, since I have read it, but since it was a long time ago (about fifteen years, now!), it would be interesting to revisit.

Sounds like fun, in other worlds!

Yes, in true Mièvillian fashion, we aim to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no human has gone before, at the risk of sounding like a Trekkie. ;)

So, people, anyone up for a flash Neuromancer read? I'm DYING to discuss it! *pant! pant!*

I eerily see Foucault's Pendulum themes in everything I read these days, btw. Arrggh, it's everywhere! First it was the Sumerian conspiracy theory and esoteric sect thing in Snow Crash, and now its the unreliable world and the kind of sleight of hand reality in Neuromancer!

Traveller wrote: "Okay, so this is what transpired on the "other authors that we enjoy" threads:

We'll start with "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatinon Friday Feb. 28. (So it will in essence be a M..."

'We' and 'Babel-17'! I have no choice but to find time for the discussions.

Traveller wrote: "Yes, in true Mièvillian fashion, we aim to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no human has gone before, at the risk of sounding like a Tr..."

Damn, I think I have Neuromancer at home but not here. Shame as I am desperate for anything not found on the senior citizen free shelf (James Patterson, Kay Hooper, you get the picture).

Cool, I'm so glad to hear, Nataliya!

Ruth I've sent you a mail. Not sure if you received it?

Fortunately for the time-crunched folks, both WE and BABEL-17 are pretty short!

Also, for fans of 1984, I think you'll really be able to see the influence WE had on Orwell's book!!

Traveller: I didn't, but I have now :) Thanks!

I love how enthusiastically you cheerlead us on our schedules, Joseph. :D Glad that you approve of the choices.

Oh, good, Ruth, I was starting to wonder if it went through. :)

I'm just enthusiastic about books in general, and VERY enthusiastic about good books as a rule!!

Traveller wrote: "So, people, anyone up for a flash Neuromancer read? I'm DYING to discuss it! *pant! pant!*"

Sure. I'll get into it tonight. It'll be another excuse to avoid Pynchon�

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "Traveller wrote: "So, people, anyone up for a flash Neuromancer read? I'm DYING to discuss it! *pant! pant!*"

Sure. I'll get into it tonight. It'll be another excuse to avoid Pynchon�"

Yaye! I'll have some threads up by tomorrow, and you can jump in whenever ready. It'll be much smoother sailing than Pynchon, depending which Pynchon of course. For some of Pynchon I feel I need to have lived 50 or 60 years ago to catch most of his references. I haven't finished a single work by him yet, I have to admit, because I get so sidetracked looking up the references, much as it went with FP.

Joseph wrote: "Fortunately for the time-crunched folks, both WE and BABEL-17 are pretty short!

Also, for fans of 1984, I think you'll really be able to see the influence WE had on Orwell's book!!"

Having never read it, and judging solely by the Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ description, I'm wondering about its influence on the movie THX-1138 ...

Let's read it and find out! :) (Though I haven't watched the movie yet).

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "Traveller wrote: "So, people, anyone up for a flash Neuromancer read? I'm DYING to discuss it! *pant! pant!*"

Sure. I'll get into it tonight. It'll be another excuse to avoid Pynchon�"

Okay, so since at least one person is indulging me, I typed a whoooole lot to start the Neuromancer discussion off here: /topic/show/...

Is it my imagination or might we be up for American Gods sometime this year?

Ruth wrote: "Is it my imagination or might we be up for American Gods sometime this year?"

Hm, I wonder if the group will have enough staying power for such a big, thick book? How soon would you want it, Ruth? I admit I would like to read it sometime, but I am also afraid of it being so thick... :P

In any case, whatever else we do, we must try to fit Kraken in before the year ends.

No, no, I am not in a hurry. I just thought it had been scheduled and then I couldn't find when.

I think we may have mentioned it in the Neil Gaiman thread or some other thread. ...but I have become wary of getting too ambitious with a reading schedule. People seem to be busy elsewhere this time of year.

Shall we book it for August-September maybe? And then Kraken for November-ish?

Sounds good to me, but I think I have a more flexible schedule than others...so let's see what they say.

Okay, I'll send a message and/or prepare a poll soon....(unless a lot of people clock in here first) but we've been quiet lately.

I'm good with that. Not that I'll likely reread American Gods, but I just � against my own advice � bought the sequel Anansi Boys

Derek (Guilty of thoughtcrime) wrote: "I'm good with that. Not that I'll likely reread American Gods, but I just � against my own advice � bought the sequel Anansi Boys"

Let's hope you remember enough still to discuss, but I suppose you can always look things up when we get to them, eh?

That's kind of my plan. I just didn't think American Gods was original enough to want to read it again.

Sounds good to me too, but I'm taking a break with a little dip into some with either Babel-17 (I bought it when it was mentioned here earlier) or some Peter F. Hamilton I still have on my Kindle ... after King Rat, which admittedly I'm slogging through. I mean there's only so many times that something surprising/bad can happen to an anti-hero who must reluctantly try to save the day before it gets old. I'm just a little bored trying to get to the interesting plot twist CM surely has up his sleeve.

I'll be honest in that King Rat has been China's weakest work for me so far, but then to be fair, wasn't it his first one?