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Discussion thread for chapters covering 1920 thru 1929.

Did Smiley succeed in her attempts to tell opening parts of the story from the perspective of a child? Has anyone here read a book written with the narrator's voice being that of a child? If so, how does what Smiley has done compare? Do you think that is what she was attempting and, if so, why?

Just a few of my questions as I read those first pages. They didn't totally "work" for me. They felt to me as if Smiley was playing with or exploring a technique or approach that recently has been popular or that she had been teaching at Iowa Writers Workshop. ( Room , The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time, ) It did, however, focus the story immediately on a chief protagonist of the book: how would this character develop?

I thought she succeeded rather well with Frankie's first year, especially teething. It made sense to me that he would know the pain but not understand the source of his owns crying (or perhaps screaming). I agree with others who say that the Thanksgiving episode was beautifully written. I remember being dressed to go out in the cold when I was a child and I think Smiley captures it accurately. I must admit that Frankie was more tolerant of itchy than I was :). This may be Smiley telling readers that even at this early age, Frankie knows how to wait.

It has been awhile since I read the book and I will not be where it is located for another week, but I do remember not being enthralled by the those first pages. However, they did not cause me to stop and I soon became engaged with these characters. And I certainly thought she did a better job of it than was done in Room (a book I really, really, really did not like).

I wanted a little more back story on the lives of the grandparents before they left Europe. But I will say my experience suggests losing that knowledge was not atypical of Midwestern families.

It's not jus the Midwest. When my grandfather got his American citizenship, he banned all but English in the house. My parents could understand the Eastern European languages of their parents but were unable to pass it along. Sigh.

Portia wrote: "It's not jus the Midwest. When my grandfather got his American citizenship, he banned all but English in the house. My parents could understand the Eastern European languages of their parents but..."

Same in my family. My grandmother was French Canadian and she and her relatives spoke French but did not teach it to their children.

Amazon sent me the wrong book. I've got A Thousand Acres!

Violet wrote: "Amazon sent me the wrong book. I've got A Thousand Acres!"

From the first few posts in this discussion, you may have gotten the better book! But seriously, sorry to hear about the mixup.

I thought that first scene where Walter watches the owl snatch up the rabbit set a nice tone for the novel in terms of the harshness of nature and life on a farm being a struggle. I was a little worried much of the novel might be from the child's perspective, but I still thought it was well done. We're an East coast family (the paternal grandparents may have been fully fluent in Italian, but only spoke a smattering on occasion and did not teach it to their children).

My initial impressions from this chapter were that Walter is a natural worrier and Frank is the little prince of the family. Because the chapters are actual years, I kept trying to keep in mind what was going on in U.S. and world history regardless of whether it was actually brought up in the story. Kind of had the effect of giving more weight to the story because the time and place were real and fixed, but less specificity (I think Lily used the word "representative" in a different thread on this book to refer to the characters).

I was interested in Smiley's repetition of the phrase "under the bed" nine times on P. 39. More if you count the page before and after. I thought it was effective to emphasize the importance of this event but then she never used it again.

That repetition seemed to hammer home both how frequent an occurrence it was and how stubborn a child Frank was. I didn't even notice just how many times it was repeated (although I easily remembered it). Very reminiscent of how many times you have to tell a young child (or pet) something (with children, I think I've heard that you may have to repeat something up to 1,000 times before it will sink in and for some children, it never does).

From the first few posts in this discussion, you may have gotten the better book! "
Ha ha. Amazon now providing an aesthetic jury service.

I truly enjoyed the perspective of the child, especially on reflection (view spoiler)[ because she will use it again later in the novel and also because it shows how attitude changes and how characters are mostly viewed as adults (hide spoiler)]. I have read several works when authors used the same perspective, but I would say Jane Smiley's one was one of the most successful in recent books.

Zulfiya wrote: "I would say Jane Smiley's one was one of the most successful in recent books...."

I am intrigued, but not quite certain of what you are saying, Zulfiya. Would/could you expand a bit; perhaps a "spoiler" example? (I remember having perhaps some of the same feeling about reuse, but can't tie the threads together.)

It strikes me that Smiley has quite an ability to write from numerous characters' perspectives. I especially like her writing from a baby's perspective.

Jan wrote: "It strikes me that Smiley has quite an ability to write from numerous characters' perspectives. I especially like her writing from a baby's perspective."

Would you share "why," Jan? I stumbled -- was this authentic or was it a writer playing with technique -- and didn't come to a conclusion. What was written didn't seem wrong or inappropriate, but felt to me as if it cut no new ground nor offered any especial insight, other than being "cute" or "trendy." What did I miss that others of you saw or experienced?

Lily wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "I would say Jane Smiley's one was one of the most successful in recent books...."

I am intrigued, but not quite certain of what you are saying, Zulfiya. Would/could you expand a bi..."

Lily, correct me if I'm wrong, as I read the novel a couple of months ago, but I believe (view spoiler)[ she used the same POV later in the same novel either with one of the grandchildren or with Frank's younger siblings (hide spoiler)]

If you're in the process of reading, keep an eye out on the qualities Rosanna attributes to each of her children and whether they change as the children grow.

Lily wrote: "Jan wrote: "It strikes me that Smiley has quite an ability to write from numerous characters' perspectives. I especially like her writing from a baby's perspective."

Would you share "why," Jan? I..."

Well, I also read it a while ago, but just found myself intrigued. It didn't strike me as extraneous or "arty." She's writing about a pretty traditional family and babies are definitely a part of a family. I'd just never encountered it before and thought it added something new and charming to a story of this kind.

I'm loving A Thousand Acres!

Jan wrote: "She's writing about a pretty traditional family and babies are definitely a part of a family. I'd just never encountered it before and thought it added something new and charming to a story of this kind...."

Thanks, Jan. I can understand that perspective.

Zulfiya wrote: " I believe she used the same POV later in the same novel ..."

You may be right, Zulfiya. I am away and have not had a chance to check. I have a vague recollection Smiley does provide some sort of continuity re. the narrative technique.

Violet wrote: "I'm loving A Thousand Acres!"

I did too!

Me, three (for loving A Thousand Acres)!

Marc wrote: "Me, three (for loving A Thousand Acres)!"

So, what's to love about it so strongly? The cynic in me wants to ask, because it is such a negative representation of so called "Middle America".

For me, the characters in it have always seemed so unlike the people I knew growing up. (view spoiler)[The deliberate canning of poisonous food seemed so over the top, although I know humans do ridiculous things. But, then, that it sat in the cellar until retrieved by the perpetrator years later... I knew domineering German men, but they weren't drunks. I know ambitious young women who left the farm for urban lives (some returned, not all), but they weren't Carolines. (hide spoiler)]

I do think the paralleling with King Lear seems to have been quite brilliantly done, although I have never done a character-to-character comparison. But I am not sure that is necessarily even appropriate. The sweep and human sensibilities seem to be mirrored.

I started rereading a bit last night. I had forgotten Walter was only twenty-five when he had his own farm. That certainly places him as an ambitious, risk-taking (although not necessarily self aware), independent young man. I recall no specifics on his education? I would assume maybe high school?

I wonder what Smiley presumes her reader would "know" (surmise) about Walter from the information she does give us.

In re-reading, I was struck by Walter being presented as a young farm lad returning as a soldier from WWI who wooed and won the pretty Catholic girl in the community. The 1920's were still a time when I suspect a Protestant-Catholic match was fairly opposed by families, perhaps more so than being that unusual. (Those were days when Midwestern towns might have German, Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian Lutheran churches. Some still do. Walter is portrayed as Methodist.) He clearly had some attributes that made him attractive to this young woman and acceptable to her family at some level. Smiley does tell us some about Walter's desire for independence from his father. (I wanted to know a bit more about how Walter was both like and different from his father.)

"...Eloise could see that Frank was a little afraid of Walter, as who wouldn’t be, loud as Walter was." p. 22

Where does this fit into the picture of Walter? (From other parts, I think I had pictured Walter as quiet and taciturn.)

From what I recall, I just got pulled into the family life/drama of A Thousand Acres and found it an engaging read. But I wasn't comparing it to anything or anyone in the "real" world and I didn't know about the Lear connection at the time (and didn't pick up on it on my own). (Could be I went in with low expectations since I didn't know anything about it or Smiley, and couldn't even recall how we ended up owning a copy... might have been bought on sale when one of our local bookstores closed.) I later read a rather scathing perspective on it by Charles Baxter in his Burning Down the House: Essays on Fiction (something about it being a prime example of the "fiction of victimization" or something--I can track the passage down if anyone is genuinely interested).

What kind of education would have existed for Walter when he was growing up? Seems like there was barely organized schooling for Frankie in this book, so one would assume Walter's education was strictly through the family.

1921 -- This chapter actually could have applied much later in the Midwest. In the 1940's, women were still ironing with flat irons heated on corn-cob/coal burning cook stoves -- even in August (harvesters needed nourishing hot midday meals). (view spoiler)[ I remember my mother doing this. Smiley permits me to recall her spreading a sleeve on that ironing board and later using a gas powered iron possibly more heat-controllable. Or to see her iron Dad's overalls with those flat irons. Although she allowed the wind to straighten sheets and pillowcases, Mom took great pride in her ironing. Perhaps one of the reasons I avoid it so assiduously. (hide spoiler)] Smiley doesn't even forget to mention the starch that belonged to ironing in those days. ("They smelled starchy and fresh." p. 21)

That Eloise was allowed to live with her sister seemed surprising given that she would have been the only daughter left at home to help the mother with her chores. The sisters must have been particularly close? The importance given to education by this generation of immigrants and farmers is also implied. (Sometimes farm families did have hired girls to help the mother, especially where a farm was prosperous enough or a family was very large.)

Antique irons:

History of ironing:

The picture I am getting of Rosanna is that of a headstrong young woman. Pretty, raising chickens when she was a teenager, probably strong and healthy, close to her sister Eloise, proud mother, affectionate. ("When the door opened, Rosanna drew him in, and then slipped her arms inside his unbuttoned jacket." p. 6)

Smiley doesn't really tell the reader whether R&W expanded into ducks, geese or turkeys, more suggests the possibilities. ("Well, chickens. Then there could be ducks and turkeys." p.18 Is this the voice of Rosanna or perhaps Walter, thinking about expanding the farm possibilities?) Smiley mentions the messiness of chickens (her voice?), but gives nothing about the collecting and care of the eggs for selling them. Or how Rosanna and Walter chose to use the revenue. Or even a few details about brooding the chicks with Mrs. Frederick.

Lily wrote: "Those were days when Midwestern towns might have German, Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian Lutheran churches. Some still do. Walter is portrayed as Methodist...."

From p. 34: "There were three churches in Denby � St. Albans (where her family went), First Methodist (where Walter’s family went), and North Street Lutheran."

Note the "Third Great Awakening" here:


I am a little curious as to what led Smiley to choose Methodist as the denomination with which the Langdon family affiliated.

Lily wrote: "The picture I am getting of Rosanna is that of a headstrong young woman. Pretty, raising chickens when she was a teenager, probably strong and healthy,..."

She is ill, either before or after Joey is delivered: "[Eloise] pumped all the water and carried it in, and all winter she had kept the fires going because Rosanna was so sick." p.32

But, despite the difficulties, Rosanna did apparently deliver Frank with little help from her obstetrician: See pages 14-15.

Marc wrote: "I later read a rather scathing perspective on it by Charles Baxter in his Burning Down the House: Essays on Fiction (something about it being a prime example of the "fiction of victimization" or something--I can track the passage down if anyone is genuinely interested)...."

Have to run some errands, but this is fun enough and relevant enough to Some Luck that later I shall trace a few more links. This one generalizes about what a Midwesterner is and includes a quotation from Baxter:



(Marc -- My library system does not have a copy of the book you suggest, but the web may provide enough to satisfy me.)

I've just moved apartments so am extra far behind on my reading but have just finished this first section. So far I think the book is pleasant to read, almost soothing in a way, but it's not particularly exciting.

It took me a bit to accept what Smiley was trying to do by giving us Frankie's perspective, but then sort of liked it. It very much seemed like someone was consciously trying to think of things as a baby would, but I appreciated the observations Smiley chose to make. Not a thrilling start to the book, but a solid starting point for gradually building the portrait of this family.

Lily, I was also perplexed by Smiley describing Walter as being loud and intimidating, at least from Frankie's perspective. I had also pictured him being quiet, especially since he is a young father (well, maybe not for those days). Frankie later seems surprised to learn that his father is not as gruff as he'd imagined when he starts helping around the farm more at the end of the section.

I think Rosanna is the most interesting character so far, although I don't find her the most likeable. I'm curious to find out where her relationship with religion takes her next.

I suppose I'll have to wait until I've finished the book, but so far I'm not sure how the title "Some Luck" fits in. Obviously, they've had some bad luck, especially with their first daughter, but Smiley introduces the idea that such accidents are a natural part of farm life and are ultimately unavoidable. I don't have the same sense of dread I did when reading Kate Atkinson's Life After Life, but am looking out for something to big to happen.

Marc wrote: "What kind of education would have existed for Walter when he was growing up? Seems like there was barely organized schooling for Frankie in this book, so one would assume Walter's education was strictly through the family...."

If at all possible, schools did exist. Education tended to be highly valued. In my own family, Danish was spoken at home until the children had difficulties in school, then English was adopted. (My grandparents generation.) It surprised me years later to learn in some communities the immigrant language was preserved much, much longer (especially urban, but also rural). School teachers may well have been single women with maybe two years of training beyond high school by the thirties. Farm children, particularly boys, often had to drop out of school to attend farm requirements, particularly planting in the spring and harvesting in the fall. For Walter, guessing how far he got with formal education is hard for me, part of why I wanted more clues from Smiley.