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Ian wrote: "I wonder if they could turn kids into similes and metaphors as an alternative? "

Brilliant!

Cecily wrote: "Talking of religious faith and what might prevent belief, I came across this extraordinary article today (not that I agree with it, or am suggesting it's a common opinion):
..."

How incredibly offensive...
I wonder which specific belief they brainwash them into? There is, of course, lots to choose from.

Cecily quoted: 'The head of Adana’s Health and Education Associations for Autistic Children reportedly said autistic children were “atheists due to a lack of a section for faith in their brains.�'

I so love junk science. Even if we are to accept that statement as given - though I rather suspect that it was a hypothesis, rather than anything as rigorous as a theory - who's to say that 'lack of faith', rather than 'presence of faith', is the pathological condition?

Ian wrote: "I wonder if they could turn kids into similes and metaphors as an alternative?"

But... I don't want to be a simile; I want to be a metaphor!
---------------
Derek wrote: " who's to say that 'lack of faith', rather than 'presence of faith', is the pathological condition?"

I think belief in something is intrinsic to humans; where this guy goes wrong is the assumption that belief in god(s) specifically must therefore be the norm.

The term "autism " throws a very wide blanket, but mainly implies the lack of an ability to form close emotional relationships with other people. I know of many atheists who most definitely do not conform to those criteria.
The strict definition per Wikipedia: " Autism is a highly variable neurodevelopmental disorder[17] that first appears during infancy or childhood, and generally follows a steady course without remission.[18] Overt symptoms gradually begin after the age of six months, become established by age two or three years,[19] and tend to continue through adulthood, although often in more muted form.[20] It is distinguished not by a single symptom, but by a characteristic triad of symptoms: impairments in social interaction; impairments in communication; and restricted interests and repetitive behavior. Other aspects, such as atypical eating, are also common but are not essential for diagnosis.[21] Autism's individual symptoms occur in the general population and appear not to associate highly, without a sharp line separating pathologically severe from common traits."

Traveller wrote: "...I wonder which specific belief they brainwash them into? There is, of course, lots to choose from"

As it's in Turkey, I expect Islam is the most likely candidate, though I don't imagine it's a mainstream Islamic belief.

Derek wrote: "...who's to say that 'lack of faith', rather than 'presence of faith', is the pathological condition? "

Ha! Good point!


I think we may be in danger of taking one person's very warped views too seriously. I posted it because the timing of my seeing it tied in with this, and because I was so flabbergasted.

Nataliya wrote: "But... I don't want to be a simile; I want to be a metaphor!"

I don't want to be like a simile;
I want to be a human metaphor!
Though exaggeration and hyperbole
Are unacceptable to my editor
She thinks I'd make a great figure of speech
Perhaps a catchy idiom and/or
A nice example of synechdoche,
Innuendo or non sequitur.

Cecily wrote: "As it's in Turkey, I expect Islam is the most likely candidate, though I don't imagine it's a mainstream Islamic belief."

Probably more importantly, this was a statement from a civil servant in a country that is still, despite considerable pressure from islamists, determinedly politically secular. I suspect holding such opinions is at least career-limiting.

Ian wrote: "Nataliya wrote: "But... I don't want to be a simile; I want to be a metaphor!"

I don't want to be like a simile;
I want to be a human metaphor!
Though exaggeration and hyperbole
Are unacceptable ..."

Love it, Ian!

Thank you very much for this thread, it has helped me very much. I have finished the book and liked it a lot. Not just because of the linguistic plays or the realistic alien depiction, but mostly because it was a very entertaining book. I just wish Miéville could write a sequel and show us more about the immer...

I suspect he won't write a sequel, as such, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he writes something else set in that universe. Certainly, the immer was not developed nearly as far as it could be.

It was nice to have you comment on the discussion, Daniel, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

I'm glad you enjoyed the book. Yes, it will be interesting to see what Mieville cooks up for us in the future. I also hope he revisits this or one of his other fantasy universes like Bas-lag sometime. :)