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Hello Everyone,

For the week of October 14th ~ October 20th, we are reading Part Two - Octavian in the West - 40 BC to 39 BC - Sections 8 - 10 of the book Antony and Cleopatra.

The fourth week's reading assignment is:

Week 4 � October 14th ~ October 20th
Part Two - Octavian in the West - 40 BC to 39 BC - Sections 8 - 10 - (140-186)

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on September 23rd.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle. This weekly thread will be opened up on October 14th.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Vicki Cline will be moderating this discussion and the back-up will be Jill.

Welcome,

Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS, SELECT VIEW ALL

by Colleen McCullough

REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS - ON EACH WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREAD - WE ONLY DISCUSS THE PAGES ASSIGNED OR THE PAGES WHICH WERE COVERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS. IF YOU GO AHEAD OR WANT TO ENGAGE IN MORE EXPANSIVE DISCUSSION - POST THOSE COMMENTS IN ONE OF THE SPOILER THREADS. THESE CHAPTERS HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO WHEN IN DOUBT CHECK WITH THE CHAPTER OVERVIEW AND SUMMARY TO RECALL WHETHER YOUR COMMENTS ARE ASSIGNMENT SPECIFIC. EXAMPLES OF SPOILER THREADS ARE THE GLOSSARY, THE BIBLIOGRAPHY, THE INTRODUCTION AND THE BOOK AS A WHOLE THREADS.

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations:

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

Here is the link to the thread titled Mechanics of the Board which will help you with the citations and how to do them.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Introduction Thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Table of Contents and Syllabus

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

Here is the link:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author may have used in his research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc. with proper citations or other books either nonfiction or historical fiction that relate to the subject matter of the book itself. No self-promotion, please.

Here is the link:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Book as a Whole and Final Thoughts - SPOILER THREAD

by Colleen McCullough

Chapter Overview and Summaries

Part II

Octavian in the West - 40 BC to 39 BC

Section � 8

When Antony gets to Rome, he receives a letter from Cleopatra announcing that she has given birth to twins, a boy and a girl, and that the Nile has flooded as a result. Antony sends her congratulations.

During a meeting with Octavian, he reveals that Salvidienus, whom Octavian had sent to govern Gaul, had been making overtures to himself about changing sides. Salvidienus will have to be tried for treason as a result and Agrippa sent to Gaul.

Antony and Octavia are married and she confesses that she’s been in love with him for years, and he sees how good she is with all the children in her care, including some of his. They have a blissful wedding night, and Antony is as happy with her as she is with him. Octavian is glad to see their mutual affection, but he’s sure Antony will desert her sooner or later. That will put him in a bad light with the Roman public, who all love Octavia.

Section � 9

Sextus Pompey is raiding grain shipments again, and Pollio, who is currently consul, proposes a meeting with Sextus, Octavian and Antony in Puteoli, with Maecenas as the head negotiator. They all agree, although Octavian wants Sextus obliterated.

Section � 10

The pact of Puteoli grants Sextus governorship of Sardinia, Sicilia and Corsica in return for free passage of grain ships.

Octavian’s wife Scribonia gives birth to a girl, named Julia, and a month later Octavia has a girl, Antonia.

Tiberius Claudius Nero is allowed to return to Rome, having been an exile because of his siding with Caesar’s killers. His wife Livia announces to him that she’s pregnant. He’s not pleased, as another son will be a financial burden and he’s already in debt. She’s upset and takes a walk, where she happens across Octavian, also on a walk. They fall in love with each other almost immediately and he vows to marry her. It’s a tricky proposition, since both of them are already married, but Octavian finds a scholar who ferrets out a couple of lines in the Sibylline Book which make it seem as though their current marriages must be dissolved and that they must marry each other. They are married with great ceremony in an ancient ritual, called confarreatio. Her son Tiberius will stay with his father (she never liked him anyway) and when the baby she’s carrying is born, that one too will go to Nero.

I like the tricky lines from the Sibylline Book. I wonder if they are actually in the book as we know it today.

This section of the book has been fascinating. Finally, we see Octavian show some emotion and even struggle with it. A nice change.

It was very hard for me to be happy for Octavia, even though she got what she wanted. I can't believe he wouldn't see that marriage as anything other than Octavian's attempt to control him.

I would also be interested to know whether those passages appear in the Sybelline Book.

I agree about Octavian and emotion. So far he's only been that passionate about Rome. I do wonder how they really met. It must have been something like love at first sight, since she was so pregnant when they got married.

McCullough really goes out of her way to make Tiberius Nero a terrible person. Even as far back as the fifth book, Caesar, he was portrayed as worthless on the battlefield.

by Colleen McCullough

I expected Antony to be skipping out on Octavia before we'd see Octavian leave Scribonia. It seemed to me, earlier on, that he wanted to be sure to show Antony as being a deserter to Octavia and in a bad light to everyone, that it didn't occur to me that he really cared about being married himself. So his falling for Livia was a bit surprising to me.

So little talk of Cleopatra in this section. Anxious to hear more from her.

The movie Cleopatra with Taylor and Burton was on BBCA in my area the other night. Unfortunately, I only saw a few minutes, but they covered the drunken revels of Antony's visit to Alexandria. I immediately went to the book assuming an index, but of course there isn't one. But it does show how well researched it is. I just have to remember its fiction.

I was struck by Octavians thought of a standing army, but more so by Agrippa's engineering foresight. As Octavian said, not unlike Julius Caesar.

It was also interesting about Octavian thinking he has to remake the mos maiorum, as though you can rewrite how the ancestors believe you should behave. I wonder where she got that idea. I can't think of how it changed from Caesar to Augustus - hopefully she'll have some examples later.

I believe that the Sybelline Book plays a role in the earlier books in the series as both Marius and Sulla consult them. It is nice to have these touches of continuity; especially with Octavian's plans for a new Rome.