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This is the place to discuss the second section of the book.

The meaning behind the title is revealed in this section. What was your reaction to seeing it defined in such terms? Did it change the way you approached the novel at that point?

What a good question, Daniel. It did change my perspective, as I had been thinking of constellation as a group of stars, as opposed to the more general definition of an assemblage or group of related things. I also had not given enough thought to the meaning of "phenomena," so I looked it up and found this definition -- "something that can be observed and studied that typically is unusual or difficult to understand or explain fully." Having finished the book, the title/definition really has meaning because how the characters in this book lived is both unusual (at least to me) and difficult to explain.

"Only one entry supplied an adequate definition, and she circled it with red ink, and referred to it nightly. Life: a constellation of vital phenomena - organization, irritability, movement, growth, reproduction, adaptation."

I'm seeing the novel as a constellation of all of these characters' lives, especially Sonja and Akhmed. We're being oriented into their world, their irritabilities, in Day 3 their movements... and hopefully growth, reproduction and adaptation as the novel progresses.

If I am remembering correctly, it is in this section that we learn Ramzan's story. It really changed how I was characterizing him. What a tortured soul. To be so brave and then to be so weak.

Linda wrote: "If I am remembering correctly, it is in this section that we learn Ramzan's story. It really changed how I was characterizing him. What a tortured soul. To be so brave and then to be so weak."

I don't have my copy in front of me. That sounds about right, although I'm pretty sure the emotional exploration was more thoroughly teased out in the next section.

How did the revelation of his story change your opinion of him? Did it succeed in eliciting some form of sympathy or empathy in regard to his actions?

This section is definitely a lot darker than the previous one. The revelation behind the title was a surprise, I had also been looking for something more ethereal.

Ramzan's back story came as a surprise. I was ready to label him as one of the 'bad guys', but reading all that it's just too twisted. To what length do you go to save yourself, and your family?
I think it definitely changed my opinion of him - not all the way to sympathy, but he became another complicated sort of victim in this story. I'm hoping he won't tell on Havaa and Achmed though.

One more part to go, but this has been a very strong book so far. Apart from the barbie doll / hostage taker of the first section, this part had another very strong image that is burned into my brain right now: a few dozen upside down toilet bowls all over the village, covering the unexploded artillary shells. I thought that was such a strong image, very surrealistic too.

Ramzen is complicated. I doubt he ever expected then he would go as far as he did. By the time he gave up Dokka, I think he must have wished he had chosen otherwise, as the mental anguish must have been horrific as the physical pain he had hoped to avoid. I have often wondered how I would react to torture.

I was surprised by the way in which the book's title came to be revealed in the novel. I never imagined that it would be in the form of a definition for the word - life. (Especially from a book filled with "arcane and useless information".)

I must say I had a really difficult time reading the chapter that describes Ramzen's time at the Landfill and the torture he endured and witnessed there.

I am struck by the contrast with description of Natasha's enslavement in the sex trade. It is so much shorter and thankfully less descriptive. It makes me wonder if the Marra wanted to avoid going into details of this hellish part of the Natasha's life. Or did Marra want to convey the sense that Natasha had but a hazy recollection of the events as a result of all the heroin that was forced upon her.

I was surprised by "life" being the unspoken main title of the book, but it makes sense, since the book seems to be about surviving where you are and with what you are given.

Ramzan's story, phew. Why do you think he didn't tell his Dad the truth? Nobility? Keeping him safe? His dad knew about the castration. I feel like telling someone might have given him the strenghth not to give in later.

I also like the connection between Sonja and Akhmad, how he seems unbothered by the literal interrogation (I think he was more upset that the "big city" was worthless when he'd put it on a pedestal in his mind), and how they are starting to connect.

Some great comments above. With everyone in this cohort having finished the book by now, though, I'm going to try posting related discussion in the next thread (where spoilers are allowed).

Wow. I'm reading this now and this section is where reading on becomes unbearable and yet unstoppable. The comments above are excellent and I agree with many. I love that we are introduced to characters in the present where we judge them based on their behaviours or actions, and then are given glimpses into their pasts. I have taken several breaks while reading this as I've needed time to reflect...I've thought a lot about how we form judgements about people without a full context. Ramzen is not more likeable for his past, or forgivable, but it certainly provides an explanation.

The title could not be more perfect. It can be read in so many ways; the randomness and fragility of life that comes through in the definition is what struck me.

In this section we find that all the characters in this book will be human.
That's not so in every book, or even in every good book. It's interesting because we talk about forgiving Ramzen, but we, at least so far are not asked to forgive him. We're just asked to reflect on him and think about him as both total and parts.

Also, I wonder if anyone else missed the flashes of humor we saw in days 1 and 2. I found day three made me want to cry all too often.