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So, I'm reading John Waters' Role Models, and there's a chapter on books. Bliss!

Here's: JOHN WATERS'S FIVE BOOKS YOU SHOULD READ TO LIVE A HAPPY LIFE IF SOMETHING IS BASICALLY THE MATTER WITH YOU
1. In Youth is Pleasure
2. We Need to Talk About Kevin
3. The Man Who Loved Children
4. Two Serious Ladies
5. Darkness and Day

The descriptions he gives in his book are fantastic. I'm thinking I need to read all of these. I only have one of them on my shelf (unread) - We Need To Talk About Kevin. I still haven't gotten around to it, but I did see the film twice.

Anyone read any of these?

I've read Two Serious Ladies and In Youth is Pleasure. I feel quite certain that John's interest in William Burroughs is what led him to Denton Welch and Jane Bowles. They were two of Burroughs' favorite writers.
Although, I won't quibble about Waters' choice of In Youth is Pleasure--it is a fine book, a book that would be profoundly boring in the hands of lesser writer--I would like to say that I think Welch's unfinished last novel, A Voice Through a Cloud, is his masterpiece and most representative of his work. He, much like Jane Bowles in this regard actually, is a writer who imbues the everyday: inanimate objects, personal exchanges, etc. with a teeming, almost vertiginous, quality and power.

Axolotl wrote: "I've read Two Serious Ladies and In Youth is Pleasure. I feel quite certain that John's interest in William Burroughs is what led him to..."

Thanks, Axolotl. He does explain his interest in In Youth is Pleasure - because he so strongly identified with the child. It does sound like a perspective that's not well covered in literature - childhood sexuality (for want of a better short description). I love this quote from the book too: /quotes/3813...

The one I'm dying to read after Waters' book is The Man Who Loved Children. How could I not want to read it after this? /quotes/3813...

I like Waters quite a bit, especially since Baltimore is from where my family hails, so I'm definitely interested in this list. I've read and enjoyed We Need to Talk About Kevin and Two Serious Ladies (I searched for years for the Bowles novel never realizing it was part of her collected works in one volume that I passed by dozens of times along the way). Curious what drew him to the Bowles's novel--do you remember?

Hi Ruby,

It explains his interest in the book but not how he was put on to such a--until recently--relatively obscure British writer.

Hi Marc,

I'd say that the answer, as with Denton Welch, is probably also his interest in William Burroughs who is on record as saying that Jane (and her husband and Denton Welch often mentioned in the same sentence!) was one of his favorite authors. It's just a little coincidental--I think a lot of people were put on to these writers this way--it isn't embarrassing. I personally love lists and recommendations from writers/artists whom I admire or am obsessed with--a good way to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Axolotl wrote: "I personally love lists and recommendations from writers/artists whom I admire or am obsessed with--a good way to separate the wheat from the chaff ..."

Me, too, Axolotl! I end up reading a lot of authors based on who they influenced or which other writers admire them (Italo Calvino by way of Mark Amerika; Stendahl by way of Calvino; etc.). It's always interesting to read different writers within groups/movements--Oulipo, the Beats, etc. Burroughs was also an interest of the same professor who recommended Jane Bowles (as was Walter Abish, Kathy Acker, Robert Coover, Lynne Tillman--none of them necessarily in touch w/ one another but all sharing an experimental approach).

Are you a Waters fan?

I had not heard of it before, but find myself intrigued by Two Serious Ladies.

Marc wrote: "Curious what drew him to the Bowles's novel--do you remember?
..."

Yes - it was recommended to him by Elloyd Hanson, the owner of Provincetown bookstore on its re-release in 1966. He also notes it was Tennessee Williams' favourite book.

Axolotl - As far as I can see, there's no mention of Burroughs by Waters anywhere in the book (although someone with an e-version might be able to search more carefully). As for why In Youth Is Pleasure rather than Welch's other books, I really do think Waters identifies with the character above all - he writes quite passionately about this. If you read his descriptions of this book, it's all about the child's character, and admiration for Welch's insight, rather than the writing per se. Perhaps he does admire Burroughs, but it's not mentioned.

I'm wondering if we should start a folder for lists of recommended books by celebrities?

That is a lovely idea!

I could be wrong, but I didn't get this connection from nowhere. You see, I was speaking to a publisher/bookseller (I won't name names but if you want to play a guessing game: this specializes in the literary strange and spooky but occasionally forays into other areas (but very occasionally)), this is a publisher from whom Mr. Waters is known to buy books occasionally. This publisher has also happened to have published Denton Welch in the past, in a lavish hardbound limited edition. The publisher mentioned to me about Mr. Waters' patronage when I asked him something about the Welch volume myself. It seems that when Mr. Waters was ordering said book by Denton Welch from said publisher, Mr. Waters mentioned William Burroughs in connection with Denton Welch. The publisher, not particularly taken with the work of Mr. Burroughs was a bit lukewarm in response to this mention on the part of Mr. Waters. The End. So the connection at least is on fairly good authority.
But perhaps if Waters had been reading Welch as far back as 1966, his interest goes back to before WSB's own. I could be misremembering this but I seem to remember reading somewhere that Jack Kerouac and Ginzy tried to get WSB to read Denton Welch about 10 years prior to his first "giving Denton a chance". Once Burroughs had caught the bug he took every book by Welch he could get from the library of the school (Naropa?) where he was then teaching and plowed through it all in short time, I believe also that this was in the mid seventies. If it was than that trailblazing so and so Waters was certainly there with the Denton Welch lovin' firstest.
Not that any of that/this matters--I mean let's face it we spend a lot of time on the internet dreaming of books and occasionally reading them: this sort of "nerding out" is not really beyond us (or am I just trying to justify a massive "nerdout"). The connection is compelling because we have here 3 interesting gay artists who couldn't be less alike: Burroughs is a fascinating one of a kind writer--love him or hate him--there was no one like him; Waters is a unique director who took more risks than anyone (in his early work) but had a singular vision which he sticks to: "it's a wonderful fucked up world" and Denton Welch could take the most boring synopses on paper imaginable and breath seething, coalescing life into while making it seem an easy trick, when anyone who's ever written knows it is far from it--a writer's writer.

Ruby [Reviles Censorship] wrote: "I'm wondering if we should start a folder for lists of recommended books by celebrities?"

It would certainly be easy to fill. Somebody just passed along 40 book suggestions from David Bowie by way of Brainpickings blog. I think I first came across The Master and Margarita thanks to an interview with Bjork.

please link the Bowie list---NOW!

Sorry to sound so demanding--I'm excited to read his list

(though he is a classic, I prefer Bowie the actor to Bowie the pop-star)

Before anyone else can say it:
*exhausted sigh exhalation*
yes, it is the tight pants in Labyrinth
*exhausted sigh exhalation*

Was posted a few months ago here. Here. /topic/show/...

Axolotl wrote: "please link the Bowie list---NOW!"

Alas, I was wrong. It's 75 books and not 40!


"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave." - Jareth the Goblin King

Clearly we do need a separate folder. Then you'd have noticed the Bowie list is already up :)

.....and it's DONE.

I've included Man Booker Prize lists & other "Best Of"s in here too.

Ruby [Reviles Censorship] wrote: ".....and it's DONE.

I've included Man Booker Prize lists & other "Best Of"s in here too."

Keeeewl!

I remember loving We Need to Talk About Kevin and thinking it was the best character study I'd ever read, having read like 20 books and none of them necessarily being character studies ;) Then I recommended it to my sis and it broke her heart- although (and I now believe this should be a disclaimer on all books, given the folk we bookreaders are) NO HARM COMES TO ANY FICTIONAL CAT. (right? or am I misremembering?) I thought the film was a bit like a visual appendix to the novel rather than a decent re-telling of it.

Leo [Hydra Kids, Hydra Wife] X. wrote: "NO HARM COMES TO ANY FICTIONAL CAT. (right? or am I misremembering?) I thought the film was a bit like a visual appendix to the novel rather than a decent re-telling of it..."

I believe you are correct, no fictional cats were harmed in the writing of the book or screenplay. I saw the movie before reading the book, which I always try to do if I know there's a movie coming out. The movie did a great job of telling the story, everywhere I had filled in the blanks, they were almost exactly how things were fleshed out in the book. Very minor spoilers follow: I also thought the movie did a better job of (view spoiler)[ maintaining the believable ignorance of Kevin's father. In the book, he was just straight up in denial. (hide spoiler)]