A Game of Thrones
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A theory you may find interesting.
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Matthew wrote: "She just needs to leave Mereen, journey to The Wall, defeat the Others, and unite Westeros first. No problem, right? ;) "All in a day's work. ;)
Yup - Dany does seem to be set up as the obvious saviour of Westeros (whether or not she makes it to the last page of the series alive). But it's better to be suspicious of the obvious in ASoIaF. After all, Ned Stark was set up as the 'obvious' protagonist of the series in the first book, and it was 'obvious' in the second one that Robb would avenge his father's death and lead the North to victory.
I personally hope Dany doesn't get killed off, but it's entirely possible that she might come down with a severe case of back-stab-itis in the course of the next couple of books.
Matthew wrote: "I doubt that he would kill Dany considering all the effort he's put into making everything depend on her. Between the Ironmen, the Dornishmen, and Aemon Targaryen and the Citadel coming to the conclusion that she is Azor Ahai reborn and the only hope at stoppping the Others, I'd say she is the resolution.Of course, this doesn't mean she won't die in the end. She just needs to leave Mereen, journey to The Wall, defeat the Others, and unite Westeros first. No problem, right? ;) "
Oh, I have no doubt she will play a pivotal role in saving Westeros from the Others. I have lots of doubts she will survive it all.
Shane wrote: "S wrote: "I anticipate Martin killing off the most popular characters-Dany. Tyrion , Jon and Arya."Tyrion is safe. Martin is too fond of him. So is Jon. He is going to be on the throne at the end..."
It is amusing for someone who has read all books to see you people thinking some characters are safe...
No spoilers, but be sure that every single threat the characters face is real, and dangerous, and possibly mortal.
Even when you don't think they're in danger, they may be. And when you are certain that they're in a dangerous situation, oh boy, you'll know what it means to be afraid to turn the next page.
It sounds like someone is a drama queen. Most likely very young.Sorry Todd, you will soon learn the internet is a harsh mistress. Specially when you broach a subject many people are passionate about.
I won't rag on you for what you did. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with posting a potential theory no matter where you heard it. Whether or not you have data to back it up, you at least start the conversation for it right?
Where I think you erred was in how you handled the criticism.
Anyways, my thoughts on the theory are more about it being so obvious that I hope it's not true. Many people have speculated it and the evidence is quite large. It seems the most obvious "twist" GRRM can pull off. Unfortunately 99% of the book readers know this is likely how it will end. So my hope is that WE ARE WRONG, and GRRM will surprise everyone. This is both a pro and con for such a popular series. People will spends hours...days...dissecting each piece of information in any book to try and find these easter eggs. Sometimes it ruins the surprise.
Let me also add though that it seems the more noble and honorable a person is, the more likely it is that they will die. Martin likes "grey" characters. Means to me any of the remaining stark boys could go, Dany could go, Tyrion is probably safe. Arya is probably safe.
Isaac wrote: "It is amusing for someone who has read all books to see you people thinking some characters are safe...No spoilers, but be sure that every single threat the characters face is real, and dangerous, and possibly mortal.
Even when you don't think they're in danger, they may be. And when you are certain that they're in a dangerous situation, oh boy, you'll know what it means to be afraid to turn the next page. "
I have read all of the books. Several times. My thoughts are just my thoughts based on what I've read, interviews with Martin, and discussions with other fans. I'm under no delusion about the world these characters inhabit and I fully expect more twists and turns and surprises on the way. I would also wager money that Tyrion and Jon will be alive at the end. All bets are off for all other characters.
Shane wrote: "Isaac wrote: "It is amusing for someone who has read all books to see you people thinking some characters are safe...No spoilers, but be sure that every single threat the characters face is real,..."
Agreed!
Shane wrote: "Isaac wrote: "It is amusing for someone who has read all books to see you people thinking some characters are safe...No spoilers, but be sure that every single threat the characters face is real,..."
Ah, I get it then.
5th book spoiler:
(view spoiler)
On related thoughts, I'd like so much to see Arya and Jon back together fighting side by side, with Arya obtaining revenge, and Jon being badass and ending up ruling Westeros. I'd be awesome.
Isaac wrote: "5th book spoiler:(view spoiler)"
Tyrion may be alive, but I think he will have a bittersweet end. As much as I love Arya, the darker her story gets, the more convinced I am she won't live. Also the line about her body being found in the spring with a needle frozen in her fingers. If Jaime doesn't sacrifice himself to save the king (Jon), I will eat crow.
Matthew wrote: "Actually, this theory is being argued by a lot of people. In fact, no offense intended, it's pretty much common knowledge at this point in the series. It's been hinted at multiple times throughout ..."Matthew speaks the truth. This is common knowledge and widely accepted. A more interesting theory is did Jon Snow survive the attack at the end of book 5 by warging into a Giant(the giant was present when he was attacked and was also under attack)
Shane wrote: "S wrote: "I anticipate Martin killing off the most popular characters-Dany. Tyrion , Jon and Arya."Tyrion is safe. Martin is too fond of him. So is Jon. He is going to be on the throne at the end..."
I hope Tyrion is safe, but didn't Jon appear to die at the end of DWD? I suppose the key word is "appear", and yes, the rise of Jon from "bastard" to king, would seem to be a crowd-pleasing way to end it all, but Martin doesn't seem too interested in pleasing the crowd. And what is the Monomyth?
S wrote: "I hope Tyrion is safe, but didn't Jon appear to die at the end of DWD? I suppose the key word is "appear", and yes, the rise of Jon from "bastard" to king, would seem to be a crowd-pleasing way to end it all, but Martin doesn't seem too interested in pleasing the crowd. And what is the Monomyth? "Oh, Martin is very much interested in pleasing the crowd. He just likes doing it in an unexpected fashion.
Wikipedia has a good article on the .
S wrote: "Shane wrote: "S wrote: "I anticipate Martin killing off the most popular characters-Dany. Tyrion , Jon and Arya."Tyrion is safe. Martin is too fond of him. So is Jon. He is going to be on the thr..."
Thelonious and S, we are commenting in a Game of Thrones book discussion. That's why I hid the DWD spoilers. Some people are only now discovering this series. It'd suck for them to come here and see a spoiler from the end of the 5th book! You could hide the spoilers in your comments by adding < spoiler > at the beginning and spoiler > at the end of the spoiler parts (only without spacing out the symbol and the word).
According to "Entertainment Weekly," Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons have a lot of "tangentials" that are unlikely to make it to the HBO Game of Thrones. I assume this means that the Mar tells and the Greyjoys (except Theon and Asha) are being dumped.
S wrote: "I assume this means that the Mar tells and the Greyjoys (except Theon and Asha) are being dumped."It's unlikely to be that extreme. Some of the Martells and Victarion Greyjoy are clearly going to be more important to the story in the upcoming books, and the producers of the show know this (they even know the end). It's more likely that certain scenes or minor plotlines involving them will be cut, and some of the characters will be combined into one. For instance, there don't need to be so many Sand Snakes on the show - just one or two would suffice. Arianne Martell's failed coup may be cut out or reduced considerably, since it's such a damp squib. Ditto for Quentyn Martell's failed dragon-taming stunt. The Greyjoy brothers may get cut down to just one or two - Aeron (Damphair) is unimportant to the plot so far, and even Euron can be cut out with minimum changes. Victarion is the only one important to the larger plotline, since his story is on course to intersect with Dany's and Tyrion's story in Meereen.
S wrote: "According to "Entertainment Weekly," Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons have a lot of "tangentials" that are unlikely to make it to the HBO Game of Thrones. I assume this means that the Mar te..."You can't dump the Martells and Greyjoys without sacrificing a major part of the storyline, nor without them revealing for the first time Daenerys Stormborn is being sought out by multiple factions in Westeros, not just Samwell and Aemon Targaryen. Perhaps they could drop Victarion and how he was trying to get Daenerys for the Ironborn, but not the Martells, surely.
If I were a betting man, I would be willing to say that they are going to cut out Jon Connington and Aegon Targaryen from the story and streamline things so that Daenerys is the only surviving Targaryen. But of course, that would require some serious script surgery as well. Could be done, I'm just glad I'm not the one responsible for doing it!
But it is clear in the books (if not in the series) that Ned Stark knew Lady stark for a few days before he went off into a battle where he got some other woman preganant. He wasn't caring and devoted then, he just didn't know her all that well and vice versa. So it is very plausile that he would go and find another woman during his absence.
Stella wrote: "But it is clear in the books (if not in the series) that Ned Stark knew Lady stark for a few days before he went off into a battle where he got some other woman preganant. He wasn't caring and devo..."Maybe you've been reading a different version of the books, but that is absolutely not in the character of Ned Stark.
@Shane - Isn't that what being a reader is all about - we all read the same thing and interpret in our own ways, according to our own worldview, etc.?
Stella wrote: "But it is clear in the books (if not in the series) that Ned Stark knew Lady stark for a few days before he went off into a battle where he got some other woman preganant. He wasn't caring and devo..."That version is highly accepted in Westeros, but just because it'd be a big flaw in the personality of a otherwise untainted person. It's like gossip. He's always been known as an honored person, as all Starks are. I don't think that's "very plausible".
If Ned did cheat on his wife I hope there was an indisputable reason for doing so. One I can't think of right now. Maybe if is was the most honorable decision to make, or he was out of his mind. But I doubt it. I don't think loneliness would overcome his honor.
The more I think about the theoy discused here, and about how generally accepted and obvious it is now, the more I doubt it will be revealed as the correct one in the end. There's probably another explanation, and maybe some pieces os information we haven't had access to yet.
Howland Reed has to know something!
Stella wrote: "But it is clear in the books (if not in the series) that Ned Stark knew Lady stark for a few days before he went off into a battle where he got some other woman preganant. He wasn't caring and devo..."So you think that Ned Stark did stray... then you believe that Jon Snow is Ned's bastard. It could be that. But I think we're going to find out that he's not. There are too many little hints that he's not. Like the way that Ned refers to Jon (not as his son but as his blood). And his conversations about him with Catelyn are decidedly short. Could it be that he just doesn't want to talk about his transgression anymore with her? Yes. But I just don't buy it. And not just because Ned's everyone's golden boy. He had flaws, he just didn't have as many obvious ones.
I'm still relatively new to the series so forgive me if I don't know more than I do... Having said that, I have read the first book and am in the middle of the second. I have seen only the first season of the show. I have heard the theory that Jon isn't Ned's son but nephew before.
What I wonder is this - Ned didn't talk about the "girl" he always thought of (reference the conversation he had with Robert on the way back from Ned's home when he was made Hand) and could it be that Jon IS Ned's son but his mother was of some import that could change everything should it come out? And Ned kept the son secret given who his mother really was and it comes out in the end?
This is also why I think Catelyn hates Jon more than most think she should (or at least more than I think she should) because she knows he's no mere "bastard" and resents him more than he deserves (or maybe as much as he deserves??)
I know that seems far fetched, and many of you know way more about the series than I do, but it was a thought I had since the end of Book 1.
I'm not faulting you there... I've read the whole series and I still get lost on some of these points. :) It's been too long since I read them. Hard to keep up sometimes. As for your theory, it could be absolutely true. I just don't happen to think it is, is all. I think you may change your mind after reading more. I'd be interested to see if it does once you've read on.
Lynn wrote: "I'm still relatively new to the series so forgive me if I don't know more than I do... Having said that, I have read the first book and am in the middle of the second. I have seen only the first ..."
You have an Interesting theory there about why Kat hates Jon.
Isaac wrote: "S wrote: "Shane wrote: "S wrote: "I anticipate Martin killing off the most popular characters-Dany. Tyrion , Jon and Arya."Tyrion is safe. Martin is too fond of him. So is Jon. He is going to be ..."
Sorry. I think I should write SPOILERS in front of everything I post these days.
Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "According to "Entertainment Weekly," Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons have a lot of "tangentials" that are unlikely to make it to the HBO Game of Thrones. I assume this means that ..."Well, Oberyn is definitely gonna be on the show.
Stella wrote: "But it is clear in the books (if not in the series) that Ned Stark knew Lady stark for a few days before he went off into a battle where he got some other woman preganant. He wasn't caring and devo..."It's actually not plausible, Stella. Ned Starks entire character is based on him being an honorable man and one that keeps his words. Whether he had been married for a few days or a few years at this point, his fathering a bastard child would have been seen as a terrible shame to him. And it was something all the houses judged him for, claiming it was totally inconsistent with his general reputation.
Differences of opinion aside, I am afraid to say that Shane is right. Thinking Ned Stark wouldn't have been caring or devoted to Catelyn simply because he didn't know her that long IS completely inconsistent with the man's character.
@Matthew - that's true if Ned Stark and other characters were living in our world. In their world, a lot of things are allowed, such as marriage of thirteen year olds, incest marriages, slaves, taking kids as hostages, flaying, etc. So maybe the values in the fantasy world are not the same as ours.
Stella wrote: "@Matthew - that's true if Ned Stark and other characters were living in our world. In their world, a lot of things are allowed, such as marriage of thirteen year olds, incest marriages, slaves, tak..."No, it's using the values that are attributed in the book. In their world, a betrothal means you're married and you must honour and love them even if you've never met them. And bastard children, though common, are considered a mark of shame that are supposed to be buried and forgotten. And Ned is considered a man of honour who does not break his word. So if and when he took a lover and impregnated her, it would be seen as a betrayal of that.
Are you sure it's not you who's applying our values onto this? You said that Ned straying at this point would be understandable since he didn't know Catelyn well. That would certainly make sense to people living in today's world, but to a man like Ned, it would have seemed like a flimsy pretext.
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Tyrion is safe. Martin is too fond of him. So is Jon. He is going to be on the throne at the end..."
I doubt that he would kill Dany considering all the effort he's put into making everything depend on her. Between the Ironmen, the Dornishmen, and Aemon Targaryen and the Citadel coming to the conclusion that she is Azor Ahai reborn and the only hope at stoppping the Others, I'd say she is the resolution.
Of course, this doesn't mean she won't die in the end. She just needs to leave Mereen, journey to The Wall, defeat the Others, and unite Westeros first. No problem, right? ;)