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John Dashwood and his wife are at their most despicable here.

Chapter 2: His wife: "Their housekeeping will be nothing at all. They will have no carriage, no horses, and hardly any servants; they will keep no company, and can have no expenses of any kind! Only conceive how comfortable they will be!"

Tadiana � Night Owl� wrote: "John Dashwood and his wife are at their most despicable here.

Chapter 2: His wife: "Their housekeeping will be nothing at all. They will have no carriage, no horses, and hardly any servants; they ..."

Pigs!

Despicable!

I think that Mrs John Dashwood honestly believes that that she is being fair. It's a case of someone who believes her own lies. And we all know that John Dashwood is completely spineless.

John Dashwood and his wife infuriate me every single time I read this book. Even knowing what they do in advance, I still react on an emotional level.

The John Dashwoods are just that kind of people that have a certain goal (not necesarily good) and convince themselves that their actions (that lead to the goal) are justified. :(

Melissa wrote: "John Dashwood and his wife infuriate me every single time I read this book. Even knowing what they do in advance, I still react on an emotional level."

Me, too, Melissa. And I always feel that John is more to blame. He knew what his father wanted, but he "let" her talk him out of doing what was right. Worse than spineless!

John is overpowered by Fanny. When you learn about her mother, this comes as no surprise. John is weak and spineless. It is his money so he does have a right to do what he pleases but if left up to him, he'd certainly support his sisters. I read somewhere once about how much money the Dashwood sisters get in modern U.S. dollars and it's well below the poverty line! That makes it even more awful.

It's particularly maddening how they both justify their actions, so they can feel good about what they're (not) doing.

I wonder, though, just how much John would have supported his sisters without anyone else's input. I think he would have talked himself into much, much less than his father intended, simply because his concern for his own interests would easily blind him to their needs. It was easy for Fanny to talk him round, because he immediately saw the advantage to himself. She did indeed make it easy for him, but he had the power to be a good man - and he didn't use it.

I won't say any more about John and Fanny.

I can't help but wonder if it was wise for the late Mr Dashwood to remarry and start a second family if he couldn't be certain that he could provide for them.

I'm not a parent, but for good or bad, don't parents *know* their children? Couldn't Mr Dashwood already know that his daughter-law-controls John and be aware of her dreadful character and that his son is a weakling and can't be trusted to keep his word?

With regard to Marianne, I keep having to remind myself of her youth every time she says something stupid. She has a lot of strong opinions and very little sense.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I won't say any more about John and Fanny.

I can't help but wonder if it was wise for the late Mr Dashwood to remarry and start a second family if he couldn't be certain that he could provide for ..."

It would be great if parents did indeed know their children, but I'm afraid that it's a rare quality. And I'm guessing that Mr. Dashwood was the kind of man who , simply because he loved his wife and daughters, assumed that everyone else, including his son, would, too. I'm sure that he thought John was a decent man, simply because he was his son.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I won't say any more about John and Fanny.

I can't help but wonder if it was wise for the late Mr Dashwood to remarry and start a second family if he couldn't be certain that he could provide for ..."

I completely agree with you re: Old Mr. Dashwood. He should have seen that his son was spineless.

Chapter 6: the Dashwoods moved from Sussex to Devonshire. I looked at a map of England and both are on the south coast of England. Sussex is south of London, and Exeter (in Devonshire) is about 200 miles to the west. A very long distance in those days!

Chapter 7: Austen draws very interesting portraits of Sir John and Lady Middleton.

Carmen wrote: "Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I won't say any more about John and Fanny.

I can't help but wonder if it was wise for the late Mr Dashwood to remarry and start a seco..."

Oh, he definitely should have seen that John was spineless, but it's rare for people to see those they love objectively. And, of course, although it's prudent to provide for those we leave behind, how many of us actually do? So, although I agree with the "should have", I'm still pretty much in sympathy with Mr. Dashwood.

You make good points, Karlyne!

Chapter II: "Indeed, to say the truth, I am convinced within myself that your father had no idea of your giving them any money at all."

Argh! What a horrible person that Mrs. John Dashwood is. >.<

I'm loving how very funny Austen is, and I was especially struck this morning by Marianne's sensible reflections that Colonel Brandon, "as a man of five and thirty might well have outlived all acuteness of feeling and every exquisite power of enjoyment. She was perfectly disposed to make every allowance for the colonel's advanced state of life which humanity required." Since S&S was published in 1811, and I seem to remember that Austen was born in 1775, she, too, would have been struck with all the horrors of old age that five and thirty could bring. She had such a wit!

Marianne is cracking me up this time around. She takes everything, including herself, so seriously. And she's so dramatic, and so certain she's right about everything, in the nicest possible way.

Tadiana � Night Owl� wrote: "Marianne is cracking me up this time around. She takes everything, including herself, so seriously. And she's so dramatic, and so certain she's right about everything, in the nicest possible way."

It's wonderful how she manages to still be a sympathetic character,even with all of her ridiculous certainty about life at the ripe old age of seventeenish!

Karlyne wrote: "I wonder, though, just how much John would have supported his sisters without anyone else's input. I think he would have talked himself into much, much less than his father intended, simply because..."

I felt that his initial impulse was a generous one, but his wife brings our the worst in him.

He doesn't have the backbone to follow through and do what is right since his wife dominates him.

Tadiana � Night Owl� wrote: "Chapter 7: Austen draws very interesting portraits of Sir John and Lady Middleton.
"

Sir John and his lady are such opposites and it would seem that they would not get along, but they seem to.

Though Lady Middleton is a bit of a cold fish, she doesn't seem to try to curb Sir John's natural exhuberance for company. She seems to accept him as he is.

Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "I won't say any more about John and Fanny.

I can't help but wonder if it was wise for the late Mr Dashwood to remarry and start a second family if he couldn't be certain that he could provide for ..."

Mr Dashwood was unexpectedly limited by the provisions in his uncle's will. The entailment of estates to ensure that it passes down the patrimonial line often caused great inconvenience to female members of families. Very often the mother's estate would be kept aside for the daughters of the house to provide for them, but Mrs Dashwood's limited income constrained them.

Similar situations still occur in African traditional communities where customary law limits women's inheritance rights severely.

I'm currently in the middle of a family melodrama which closely resembles the first few chapters of the book. In fact, the fleeing to the other side of the country is occurring at the end of the month.

Karlyne wrote: "And, of course, although it's prudent to provide for those we leave behind, how many of us actually do? So, although I agree with the "should have", I'm still pretty much in sympathy with Mr. Dashwood. ..."

I'm having a little trouble with sympathizing with Mr. Dashwood's carelessness in leaving his family in such dire straights when he could not support them.

Tadiana � Night Owl� wrote: "Marianne is cracking me up this time around. She takes everything, including herself, so seriously. And she's so dramatic, and so certain she's right about everything, in the nicest possible way."

I'm having trouble taking Marianne seriously.

If she were older, she would be quite the simpleton!

Yeah, Colonel Brandon seems to be a sharp guy. Why is he so interested in a melodramatic teenage girl almost 20 years his junior?

"His abilities in every respect improve upon acquaintance as his manners and person. At first sight, his address is certainly not striking; and his person can hardly be called handsome, till the expression of his eyes, which are uncommonly good, and the general sweetness of his countenance, is perceived. At present, I know him so well, that I think him really handsome; or, at least, almost so."

Elinor, Chapter IV.

This is exactly how I feel about men, EXACTLY. :)

Carmen wrote: ""His abilities in every respect improve upon acquaintance as his manners and person. At first sight, his address is certainly not striking; and his person can hardly be called handsome, till the ex..."

Sometimes it works the opposite way, too. There are some guys that I thought were very attractive when I first met them, but when I got to know them better, they became much less physically appealing.

YES. So much yes. Hot men aren't hot anymore when you discover they are jerks. o.O

Which Marianne is soon going to learn, methinks.

How can a mature man who seems smart, seriously consider Marianne over Elinor?

What bad taste.

But Marianne is young, vivacious, beautiful, full of life, enthusiastic and sensual. I can see exactly why Brandon would want her.

Well why would Brandon think HIS character/personality would appeal to someone like Marianne?

Well. I know Marianne didn't agree with me, but I always found Brandon to be very attractive. Then again, the things that appeal to me don't seem to appeal to young Marianne! I think you raise a good point, Andrea! LOL He's hopeful. Hopeful and in love again. What's he going to do? He should go for it!

Some of Brandon's attractiveness is diminished for me because of his state beguilement with a ninny like Marianne rather than with Elinor.

I mean really! What does Brandon think that he could say by way of conversation that would attract Marianne? He isn't very realistic. Beneath his calm sensible exterior, he's as fanciful as she is!

Some men go for the stupid ones...

Andrea - LOL :)

Brandon has his reasons for loving Marianne. If you've never read the book before, keep reading. If you have, then you know the answer but I always found that creepy. I refuse to think of Col. Brandon has 35. He's supposed to be old LOL! I think Alan Rickman was so wonderful in the film that he makes me automatically think of Brandon as an older man. I love the quip about his flannel waistcoat. The horrors!

Is it okay for me to invite a friend to this group? I got an e-mail today from her saying that she wants to join. Can anyone join?

Sounds great, Carmen! The more the merrier.

Okay, cool, thanks, Tadiana!

Branden isn't alone in being a clever man falling for a (blond) and dumb. Think of Mr Bennet, Knightly (who is much smarter than Emma & not to compare with Bennents of course )Sir Thomas, Capt Wentworth who almost married Lousa Capt Bentwick who did marry Lousa. Robert Dashwood, Palmer, Robert Martin ,Does this hint to us the reason for JA not married? Her opinion of men()

I'll be starting this in a few days, so I'll join in with my thoughts then. Hope that's okay. Are you reading this to a particular schedule, or is everyone reading in their own time?

There's no set schedule, Pink, so feel free to start and read at your own speed and add comments whenever. I think everyone's moving at a different pace.

Tadiana � Night Owl� wrote: "There's no set schedule, Pink, so feel free to start and read at your own speed and add comments whenever. I think everyone's moving at a different pace."

Okay, thanks :)

Chapter VII - He was a blessing to all the juvenile part of the neighborhood, for in summer he was forever forming parties to eat cold ham and chicken out of doors, and in winter his private balls were numerous enough for any young lady who was not suffering under the insatiable appetite of fifteen.

LOL :)

Brandon is sounding so attractive in this chapter. <3

Brandon is a good man. He has his reasons for loving Marianne that go beyond looks. (view spoiler)[She reminds him of his lost love Eliza. (hide spoiler)] I wouldn't say she was a "dumb blond" stereotype though. She's just a silly teenager. I related to her a lot when I first read the book and was around her age.

I agree, just a romantic teenager full of romantic ideas.

I have a question about chapters. I just started listening on Audiobook, planning for 10 chapters at a time, so I can comment here, but there are only 11 chapters in total. Do all written editions have 50 chapters?

I have a written version, and it's 50 chapters.