Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

This is a spoiler free thread for our September 15-November 14 group read
The Gospel of Loki by Joanne M. Harris

Ha! It's like 6-7 bucks on Amazon! Just got it. Totally looking forward to reading it with you guys :)

I'll be reading this one first, and I'll start once I finish the current book I'm reading on the Kindle, as my library has ebook versions.

I'm not too familiar with Norse mythology. I did find Myths of the Norsemen: From the Eddas and Sagas free on Amazon for the Kindle, and downloaded it in case I need it for reference. Here's the link for that, in case anyone is interested:

I've been wanting to read this since I first heard about it, but recently I read Jigs & Reels: Stories and only felt iffy about it. However, I loved Chocolat, so I'm hoping I have a similar experience with The Gospel of Loki!

Margaret wrote: "I'll be reading this one first, and I'll start once I finish the current book I'm reading on the Kindle, as my library has ebook versions.

I'm not too familiar with Norse mythology. I did find [bo..."

I came upon Chris's review today /review/show... and realized I don't know much at all about Norse Mythology. The book Chris suggested is also Myths of the Norsemen: From the Eddas and Sagas, I guess I'd better order it!

Jalilah wrote: "I came upon Chris's review today /review/show... and reading it, I realised I don't much at all about Norse Mythology. The book Chris suggested is also Myths of the Norsemen: From the Eddas and Sagas! I guess I'd better order it! "

I'm glad it's supposed to be good!

I know a tiny bit from internet research; I tutored a preteen earlier this year who wanted to write a post-apocalypse Ragnarok novel, so we did some research for that, but it was really minimal research done mostly on wikipedia and similar sites, so I know some basics, but that's it. I'll probably read Loki first and, if I feel like I need to, read Myths of the Norsemen. Or maybe I'll read both!

I read Joanne Harris' book Runemarks which is a YA Norse mythology novel. It's also the first in a series. I loved Runemarks, but the description of the second book doesn't appeal to me. I'm also hesitant about this one. I'm kind of picky about Norse mythology books. Sometimes a retelling will hit me on my sweet spot, but most of the time I have problems with them. I think it's because I've studied the Norse pantheons and the runes. Authors often violate my idea of a particular Norse deity or my concept of their relationships with the other members of the pantheons.

Margaret wrote: "I've been wanting to read this since I first heard about it, but recently I read Jigs & Reels: Stories and only felt iffy about it. However, I loved Chocolat, so I'm hoping I have a similar experience with The Gospel of Loki! ..."

Jigs & Reels: Stories was hit or miss for me but I liked both Chocolat and Blackberry Wine.

The Gospel of Loki did get nominated for the Mythopoeic Award so I have high hopes.

I started reading it yesterday, it feels like it's going to be a really light and quick read. Reads very easily and smoothly. This is the first book of Harris that I'm reading in English (read most of the others translated to my language). Really smooth writing. It's something I'd give to a teen to read too, they wouldn't be too bored I don't think.

I am really going to need to read some kind of Norse Mythology 101 before reading this!
I know Oden is the main God, kind of like Zeus in Greek mythology. Thor is the Thunder God, Freya his wife is the goddess of love and beauty...that's it!
I've never heard of Ragnarok or Loki!

The characters are explained in the beginning, so maybe you won't have to :) the story is retold anyway. I decided to go with a fresh mind (if you don't count details from Stargate, haha xD)

I admit, most of the norse mythology I know, I picked up from other retellings or books that referenced it in some way. And from the Avengers movies, of course.

I really ought to read some of the source material one of these years.

Jalilah wrote: "I am really going to need to read some kind of Norse Mythology 101 before reading this!
I know Oden is the main God, kind of like Zeus in Greek mythology. Thor is the Thunder God, Freya his wife ..."

Freya is not Odin's wife. Frigga is Odin's wife. Freya is from a different pantheon. There are two pantheons--the Aesir and the Vanir. Odin is the head of the Aesir. He has many aspects and is much more complex than Zeus. The Aesir are more recent deities. They are all about humans and what they have brought to the world. Odin is the All Father. He created humans. Yet he is also many other things. The Vanir are more ancient and are nature deities. The head of the Vanir pantheon is Njord, the God of the Sea. Freya is Njord's daughter. She is unmarried and takes many lovers.

There are also beings who are part of neither pantheon. They are called the Jotun which is usually translated as giants. They are primordial and even more ancient than the Vanir. Loki is one of them.

Evelina wrote: "The characters are explained in the beginning, so maybe you won't have to :) the story is retold anyway. I decided to go with a fresh mind (if you don't count details from Stargate, haha xD)"

Good! I'm probably going to jump in and not research first.

Shomeret wrote: "Freya is not Odin's wife. Frigga is Odin's wife. Freya is from a different pantheon. There are two pantheons--the Aesir and the Vanir. Odin is the head of the Aesir. He has many aspects and is much more complex than Zeus. The Aesir are more recent deities. They are all about humans and what they have brought to the world.."

Wow, I did not know any of that!

I have a copy of Myths of the Norsemen but it's already packed up - we're moving in a couple weeks. Hopefully I don't have to dig it out to "get" Gospel of Loki.

Shomeret wrote: "Freya is not Odin's wife. Frigga is Odin's wife..."

Super cool; thanks for clarifying the two pantheons.

I'm sorta familiar with Norse mythology but mostly from the films and TV I've watched, so I know there's much, much more to learn. However, I did quite enjoy the New Zealand show, , and it seemed to follow the myths fairly accurately based on Shomeret's info above, with some retelling. Although, I don't recall if the show mentioned the Aesir and the Vanir.

Evelina wrote: "The characters are explained in the beginning, so maybe you won't have to :) the story is retold anyway. I decided to go with a fresh mind (if you don't count details from Stargate, haha xD)"

Good to know!

Melanti wrote: "I admit, most of the norse mythology I know, I picked up from other retellings or books that referenced it in some way. And from the Avengers movies, of course.

I really ought to read some of the..."

What I know comes from the highly synopsized chapter in Mythology by Edith Hamilton, and tidbits from opera plots, which means I don't know much.

Evelina wrote: "The characters are explained in the beginning, so maybe you won't have to :) the story is retold anyway."

Yeah, but these explanations come from Loki's POV, and would probably be funnier/more meaningful if one knew what the traditional view is.

Susan wrote: "Yeah, but these explanations come from Loki's POV, and would probably be funnier/more meaningful if one knew what the traditional view is ..."

Ah, good point!

I'll join you all. I picked up this book when it first came out, but just haven't moved it to the top of the TBR stack. And I'll be picking up something to go along with it -- I too know little about the Norse Myths.

Susan wrote: "What I know comes from the highly synopsized chapter in Mythology by Edith Hamilton, and tidbits from opera plots, which means I don't know much. ..."

Oh! I do have a copy of that. It's sat unread on my shelves for years.

Hm. 30 pages for all of Norse Mythology? "Highly synopsized" sounds like an apt description.

The Gospel of Loki had a waiting list at the library, so until my turn comes up (I'm #2) I'm going to read Myths of the Norsemen: From the Eddas and Sagas. I was going to just jump in and start reading without much background, but I guess I'll do my research first!

Margaret wrote: "The Gospel of Loki had a waiting list at the library, so until my turn comes up (I'm #2) I'm going to read Myths of the Norsemen: From the Eddas and Sagas. I was going to just jump in ..."

I read the first couple of chapters and do think this book would be better appreciated with more background knowledge in the mythology. As Evelina mentioned, there is an explanation in the beginning of the book, however as Susan pointed out, it is from Loki's point of view. The story is easy to follow, but I somehow was not appreciating it.
This could either be because of my lack of knowledge in Norse mythology or the way it's written, trying to be funny with lots of modern expressions like "yours truly", "fan girl".

Sometimes I have difficulties starting a few book after I really loved the one that I just finished. That was The Hearing Trumpet. So I'm putting off reading this book for now and will read a few short stories from Don't Bet on the Prince: Contemporary Feminist Fairy Tales in North America and England and maybe something completely different first before trying again.

I did skim through the Norse chapter in Mythology that Susan mentioned and I already knew the majority of it, so I've apparently picked up quite a bit over the years.

I'm going to give it a shot without doing more reading on the original Norse myths - which would be hard to fit into my nearly non-existent reading time anyway!

So how are people going with this one? I admit I am curious because I read it some time ago and don't know anyone else who has read it. I was quietly unwhelemed myself....

I didn't like it at all. Too much like an HBO stand-up comic special with all the contemporary language & snarky comments. It did not feel like Harris's writing at all. Much preferred Runemarks for a taste of this mythology. I really had to push myself to slog through this one & despite it being short it seemed to take forever to finish. Loki was lacking.

I'm back in town and internet access. Looks like I will read The Hearing Trumpet first and save this one for last.

My copy arrived on Saturday, and I'm planning to start this after my current read, probably tomorrow

Kathy wrote: "I'm back in town and internet access. Looks like I will read The Hearing Trumpet first and save this one for last."

I sat down to read that yesterday, looked up at my half-fixed patio, and next thing I knew it was sunset... Didn't even open the book but my patio is finally finished!

It's due today and I can't renew, so I suppose I won't be able to participate in that thread.

Phair wrote: "I didn't like it at all. Too much like an HBO stand-up comic special with all the contemporary language & snarky comments. It did not feel like Harris's writing at all. Much preferred Runemarks fo..."

I've only been able to read a couple of pages but at first glance it does seem to be a little more cutesy than Harris's books tend to be...

Melanti wrote: "I sat down to read that yesterday, looked up at my half-fixed patio, and next thing I knew it was sunset... Didn't even open the book but my patio is finally finished!..."

Oh the weather is beautiful here -- so outside is where I want to be! I also have some riding to do as I've got a bike century in Nevada next month.

This book isn't really my thing. Looking at things from Loki's perspective (er can I say a Chaotic Neutral perspective?) doesn't make for any big changes, since Norse mythology has always come across as amoral to me. Rather than making space for ethical complexity, it simply gives everything a jokey tone. It's reasonably entertaining but I'm crying out for a feminist standpoint.

I'm contrasting with the Trickster stories inOld Indian Legends. Unlike Loki, the selfish trickster in these stories is a pathetic and ridiculous figure who never gets his way for long. I much prefer it that way...

Zanna wrote: "This book isn't really my thing. Looking at things from Loki's perspective (er can I say a Chaotic Neutral perspective?) doesn't make for any big changes, since Norse mythology has always come acro..."

Melanti wrote: "Phair wrote: "..I've only been able to read a couple of pages but at first glance it does seem to be a little more cutesy than Harris's books tend to be...
"

I've never read anything by Harris so I can't compare, but I definitely find the tone annoying. At first I thought it might be because I'd just read The Hearing Trumpet which was so wonderful. But then I had no difficulty what so ever getting into another completely different book, historical fiction about the war of independence in Bangladesh.
I've got The Gospel of Loki for another week so I will give it another try. I do like the idea of reading something based on Norse mythology!

I've modified my attitude a little. I imagine that Harris has decided to retell Norse mythology in a more lively engaging style than the sober, limpid narration of transcribed folklore (always a poor substitute, after all, for the teller entertaining listeners in person). In deciding what voice would best suit the dudebro atmosphere of the Norse myths she chose Loki and made him the ultimate dudebro.

I hate whiteness.

Well, to be fair, we ARE talking about Norse mythology, so I imagine they were pretty white. So a "white" treatment of the legends isn't totally out of line.

But yeah, I'm finding Loki's tone a bit annoying too. I keep marking names & events so I can read the "official" versions of the tale to contrast to Loki's versions. I'm only about a dozen pages in, though, so I haven't got to the main meat of the story yet, just the background info - and that's been more or less correct, though the tone is obviously different.

(and the fact that I'm only a dozen pages in and have already found a handful of people/events to look up and read about probably means there's some humor I'm not getting cause I obviously don't know the stories well.)

Melanti wrote: "Well, to be fair, we ARE talking about Norse mythology, so I imagine they were pretty white. So a "white" treatment of the legends isn't totally out of line.

But yeah, I'm finding Loki's tone a b..."

I'm at chapter 5 but still have the feeling that I'm missing something because I am unfamiliar with the original myths they are based on. I think it's time I looked them up.

Shomeret wrote: "I read Joanne Harris' book Runemarks which is a YA Norse mythology novel. It's also the first in a series. I loved Runemarks, but the description of the second book doesn't appeal t..."

For that reason I'd really be curious about your impressions on this book Shomeret!

In a Guardian review
its states " Readers who come to The Gospel of Loki expecting "an original fantasy novel" by Joanne Harris may well be disappointed. Pitched, openly and unashamedly, at the commercial end of the market, this book is more likely to delight those whose Loki is the one from the Marvel movies than to satisfy admirers of Harris's astringent, highly original and often subtly fantastic mainstream novels"

I'm still waiting for a copy at the library, but I am about halfway though Myths of the Norsemen. One of my favorites has Thor dressing up as Freya to retrieve his hammer from a giant (Loki had given the giant the hammer), and Loki dressing up as a handmaiden to help. The giant becomes suspicious when Thor-as-Freya starts eating everything in sight, and Loki has to convince him that 'Freya' is just hungry from the trip. Of course they're found out, but manage to get away with the hammer anyway.

You can read it here:

What I like about the Loki stories in the myths is that Loki isn't really evil. He's almost like that annoying younger sibling that keeps pestering everyone, and loves practical jokes. But when stuff goes really wrong he does try to help his siblings out.

I must admit, I didn't make it through the film Thor. But I did get the impression that Loki is much more of an arch-nemesis to Thor, whereas from reading I don't get the enemy vibe from their relationship at all.

It seems like no one is particularly enjoying The Gospel of Loki! I'm still going to read it when my turn comes up, but I have pretty low expectations at this point.

Melanti wrote: "Well, to be fair, we ARE talking about Norse mythology, so I imagine they were pretty white. So a "white" treatment of the legends isn't totally out of line.

I wasn't suggesting Harris was out of line - I mean, what I dislike about the mythology is whiteness:

Faithlessness is normative
Masculinity is defined by hostile, unemotional domination
Violence is glorified
There is a hostile sexual economy. Women are scorned for expressing love, and men are forbidden to express any emotion but anger. Sex is bartered by women for objects that soothe vanity. Marriage is seen as a 'ball and chain'. Only sex can be enjoyed and acknowledged, no other forms of communication.

But, to what extent does this atmosphere come from Harris' contemporary voice, her contemporary whiteness? I have to seek out other tellings to nuance my perspective on this!

Thanks for sharing Margaret, I think I should have a look = )

Margaret wrote: "One of my favorites has Thor dressing up as Freya to retrieve his hammer from a giant (Loki had given the giant the hammer), and Loki dressing up as a handmaiden to help. The giant becomes suspicious when Thor-as-Freya starts eating everything in sight, and Loki has to convince him that 'Freya' is just hungry from the trip. Of course they're found out, but manage to get away with the hammer anyway.

You can read it here: ...

What I like about the Loki stories in the myths is that Loki isn't really evil. He's almost like that annoying younger sibling that keeps pestering everyone, and loves practical jokes. But when stuff goes really wrong he does try to help his siblings out.

I must admit, I didn't make it through the film Thor. But I did get the impression that Loki is much more of an arch-nemesis to Thor, whereas from reading I don't get the enemy vibe from their relationship at all.

It seems like no one is particularly enjoying The Gospel of Loki! I'm still going to read it when my turn comes up, but I have pretty low expectations at this point. "

Looking at other readers reviews it's very mixed. Some people really liked it and others didn't. I think it really comes down to two things. You have to be somewhat familiar with Norse Mythology to better appreciate it. You have to like marvel comics or at least that style of writing; snarky trying to be funny.
That story you posted Margaret is hilarious! I wonder if it's in this book.

Zanna wrote: "But, to what extent does this atmosphere come from Harris' contemporary voice, her contemporary whiteness? I have to seek out other tellings to nuance my perspective on this! ..."

I haven't read the original source material but considering the nature of the mythos I imagine that at least your "violence is glorified" point is true to the myths.

Their afterlife is Valhalla, after all, which is full of warriors perpetually feasting and fighting.

Margaret wrote: "It seems like no one is particularly enjoying The Gospel of Loki! I'm still going to read it when my turn comes up, but I have pretty low expectations at this point. ..."

All my fault! I nominate the worst books some times. I swear it wasn't on purpose!

Actually, Chris gave it 4 stars, so it's not an entirely unloved book.

Well Melanti, I don't have any regrets about reading it ; )

Melanti wrote: "
All my fault! I nominate the worst books some times. I swear it wasn't on purpose! Actually, Chris gave it 4 stars, so it's not an entirely unloved book. I ..."

When nominating a book you're never read, there's always a risk that it will be a dud, but most of the time it's just a matter of taste. As you say, Chris liked it and if you look at the reviews, a ot of people did. No one should ever feel bad for nominating a book that others don't like.
It wasn't my cup of tea, more because of the comic book style writing, but I still interested in learning more about Norse myths.

Melanti wrote: "All my fault! I nominate the worst books some times. I swear it wasn't on purpose! "

It's been on my want to read shelf for a while, so I'm glad it was voted in!

For what it's worth, based on the group's discussion so far, I'll probably enjoy it and I'm still looking forward to reading it in next couple weeks.

My review, thanks all for the stimulation xxx
/review/show...

Leah wrote: "For what it's worth, based on the group's discussion so far, I'll probably enjoy it and I'm still looking forward to reading it in next couple weeks."

I'll be interested in reading your impressions Leah!

Margaret wrote: "t's been on my want to read shelf for a while, so I'm glad it was voted in!"

Me too, if anything to better aquaint myself with Norse mythology!

Zanna wrote: "My review, thanks all for the stimulation xxx
/review/show..."

That was a great and thought provocking review Zanna, leaving me with lots to ponder about!

Jalilah wrote: "Melanti wrote: "Well, to be fair, we ARE talking about Norse mythology, so I imagine they were pretty white. So a "white" treatment of the legends isn't totally out of line.

But yeah, I'm finding..."

I read a few pages and found it so irritating and inauthentic that I couldn't continue. How could the same writer who wrote Runemarksbe the author of this book?

Shomeret wrote: "I read a few pages and found it so irritating and inauthentic that I couldn't continue. How could the same writer who wrote Runemarks be the author of this book?
..."

I haven't read Runemarks, but I've thought the same about Chocolat and Blackberry wine. It's drastically different from either of those.

Thanks Jalilah = )

Leah wrote: "For what it's worth, based on the group's discussion so far, I'll probably enjoy it and I'm still looking forward to reading it in next couple weeks."

I can imagine a lot of people will like it Leah. I am just particular. There are certain kinds of books I just can't get into. Sometimes if one aspect of the writing bothers me, it will turn me off the entire novel and it becomes a chore to finish!

Shomeret wrote: "I read a few pages and found it so irritating and inauthentic that I couldn't continue. How could the same writer who wrote Runemarksbe the author of this book?
"

Because in the past I've often liked the books you recommended, I will definitely check out Runemarks.

As I mentioned earlier on I am interested in learning more about Norse Mythology. In fact I think it would be a great theme for a group read and I'll also suggest it for the 2016 Challenge.