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Well, I don't know about Nights at the Circus, but The Passion of New Eve was way more creepy than The Bloody Chamber. Fascinating, but the stuff of nightmares. Maybe you should just let her go, there are so many more authors out there. I love her, but can read her books only in a very Zen state of mind. Jeanette Winterson, on the other hand, I can always read. Sadly, none of her books is on the Endicott list even though "The Passion" is at least a little about Merpeople.

Jalilah wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Currently reading Nights at the Circus for #1. A crazy ride so far."

I've been curious about that book for sometime now. Unlike others in this group I was not as enamou..."

It is really different -- not creepy to me, but a crazy ride. More of a character sketch to me and I have no idea where we are going in the story. Not one that I can just skim -- it is taking me a bit of concentration to keep up with the story.

I am liking it -- but it is really different from something I would have chosen by myself without the challenge to help guide my choice.

Kathy wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Currently reading Nights at the Circus for #1. A crazy ride so far."

I've been curious about that book for sometime now. Unlike others in this group I w..."

Wolf wrote: "Well, I don't know about Nights at the Circus, but The Passion of New Eve was way more creepy than The Bloody Chamber. Fascinating, but the stuff of nightmares. Maybe you should just let her go, th..."

Hmm...Maybe Angela Carter really isn't my cup of tea! It's kind of embarrassing admitting that in a group that reads mythic fiction and fairy tale retellings, but I think it's true.

How strange! Jeanette Winterson's book Sexing the Cherry used to be on the Endicott mythic fiction list, but it's not anymore!

So it's a good thing that's one of hers I don't own yet, I might have been tempted to cheat there. :)

I don't think it's embarrassing. How boring life would be if we all read and liked the same books!

Jalilah wrote: "How strange! Jeanette Winterson's book Sexing the Cherry used to be on the Endicott mythic fiction list, but it's not anymore! "

Yep, I commented on this last year (see post here) because I had read Sexing the Cherry specifically because it was on Endicott's Mythic Fiction. At some point between June 2013 when you first posted the Mythic Fiction list in our group and February 2015 when I verified online, #90 Nancy Springer, The Blind God Is Watching and #98 Jeannette Winterson, Sexing the Cherry were removed/replaced with Helen Wecker, The Golem and the Jinni and Marly Youmans, Thaliad.

Now I check the list online annually just to double check I have the latest version.

I wonder why they replaced books rather than just adding a couple of books to the list?

Kathy wrote: "Finished today #6. East Asia: The Tale Of The Shining Princess by Sally Fisher

Quick read with beautiful illustrations."

I loved the artwork on that one too!

I think I've found something good for #7 Oceania,South and South East Asia:
The Palace of Illusions
"A reimagining of the world-famous Indian epic, the Mahabharat—told from the point of view of an amazing woman.

Relevant to today’s war-torn world, The Palace of Illusions takes us back to a time that is half history, half myth, and wholly magical. Narrated by Panchaali, the wife of the legendary Pandavas brothers in the Mahabharat, the novel gives us a new interpretation of this ancient tale.

The novel traces the princess Panchaali's life, beginning with her birth in fire and following her spirited balancing act as a woman with five husbands who have been cheated out of their father’s kingdom. Panchaali is swept into their quest to reclaim their birthright, remaining at their side through years of exile and a terrible civil war involving all the important kings of India. Meanwhile, we never lose sight of her strategic duels with her mother-in-law, her complicated friendship with the enigmatic Krishna, or her secret attraction to the mysterious man who is her husbands' most dangerous enemy. Panchaali is a fiery female redefining for us a world of warriors, gods, and the ever-manipulating hands of fate. (less)"

I've already read other books by Chitra Banerjee Divakaruniand really liked them.

Jalilah wrote: "I think I've found something good for #7 Oceania,South and South East Asia:
The Palace of Illusions
"A reimagining of the world-famous Indian epic, the Mahabharat—told from the poi..."

I've had that on my wishlist for a bit. It does look so good.

Jalilah wrote: "I think I've found something good for #7 Oceania,South and South East Asia:
The Palace of Illusions
"A reimagining of the world-famous Indian epic, the Mahabharat—told from the poi..."

I might read the same thing. It looks great.

How's everyone coming along?

For #2 , Endicott Adult Fairy Tale retelling, I can't decide between Briar Rose by Jane Yolen or Winter Rose by Patricia A. McKillip!

I am still not sure about #3, the YA retelling. The Snow Queen by Eileen Kernaghan looks very intriguing, but my library doesn't have it. I'd have to order it as an inter-library loan. There's also one on the list called The Night Dance : A Retelling of The Twelve Dancing Princesses that also looks like it might be good.

Jalilah wrote: "How's everyone coming along?

For #2 , Endicott Adult Fairy Tale retelling, I can't decide between Briar Rose by Jane Yolen or Winter Rose ..."

Hm. I liked both of those Endicott Adult pics, but Briar Rose has lingered in my head a lot more. If it helps you choose, Winter Rose is influenced by "Tam Lin" and Briar Rose deals with the holocaust (I happen to think that this topic is one of Yolen's strengths).

If you end up reading The Night Dance I'd definitely be interested in what you think! I read a few books in that series by a different author (Dokey) and thought they were too simplistic for my tastes. They felt like nothing but a set-up for the happily-ever-after ending. But I don't know if that's due to the series or the author.

Jalilah wrote: "How's everyone coming along?

For #2 , Endicott Adult Fairy Tale retelling, I can't decide between Briar Rose by Jane Yolen or Winter Rose by..."

Those are both wonderful books.

I'm a bit behind, I think. Just 3 books read, and one of them is European - which is pretty trivial to fill.

I think part of the problem is that I have been mostly listening to and reading whispersynced audio books for novels and I really don't have many of those left with a fairy tale/mythic influence.

I really need to go browse my library's audiobook selection and see if I can find something good.


I was considering Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ and East of Eden for the religious tale, but realistically I'm probably not going to have time to read either since they're both pretty long for how little time I've had lately.

I did find a copy of The Fire Gospel by Michel Faber, which I might read instead, since that's a lot shorter.

Jalilah wrote: "How's everyone coming along?

I've read my books for the first three challenges items, all from the Endicott list: Love in the Time of Cholera (didn't like it); Daughter of the Forest (loved it); and Straw Into Gold. I am currently reading A Wild Swan: And Other Tales for #4, although its queer themes are not as apparent as I expected them to be based on its reviews. But Jack of the Jack & the Beanstalk tale is bisexual, so I am counting it. :) Other than being less appropriate for the challenge than I expected, I'm enjoying it a lot.

I've also read both Briar Rose and Winter Rose, and I preferred Winter Rose. Based on books you've liked in the past, I think you'd like either one of them. Winter Rose is more traditional fantasy.

The Central/South American-influenced story is the one I'm having the most trouble with. Jalilah, would you consider Bless Me, Ultima to fit for this challenge item?

Kathy wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "How's everyone coming along?

For #2 , Endicott Adult Fairy Tale retelling, I can't decide between Briar Rose by Jane Yolen or Winter Rose b..."

I have lagged a bit, being on a streak of reading popular historicals (well, as popular as historicals ever get, if they're not specifically romances) set in the early reign of Louis XIV. This is by way of research into what English-speaking readers enjoy and "know" about the Paris of that time.

Emerging from that blitz, I have consulted my Challenge list and noticed that I hadn't chosen a book for spot #5, the major religion spot. I actually toyed with reading the new translation of Joseph and His Brothers, because I love Thomas Mann. But it's 1492 pages, so I think I will only dive into it if I suddenly get ahead of my challenges this year.

For now, I've marked the #5 place with The Red Tent.

Lacey wrote: "Jalilah wrote: ".The Central/South American-influenced story is the one I'm having the most trouble with. Jalilah, would you consider Bless Me, Ultima to fit for this challenge item"

Bless Me, Ultima is one of my favourite books in the Universe. It's definitelty mythic, but it takes place in the U.S. State of New Mexico. So were the challenge "Latin American" it would work , but not Central or South America.

Melanti wrote: m. I liked both of those Endicott Adult pics, but Briar Rose has lingered in my head a lot more. If it helps you choose, Winter Rose is influenced by "Tam Lin" and Briar Rose deals with the holocaust (I happen to think that this topic is one of Yolen's strengths).
If you end up reading The Night Dance I'd definitely be interested in what you think! I read a few books in that series by a different author (Dokey) and thought they were too simplistic for my tastes. They felt like nothing but a set-up for the happily-ever-after ending. But I don't know if that's due to the series or the author" ..."

Well...If it's anything like Pamela Dean's Tam Lin I'll like Winter Rose
For some reason I really want to like Jane Yolen, but all three books of hers I've read were kind of meh. Snow in Summer started off so promising but the ending was so abrupt and kind of ruined it. I couldn't get into the A Plague of Unicorns either. However Briar Rose just seems like it must be one of her stronger books.

I love 12 Dancing Princesses/ Worn Out Slippers, but The Night Dance : A Retelling of The Twelve Dancing Princesses seems like it might be too fluffy.

Jalilah wrote: "Melanti wrote: m. I liked both of those Endicott Adult pics, but Briar Rose has lingered in my head a lot more. If it helps you choose, Winter Rose is influenced by "Tam Lin" and Briar Rose deals w..."

I just started A Plague of Unicorns and while it's cute, there's not a ton of substance. Snow In Summer was a mistake, IMO. It should have stayed a short story and never been turned into a book... But those are middle grade/YA books, and her adult work is a lot more appealing. So, please don't rule out Briar Rose entirely - even if you do end up reading something else for this challenge!

But you can't go wrong with McKillip and The Winter Rose is a wonderful book too!



"Too fluffy" is a great way to describe the other books in the "Once Upon a Time" series. Again, the ones I read were by a different author, so it's possible the one you've mentioned might be better, but I'm leery at this point! I keep hoping someone will read one and tell me if the others are worth bothering to read.

I've only read 3 on the list so far. Nominating for the hugos has really eaten up my reading time. I'm going to try and spread it out more this year, but this is my 1st time nominating so I'm not very organized.

But nominations are due by Thursday, so I'll finally have a chance to catch up with this group. I know some of us mentioned doing a group read of The Shadowed Sun for the African read. When do we want to start that? April? Early or late? I also need to read 3 of the unicorn group reads, but I suspect those won't take very long.

Jalilah wrote: "Bless Me, Ultima is one of my favourite books in the Universe. It's definitelty mythic, but it takes place in the U.S. State of New Mexico. So we're the challenge "Latin American" it would work , but not Central or South America."

Darn! Back to the drawing board for that one, then. Oh well, I'm sure I'll find something by December. :)

Lacey wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "Bless Me, Ultima is one of my favourite books in the Universe. It's definitelty mythic, but it takes place in the U.S. State of New Mexico. So we're the challenge "Latin American" i..."

I forget, Lacey were you the one who didn't like The House of the Spirits? Normally I'd suggest that. It takes place in Chile. However many people prefer her Eva Luna which is set in Venezuela and also has a mythic/magic realism quality to it. Or The Stories of Eva Luna

I've read all her books, so for the challenge I have not found anything for Central - South America yet either. There are lots of Mexican books, but Mexico is still part of North America.

I've not had much luck finding Central and South American writers who would be considered Mythic, Magic Realism yes. We've had these discussions here before that they are not the same but the line between the two can be blurry and some books are both.

So, beyond Isabel Allende, and Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, another possibility for South/Central America might be might be Jorge Luis Borges. I think some of his stuff has a mythic connection - though I've never read him before.

Not sure who I'll end up reading. I have selections by all of the above on Mt. TBR.

Margaret wrote: "I know some of us mentioned doing a group read of The Shadowed Sun for the African read...."

We can't wait too long. By fall you'll frantically be trying to catch up on all the 2016 releases!

BUt seriously, any time. The classics group is reading The Idiot by Fyodor Dostoyevsky, next month, and I'm sure a break will be welcome at some point.

Melanti wrote: "We can't wait too long. By fall you'll frantically be trying to catch up on all the 20..."

Nooooo. :) I didn't sign up until late last year, so I think if I read 1 or 2 current year novels a month, I'll be fine. I need to stop thinking I have to fill out every single category.

How about we start April 15th? That will give me a chance to finish The Buried Giant and Unicorn Mountain.

Sounds good to me.

And very true. Especially in nominations. Now once it comes to voting, you have no excuse not to read everything that they give you a copy of.


BTW, not book related, but has there been another "Sad Puppies"/"Rabid Puppies" campaign, or did last years slew of "No awards" kill that strategy?

Melanti wrote: "BTW, not book related, but has there been another "Sad Puppies"/"Rabid Puppies" campaign, or did last years slew of "No awards" kill that strategy? ."

They did come up with another 'slate,' but it's a lot more diverse this year. They let everyone nominate in a forum, and then took the highest votes. Catherynne Valente even made it onto their slate (and she was quite upset about it!). It's not getting as much coverage either. I suspect it won't be a problem this year, but no one will know until the short list is announced. Here's their slate this year:

Margaret wrote: "I've only read 3 on the list so far. Nominating for the hugos has really eaten up my reading time. I'm going to try and spread it out more this year, but this is my 1st time nominating so I'm not v..."

What are the Hugos?

Hm. Yeah, a LOT more diverse, and quite a bit of it seems to be on there because it's great stuff and not just because of its political ideology.

Not sure how you'd even tell if the slate worked or not, to be honest, unless every selection matches up.

Jalilah wrote: "What are the Hugos?."

They're the biggest award for speculative fiction genres (mainly, sci-fi and fantasy). Anyone can buy a membership to vote and nominate (they're $50, but you receive ebooks of all the short listed fiction). I bought my first one last year after a group calling themselves sad/rabid puppies bought memberships, nominated a 'slate,' and then filled all the short list spots with their picks. They said 'social justice warriors' were taking over the ballot, and they wanted to fill it with fiction that was about a good story versus social concerns (I've already asked in the NRA thread whether this is even possible). I'm trying to be democratic about my description, but it's hard! I joined so I could nominate fiction I feel the puppies were discriminating against.

Here's a brief description of the awards, and you can see what's won in the past too:

Melanti wrote: "Not sure how you'd even tell if the slate worked or not, to be honest, unless every selection matches up.."

That's how they could tell with last year's hugos. And yes, I agree.

The Hugos stand out from the other genre awards by being voted on directly by the fans instead of a panel of judges deciding everything.

Last year's sad puppy slate included a lot of Tom Kratman's work... He's a real "gem" of an author that wrote Caliphate and A Desert Called Peace. That should give you an idea of what kinds of stuff filled the short list after their ballot stuffing. (Not saying Muslim extremism and Salafi jihadism aren't terrible horrible things, Or even any sort of strict theocracies but it's pretty vile to have your plot blatantly be your poor, oppressed Christian minority fighting against the evil Muslims.)

Margaret wrote: " They said 'social justice warriors' were taking over the ballot, and they wanted to fill it with fiction that was about a good story versus social concerns ..."

They also said that recent winners have been "too literary" so I find their inclusion of Valente on this year's slate to be particularly amusing.

Jalilah wrote: "I forget, Lacey were you the one who didn't like The House of the Spirits? Normally I'd suggest that. It takes place in Chile. However many people prefer her Eva Luna which is set in Venezuela and also has a mythic/magic realism quality to it. Or The Stories of Eva Luna"

Lacey, I'm reading Eva Luna for challenge #10.

However, I did like The House of the Spirits but mostly for how seamless the blend of magic with reality. I'm hoping Eva Luna will be just as good if not better.

P.S. I'm reading Eva Luna before any of Allende's others because Jalilah recommended it.

Melanti wrote: " Last year's sad puppy slate included a lot of Tom Kratman's work... He's a real "gem" of an author that wrote Caliphate and A Desert Called Peace. That should give you an idea of what kinds of stuff filled the short list after their ballot stuffing. (Not saying Muslim extremism and Salafi jihadism aren't terrible horrible things, Or even any sort of strict theocracies but it's pretty vile to have your plot blatantly be your poor, oppressed Christian minority fighting against the evil Muslims.)."

Wow! I just looked up Caliphate and I am just speechless! :(

Melanti wrote: "They also said that recent winners have been "too literary" so I find their inclusion of Valente on this year's slate to be particularly amusing.."

Yes!

I also found Ancillary Mercy an amusing one to include--last year they heavily criticized the series because the main AI character--Breq--can't differentiate between genders and calls everyone 'she'.

Jalilah wrote: "Wow! I just looked up Caliphate and I am just speechless! :( ..."

So was I when I first saw it!

Margaret wrote: "Melanti wrote: "They also said that recent winners have been "too literary" so I find their inclusion of Valente on this year's slate to be particularly amusing.."

Yes!

I also found Ancillary Me..."
Guess it just shows that the voting isn't as rigged and slanted as they say, if even their own readers/fans vote for the books they say the don't like.

Seriously, though, I think they have a point on categories like "long form editor". What average fan is going to know who edited the novels they read? Editors aren't generally credited openly.

But ballot stuffing just undermines the whole process.


Ah well.

This month's Endicott group read looks like it might work for the Oceana/South Asia category. Is anyone planning on reading it?

Melanti wrote: "...This month's Endicott group read looks like it might work for the Oceana/South Asia category. Is anyone planning on reading it? ..."

I have a copy of They Who Do Not Grieve and I am going to begin soon.

Melanti wrote: " .This month's Endicott group read looks like it might work for the Oceana/South Asia category. Is anyone planning on reading it? ."

I had the same thought! My library doesn't have it, so I've gone ahead and ordered it as an interlibrary loan. I was planning on reading The Palace of Illusions for that category, but I'd also like to read They Who Do Not Grieve.
I also ordered The Snow Queenfor my YA rather than the other one I was considering The Night Dance : A Retelling of The Twelve Dancing Princesses. Before it was determined which book would win for this months group read I went ahead and order them all, but the only one that's arrived is one that did not win, The Wandering Unicorn!

Yay! We will finally get to know if there ARE unicorns in there! :)

Jalilah wrote: "I was planning on reading The Palace of Illusions for that category, but I'd also like to read They Who Do Not Grieve. .."

I have The Bone People, which I think should fit, but I'm always on the hunt for new books... Neither of my libraries have They Who Do Not Grieve either. I'll wait for your guys' reviews to see whether I should try to get it via ILL or buy it.

Jalilah wrote: "I forget, Lacey were you the one who didn't like The House of the Spirits? Normally I'd suggest that. It takes place in Chile. However many people prefer her Eva Luna which is set in Venezuela and also has a mythic/magic realism quality to it. Or The Stories of Eva Luna

I've read all her books, so for the challenge I have not found anything for Central - South America yet either. There are lots of Mexican books, but Mexico is still part of North America."

Right, I did not really care for The House of the Spirits when I read it way back in 2002. Besides Eva Luna, do you know whether her other books set in South America have mythic dimensions? I'm asking because I'm looking at which ones my library has on CD, which is the easiest way for me to get to them -- they do not have Eva Luna but they have some others. Unfortunately, based on the short synopsis on the catalog alone it is not clear whether they delve into mythic territory or not.

Also, since the challenge item is to read something that draws on the mythology FROM Central and South America, wouldn't that mean it doesn't have to take place there? For example, a piece that uses a belief system from South American mythology but takes place in North America might technically still count.

I appreciate the suggestions from all -- I will let you know what I finally decide on. :)

Lacey wrote: "Also, since the challenge item is to read something that draws on the mythology FROM Central and South America, wouldn't that mean it doesn't have to take place there? For example, a piece that uses a belief system from South American mythology but takes place in North America might technically still count. "

The challenge description for #6-12 reads "A book or collection set in or using mythology/tales/folklore from..." So yes, you are correct. If the book's not set in that place then it can be set anywhere but using that place's myth/tales/folklore.

Lacey wrote: "Jalilah wrote: "I forget, Lacey were you the one who didn't like The House of the Spirits? Normally I'd suggest that. It takes place in Chile. However many people prefer her Eva Luna which is set i..."

A great novel from Brazil is Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands by Jorge Amado. It definitely could be described as mythic in addition to magical realist, as the autor uses a Afro-Brazilian folklore and rituals in the story. In particular Candomblé plays a role. I might reread it for this challenge as its been years since I read it.

I know I've already said this somewhere in this group. House of the Spirts is one of my favorite books, but I am not sure exactly why it's on the mythic fiction list as I don't find any recognizable myths in it. There might be, but none that I recognize. It's great literature, yes. Same can be said for Eva Luna.

Melanti wrote: "So, beyond Isabel Allende, and Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, another possibility for South/Central America might be might be Jorge Luis Borges. I think some of ..."

I read Labyrinths: Selected Stories and Other Writings by Jorge Luis Borges many years ago and I remember many of the stories could be describes as mythic. I can't remember much except I did not like all the stories.

The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts is on the Mythic fiction list. It takes place in a fictious country that resembles Columbia. I hated it though and only read about a third before giving up on it.

Jalilah wrote: "...A great novel from Brazil is Dona Flor and Her Two Husbands by Jorge Amado. It definitely could be described as mythic in addition to magical realist, as the autor uses a Afro-Brazilian folklore and rituals in the story. ..."

That has been on my list for a while. I had forgotten about it, I think I'll read it for the challenge.

If some if you are still looking for something to read for #8 the Middle East, I just finished The Architect's Apprentice by Elif Shafak and think it would qualify. Although it is historical fiction and not fantasy, it most definitely has mythic elements in it along with Turkish folklore.

I started a buddy read of The Shadowed Sun: /topic/show/...

I believe Kathy and Melanti were going to read it as well? Are you ready to read?

I finished a book last night, so I thought I would start The Shadowed Sun tonight.

Sounds like a plan..

I'm utterly failing at reading The Idiot so I switched to a different translation that doesn't have an audio version.

So, I was getting ready to start The Shadowed Sun early anyway!

Melanti wrote: "Sounds like a plan..

I'm utterly failing at reading The Idiot so I switched to a different translation that doesn't have an audio version.

So, I was getting ready to start [book:The..."

The Idiot was my first Dostoyevsky, and I enjoyed it, but you definitely have to be in a certain frame of mind to read him.

I tried to read Unicorn Mountain but couldn't get into it, which is why I'm also ready to read The Shadowed Sun!

Margaret wrote: "The Idiot was my first Dostoyevsky, and I enjoyed it, but you definitely have to be in a certain frame of mind to read him...."

I'm blaming a bad translation.

That's an easy get out of jail free card for classics.

I re-started it last night with a more modern translation, and I don't know if it's because I'm reading it for the second time or if it's the translation style, but I do like this version better.

Wolf wrote: "Yay! We will finally get to know if there ARE unicorns in there! :)"

Actually there is a scene in The Wandering Unicornwhere a Unicorn is being hunted. The Main character Melusine talks about unicorn lore for a couple of pages and mentions The Lore of the Unicorn by Odell Shepard. There is a unicorn horn that us sought after, but I wouldn't say it's a book about unicorns, it's about Melusine.