The World's Literature in Europe discussion
Festival of African Lit. 2016
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The Meursault Investigation by Kamel Daoud
The "Meurseault" in the title of this book is the stoic(?) anti-hero of Albert Camus's novel The Stranger. Because "The Stranger' is so important to this book, I'll be rereading it simultaneously and invite you to as well. I'll be posting daily using the reading guide at:
Camus is mentioned by name through The Meursualt Investigation, henceforth "TMI", so it might be useful to keep in mind some background on him.
Camus was a pied noir born on 7 November 1913 in Dréan (then known as Mondovi) in French Algeria. From Wikipedia we see that his mother was of Spanish descent and could only hear out of her left ear. His father, Lucien, a poor agricultural worker of Alsatian descent, was wounded in the Battle of the Marne in 1914 during World War I, while serving as a member of the Zouave infantry regiment. Lucien died in a makeshift army hospital from his wounds on October 11. Camus and his mother, an illiterate house cleaner, lived without a wealth of material possessions during his childhood in the Belcourt section of Algiers.
In 1923, Camus was accepted into the Lycée Bugeaud and eventually was admitted to the University of Algiers. After he contracted tuberculosis in 1930, he had to end his football activities; he had been a goalkeeper for a prominent Algerian university team. In addition, he was only able to study part-time. To earn money, he took odd jobs: as a private tutor, car parts clerk, and assistant at the Meteorological Institute. He completed his licence de philosophie (BA) in 1936; in May 1936, he successfully presented his thesis on Plotinus, Néo-Platonisme et Pensée Chrétienne (Neo-Platonism and Christian Thought), for his diplôme d'études supérieures (fr) (roughly equivalent to an MA thesis).
Camus joined the French Communist Party in the spring of 1935, seeing it as a way to "fight inequalities between Europeans and 'natives' in Algeria." He did not suggest he was a Marxist or that he had read Das Kapital, but did write, "We might see communism as a springboard and asceticism that prepares the ground for more spiritual activities." In 1936, the independence-minded Algerian Communist Party (PCA) was founded. Camus joined the activities of the Algerian People's Party (Le Parti du Peuple Algérien), which got him into trouble with his Communist party comrades, who in 1937 denounced him as a Trotskyite and expelled from the party. Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement.
Camus peacefully advocated on behalf of Algerian rights but did not fully endorse an independent Algeria due to fears of what would happen to the pied noirs. This part of his life is explored more fully here: I think it is important to keep this in mind while considering TMI's portrayal of Camus.
Camus is mentioned by name through The Meursualt Investigation, henceforth "TMI", so it might be useful to keep in mind some background on him.
Camus was a pied noir born on 7 November 1913 in Dréan (then known as Mondovi) in French Algeria. From Wikipedia we see that his mother was of Spanish descent and could only hear out of her left ear. His father, Lucien, a poor agricultural worker of Alsatian descent, was wounded in the Battle of the Marne in 1914 during World War I, while serving as a member of the Zouave infantry regiment. Lucien died in a makeshift army hospital from his wounds on October 11. Camus and his mother, an illiterate house cleaner, lived without a wealth of material possessions during his childhood in the Belcourt section of Algiers.
In 1923, Camus was accepted into the Lycée Bugeaud and eventually was admitted to the University of Algiers. After he contracted tuberculosis in 1930, he had to end his football activities; he had been a goalkeeper for a prominent Algerian university team. In addition, he was only able to study part-time. To earn money, he took odd jobs: as a private tutor, car parts clerk, and assistant at the Meteorological Institute. He completed his licence de philosophie (BA) in 1936; in May 1936, he successfully presented his thesis on Plotinus, Néo-Platonisme et Pensée Chrétienne (Neo-Platonism and Christian Thought), for his diplôme d'études supérieures (fr) (roughly equivalent to an MA thesis).
Camus joined the French Communist Party in the spring of 1935, seeing it as a way to "fight inequalities between Europeans and 'natives' in Algeria." He did not suggest he was a Marxist or that he had read Das Kapital, but did write, "We might see communism as a springboard and asceticism that prepares the ground for more spiritual activities." In 1936, the independence-minded Algerian Communist Party (PCA) was founded. Camus joined the activities of the Algerian People's Party (Le Parti du Peuple Algérien), which got him into trouble with his Communist party comrades, who in 1937 denounced him as a Trotskyite and expelled from the party. Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement.
Camus peacefully advocated on behalf of Algerian rights but did not fully endorse an independent Algeria due to fears of what would happen to the pied noirs. This part of his life is explored more fully here: I think it is important to keep this in mind while considering TMI's portrayal of Camus.
TMI takes place during the Algerian War. Some background on that from wikipedia:
The Algerian War, also known as the Algerian War of Independence or the Algerian Revolution (Berber: Tagrawla Tadzayrit; Arabic: الثورة الجزائرية� Al-thawra Al-Jazaa'iriyya; French: Guerre d'Algérie or Révolution algérienne) was a war between France and the Algerian independence movements from 1954 to 1962, which led to Algeria gaining its independence from France. An important decolonization war, it was a complex conflict characterized by guerrilla warfare, maquis fighting, terrorism, the use of torture by both sides, and counter-terrorism operations. The conflict was also a civil war between loyalist Algerians supporting a French Algeria and their insurrectionist Algerian nationalist counterparts... ...
Upon independence, in 1962, 900,000 European-Algerians (Pieds-noirs) fled to France, in fear of the FLN's revenge, within a few months. The government was totally unprepared for the vast number of refugees, causing turmoil in France. The majority of Algerian Muslims who had worked for the French, were disarmed and left behind as the treaty between French and Algerian authorities declared that no actions could be taken against them. However, the Harkis in particular, having served as auxiliaries with the French army, were regarded as traitors by the FLN and between 50,000 and 150,000 Harkis and family members were murdered by the FLN or lynch-mobs, often after being abducted and tortured. About 91,000 managed to flee to France, some with help from their French officers acting against orders, and today they and their descendants form a significant part of the Algerian-French population.
The Algerian War, also known as the Algerian War of Independence or the Algerian Revolution (Berber: Tagrawla Tadzayrit; Arabic: الثورة الجزائرية� Al-thawra Al-Jazaa'iriyya; French: Guerre d'Algérie or Révolution algérienne) was a war between France and the Algerian independence movements from 1954 to 1962, which led to Algeria gaining its independence from France. An important decolonization war, it was a complex conflict characterized by guerrilla warfare, maquis fighting, terrorism, the use of torture by both sides, and counter-terrorism operations. The conflict was also a civil war between loyalist Algerians supporting a French Algeria and their insurrectionist Algerian nationalist counterparts... ...
Upon independence, in 1962, 900,000 European-Algerians (Pieds-noirs) fled to France, in fear of the FLN's revenge, within a few months. The government was totally unprepared for the vast number of refugees, causing turmoil in France. The majority of Algerian Muslims who had worked for the French, were disarmed and left behind as the treaty between French and Algerian authorities declared that no actions could be taken against them. However, the Harkis in particular, having served as auxiliaries with the French army, were regarded as traitors by the FLN and between 50,000 and 150,000 Harkis and family members were murdered by the FLN or lynch-mobs, often after being abducted and tortured. About 91,000 managed to flee to France, some with help from their French officers acting against orders, and today they and their descendants form a significant part of the Algerian-French population.
About Algeria today. Daoud, imho, is writing as much about current affairs as he is the past in TMI. His views on today's Algeria have been described as those of a "disappointed lover." Algeria is the tenth-largest country in the world, and the largest in Africa and the Arab world. The Economist has a country survey at:
Politically, Algeria is an authoritarian regime, according to the Democracy Index 2014. The Freedom of the Press 2015 report gives it a rating of "Not Free".
Elected politicians are considered to have relatively little sway over Algeria. Instead, a group of unelected civilian and military "décideurs", known as "le pouvoir" ("the power"), actually rule the country, even deciding who should be president. The most powerful man may be Mohamed Mediène, head of the military intelligence. In recent years, many of these generals have died or retired. After the death of General Larbi Belkheir, Algerian President Bouteflika put loyalists in key posts, notably at Sonatrach, and secured constitutional amendments that make him re-electable indefinitely.
Politically, Algeria is an authoritarian regime, according to the Democracy Index 2014. The Freedom of the Press 2015 report gives it a rating of "Not Free".
Elected politicians are considered to have relatively little sway over Algeria. Instead, a group of unelected civilian and military "décideurs", known as "le pouvoir" ("the power"), actually rule the country, even deciding who should be president. The most powerful man may be Mohamed Mediène, head of the military intelligence. In recent years, many of these generals have died or retired. After the death of General Larbi Belkheir, Algerian President Bouteflika put loyalists in key posts, notably at Sonatrach, and secured constitutional amendments that make him re-electable indefinitely.
Thanks, Don, lots of great information here.
Maggie wrote: "Thanks, Don, lots of great information here."
You are welcome Maggie. Thanks for wading through it all. I realize its quite a lot of words so I hope that does not scare anyone off the discussion. I promise to be less prolix going forward.
You are welcome Maggie. Thanks for wading through it all. I realize its quite a lot of words so I hope that does not scare anyone off the discussion. I promise to be less prolix going forward.
Don, I admire your introduction to The Meursault Investigation. I'm working through the links, the novel, and Camus's novel. Thanks :)
Asma, your kind words are much appreciated. Hope you enjoy the books. Cheers, Don
Don, I've read your links in message 1. The New York Times link has well described the scenario of TMI towards the end of the article. I've started TMI as well as read a while ago The Stranger. Having done so, I've forgotten several details about it so have opted to reread it.
Thank you Don, for the extra materials. I'm in the middle of reading the book, and I'm liking it.
Observations on first chapters
The epigraph to TMI reads "The hour of crime does not strike at the same time for every people.This explains the permanence of history" seems to suggest a comparison - crimes committed by different people. The first sentence of the book ""Mama's still alive today"immediately refers us to The Stranger whose first line is "Maman died today." Harun, the narrator of TMI, talking to an unnamed person in a bar further invites comparisons to The Stranger, stating "I'm not even going to play the mourner" drawing a similarity between himself and Meursault in the first chapter of The Stranger in which Meursault goes through his mother's funeral process in a rote matter, alienated from her nursing home friends.
Robinson Crusoe is also repeatedly mentioned. What's up with that? Invoking the resentment of the Algerians (who identify with Friday) towards the pre-independence French (Crusoe)? Is Daoud making this an oppressor-oppressed narrative or is there something else to this novel?
Some vocabulary words from TMI:
- roumis = non-Muslims
- gaouri = as far as I can tell this is a Moroccan Arabic slang phrase for "European"
- Kabyle = The Kabyle people (Kabyle: Iqbayliyen) are a Berber ethnic group native to Kabylia in the north of Algeria, one hundred miles east of Algiers. They represent the largest Berber-speaking population of Algeria and the second largest in Africa. Its use suggests to me a certain irony in Harun, who identifies as "Arab" decrying "the colonizers." Algeria has a substantial non-Arab indigenous population (see ) to whom Arabs might just as much as Europeans be considered "colonizers."
The epigraph to TMI reads "The hour of crime does not strike at the same time for every people.This explains the permanence of history" seems to suggest a comparison - crimes committed by different people. The first sentence of the book ""Mama's still alive today"immediately refers us to The Stranger whose first line is "Maman died today." Harun, the narrator of TMI, talking to an unnamed person in a bar further invites comparisons to The Stranger, stating "I'm not even going to play the mourner" drawing a similarity between himself and Meursault in the first chapter of The Stranger in which Meursault goes through his mother's funeral process in a rote matter, alienated from her nursing home friends.
Robinson Crusoe is also repeatedly mentioned. What's up with that? Invoking the resentment of the Algerians (who identify with Friday) towards the pre-independence French (Crusoe)? Is Daoud making this an oppressor-oppressed narrative or is there something else to this novel?
Some vocabulary words from TMI:
- roumis = non-Muslims
- gaouri = as far as I can tell this is a Moroccan Arabic slang phrase for "European"
- Kabyle = The Kabyle people (Kabyle: Iqbayliyen) are a Berber ethnic group native to Kabylia in the north of Algeria, one hundred miles east of Algiers. They represent the largest Berber-speaking population of Algeria and the second largest in Africa. Its use suggests to me a certain irony in Harun, who identifies as "Arab" decrying "the colonizers." Algeria has a substantial non-Arab indigenous population (see ) to whom Arabs might just as much as Europeans be considered "colonizers."
As Asma has noted in an update, the name of the bar is "The Titanic." Metaphor for Algeria? The Arab Spring?
Anyway, Harun spends a lot of time explaining how personally significant is his brother's merder at the hands of Meursault. It reminds me of Auden's poem "Stop the Clocks":
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.
Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.
The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
Does anyone else feel any more than superficial commonalities or am I off base?
Is Harun constructing meaning in his life from this murder? If so, is it Meursault's failure to name his victim what makes the event so meaningful to Harun? Is his victimhood all that makes life meaningful to Harun?
Camus said "In a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the
hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life ... is properly the feeling of absurdity." Will TMI reject or embrace this notion of absurdity?
Anyway, Harun spends a lot of time explaining how personally significant is his brother's merder at the hands of Meursault. It reminds me of Auden's poem "Stop the Clocks":
Stop all the clocks, cut off the telephone,
Prevent the dog from barking with a juicy bone,
Silence the pianos and with muffled drum
Bring out the coffin, let the mourners come.
Let aeroplanes circle moaning overhead
Scribbling on the sky the message He Is Dead,
Put crepe bows round the white necks of the public doves,
Let the traffic policemen wear black cotton gloves.
He was my North, my South, my East and West,
My working week and my Sunday rest,
My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
I thought that love would last for ever: I was wrong.
The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.
Does anyone else feel any more than superficial commonalities or am I off base?
Is Harun constructing meaning in his life from this murder? If so, is it Meursault's failure to name his victim what makes the event so meaningful to Harun? Is his victimhood all that makes life meaningful to Harun?
Camus said "In a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the
hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life ... is properly the feeling of absurdity." Will TMI reject or embrace this notion of absurdity?
Don wrote: "...TMI's portrayal of Camus" At times the narrator Harun of TMI in his monologue seems to speak to Camus about the novel The Stranger.
Asma Fedosia wrote: "At times the narrator Harun of TMI in his monologue seems to speak to Camus about the novel The Stranger."
Yes, it does seem that way. If I remember right, it gets quite explicit later in the book. That is something I will be looking for as I work through it again. Harun seems to find Meursault and Camus interchangeable. Is Harun Daoud's alter ego as well? FWIW its worth I don't think Camus saw Meursault as a projection of himself and I'm pretty sure Daoud does not agree with everything Harun espouses. The relationship between authors and their characters can be very interesting. My favorite author frequently talks about conversations with characters.
Yes, it does seem that way. If I remember right, it gets quite explicit later in the book. That is something I will be looking for as I work through it again. Harun seems to find Meursault and Camus interchangeable. Is Harun Daoud's alter ego as well? FWIW its worth I don't think Camus saw Meursault as a projection of himself and I'm pretty sure Daoud does not agree with everything Harun espouses. The relationship between authors and their characters can be very interesting. My favorite author frequently talks about conversations with characters.
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "Thank you Don, for the extra materials. I'm in the middle of reading the book, and I'm liking it."
Great Dioni! Glad to hear it. Looking forward to your thoughts!
Great Dioni! Glad to hear it. Looking forward to your thoughts!
Asma Fedosia wrote: "Don, I've read your links in message 1. The New York Times link has well described the scenario of TMI towards the end of the article. I've started TMI as well as read a while ago [book:The Strange..."
How is that going for you Asma? Are you reading them side by side or one first and then the other?
How is that going for you Asma? Are you reading them side by side or one first and then the other?
FWIW - Daoud had an opinion piece in the NYT back on February 14 entitled "The Sexual Misery of the Arab World" :
that might be of interest.
that might be of interest.
Don wrote: "...The first sentence of the book ""Mama's still alive today"immediately refers us to The Stranger whose first line is "Maman died today." Harun,...invites comparisons to The Stranger..."Reviews of TMI pick out more of those oppositions and parallels between the novels. For example,
"The latter half of the story develops a specifically Algerian version of the absurd condition...Harun inherits the Frenchman’s guilt when he commits a second murder, a mirror image of Meursault’s. He isn’t dazzled by the sun, but acts under a luminous moon, and he kills at two in the morning, rather than [two in] the afternoon. His victim is a Frenchman (with a name) [Joseph] and the crime is therefore a perverse kind of restitution for his brother’s death. Yet he is held to account and interrogated by the victorious anti-French fighters." -- Robin Yasmin-Kassab, The Guardian, 24 June 2015
The phrase "restitution for his brother's death" better applies to Harun's mother. She feels relief when the death of Joseph symbolizes that of Meursault. But, her son Harun says that revenge is not his motive; it's the bewilderment about the event which gnaws at his thoughts. He is overpowered by his mother's ardor.
"...This isn't a trite story of forgiveness or revenge, it's a curse, it's a trap.The Financial Times (ft) review of TMI by Azadeh Moaveni mentions a parallel about the trials. The trials for Meursault and Harun are not about the murders but about immaterial behaviors.
What I want is to remember. I want it so much and so badly, maybe I could go back in time and get to that summer day in 1962 and make that beach off-limits, for two hours, to every possible Arab in this country. Or I could finally stand trial...I blame my mother, I lay the blame on her. The truth is, she committed that crime. She held my arm steady while Musa held hers and so on back to Abel or his brother..." -- TMI, ch IX
Don wrote: "...Harun seems to find Meursault and Camus interchangeable..."I read somewhere that Meursault narrates all or part of the story in The Stranger. When Harun has the occasional, one-sided conversations with the silent Meursault/Camus, he is questioning Meursault's version of events, as if the character Meursault wrote The Stranger.
Don wrote: "...Are you reading them side by side or one first and then the other?"Don, having previously read The Stranger, I've begun with TMI. I have also noticed your link to the Camus Society's chapter-by-chapter commentary, which I have bookmarked for my rereading of The Stranger. Have you noticed that some reviews of TMI take Camus's The Fall into consideration?
Don wrote: "...the name of the bar is "The Titanic." Metaphor for Algeria? The Arab Spring..."Chapter 2 of TMI. In French the passage is "L'histoire se déroule dans un bar, Le Titanic, devenu depuis l'indépendance Djebel Zendel (haut lieu des maquisards), où Haroun, nourri d'alcool, fabule." The outside signboard says Djebel Zendel, an Algerian mountain Zendel/Zendal near the town of Souk Tleta/Tlata (the map's zoom may be initially slow). It's a good hideout for the discontent and the partisans, like a bar is a haven.
Harun precedes the passage about Djebel Zendel with his complaint about the bar closings. The Titanic is perhaps to sink beneath the waves of official policy. He then postulates a scenario about the last bar Titanic.
After the Djebel Zendel passage, Harun complains about the current stodginess. Though his brother Musa resembles every customer in the bar, everyone is concerned with his own lot, "...dragging their feet since Independence. Strolling along beaches, burying dead mothers, looking out from their balconies for hours." In other words, the nickname is more apt than is the signboard which smacks of the stirring, old days.
Asma Fedosia wrote: "Don wrote: "...the name of the bar is "The Titanic." Metaphor for Algeria? The Arab Spring..."
Chapter 2 of TMI. In French the passage is "L'histoire se déroule dans un bar, Le Titanic, devenu dep..."
Thanks Asma. Yes, he links it to the closing of the bars in Algiers. I wonder if he also meant that phenomenon to suggest even more such as the slow withering of secular life.
Chapter 2 of TMI. In French the passage is "L'histoire se déroule dans un bar, Le Titanic, devenu dep..."
Thanks Asma. Yes, he links it to the closing of the bars in Algiers. I wonder if he also meant that phenomenon to suggest even more such as the slow withering of secular life.
Asma Fedosia wrote: "Don wrote: "...Are you reading them side by side or one first and then the other?"
Don, having previously read The Stranger, I've begun with TMI. I have also noticed your link to the Camus Society..."
Yes, although I only skimmed most of the reviews, I seem to remember several references to The Fall as well as to The Myth of Sisyphus. If I remember correctly, Harun will also mention those books later on.
Don, having previously read The Stranger, I've begun with TMI. I have also noticed your link to the Camus Society..."
Yes, although I only skimmed most of the reviews, I seem to remember several references to The Fall as well as to The Myth of Sisyphus. If I remember correctly, Harun will also mention those books later on.
Asma Fedosia wrote: "Don wrote: "...Harun seems to find Meursault and Camus interchangeable..."
I read somewhere that Meursault narrates all or part of the story in The Stranger. When Harun has the occasional, one-sid..."
Yes, this is very interesting to me since the big disconnect seems to be that in Camus' The Stranger the ending seems pretty clear that Meursault is to be executed and that the book is his final memoir. The last sentence is "I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate."
Harun, on the other hand, states that Meursault was not executed. This puts The Stranger in a completely different light and makes TMI almost like an alternate universe. It also makes Harun's grievance a bit more understandable. After all if Meursault was not executed his brother's murder would be unavenged. Yet, I don't think Daoud is endorsing vengeance or the dealth penalty here. I think he is instead suggesting the criminal justice system does not convert the absurdity of life into meaningfulness. Neither execution nor non-execution really makes much difference.
I read somewhere that Meursault narrates all or part of the story in The Stranger. When Harun has the occasional, one-sid..."
Yes, this is very interesting to me since the big disconnect seems to be that in Camus' The Stranger the ending seems pretty clear that Meursault is to be executed and that the book is his final memoir. The last sentence is "I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate."
Harun, on the other hand, states that Meursault was not executed. This puts The Stranger in a completely different light and makes TMI almost like an alternate universe. It also makes Harun's grievance a bit more understandable. After all if Meursault was not executed his brother's murder would be unavenged. Yet, I don't think Daoud is endorsing vengeance or the dealth penalty here. I think he is instead suggesting the criminal justice system does not convert the absurdity of life into meaningfulness. Neither execution nor non-execution really makes much difference.
Argggggh I reread the Camus and was going to get this from the library and between that impulse and the next day someone requested it from our statewide borrowing system. Is anyone in this group in SC? Heh. Will join in once I get it, but it's the only copy in the system.
Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "Argggggh I reread the Camus and was going to get this from the library and between that impulse and the next day someone requested it from our statewide borrowing system. Is anyone in this group in..."
Oh noes! Sorry to hear that. Hope you are able to join us soon!
Oh noes! Sorry to hear that. Hope you are able to join us soon!
Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "...someone requested it from our statewide borrowing system. Is anyone in this group in SC?..."I don't live in SC but do recall a visit there. I usually do my one-stop book search via worldcat.org . I don't mind the kind of format.
I hope that your book comes to you soon.
Don wrote: "...This divorce between man and his life ... is properly the feeling of absurdity." Will TMI reject or embrace this notion of absurdity? ."In some way, Harun's mother hijacks his life. His missing father and older brother disappear under mysterious circumstances. They live reclusive lives with strong, nagging memories about those unknowns. In particular, Harun's mother is the driving investigator into Meursault's murder of Musa and the instigator in Harun's murder of Joseph. Even their family name is uncertain though they have a surname. Harun's job as an important functionary makes the reader wonder about his work connections when he takes off hours of the workday to accommodate Meriem's schedule. He complains about changing female attitudes, the women of the past seeming more spontaneous than those of the present seem. He disengages from possibly conjugal relationships. During the time of Resistance, he is not a participant; that act of individuality sticks in the memories of his neighbors and of his interrogator. There are more differences in his thinking. The TIME when he murders Joseph isn't a factor in guilt or innocence, according to him. Whereas his interrogator says that the time and context make all the difference. He enjoys wine, while the vineyards and bars are vanishing. The unscientific mentality pertaining to the supernatural makes no sense to Harun. Proof of reality is in the senses, it seems. At best, the supernatural is an area of philosophizing and unproven hypotheses. There too he differs from his countrymen. For the character Harun, Algerian life is incompatible with his views and desires.
Don wrote: "Asma Fedosia wrote: "...I wonder if he also meant...to suggest even more such as the slow withering of secular life.."He thinks differently than the many Algerians of the novel do. Some philosopher/s (Aquinas? Bonaventure?) said that reason takes you only so far, the rest of the way is faith. Harun stops short at reason and faith, proving truth by way of the senses, imho.
Don wrote: "Is Harun constructing meaning in his life from this murder? If so, is it Meursault's failure to name his victim what makes the event so meaningful to Harun? Is his victimhood all that makes life meaningful to Harun? ."These questions go to the heart of the issue. So far, I know very little about the murdered brother and why he should be named. For me his identity is still vague. Harun's identity as brother of Musa does seem to give meaning to the lives of both Harun and his mother. So, Harun seems unable to communicate or elicit sympathy for a life unjustly taken, but instead communicates his egocentric perspectives constructing his own identity in the course of the narrative.
Asma Fedosia wrote: "Don wrote: "...This divorce between man and his life ... is properly the feeling of absurdity." Will TMI reject or embrace this notion of absurdity? ."
In some way, Harun's mother hijacks his life..."
Very interesting observations Asma. Yes, Harun talks at length about how his mother shapes his life to his detriment. His relationship with her is much like that of Meursault and his mother. Harun talks a bit about Meursault's mother. Denying that she was buried in Belcourt. But in The Stranger, Meursault's mother is buried in Marengo. Because he "stops short at reason and faith" as you put it, it seems he further alienates himself.
In some way, Harun's mother hijacks his life..."
Very interesting observations Asma. Yes, Harun talks at length about how his mother shapes his life to his detriment. His relationship with her is much like that of Meursault and his mother. Harun talks a bit about Meursault's mother. Denying that she was buried in Belcourt. But in The Stranger, Meursault's mother is buried in Marengo. Because he "stops short at reason and faith" as you put it, it seems he further alienates himself.
Suzann wrote:..."So, Harun seems unable to communicate or elicit sympathy for a life unjustly taken, but instead communicates his egocentric perspectives constructing his own identity in the course of the narrative. Great point Suzann. In many ways I think Doaud has very little sympathy for Harun. Harun talks about the various times he was a thief, about how he enjoyed playing the role of the martyr's brother, and there are other less than noble depictions.
I was struck in particular by one passage in which Harun says "When we happened to pass through a European neighborhood, we used to amuse ourselves by pointing at the houses and divvying up like spoils of war. One of would say, 'This one's mine, I touched it first!' and set off a frenzy of claims and counterclaims. We were five years old when we started doing that, can you imagine? As if our intuition was telling us what would happen when independence came, but leaving our the weapons." I can't help but think those lines are a nod in sympathy to Camus who was so much derided for not supporting full independence for Algeria.
Camus also is criticized for not naming Meursault's victim in The Stranger. Harun also seems to respond to this notion, stating at one point "In our neighborhood, in our world, we were Muslims, we had given names, faces, and habits. Period. The others were "the strangers," the roumis God brought here to put us to the test." Daoud may be suggesting some equivalence?
Another example, Harun, in the same paragraph says "so noby responded to them, people clammed up in their presence, leaned on the wall, and waited." Contrast this to Meursault's observation when he, Raymond, and Marie are leaving to go to Masson's house at the beach: "I saw a group of Arabs leaning against the front of the tobacconist's shop. They were staring at us in silence, but in that way of theirs, as if we were nothing but stones or dead trees." The social fault lines and alienation are palpable in both accounts.
I was struck in particular by one passage in which Harun says "When we happened to pass through a European neighborhood, we used to amuse ourselves by pointing at the houses and divvying up like spoils of war. One of would say, 'This one's mine, I touched it first!' and set off a frenzy of claims and counterclaims. We were five years old when we started doing that, can you imagine? As if our intuition was telling us what would happen when independence came, but leaving our the weapons." I can't help but think those lines are a nod in sympathy to Camus who was so much derided for not supporting full independence for Algeria.
Camus also is criticized for not naming Meursault's victim in The Stranger. Harun also seems to respond to this notion, stating at one point "In our neighborhood, in our world, we were Muslims, we had given names, faces, and habits. Period. The others were "the strangers," the roumis God brought here to put us to the test." Daoud may be suggesting some equivalence?
Another example, Harun, in the same paragraph says "so noby responded to them, people clammed up in their presence, leaned on the wall, and waited." Contrast this to Meursault's observation when he, Raymond, and Marie are leaving to go to Masson's house at the beach: "I saw a group of Arabs leaning against the front of the tobacconist's shop. They were staring at us in silence, but in that way of theirs, as if we were nothing but stones or dead trees." The social fault lines and alienation are palpable in both accounts.
In rereading The Stranger, the Arab French distinction seemed less important to me than the more universal isolation or alienation of every human from every other. Culture, family, love, does not connect humans; alienation is the human condition. For me Harun misses the point. We are all nameless. Names do not bestow meaning. Existence precedes essence. Harun, unlike Meursault, is hung up on finding and assigning meaning. Maybe Harun will embrace the absurdity of his existence once he understands the futility of his current pursuit, but so far I'm not finding his narrative a constructive addition to Meursault's narrative. Events will look different from every perspective. Facts are not the issue. Camu has created a narrative to express a perspective on the human condition. I haven't found that Daoud adds anything substantial, but I might change my mind by the end of the book.
Suzann wrote: I haven't found that Daoud adds anything substantial"..."
Thanks for those comments Suzann. It will be interesting to see if your views change. When I read this last year and reviewed it I described it as Daoud's "homage" to Camus which I think is generally consistent with your views. Many other reviewers see TMI as an indictment of Camus and I think my own reading and appreciation of TMI has been flavored by that disagreement.
Thanks for those comments Suzann. It will be interesting to see if your views change. When I read this last year and reviewed it I described it as Daoud's "homage" to Camus which I think is generally consistent with your views. Many other reviewers see TMI as an indictment of Camus and I think my own reading and appreciation of TMI has been flavored by that disagreement.
Finished both. Had meant to drag them out so as to have comments to make but they got away from me and I'm not sure there is much to say anyway. Harun is a mirror image of Meursault just as TMI is a mirror image of The Stranger. So many lines and events in perfect parallel. The point I think is to illustrate the universality of Camus' insight into absurdity as well as the universality of the challenge that life presents. These books challenge us to defy whatever life we are born into and to knowingly choose to act how we will. That sounds like a big yawn and yet both novels overcome that and explore such ideas in compelling ways (at least to me).
Sidebar: Meursault faced execution by the guillotine. Hard to believe but France retained this execution method until 1977. The last person so executed was Hamida Djandoubi, a Tunisian agricultural worker who had been convicted of the torture and murder of a 21-year-old woman in Marseille.
Don wrote: "Finished both. ..."I'm still reading The Stranger. Noticed a film "Yazgi" (2009) on Amazon video. Its basis is Camus's The Stranger, and it's set in Turkey. Its main character is Musa, who exemplifies the absurdity of existence, i.e., nothing which happens bothers him, he doesn't care one way or another, not even bothered enough to say words of defense.
Asma Fedosia wrote: " Noticed a film "Yazgi" (2009) on Amazon video. Its basis is Camus's The Stranger, and it's set in Turkey. Its main character is Musa..."Such a coincidence that his name is Musa?
I just finished the book. I didn't reread The Stranger, as I just read it (for the first time) last year. It doesn't seem like a long time ago, but I already forgot things, mainly the ending of Meursault's execution. (I refreshed my memory by just reading the book summary.) The ending seems to be the biggest difference between Meursault in The Stranger, and Meursault in TMI. But I guess from TMI plotting point of view it was necessary for Daoud to change this.
I see TMI as about someone who is obsessed about the death of his brother, though much of the obsession stems from his mother's obsession. Without the mother's grief, the murder probably wouldn't affect his life as much. In a way Harun seems angriest because what happens to his brother "ruins" his life, more than the actual murder, and the non-naming.
I like how TMI offers a fresh perspective of a native Algerian. I can understand the anger towards Meursault as the face of the French colonists. I agree with Harun about the absurdity of the use of the word "Arab". Quoting him: "Arab. I never felt Arab, you know. Arab-ness is like Negro-ness, which only exists in the white man's eyes."
The absurdity of not naming the victim, the absurdity of calling a native Arab, of putting a group of people in the same pot, and label it haphazardly, it is all so degrading!
This is however countered with the irony of Harun calling all non-Muslims roumi (which according to google is a disparaging word).
I liked the book. Would it be able to stand on its own without The Stranger? I'd like to think it could, thought the connection to the Stranger doesn't hurt the promotion surely. From TMI I learned more about the socio dynamics of native Algerians, the relationship with their French colonists, and the history of the country relating to its independence. My only reservation is that the book could be a bit repetitive. I guess there's only so much you can write about in the limited context. It could probably benefit from a tighter editing - cut it by 20-30 pages. Just my 2c :)
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "I like how TMI offers a fresh perspective of a native Algerian. I can understand the anger towards Meursault as the face of the French colonists...."
Yes, Meursault's description of his victim in The Stranger does provide a focal point for resentments. I wonder if that has been hiding in plain sight all along though. I'm pretty sure Camus did intentionally. After all, he was an early pioneer in calling to attention the grievances of Muslim Algerians. Encyclopedia Britannica tells us:
"In the two years before the outbreak of World War II, Camus served his apprenticeship as a journalist with Alger-Républicain in many capacities, including those of leader- (editorial-) writer, subeditor, political reporter, and book reviewer. He reviewed some of Jean-Paul Sartre’s early literary works and wrote an important series of articles analyzing social conditions among the Muslims of the Kabylie region. These articles, reprinted in abridged form in Actuelles III (1958), drew attention (15 years in advance) to many of the injustices that led to the outbreak of the Algerian War in 1954. Camus took his stand on humanitarian rather than ideological grounds and continued to see a future role for France in Algeria while not ignoring colonialist injustices."
Not only do the two books have many parallels, but the two novelists do as well, both starting out as journalists and TMI and The Stranger each being their first novels. Interesting complexities. “To be Algerian is to be schizophrenic�. Kamel Daoud uses these words to describe his feelings concerning his nation, Algeria.
Yes, Meursault's description of his victim in The Stranger does provide a focal point for resentments. I wonder if that has been hiding in plain sight all along though. I'm pretty sure Camus did intentionally. After all, he was an early pioneer in calling to attention the grievances of Muslim Algerians. Encyclopedia Britannica tells us:
"In the two years before the outbreak of World War II, Camus served his apprenticeship as a journalist with Alger-Républicain in many capacities, including those of leader- (editorial-) writer, subeditor, political reporter, and book reviewer. He reviewed some of Jean-Paul Sartre’s early literary works and wrote an important series of articles analyzing social conditions among the Muslims of the Kabylie region. These articles, reprinted in abridged form in Actuelles III (1958), drew attention (15 years in advance) to many of the injustices that led to the outbreak of the Algerian War in 1954. Camus took his stand on humanitarian rather than ideological grounds and continued to see a future role for France in Algeria while not ignoring colonialist injustices."
Not only do the two books have many parallels, but the two novelists do as well, both starting out as journalists and TMI and The Stranger each being their first novels. Interesting complexities. “To be Algerian is to be schizophrenic�. Kamel Daoud uses these words to describe his feelings concerning his nation, Algeria.
Don wrote: "I'm pretty sure Camus did intentionally. After all, he was an early pioneer in calling to attention the grievances of Muslim Algerians."I wouldn't know that just by reading The Stranger. Perhaps that's the reason TMI treats Meursault as the killer and the author of the famous book. That way it strictly talks about Meursault in the context of the fictional world, and never crosses to Camus.
About the parallels, yes it becomes even clearer after Harun's killing as he doesn't seem to be too bothered about the killing, his victim, whether he's the right guy or not. He doesn't seem too care about his mother either. Seems his concern is mostly on how her "craziness" affects his life. They're all meant to be ironic I think.
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "...Perhaps that's the reason TMI treats Meursault as the killer and the author of the famous book. That way it strictly talks about Meursault in the context of the fictional world, and never crosses to Camus."
Thanks Dioni. Sorry, didn't mean to pick on you to play contrarian with.
Thanks Dioni. Sorry, didn't mean to pick on you to play contrarian with.
I am not impressed with the US reviews of TMI. It seems as if though, more than providing any real analysis of the text, they are more concerned with using it to bolster the dominant US political ideology, ie., the tired old Manichean conflict in which all that is European, male, Christian, or capitalist is evil and all that non-European, non-Christian, non-capitalist or female is good. Daoud is more subtle than that and conveys much more complexity. It is amusing to see how quickly his treatment is being reversed from hero to pariah based upon his unwillingness to play along.
If TMI is to be celebrated for attacking Camus or Mearsault's racism, it would seem to be a little late to the party. That seems to have been going on for nearly 50 years now:
- "Incidentally, the fate of the Arab's family is completely overlooked in the proceedings."
Poore, Charles. "Books of the Times." New York Times 1 (1949): 11.
- "That Albert Camus systematically excluded - one is tempted to say 'eradicated' -both women and the colonial Arab population of North Africa from his work is a literary fact."
- "Meursault resembles other French Algerians in that he is a foreigner amongst the members of the indigenous population, in fact perceiving them as less than human. Yet he is also a stranger among the French colonials, hence exemplifying both meanings of L'Etranger. By refusing to participate in his society's legal discourse, he refuses the construction of cause and effect, the linkage of past with present, by extension, the justifications of colonialism. His crime, in the argument of the prosecution, portends a potential revolt on the part of the colonized."
Google Scholar provides a nearly inexhaustible supply of similar observations. Even Camus in his own Nobel Prize acceptance speech:
"At the same time, after having outlined the nobility of the writer's craft, I should have put him in his proper place. He has no other claims but those which he shares with his comrades in arms: vulnerable but obstinate, unjust but impassioned for justice, doing his work without shame or pride in view of everybody, not ceasing to be divided between sorrow and beauty, and devoted finally to drawing from his double existence the creations that he obstinately tries to erect in the destructive movement of history. Who after all this can expect from him complete solutions and high morals? Truth is mysterious, elusive, always to be conquered. Liberty is dangerous, as hard to live with as it is elating. We must march toward these two goals, painfully but resolutely, certain in advance of our failings on so long a road. What writer would from now on in good conscience dare set himself up as a preacher of virtue? For myself, I must state once more that I am not of this kind. I have never been able to renounce the light, the pleasure of being, and the freedom in which I grew up. But although this nostalgia explains many of my errors and my faults, it has doubtless helped me toward a better understanding of my craft. It is helping me still to support unquestioningly all those silent men who sustain the life made for them in the world only through memory of the return of brief and free happiness."
In the penultimate chapter, Harun asks "What would you call a story that puts four characters around a table: a Kabyle waiter the size of a giant, an apparently tubercular deaf-mute, a young graduate student with a skeptical eye, and an old wine bibber who makes assertions but offers not proofs?" Just guessing Daoud was thinking of literary critics (including myself) when he wrote of the tubercular deaf-mute.
- "Incidentally, the fate of the Arab's family is completely overlooked in the proceedings."
Poore, Charles. "Books of the Times." New York Times 1 (1949): 11.
- "That Albert Camus systematically excluded - one is tempted to say 'eradicated' -both women and the colonial Arab population of North Africa from his work is a literary fact."
- "Meursault resembles other French Algerians in that he is a foreigner amongst the members of the indigenous population, in fact perceiving them as less than human. Yet he is also a stranger among the French colonials, hence exemplifying both meanings of L'Etranger. By refusing to participate in his society's legal discourse, he refuses the construction of cause and effect, the linkage of past with present, by extension, the justifications of colonialism. His crime, in the argument of the prosecution, portends a potential revolt on the part of the colonized."
Google Scholar provides a nearly inexhaustible supply of similar observations. Even Camus in his own Nobel Prize acceptance speech:
"At the same time, after having outlined the nobility of the writer's craft, I should have put him in his proper place. He has no other claims but those which he shares with his comrades in arms: vulnerable but obstinate, unjust but impassioned for justice, doing his work without shame or pride in view of everybody, not ceasing to be divided between sorrow and beauty, and devoted finally to drawing from his double existence the creations that he obstinately tries to erect in the destructive movement of history. Who after all this can expect from him complete solutions and high morals? Truth is mysterious, elusive, always to be conquered. Liberty is dangerous, as hard to live with as it is elating. We must march toward these two goals, painfully but resolutely, certain in advance of our failings on so long a road. What writer would from now on in good conscience dare set himself up as a preacher of virtue? For myself, I must state once more that I am not of this kind. I have never been able to renounce the light, the pleasure of being, and the freedom in which I grew up. But although this nostalgia explains many of my errors and my faults, it has doubtless helped me toward a better understanding of my craft. It is helping me still to support unquestioningly all those silent men who sustain the life made for them in the world only through memory of the return of brief and free happiness."
In the penultimate chapter, Harun asks "What would you call a story that puts four characters around a table: a Kabyle waiter the size of a giant, an apparently tubercular deaf-mute, a young graduate student with a skeptical eye, and an old wine bibber who makes assertions but offers not proofs?" Just guessing Daoud was thinking of literary critics (including myself) when he wrote of the tubercular deaf-mute.
Don wrote: "Sorry, didn't mean to pick on you to play contrarian with. "I didn't think that at all Don! That's what book group discussion is for - to get varying views and opinions. :)
After reading more about Camus, it seems more obvious to me why Daoud didn't include Camus the real person in TMI universe. It would muddle the whole thing.
Regarding the four characters you mentioned at the end:
I do wonder a bit who the "tubercular deaf-mute" is? Harun refers to him a few times as the ghost reading newspaper. As you said Don it could be a metaphor for us the audience, but that didn't cross my mind while reading. I was kind of waiting for this person to take shape at the end (e.g. joining old Harun and the journalist/"young graduate student with a skeptical eye"), but he never did.
Suzann wrote: "...Harun's identity as brother of Musa does seem to give meaning to the lives of both Harun and his mother...."I suppose so. The mysteries about her missing son occupy her thoughts and actions. The mother's influence on Harun is due to his very young age when Musa disappears. I agree that Harun lacks remorse for his murder of the neighbor. Harun's response is worth a reread.
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "Such a coincidence that his name is Musa?..."In the Turkish film adaptation Yazgi Musa is Camus's Meursault character. They share actions small and large. There's a twist of plot, in which he's falsely accused of a different murder. At times I wish that the 'it's-irrelevant-to-me' attitude' about everything meets with understanding, Otherwise, he is liable to upend any favor.
Don wrote: "...Kamel Daoud uses these words...concerning his nation, Algeria..."In your message 39 about L'Agence Vu, the very last picture frame of the Oran beach houses evokes Camus when he describes Massoud's Algiers house: "Raymond's friend lived in a little wooden bungalow at the far end of the beach. The back of the house rested up against the rocks, and the pilings that held it up in front went straight down into the water." [Part I.6]
Dioni (Bookie Mee) wrote: "...he doesn't seem to be too bothered about...his victim, whether he's the right guy or not. He doesn't seem too care about his mother..."If you recall in The Stranger, Meursault is more logical and even-tempered than are hot-tempered, emotional Raymond and Salamano. He takes Raymond's side in court. and presents Raymond's viewpoint without evidence. I imagine the possibility that he takes the girl's side, too, without a qualm. What's missing is the truth. The judge too simply accepts Meursault's statement without evidence. Logic isn't equivalent to truth. Truth in life isn't unequivocal, especially when the sun's intense glare is searing your senses.
Don wrote: "...... "I'm glad that Daoud is returning to literature from journalism; the books also are a vehicle for his views and are more lasting.
Asma Fedosia wrote: "I'm glad that Daoud is returning to literature from journalism; the books also are a vehicle for his views and are more lasting. ."
Same here. I look forward to his next novel.
Same here. I look forward to his next novel.
The World's Literature in Europe
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The Stranger (other topics)
A review and aggregated links and summaries of other reviews are available at the excellent and essential Literary Saloon:
About Kamel Daoud:
About the Translator, John Cullen: