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Some people I know are doing a project on body image and its effect on girls at our school (we're in middle school) and they're going to be interviewing me about it this week. I believe they'll be asking me about body image in general, but also messages to girls our age that feel defined by their body. I thought it would be interesting to see what your views are on the topic.
I know there's a sort of similar discussion already, but it hasn't been commented on in a while and I think it's a bit different.

Its been awhile since I was your age, so I'll be curious to see how your study turns out. I know how we looked was very important, and I felt very gawkish and self conscious. I think we all did, boys and girls alike. I remember some of the girls being rather mean and judgemental towards the more nerdy and awkward. I was skinny and lanky and didn't develop fully until highschool. I remember I wanted a pencil skirt. Several of the popular girls wore them and they looked like movie stars to me! My parents searched all over to get me one for Christmas. They found one. I loved it, even though it wasn't tight at all like it was supposed to be. I had no hips to speak of and the fabric gathered at the waistband under the belt. But I wore that skirt out. So image mattered. I had other interests thankfully so my identity was not solely caught up in it.

Sherry wrote: "Its been awhile since I was your age, so I'll be curious to see how your study turns out. I know how we looked was very important, and I felt very gawkish and self conscious. I think we all did, bo..."

That sounds pretty similar to what I've been noticing at my school, people making comments at lunch tables (which are round at my school, only making it easier for gossip and things like that) and on the bus rides to and from school.
What I also find strange is girls first being shamed for not being fully developed or sexy enough or whatever, but then they'll wear something even slightly revealing and they get dress coded. I don't even think it's possible to find a balance between the two that everyone can accept.

As far as body image, I started middle school around the time that Title IX was enacted in the US, which prohibited unequal treatment of women and girls in educational programs and activities. One of the things that meant is that there started to be more girls sports than there had been before, even though there was still a lot of resistance to it. I feel like that made a big difference for us because there was a chance for us to focus more on what our bodies could do instead just on what they looked like.

Its still a matter of two steps forward and one step back and sometimes I feel like we really are going backwards with regard to body image. But there are also way more female athletes for girls to look up to now than there were when I was in middle school. And more girls and women all around the world playing sports professionally, training for the Olympics and just participating in sports for their own pleasure. I feel like that has to be making some kind of a difference even if we still have a long way to go.

Bunny wrote: "As far as body image, I started middle school around the time that Title IX was enacted in the US, which prohibited unequal treatment of women and girls in educational programs and activities. One ..."

That's pretty interesting, do you think there would be a difference in how Title IX was reacted to if it was enacted before one started middle school as oppose to during?

How would you say that women playing more sports changes how girls feel about their body image? I think it could either make them feel pressured to look like them or, like you mentioned before, help them realize what their bodies could do?

Editing out the grammar part now. Continuing with the body image part. I think women playing more sports changes the conversation about female bodies in some important ways. Because achievement in sports is not about whether someone else likes how you look or whether you fit a certain image. Its about whether you can do the sport.

Whether you are pretty is all about what someone else thinks, its about whatever the current fashion in appearance is. But if you can put the ball over the net or lift the weight or ski down the mountain or catch the wave, then you can. What someone else thinks doesn't come into it.

Its like being good at math or being able to knit or knowing how to catch a fish or play the piano. Other people don't get to decide if you can do those things. You can or you can't. If you can't and you want to then you can learn and practice and get better. Maybe you will never be Olympic caliber, but its more within your control I think.

Also athletic bodies come in all shapes and sizes from big weightlifters and wrestlers to tiny gymnasts, and they all are athletes, its not like anyone says oh you aren't pretty enough to play soccer put that ball away.

Bunny, those are some really interesting and important points, and I totally agree with what you're saying. I also think that sometimes the way that the media portrays these athletes could also reflect body image, (which is kind of the case in everything quite unfortunately) but the diversity probably helps.

I saw this thing earlier in the week about a photographer who was doing a photo series and a book of images showing all the many different sizes and shapes of bodies that belong to different world class athletes from sumo wrestlers to jockeys. I will try to find it.

Here are some of the images:

it's very interesting to me to read these comments on concerns of girls in middle school. i was in middle school during the late 50's, but it was called jumior high school then. 7th through 9th grades, and i graduated in '61. there were no barbie dolls, no 'seventeen' magazine' (that i knew of to show me what teenage models looked like), no teen shows on tv. we were concerned with whether the seams of our nylons were straight (no panty hose yet - we wore girdles and garters to hold them up), whether our skirts covered our knees (yep, dress codes. skirts/dresses for girls, slacks/sport shirts for boys. no jeans and t-shirts. in fact, at that time, jeans were what farmers wore. they were not a fashion statement in my world. and, i wasn't aware of bikers, beatniks, and rebels yet)). i suffered because my best friend from grade school had moved away, and the junior high i attended was made up of kids who knew each other from their own grade schools, and i was completely socially awkward and lost). we lived in fear of the russians during the cold war, and stood facing our lockers in the hallways during nuclear attack drills. i knew little about fashion, even less about my body and what image it was supposed to be portraying. i wore what i was told, believed what i was told, and acted the way i was told. i wasn't allowed to wear makeup of any kind, or shave my legs, do my nails, or any of the girl-y things that are of concern today. i accepted what i was told. it was truly a different world!

in a way, it was simpler, because i didn't have to think for myself. in another way, it was much sadder because i wasn't allowed to think for myself. but, this whole idea of shame, embarrassment, anxiety, worry, and/or concern about my body just didn't enter into my life. the pressure to be a certain way, have a certain type of body, either wasn't there, or i was simply ignorant of it. i was too busy getting good grades, following the rules, and feeling lonely. none of that had to do with body image, though. all i know is that i made it.

Sofia wrote: "Sherry wrote: "Its been awhile since I was your age, so I'll be curious to see how your study turns out. I know how we looked was very important, and I felt very gawkish and self conscious. I think..."

That's typical. Young girls often get mixed messages about their sexuality. In fact grown women in the workplace do too. I remember in college one young man took it upon himself to call me on the phone to tell me how I sat inappropriately in a skirt. This person was an acquaintance, only, not someone I knew all that well. It took me a while to realize his comments said more about him than they did about me.

Sandra wrote: "it's very interesting to me to read these comments on concerns of girls in middle school. i was in middle school during the late 50's, but it was called jumior high school then. 7th through 9th gra..."

You were just a few years before me, and i remember that sort of sensibility in grammar school. My junior high school (still called that when I went)required skirts etc, but many of the girls were focused on popularity and were proud of the labels on their clothes.

Sherry wrote: "Sandra wrote: "it's very interesting to me to read these comments on concerns of girls in middle school. i was in middle school during the late 50's, but it was called jumior high school then. 7th ..."

now that you mention it, i remember the label thing in high school. i was in the second tier of popularity - we couldn't afford labels! but my best friend and i dated athletes, so we had a sort of recognition for that.

the first tier of popularity was called the 'clique' and at our 25th high school reunion, the dj played a special song just for the 'clique' girls to dance to. yep, even 25 yrs. later, that was what mattered - how popular you had been! sheesh! kind of like dr. seuss's 'the sneetches'.

and, emma, i agree that the whole definition by body image has become a major world-wide epidemic, and that the only thing we can control is our own self-definition. it's quite the courageous stand to take, i think.

Emma wrote: "I'm in college myself, and I think that girls really feel defined by their bodies, especially during high school. I try to be thankful for my body for allowing me to do everything I can and allow m..."
That's a great attitude. I like to be healthy! I am grateful that i have been in good health most of my life. I enjoy looking positive, friendly engaging and fun. I have lots of crazy stories about how others -sometimes complete strangers - felt the need to instruct me towards a better " look". Some of it constructive and useful and others not so much, even comical.

I have been blessed with great friends and wonderful experiences. I laugh a lot!

Emma wrote: "I'm in college myself, and I think that girls really feel defined by their bodies, especially during high school. I try to be thankful for my body for allowing me to do everything I can and allow m..."

Emma (and Sherry): I agree, and that kind of mindset is what I'd say helps people remain themselves despite what others say. Do you have any ideas on how people can try to get themselves to have that attitude and outlook on things? I've been trying to get myself to be more positive, and I do think it's slowly been working.

I definitely agree with staying away from magazines and negative media. Or at least don't absorb them uncritically. Learn and think about how media and advertising operate. Think critically about how those messages work and how we can counter them in our own heads. I try to look at at least as much media criticism as media.

Also I find that some bloggers can be a better source for information about style and fashion without as much playing on insecurities to sell products. When media tries to do better I try to support it. Like Dove and Always - not perfect, but at least they are trying.

Like the Always "Like a Girl" campaign

i agree with bunny about getting to know how advertising and the media work. if we can remember that their main goal is to make money, and to do that, they have to encourage, provoke, manipulate, and trick us to buy their products and to buy into what images they're selling, we are more likely to feel empowered to stand our ground and accept ourselves as we are, rather than yearn to change ourselves to look the same as what they present to us.

one thing that has helped me is reminding myself that anything i see in a picture or on a screen is a two-dimensional image, and therefore, not three-dimensional reality. i don't trust anything presented to me in 2-d as being real - photoshop, retouch, alterations, computer graphics - therefore, such things are fantasies, unrealistic expectations, and fraudulent. they are unattainable.

that realization has helped arm me with mental weapons to protect myself from the beliefs they are selling me. little by little. i can't change them, but i can continue working on me. that is where my reality lies.

Getting away from and being critical of what the media presents is extremely important, no matter how hard it can be. Especially with photoshopping, it just makes a certain body even harder to achieve for people influenced by those images.
Bunny, that video was pretty good, and like you said, it's great that they're trying. But wow, the comments...

I didn't even look at the comments. It's pretty much habit not to unless I know that it's a moderated space.

Sofia wrote: "Emma wrote: "I'm in college myself, and I think that girls really feel defined by their bodies, especially during high school. I try to be thankful for my body for allowing me to do everything I ca..."

How to keep a positive attitude! Sometimes easier said than done. During these terrific (and therefore terri-fying ) middle school years your body and your mind are changing daily because your body is growing more rapidly than it ever will again, probably. All your adult parts are being installed. So no wonder we all worry about body image in those years. There is no set image, how can there be! Everyday a new young woman looks back from the mirror. So know that every day is different. Smile a lot! Everbody you see in the halls is having the same problem with the changing face in the mirror. Your smile will reassure them. It says to them, "it's good to see you". And its scientifically proven that the very act of smiling can elevate your mood. For heaven's sake, if you find yourself a bit blue, don't get down on yourself, give yourself a hug! Moods, like the weather pass. Give your body a high five! It's being miraculous these days!

Sherry wrote: "Sofia wrote: "Emma wrote: "I'm in college myself, and I think that girls really feel defined by their bodies, especially during high school. I try to be thankful for my body for allowing me to do e..."

beautifully said!

Thank you for that Sherry, as Sandra said, very well said. And being positive is definitely easier said than done. Smiling not only improves your mood, but I'd say it also minimizes people making comments about you, seeing that it doesn't seem to affect you, even if it does.

I like that you put "perfect" in quotes because very often to me those photo shopped images don't look perfect they look weird. Like a store window dummy or something.

I also do quite a bit of photo editing, more editing scenes from movies so not as much changing people's appearance, although I do change hair color sometimes. But I do know how easy it is to just change one's appearance once you know how. I hadn't thought about it as a way to change how you view body image, I'll remember that next time. Thanks Emma!

Emma wrote: "Bunny wrote: "I like that you put "perfect" in quotes because very often to me those photo shopped images don't look perfect they look weird. Like a store window dummy or something."

I agree! Ofte..."

color me cynical, but can you really believe them?

Hats off to your classmates for doing this project! It's really ambitious, especially for middle school, and that's awesome. :)

I was in middle school in the late 1990s. It was, without a doubt, the worst time of my life in terms of body image. See, I skipped a grade and so I was a year younger than my classmates. When everyone is growing and developing as fast as they are in middle school...this makes a huge, awkward difference.

Most of my body issues came from the other girls in my school, not TV or magazines. I think that in middle school (and high school to a lesser extent) everyone is starting to define themselves. There's this push to be The Jock, or The Artsy One, or The Girly Girl, or whatever. It's not til years later that we realize it's more fun to define ourselves by lots of things (alwso way better for our self confidence). With everyone trying to be something, it creates hostility. Judgement. As we figure out the social order, we get mean. And, of course, the massive amount of hormones make it all feel even worse.

I could be wrong, but I think even if magazines and TV and social media gave a better representation of women's bodies...middle school would still be tough because of human nature. Figuring out how to be an independent adult kinda starts there, and it's a rough learning curve.

Thanks for posting this! And please keep us posted on the project! :)

Quoting from the latest video Jason has shared:
Feminists hate beautiful women because of their irrational distaste for normal male female gender dynamics and sexual relations. Everything sexual and everything masculine must be seen as problematic. Much of their hatred stems of course from jealousy. Ugly fat blue armpit haired feminists frustrated by the fact that some women can be more attractive than they are, what a shocker... Femininity and masculinity are as immovable as your fat lazy diabetes ridden ass."

I cannot believe that anyone would think that kind of hostility is an appropriate thing to share in this group and most particularly in this thread. I don't know what he imagines he is accomplishing by posting those videos full of silly straw man arguments but I do wish he would find something else to do. The notion that feminists are just a bunch of fat ugly women who are jealous because the pretty girls get all the boys was old and tired in the 1830's when it was trotted out against the Grimke sisters and it hasn't gotten any less so in the interim.

I don't know if he actually believes this nonsense or just enjoys being obnoxious but either way, I've had enough.

Blocking Jason now.

Bunny wrote: "Quoting from the latest video Jason has shared:
Feminists hate beautiful women because of their irrational distaste for normal male female gender dynamics and sexual relations. Everything sexual a..."

bunny,

did your blocking of jason block him for everyone? i got an email saying that jason posted a response on this thread, but every which way i attempted to see what he posted, i was sent to a different site on GR. just curious. but, from what you posted, i completely agree w/ blocking him (? i'm assuming jason is a male) even though i didn't see his entire post/video. i also agree that what i read is nonsense.

It appears that Jason has deleted his comments from this thread. Which I think is a very good thing because they were in no way appropriate to a thread about body image for middle school girls.

Jason has been blocked from the group, but it appears he must have deleted his comments in this thread of his own volition before that. Either way, he violated group rules on a number of occasions despite multiple warnings. Carry on!

amy schumer is one of my favorites. just thought i'd post this:
i copied this from an internet article:

whitneyzombie 2 days ago
On the left is a sculpture of the goddess Aphrodite, who is renowned for her beauty. On the right is @amyschumer. What a wonderful resemblance between two beautiful women. So many women and young girls are shamed by the media and fashion industry for not having a flat stomach and not being a size zero. But look, the goddess of beauty is portrayed here with stomach rolls and doesn't have a perfectly smooth, toned body. I want to remind everyone that they do not have to be a Victoria's Secret model to be a beautiful goddess with a beautiful body. Your body is not bad, ugly, or wrong. Embrace your inner goddess. #bodypositive #amyschumer #everybodyisagoodbody #Aphrodite

this captioned a photo of a sculpture of the goddess aphrodite (nude) next to a photo of a semi-nude amy schumer in a similar pose. the resemblance in their bodies is remarkable. yay for amy schumer!

she recently made a movie 'trainwreck' that she both wrote and starred in, and is a stand-up comedienne with her own series on hbo. she mentioned, in one of her comedy specials, that she was told to lose 10 lbs. before making the movie, because the camera puts on 10 lbs. she basically said, what was the point? if i lose 10 lbs., the camera will make me look like i really do anyway.

the fact that she isn't model thin has come under fire lately, but after doing this photo shoot, she's basically showing the world that she doesn't care. unfortunately, while i tried to copy the photos to post here, too, they didn't come through, and i found this article purely by accident. needless to say, she is beautiful in both body and spirit. a positive role model for anyone worrying about body shaming and being thin enough.