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Welcome to our June 2014 fiction group read of....




A Question of Upbringing by Anthony Powell


Thanks to Susan for nominating it. Thanks to everyone who nominated books and who voted in the June 2014 poll.


Here's a bit more information about A Question of Upbringing:

Published in 1951, it begins the story of a trio of boys, Nicholas Jenkins (the narrator), Charles Stringham, and Peter Templer, who are friends at a nameless school (based upon Powell's public school Eton College) and then move on to different paths. A fourth figure, Kenneth Widmerpool, stands slightly apart from them, poised for greatness.

The novel is concerned with the flow and transience of life and the play of time upon love and friendship. Another major theme introduced in A Question of Upbringing is the consequence of living by the will.

In presenting four very different characters - "the artist, the romantic, the cynic, and the man of will" - Anthony Powell sets the scene for an extended exploration of what it means to grow and mature. The language of youth, deployed with precision, is used to depict the emergence of the boys into manhood in a period when memories of the Great War overshadow many of their elders.

The title of the book had its origin in an incident in which Anthony Powell was a passenger in a car driven by his friend, the Old Etonian screenwriter, Thomas Wilton ("Tommy") Phipps. Phipps and Powell found themselves driving straight towards an oncoming vehicle.

Powell later recorded, "Seizing the hand-brake as we sped towards what seemed imminent collision, Phipps muttered to himself, 'This is just going to be a question of upbringing.'

A Question of Upbringing is the first of the twelve-volume A Dance to the Music of Time cycle of novels.

Rather than nominate additional volumes in the A Dance to the Music of Time series for future BYT fiction reads, we agreed to set up a Hot books/small group reads thread for the rest of the series...

Click here for the Hot books/small group reads > "A Dance To The Music Of Time" thread

Here's a bit more information about A Dance to the Music of Time...

This twelve-volume sequence A Dance to the Music of Time traces a colourful group of English acquaintances from 1914 to 1971. The slowly developing narrative centres around life's poignant encounters between friends and lovers who later drift apart and yet keep reencountering each other over numerous unfolding decades as they move through the vicissitudes of marriage, work, ageing, and ultimately death.

Until the last three volumes, the standard excitements of old-fashioned plots (What will happen next? Will x marry y? Will y murder z?) seem far less important than time's slow reshuffling of friends, acquaintances, and lovers in intricate human arabesques."

Time and Anthony Powell: A Critical Study by Robert L. Selig

Click here for the Hot books/small group reads > "A Dance To The Music Of Time" thread

Here's to another interesting and insightful BYT fiction discussion.

Here are some discussion points/questions about A Question of Upbringing by Anthony Powell that you may enjoy mulling over whilst you're reading, or after you've read, the book....


A question of reliability: Nick Jenkins, the narrator, tells the reader that "it is not always easy... to judge others by a consistent standard." How reliable is Nick Jenkins as a narrator? To what extent is he objective, honest and trustworthy?

A question of perception: Although Nick Jenkins narrates the story, to what extent is A Question of Upbringing the story of Jenkins' life? And, to what extent is it how he sees other people's lives?

A question of time: Time in A Question of Upbringing seems to pass quickly and sometimes disproportionately. Anthony Powell devotes a similar number of pages to narrator Nick Jenkins' entire Eton career as to one summer in France. What does this tell us about time and memory, and the significance some passages of our lives may assume in retrospect?

A question of relationships: Throughout A Question of Upbringing people and relationships change and evolve, for example the friendships between Jenkins and Stringham and Templer. How credible is this? To what extent does it mirror your own life experience?

A question of friendship: The move from adolescence to adulthood puts a strain on the friendship of Jenkins, Stringham and Templer. How strong was their friendship? To what extent is the way the narrative plays out foreshadowed in the book's descriptions of school days?

A question of style: Stringham' warns Templer, "If you're not careful you will suffer the awful fate of the man who always knows the right clothes to wear and the right shop to buy them at." Why is the fate of a man awful if he knows the appropriate dress for every occasion?

How reliable is clothing as an indicator of personality? For Templar clothes are often the main subject of conversation however, by the end of the book, Templer appears a more careless person; Uncle Giles is described as "neat and still slightly military in appearance"; Sunny Farebrother invents a machine to straighten collars despite being too thrifty to dress well; and Widmerpool is notorious for dressing awkwardly. So, therefore, do people that dress well try to conceal their personality flaws? Are people who are less style conscious more profound and more moral?

A question of eccentricity: Uncle Giles is initially described by Nick Jenkins as an abnormal eccentric who is clueless about how society works, however Nick's view changes throughout A Question of Upbringing, to what extent is Nick learning that knowledge can be acquired even from the most unexpected sources, and that no one is truly insignificant?

A question of influence: Uncle Giles refers to how "knowing all the right people" accounts for others success. Sillery devotes significant energy to forming and maintaining relationships with those he believes might be useful. Templar gets a good job through his parent's connections despite not finishing university. Sillery tries to convince Stringham's mother and Buster to allow him to take a job rather than complete his studies. Many characters seem to enjoy success without hard work by knowing the right people. Life at Oxford University seems to be more socialising than education. What role does influence play in A Question of Upbringing?

A question of criticism: At one point in A Question of Upbringing Widmerpool says to Nick, "Jenkins, do you mind home truths?" How valid are Widmerpool's observations? What does this tell us about Widmerpool? About Nick? And how does it contradict or confirm what we've discovered up to this point?

A question of personal change: How does Widmerpool change throughout the course of A Question of Upbringing? What would you predict for him based on what you have seen of him in A Question of Upbringing? How interesting and appealing do you find Widmerpool?

A question of enjoyment: A Question of Upbringing is the start of the A Dance to the Music of Time twelve-volume sequence, to what extent does it work as a stand alone novel? How inspired do you feel to continue with the series?

I first read A Question of Upbringing some years ago - I think I read the first three books of Dance to the Music of Time and then never got around to reading the rest. I mentioned it on the book group I belong to with Val and she said something similar - that she had read it (or some of it) a long time ago and would like to get back to it. Perhaps this will be the impetus I need to get around to finally reading it because, re-reading the first book, I realised how much I had loved it and why it had stuck somewhere in the back of my mind.

I suppose the first book reads a little like Waugh in a way - that public school, Eton followed by Oxford - youth of the between the war upper classes. Obviously, Powell is establishing his main characters, who we will follow - Jenkins, Stringham, Templer and Widmerpool. I have to say that I loved the phone call to the police about Le Bas, which resulted in his arrest and Silery's tea parties...

Even written as a book set in the 'now' of the present, it seems very nostalgic. It does stand alone as a novel, but it begs to be continued and it leaves so many questions and relationships that you feel you need to pick up the next book and read on. I look forward to doing so as a 'hot read', although I am loathe to read ahead too far, as I think I may forget individual books if we are going to read on. However, I really enjoyed re-reading this - it was even better than I recalled.

I enjoyed reading your comments Susan.


Thanks once again for nominating this marvellous book.

Susan wrote: "I first read A Question of Upbringing some years ago - I think I read the first three books of Dance to the Music of Time and then never got around to reading the rest."

Why was that Susan?

I am curious as I have been gripped by the series since your nomination inspired me to read A Question of Upbringing and I cannot imagine not feeling inspired to continue having read the first three volumes.

Susan wrote: "I mentioned it on the book group I belong to with Val and she said something similar - that she had read it (or some of it) a long time ago and would like to get back to it."

Hurrah!

Susan wrote: "Perhaps this will be the impetus I need to get around to finally reading it because, re-reading the first book, I realised how much I had loved it and why it had stuck somewhere in the back of my mind."

Hurrah (again)!

Susan wrote: "I suppose the first book reads a little like Waugh in a way - that public school, Eton followed by Oxford - youth of the between the war upper classes. Obviously, Powell is establishing his main characters, who we will follow - Jenkins, Stringham, Templer and Widmerpool."

I agree that A Question of Upbringing, whilst very enjoyable, is laying the foundations for what is to follow. The series really started to cohere for me once I was into The Acceptance World (Vol 3).

Susan wrote: "It does stand alone as a novel, but it begs to be continued and it leaves so many questions and relationships that you feel you need to pick up the next book and read on."

Absolutely. I hope plenty of BYTers feel the same way. For me this feels like the quintessential BYT series: sublime writing that evokes so much of our era.

Susan wrote: "I look forward to doing so as a 'hot read', although I am loathe to read ahead too far, as I think I may forget individual books if we are going to read on."

Quite understandable.

Some advice... Hilary Spurling is your friend.

I mentioned this over here on the Hot books/small group reads > "A Dance To The Music Of Time" thread....

"Invitation To The Dance" by Hilary Spurling is a wonderful companion handbook.

Every time a character comes up who I need to be reminded about, I just look in Hilary's wonderful book and refresh my memory. I've put a bit more information at the bottom of this post.

Susan wrote: "I really enjoyed re-reading A Question of Upbringing - it was even better than I recalled. "

That's great news. It is splendid. If you feel inspired I'd love to know your responses to any, or all, of the questions I posted above.

I have just started Casanova's Chinese Restaurant (Vol 5). I have to force myself not to gorge on the series by reading at least one other book in between each volume.

I cannot praise the A Dance to the Music of Time series highly enough. It's deliciously addictive, an absolute pleasure and all written in an accessible, beautiful and lucid style.

I hope plenty of BYTers read and discuss this book.

* * * * * * *



"Invitation To The Dance" by Hilary Spurling

Anthony Powell's "A Dance to the Music of Time" is a landmark of twentieth-century writing. Hilary Spurling has written an invaluable companion to the 12-volume masterpiece, creating a magnificent database of Powell’s imagination and England’s cultural landscape.

Invitation To The Dance is best used as an intermittent accompaniment for those reading "A Dance To The Music Of Time" and contains a wealth of information to help the reader keep track of characters.

This book was much sought after by Powell enthusiasts during a lengthy period of being out of print and Random House must be praised for republishing it.

"Invitation To The Dance" is a wonderful handbook for anyone reading the series.

I can't think why I didn't read on with the series last time - I think it's just a matter of having too many books on the go.

I think that by picking 4 very different characters, it allows Powell more opportunity to cover a range of experiences. Somehow I feel that Widmerpool will be the 'tortoise' of the race - the others looked down on him at school (almost despised him at times), but you feel he is the one with a clear path and ambition. Of course, I may be wrong, as I haven't had a chance to read the next one yet, but it is a feeling I have.

In the sense that we see things from Jenkins perspective, he is not always a reliable witness. His perspective on events and people change over time - even in this first book. Again, though, that mirrors life. You have friends when you are younger and, when you meet them years later, you can't even remember what you liked about them (and probably they feel the same way).

^ Thanks Susan.


I just wrote a comment elsewhere, a somewhat predictable comment I might add, about the sheer number of wonderful books out there. So I completely understand how you could have got distracted by all the other wonderful books and just never got round to continuing with this series.

A GoodReads friend suggested, and as a follow on to A Dance To The Music of Time, a similar series of books by Simon Raven called Alms For Oblivion. I'd read about him/them in Invisible Ink: How 100 Great Authors Disappeared so her recommendation struck a massive chord. I picked up the first volume today, only to conclude that I need to finish this series before tackling another series. They do look great though - outside the BYT time period. Alas.

You make a great point about changing perspectives through life - both personally and in the context of this series of books.

I've now read 5/12 of the A Dance To The Music of Time series and can confirm your legendary prescience is again on the money (well as far as I know so far). Whilst I am ensuring any comments are suitably cryptic so that you can stay spoiler-free, I actually think much of the joy of the Powell books is in the writing rather than the plot twists (although there are plenty of those too). The series really does get better and better (at least until Vol 5) and this first book just lays the foundations.

Yes, that is the problem with choosing a book from a series, I suppose. The first book does lay the foundations and doesn't necessarily stand alone that well. However, as a portrait of life between the wars (at least for young people of a certain class) it is quite reealing.

I think Henrietta's War might suffer the same problem. There are two volumes in the fictional memoirs - the second being Henrietta Sees it Through. Re-reading them, I have noticed that the second volume deals with more difficult events - the death of friends children, for example. However, as a demonstration of British propaganda during wartime they are interesting.

As you say, so many authors do just disappear - I have not heard of Simon Raven, so will take a look.

The Simon Raven series looks really good... Oh no, not another series I want to read!!!

I hadn't intended to join in on this read, as I'm already reading my way chronologically through the works of Graham Greene, plus it's taking me months on end to finish 'Alone in Berlin' in German, so I'm trying to avoid getting hooked up in a long series at the moment.

However, I noticed the 'Spring' volume in a charity bookshop yesterday and couldn't resist picking it up - so I might be tempted to start it fairly soon!

Susan, I've ordered the second 'Henrietta' book from the library. I found the same with the Cheri books, that the first one did work alone but became even stronger in retrospect after reading 'The Last of Cheri'.

PS, I meant to say that I did really enjoy the TV series some years back, although I don't remember it in any detail now.

Also, I haven't read any books by Simon Raven, but he was the screenwriter for the fantastic epic TV series The Pallisers, based on the great Victorian novels by Anthony Trollope.

Judy, that's the problem - too many temptations! I love Anthony Trollope. He's another author I would like to re read. However, hope you do get to the Powell books, which are very good.

Meant to say how pleased I am you are going to read the second Henrietta book :)

Thanks, Susan - I'm looking forward to it! And yes, too many tempting books altogether.

Judy wrote: "I hadn't intended to join in on this read, as I'm already reading my way chronologically through the works of Graham Greene, plus it's taking me months on end to finish 'Alone in Berlin' in German, so I'm trying to avoid getting hooked up in a long series at the moment."

As we've observed many times, so many great books so little time. I can quite understand the attraction of all those books. I have numerous similar projects going on.

Judy wrote: "I noticed the 'Spring' volume in a charity bookshop yesterday and couldn't resist picking it up - so I might be tempted to start it fairly soon!"

Hurrah.

Susan wrote: "Judy, hope you do get to the Powell books, which are very good."

Me too. They are wonderful.

Nigeyb wrote: "Here are some discussion points/questions about A Question of Upbringing by Anthony Powell that you may enjoy mulling over whilst you're reading, or after you've read, ..."

Your list of questions is way too long to deal with in any thoroughness. I would pick out just two.

First, the question of Nick's reliability. He isn't reliable. The book poses a situation in which other people (as in life) are at bottom inscrutable. Nick acknowledges this, and his consequent inability to get it right. On top of this there is the principle of change built into all romans fleuve. At the end of the 12 novels Widmerpool will be a different person than he is here. Has Nick mis-estimated him, or failed to understand? Does Widmerpool evolve and Nick merely trundles along behind? I think the issue with Nick is nothing to do with reliability but with sincerity, and I feel no uneasiness about that whatsoever.

The second point I was going to address is the question of why a man's fate is awful if he knows how to dress for every occasion. This is bound up with Uncle Giles's opinion of Nick as a man who knows nothing about society -- i.e. how to dress. If your view of people and society is that limited you are not going to be much of a narrator -- your sympathies will be limited and your accommodation to change and 'otherness' will be fatally impoverished. The question of upbringing, in this analysis, would be how to escape your upbringing into the wider world. In that sense it is a finished, stand-alone novel. Fortunately for us, there are eleven more of them.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and interesting observations Charles.

Charles wrote: "First, the question of Nick's reliability. He isn't reliable. The book poses a situation in which other people (as in life) are at bottom inscrutable. Nick acknowledges this, and his consequent inability to get it right."

The whole question of Nick's narration is one of the many fascinating aspects of this book, and indeed the rest of the series (though please bear in mind I am only up to book five). Not only are we seeing everything through Nick's set of personal filters and so only get his version, he also appears to be incredibly passive. It's as if he is a spectator in his own life. Is this because he chooses to leave out his own role or is he genuinely just sitting back and not actively taking any part?

There is also the question of his memory, we all tend to distort and misremember. Nick is relating events with over twenty years distance which would inevitably result in some inaccuracies in his memories.

The Braddock alias Thorne incident provides an interesting case study. Nick apparently does nothing when Stringham tells him he called the police about La Bas. The conversation is between Stringham and Templer with no comment from Nick.

Charles wrote: "At the end of the 12 novels Widmerpool will be a different person than he is here. Has Nick mis-estimated him, or failed to understand? Does Widmerpool evolve and Nick merely trundles along behind? I think the issue with Nick is nothing to do with reliability but with sincerity, and I feel no uneasiness about that whatsoever."

That's very interesting. Widmerpool, up until the start of book six, has not really changed at all. The behaviour that seemed so eccentric at school seems to serve him much better in adult life. Even in this book it is clear there's more to him than meets Nick's eye. His handling of the spat between Lundquist and Orn in France gives an indication of his abilities - not only does he manage to effect a reconciliation he also offers Nick some honest feeback... "Jenkins, do you mind home truths?" This seems to me to be the moment that Nick sees some of Widmerpool's other qualities and he starts to become less of a joke figure to him. His regular appearances are, for me (and so far), one of the highlight's of the series. Powell seems to revel in coming up with unlikely moments to reintroduce Widmerpool.

Charles wrote: "The second point I was going to address is the question of why a man's fate is awful if he knows how to dress for every occasion. This is bound up with Uncle Giles's opinion of Nick as a man who knows nothing about society -- i.e. how to dress. If your view of people and society is that limited you are not going to be much of a narrator -- your sympathies will be limited and your accommodation to change and 'otherness' will be fatally impoverished. The question of upbringing, in this analysis, would be how to escape your upbringing into the wider world. In that sense it is a finished, stand-alone novel. Fortunately for us, there are eleven more of them. "

That's a very interesting interpretation Charles. I was being far more literal when considering this point. As I say above there are quite a few clothes references throughout the book (Uncle Giles, Sunny Farebrother, Widmerpool, and, of course, the dandy Templer). There seems to be a message that "judging a book by its cover" can be at best foolish and at worst completely misleading.

Thanks again Charles.

You have a good insight Charles.
I think that at this stage of the book Nick is so completely immersed in his upbringing and educational background that he can't see outside it with any real understanding, so he knows what is 'correct' behaviour and dress, but does not have much confidence in his instincts outside his quite narrow experience.
The re-evaluation of some characters later shows him growing up and gaining more experience and confidence. I'm not sure that this makes him unreliable and I agree with Charles that he was sincere. He is trying to show what he thought about people at the time and how his opinions changed.

Val wrote: "I agree with Charles that he was sincere. He is trying to show what he thought about people at the time and how his opinions changed. "

Yes, I am sure you are both right. I think it is an interesting way of approaching the book (and the series) though.

Nick is Anthony Powell's alter ego and yet he generally functions as a cipher, merely reporting on the actions of the other characters.

Do we as readers accept the narration at face value? To what extent are we meant to question Nick's own perceptions and/or agenda?

Occasionally I have felt frustrated (more in the later books than this one) about the lack of information we usually get about Nick's own life. Everything we discover is through the dialogue of others, and as reported by Nick. I daresay people have written dissertations on this aspect of the series, and on the question of first person narratives.

Nick is indeed to some extent a cipher, the corridor through which the book passes. But only, I think, to an extent. At issue here is the nature of truth, of knowledge of other people. Either Nick is brought forward as a person as vibrant as the others, or he steps back and lets the other characters speak for themselves. (Frankly, after 12 books I would get very tired of a nosy and intrusive Nick always whispering in me ear.) Nick is no Watson, always beclouding matters with his ignorance and thus elevating Holmes's brilliance by comparison.

I think we have no choice but to accept at face value what the narrator tells us. In literature there is no getting behind the characters for an independent judgement as we would do in life. Nigeyb's original question goes to the heart of what sort of book this is. It is not a Modernist puzzle like The Good Soldier. For that you need a complicated narrator, and disparities between what the narrator says and does, and Nick doesn't do anything much. To get behind the narrator in some other way requires multiple viewpoints, as in The Alexandria Quartet or The Sound and the Fury. A proxy-author will have to intrude himself into the novel Postmodern-fashion if he wants if he wants to raise the question of who knows what about what can or cannot be known about and that what so-and-so is telling us is possibly a pack of lies because it always somehow is.

I don't think anyone could stomach 12 volumes of this.

Nor do I want any 19th-century ideas that people are somehow transparent or knowable. That kind of naive scientific rationalism is no longer tenable.

So what are the choices for Nick? A sunny, well-meaning, uncomplicated person who tells us to the best of his knowledge and ability what he has experienced.

What I'm saying in my donnish way is that the Dance is what it is because Nick is who he is. If Nick were not a cipher it would be a different book and I think we would like it less. Imagine if it were given over to the care of Widmerpool! Ugh.

^ What a wonderful read Charles. Thanks.


Charles wrote: " If Nick were not a cipher it would be a different book and I think we would like it less."

You make some very good points and I think you're spot on when you suggest that to sustain a series over 12 books needs a light touch, and that's exactly what we get with Nick.

This made me laugh out loud...

Charles wrote: " Imagine if it were given over to the care of Widmerpool! Ugh. "

Absolutely. He would make an appalling narrator, missing so much of what is right under his nose and highlighting a lot of banality. We only need look at his impromptu speech at the Old Boys dinner later in the series to realise he can be an insufferable bore.

That said, I always look forward to the arrival of Widmerpool and was slightly disappointed with Casanova's Chinese Restaurant (Volume 5) because he makes only a fleeting appearance.

Nick is the Yin to Widmerpool's Yang.... art vs commerce; politics vs literature; ambition vs bohemianism; middle class vs upper class; etc. Or so it seems to me at nearly the halfway point.

Jan C wrote: "I've recently started. So far I just find it confusing."


I'm delighted to hear you've started reading A Question of Upbringing Jan. I can't see on your books you're currently reading how pages you've read so far. Where are you up to?

I agree that it takes a bit of time to get into however I believe it is well worth the effort and, overall, it's remarkably accessible and easy to read.

For me the quality of the writing is one of the book's primary delights, to the extent that I would advise you to read a synopsis if you continue to feel confused.

I'm also happy to try and clarify anything you don't understand. Feel free to ask any questions.

I found the list of major characters (theres one for each volume) at anthonypowell.org.uk helpful...



And if you progress with the series I'd strongly recommend getting a copy of "Invitation To The Dance" by Hilary Spurling



Anthony Powell's "A Dance to the Music of Time" is a landmark of twentieth-century writing. Hilary Spurling has written an invaluable companion to the 12-volume masterpiece, creating a magnificent database of Powell’s imagination and England’s cultural landscape.

Invitation To The Dance is best used as an intermittent accompaniment for those reading "A Dance To The Music Of Time" and contains a wealth of information to help the reader keep track of characters.

This book was much sought after by Powell enthusiasts during a lengthy period of being out of print and Random House must be praised for republishing it.

I find it really helpful as a reference whilst working through the series.

I have downloaded the guide. I have a biography of Anthony Powell and will be interested to see how autobiographical Dance is.

Great news Susan.


Susan wrote: "I have downloaded the guide."

How easy is it to search a downloaded book? I use Kindle but only for straight reads - not flicking backwards and forwards. I have the paper version of Invitation To The Dance and enjoy flicking from section to section. Just a thought.

Susan wrote: "I have a biography of Anthony Powell...."

Ooh. Which one?

Susan wrote: "....and will be interested to see how autobiographical Dance is."

Me too. There's clearly a lot of real world characters, or hybrid versions, so I would also be fascinated to know how much mirrored Powell's own life.

By the by, The Kindly Ones is yet another winner. The Kindly Ones being Volume 5 - I'm about 80 pages in so far and it takes us up to the immediate pre-WW2 period (after sections in 1914 and the mid-1920s).

Anthony Powell: A Life

Yes, a paperback of the guide might be better than kindle, but remember my no book buying policy :)

^ Oh yes. You've got to adhere to the policy.


No Exceptions. No Excuses.

:-))

What a marvellous cover on this edition of Anthony Powell: A Life....

I have had this book years, literally, and never read it. I unearthed it during my book clearing frenzy, but it's not on kindle, so I kept it.

^ My library has a copy so please let us know how you get on. The reviews here on GR seem to be pretty good too. I think I'll wait until I've read all 12 volumes of ADTTMOT before reading it though.

Yes, I want to read them all first too. Ah, if not for the distractions (however pleasant) of NetGalley....

I had never heard of Anthony Powell, so a big thank you for nominating this! I am three chapters in and loving it. I think Powell captures with amazing accuracy and compassion the curious blend of awkwardness and confidence of adolescent boys.

Glad you are enjoying it Erin. That's what is so great about book groups, isn't it, finding new authors? :)

Finished book one, onto book two now! Absolutely loving it. So glad it was chosen for this month.

I'm excited to continue reading the series to see how Nick's relationships with everyone progress. That's what I've been finding most interesting. The way his friendships with Stringham and Templer end is very realistic. A lot of friendships cool off and/or disappear in that high school-college-real life transitional period.

Another aspect of the book I'm enjoying is the whole perspective/time thing (something you guys discussed earlier), since we do have a first person narration here. I love books that play around with reliability and perspective, as Powell is doing here. Nick often makes sure to point out that his opinion on people, or his perspective of events, has changed. It's a great way of showing how the passing of time changes perspectives. That goes along with how different events are condensed in different ways. In answer to one of Nigeyb's discussion questions, this shows how the past is distorted in our minds. When looking back on the past, certain events stand out in our minds because of how they shaped us, while other less important events/times are condensed or forgotten. Another means of reminding us that this is all Nick's recollections.

One more thing, when reading about Sillery's tea parties, I was immediately reminded of Professor Slughorn from Harry Potter. Is this a recurring character in literature- maybe just British lit- that I have never noticed before?

Tea is an essential part of British life Amanda ;)

Glad you are enjoying the series and have carried on reading. I intend to as soon as I have time - I just have a backlog of review books to read at the moment.

Sorry I should have clarified! I meant more of the teacher who purposefully surrounds himself with and plays favorites with the students he thinks will be most successful. And he also usually interferes with the students lives/futures, like how Sillery did with Stringham.

Slughorn and Sillery are the only ones I can think of, but it's so oddly similar I'm not sure if it's a trope I haven't noticed before, or if Rowling may have picked it up from this.

Amanda wrote: "Absolutely loving it."


I'm so pleased to hear that Amanda. I feel very passionately about this book now, and indeed the whole series, so am delighted when others share this enthusiasm.

I've just started Volume 7 and I think it gets better and better.

Amanda wrote: "A lot of friendships cool off and/or disappear in that high school-college-real life transitional period. "

Yes indeed, although as you will discover the characters keep disappearing and reappearing as the dance moves forward in time.

Amanda wrote: "I meant more of the teacher who purposefully surrounds himself with and plays favorites with the students he thinks will be most successful. And he also usually interferes with the students lives/futures, like how Sillery did with Stringham."

Another example is Miss Brodie in The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie (a book we read here at BYT)

Sillery's motivation is all about power and influence. He hopes to build and retain influence through gaining positions for his acolytes. He goes to great lengths with Stringham as you now know.

Amanda wrote: "In answer to one of Nigeyb's discussion questions, this shows how the past is distorted in our minds. When looking back on the past, certain events stand out in our minds because of how they shaped us, while other less important events/times are condensed or forgotten. Another means of reminding us that this is all Nick's recollections."

I read something recently (sadly I cannot remember where or who it was by) about how unreliable memory tuns out to be. We are so selective about what we remember and how we remember it. Often completely misremembering and distorting things that have happened to us. All of which, for me, adds to the intrigue of the first person narrative.

This Ted Talk covers similar territory...


I've not seen it yet but will make a point of doing so (if I remember).

I remember being invited to tea by my tutor when I was at Uni, many years ago. We had a tutorial group and I think he made a valiant effort to get to know us. He was quite elderly and generally fell asleep after about half an hour, bless him, at which point we would try to tiptoe out without waking him up.

Tutors are supposed to be interested in their group of students, not just their work, but Sillery does pick out favourites. Miss Brodie does the same thing to schoolgirls, which is more worrying. There is Julian Morrow in The Secret History as well, whose influence is not exactly for the best.

Yes, can think of lots of examples, Val - not all British, as you say with The Secret History. Special Topics in Calamity Physics also has that special relationship with a professor, if I remember rightly (I'm currently re-reading it).

Thank you for the link Nigeyb, I'll check it out!

And thanks for the info Val and Susan! I guess I haven't read many books that are set at a university. And my college experience was very different. It was up to the student to cultivate relationships with the professors and major advisors. So it all seems kinda backwards to me!

Special Topics in Calamity Physics is high up on my to-read list Susan! I'm assuming you like it since you've read it twice? I read Night Film a few months ago and really really enjoyed it.

In Wartime and Aftermath: English Literature and Its Background, 1939 60, the chapter Writers on an Island Bernard Bergonzi writes about Julian Maclaren-Ross, another writer I'll have to investigate. Bergonzi says "Anthony Powell turned him into a fictional character as X. Trapnel in Books Do Furnish a Room."

^ Curiously the knowledge that JMR features is one of the primary motivators for me to read this series. The other being Susan's endorsement. I cannot tell you how much I am enjoying this series and, despite being into Volume 8 now, still am waiting for the arrival of X. Trapnel.

Apropos my suggestion in the George Orwell Favourite Author thread, of a Statue of George Orwell. After reading about Anthony Powell's Music of Time in Wartime and Aftermath: English Literature and Its Background, 1939 60, in which Bernard Bergonzi discusses over several pages, he says "Powell's greatest creation is Kenneth Widmerpool. He dominates the sequence and is one of the most fascinatingly awful characters in modern fiction"�."Widmerpool is a superb comic figure, but he also embodies the power of an unsurmountable will." "If there is any underlying thematic element in the sequence, it is Powell's respectful interest in the will."

This gave me the idea. What about creating statues in prominent public spaces of iconic Legends of Literature.

Who wouldn't smile every time they passed by a large statue of Kenneth Widmerpool.

I like your idea, Greg.

The only statue of a fictional character I've ever seen was a beautiful one of Sherlock Holmes in Edinburgh.

I think they have Alice in Wonderland at Central Park in New York City (if American Pickers is to be believed).

And, here in Chicago they have the Wizard of Oz characters in Oz Park. He may have lived near there or maybe it's across the street from the Children's Hospital. It is years since I've been over there for a softball game and bar hopping.

Greg wrote: "Who wouldn't smile every time they passed by a large statue of Kenneth Widmerpool."


Splendid suggestion. Where do I sign?

Now then, and back to the book, for those short on time, here's the "Digested Classic" version of A Question of Upbringing...



Or you can listen to it here...



And the audio version is available on a podcast from iTunes. I've downloaded it and will let you know what it's like. I usually find John Crace's digested classics to be very droll and chucklesome.

I also came across a Podcast called "Book Fight" which I'd never heard of before. I have downloaded Episode 56 which, as you've probably already guessed, is about "Anthony Powell, A Question of Upbringing". It's an hour and a half. Again, I will report back.

We’re joined by musician and novelist Wesley Stace (who you may also know as John Wesley Harding) to discuss the first novel in Anthony Powell’s 12-book cycle A Dance to the Music of Time. Once Mike finishes geeking out about meeting one of his favorite musicians——before recording the episode, Mike pulled his copy of Why We Fight off the shelf, and discovered he’d worn it out so much in his teens that his CD player wouldn’t even recognize the disc——we get down to discussing the book, and why Stace loves it so much.

Nigeyb wrote:


"I came across a Podcast called "Book Fight" which I'd never heard of before. I have downloaded Episode 56 which, as you've probably already guessed, is about "Anthony Powell, A Question of Upbringing". It's an hour and a half.

I will report back.

We’re joined by musician and novelist Wesley Stace (who you may also know as John Wesley Harding) to discuss the first novel in Anthony Powell’s 12-book cycle A Dance to the Music of Time. Once Mike finishes geeking out about meeting one of his favorite musicians——before recording the episode, Mike pulled his copy of Why We Fight off the shelf, and discovered he’d worn it out so much in his teens that his CD player wouldn’t even recognize the disc——we get down to discussing the book, and why Stace loves it so much.

"

My thoughts...

A very interesting and entertaining listen. Wesley Stace (author and musician) is very passionate about the book and offers some interesting thoughts.

The co-presenters are less incisive but it's all well worth a listen.

It's not all about the book, however it's easy to skip forward if you're not interested in the other stuff.

All three participants really enjoyed the book.

I'd add that if, in the unlikely event, you are unsure about continuing with the rest of the series, then this podcast would probably go quite some way to convincing you to continue.

On the question of "to continue, or not to continue?", I can only add that having just finished The Soldier's Art (Volume 8) the series continues to delight and astound. Just wonderful. Thanks again to Susan for nominating A Question of Upbringing and so inspiring me to embark upon this wonderful (and quintessentially BYTian) journey. My life has been immeasurably enriched.

Greg wrote: "Who wouldn't smile every time they passed by a large statue of Kenneth Widmerpool?"


It's now becoming clearer to me that Widmerpool, a somewhat ridiculous figure in this book, changes as the series continues. I'm now onto The Military Philosophers (Volume 9) and it's a very different Widmerpool we encounter.

If his current character and career trajectory continue I become less sure of his suitability as a statuary subject.

Nigeyb wrote It's now becoming clearer to me that Widmerpool, a somewhat ridiculous figure in this book, changes as the series continues. I'm now onto The Military Philosophers (Volume 9) and it's a very different Widmerpool we encounter.

If his current character and career trajectory continue I become less sure of his suitability as a statuary subject.

Nigeyb, only one thing for it, twelve statues of Kenneth Widmerpool.

Greg wrote: "Nigeyb, only one thing for it, twelve statues of Kenneth Widmerpool. "


Actually 12 different representations of Widmerpool, throughout 12 life stages, would be utterly fantastic.

On the Book Fight podcast that discusses this book, I did learn about something that happens to Widmerpool in the 1960s towards the end of the series that is jaw dropping. I cannot wait to read about it. I will say no more here, suffice it to say that a statue of the 1960s Widmerpool would be something to behold.

How marvellous is it to think of some of the characters from A Question of Upbringing still around in the 1960s and 1970s?

I find the whole thing so completely compelling.

How did Anthony Powell achieve such coherence and vitality across 12 volumes and a million words?

Nothing is lost or without its effect on the total pattern by the master of the dance.