Gone with the Wind
question
Is Ashley's reputation as a wimp among the fandom well-deserved?
Sauron
Oct 11, 2018 04:58PM
If you read any review of the movie, there is always criticism of how Ashley is such a goofy sissy and many people cannot understand why she's prefer the more masculine portrayal of Rhett Butler by Clark Gable in the film.
Indeed I too thought Ashley came off as a silly nerdy dweeb when I watched the movie the first time. However in the book I was impressed by Ashley. Not only was he a convincing portrayal of the well-educated aristocratic man but his experiences of fighting in the Civil War in his letters to Melanie really made me shudder at what Confederate soldiers faced in the battlefield.
Moreso when I actually began to research some of the battles he mentioned in an encyclopedia I bought shortly after the book and I began to view Ashley not only as braver than his movie counterpart but also as the true embodiment of bravery.
On top of being an intellectual and hardened vet, the way the book portrays his sincerity as a patriot as opposed to all the chickenhawk aristocrats who boasted they supported the Southern cause but in actuality were avoiding the draft and even secretly selling equipment and information to the Yankees is one other trait I respect.
Of course he is not perfect and as the Reconstruction shows he is so much like an old dog who can't learn new tricks, he would have gotten eaten alive in the new era without Scarlett's help and he's too nostalgic for the Old South. Indeed this gets suicidal as even though he genuinely prefers to avoid violence his adherence to Southern honor nearly gets him killed during the KKK terror.
I notice that for some reason Ashley's terrible portrayal by Leslie Howard has ruined the character so much that even people who later read the book still holds to the opinion that Ashley is a moronic doofus wimp even though the book clearly states his valor in war. Just go on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ discussion board of Gone With the Wind and you'll see rants about how Ashley was cowardly, Ashley is so selfish, etc.
Which I'm amazed because I wonder if they were reading the same book as I was.
What do you think?
Indeed I too thought Ashley came off as a silly nerdy dweeb when I watched the movie the first time. However in the book I was impressed by Ashley. Not only was he a convincing portrayal of the well-educated aristocratic man but his experiences of fighting in the Civil War in his letters to Melanie really made me shudder at what Confederate soldiers faced in the battlefield.
Moreso when I actually began to research some of the battles he mentioned in an encyclopedia I bought shortly after the book and I began to view Ashley not only as braver than his movie counterpart but also as the true embodiment of bravery.
On top of being an intellectual and hardened vet, the way the book portrays his sincerity as a patriot as opposed to all the chickenhawk aristocrats who boasted they supported the Southern cause but in actuality were avoiding the draft and even secretly selling equipment and information to the Yankees is one other trait I respect.
Of course he is not perfect and as the Reconstruction shows he is so much like an old dog who can't learn new tricks, he would have gotten eaten alive in the new era without Scarlett's help and he's too nostalgic for the Old South. Indeed this gets suicidal as even though he genuinely prefers to avoid violence his adherence to Southern honor nearly gets him killed during the KKK terror.
I notice that for some reason Ashley's terrible portrayal by Leslie Howard has ruined the character so much that even people who later read the book still holds to the opinion that Ashley is a moronic doofus wimp even though the book clearly states his valor in war. Just go on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ discussion board of Gone With the Wind and you'll see rants about how Ashley was cowardly, Ashley is so selfish, etc.
Which I'm amazed because I wonder if they were reading the same book as I was.
What do you think?
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I kind of felt Ashley was depressed after the war. I think he just "gave up." I wouldn't say that makes him wimpy or cowardly. Just very human.
I often read Ashley after the war as someone who was just lost. He seemed vacant and a shell of a person. I could sympathize with his character. He fought a war he didn't believe in or want. He lost so many friends and his father. He lost his home, his land, his life style. He comes home to a wife that he loves but never felt he was in love with her. He can't even have sex with her for fear of having a child and killing her. He doesn't do manual labor well and I think part of that was that he was depressed. I think he was suffering mentally. Then Scarlett takes him in and he feels like less of a person and a burden. She bullies him into running a lumber yard and doing things there that aren't in his nature (like working convicts). And I think he just felt lost and depressed.
I kind of felt he was very real and raw the way he was. I felt bad for him. Scarlett's pursuit of him did not help matters either. He wanted her because he admired her. She was strong and "shoulders back" able to take on the world and he felt despair at the new world he was in. I think he wanted to be like that but deep down, he wasn't made to be callous in business and he was too kind to push for profits. That's not a weakness, it just makes him a decent human really. He didn't treat the convicts like slaves (or really worse than slaves), he saw them as human and he didn't make profits because he wasn't a shrewd business man. Not everyone is good at being a business man and I think Ashley was just not capable of treating people like Scarlett was. He had a lot of honor and pride and kindness.
I don't think he was a wimp. I think he was depressed and trying to live honorably. I think he showed a lot of resolve doing things he never wanted to do like fighting the war and working the lumber yard. I think he had his own strength, it just wasn't obvious. He refused to leave his honor behind to get out of prison and instead stayed there refusing to pretend to work the Yankees and then running (like Scarlett suggested and Rhett mocked).
I never saw him as weak. He just prioritizes things differently. He doesn't seek profits, but he seeks friends and charity (he gives money away in the book like Melanie treats others in their home). He is a good person who doesn't have, and never really had, the drive to be in charge of anything. He wanted a simple life with kindness and manners. And he lost it all with the war. I think he was depressed but still trying to live a life he could live with himself with.
I often read Ashley after the war as someone who was just lost. He seemed vacant and a shell of a person. I could sympathize with his character. He fought a war he didn't believe in or want. He lost so many friends and his father. He lost his home, his land, his life style. He comes home to a wife that he loves but never felt he was in love with her. He can't even have sex with her for fear of having a child and killing her. He doesn't do manual labor well and I think part of that was that he was depressed. I think he was suffering mentally. Then Scarlett takes him in and he feels like less of a person and a burden. She bullies him into running a lumber yard and doing things there that aren't in his nature (like working convicts). And I think he just felt lost and depressed.
I kind of felt he was very real and raw the way he was. I felt bad for him. Scarlett's pursuit of him did not help matters either. He wanted her because he admired her. She was strong and "shoulders back" able to take on the world and he felt despair at the new world he was in. I think he wanted to be like that but deep down, he wasn't made to be callous in business and he was too kind to push for profits. That's not a weakness, it just makes him a decent human really. He didn't treat the convicts like slaves (or really worse than slaves), he saw them as human and he didn't make profits because he wasn't a shrewd business man. Not everyone is good at being a business man and I think Ashley was just not capable of treating people like Scarlett was. He had a lot of honor and pride and kindness.
I don't think he was a wimp. I think he was depressed and trying to live honorably. I think he showed a lot of resolve doing things he never wanted to do like fighting the war and working the lumber yard. I think he had his own strength, it just wasn't obvious. He refused to leave his honor behind to get out of prison and instead stayed there refusing to pretend to work the Yankees and then running (like Scarlett suggested and Rhett mocked).
I never saw him as weak. He just prioritizes things differently. He doesn't seek profits, but he seeks friends and charity (he gives money away in the book like Melanie treats others in their home). He is a good person who doesn't have, and never really had, the drive to be in charge of anything. He wanted a simple life with kindness and manners. And he lost it all with the war. I think he was depressed but still trying to live a life he could live with himself with.
Leslie Howard hated Ashley Wilkes, and thought him to be a moronic Dufus, so, probably played him that way.
But, technically speaking, if he pined so hard for the old days, why didn’t he either Call-out Rhett, or tell Rhett he was willing to die, on the “field of Honour�? Why did Ashley “Hide behind Melanie’s Skirts� (As Rhett so bluntly put it.)
He was actually a bookish nerdy type, that Scarlett put Shining Armour on, even though it didn’t really fit. Which she recognized towards the end of the story. (As she was running through the fog, to Rhett)
Ashley, himself, tried to dissuade Scarlett’s hero-worship of him, by trying to explain that she would come to hate him when she realized who he really was. He could tell that he was a dreamer, and that Scarlett had some other image of him.
Ashley does some pretty heroic stuff, certainly. Earns medals in the war, helps the Klansmen, and gets shot during a trap-raid. But, really, he seems to mostly just drift along, with Melanie making big decisions, and him not fighting them.
So, would he deserve the title, “Wimp�? Not really, but maybe a little bit.
But, technically speaking, if he pined so hard for the old days, why didn’t he either Call-out Rhett, or tell Rhett he was willing to die, on the “field of Honour�? Why did Ashley “Hide behind Melanie’s Skirts� (As Rhett so bluntly put it.)
He was actually a bookish nerdy type, that Scarlett put Shining Armour on, even though it didn’t really fit. Which she recognized towards the end of the story. (As she was running through the fog, to Rhett)
Ashley, himself, tried to dissuade Scarlett’s hero-worship of him, by trying to explain that she would come to hate him when she realized who he really was. He could tell that he was a dreamer, and that Scarlett had some other image of him.
Ashley does some pretty heroic stuff, certainly. Earns medals in the war, helps the Klansmen, and gets shot during a trap-raid. But, really, he seems to mostly just drift along, with Melanie making big decisions, and him not fighting them.
So, would he deserve the title, “Wimp�? Not really, but maybe a little bit.
Sauron, I agree with your comments in the first post, and do not think of Ashley as a wimp. Maybe it helps that I read first, then saw the movie.
However, I do think he was a man unequal to the task set before him after the war. If there had been no war he would have lived his life on the plantation in a pleasant and stable way, just like many before him, had many children who thought him a sweet old dear.
There were many instances where he did what he believed to be the "honourable" thing even when it was very hard. Having Scarlett throw herself at him frequently, trying to make him break his wedding vows, would have been agonising. He went to war, despite being a pacifist, and joined the KKK even though he despised violence. There's a type of bravery and integrity there.
Of course, Scarlett was way too aggressive for him. She refused to see it, but the type of husband she needed was Rhett - strong and uncompromising, and willing to issue the discipline that her father never gave.
I think the saddest thing about Ashley was that he was fully aware of his shortcomings in the life he had been thrust into. He knew he needed to be more cutthroat, but just couldn't bring himself to change like that. That is why he ultimately refused Scarlett, and told her she would be miserable with him.
However, I do think he was a man unequal to the task set before him after the war. If there had been no war he would have lived his life on the plantation in a pleasant and stable way, just like many before him, had many children who thought him a sweet old dear.
There were many instances where he did what he believed to be the "honourable" thing even when it was very hard. Having Scarlett throw herself at him frequently, trying to make him break his wedding vows, would have been agonising. He went to war, despite being a pacifist, and joined the KKK even though he despised violence. There's a type of bravery and integrity there.
Of course, Scarlett was way too aggressive for him. She refused to see it, but the type of husband she needed was Rhett - strong and uncompromising, and willing to issue the discipline that her father never gave.
I think the saddest thing about Ashley was that he was fully aware of his shortcomings in the life he had been thrust into. He knew he needed to be more cutthroat, but just couldn't bring himself to change like that. That is why he ultimately refused Scarlett, and told her she would be miserable with him.
My 2 cents: The "movie Ashley" was portrayed as (1) loyal to his first love, and (2) basically a wimp (even though he was a soldier fighting in a war). But the "book Ashley" was also loyal to his first love. However he was tough as nails for surviving a military prison camp, walking a long, long way to get back home, working fiendishly to bring in the cotton crop, and working intelligently to run the business.
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