ŷ������

& we're off!

This is my first time reading this book & I'm reading an online copy at Open Library.

If posting spoilers in this thread, please use spoiler tags - we don't want to spoiler a first read for anyone! :)

A "sapling Dante" would be a slim boy, right?

I just started and I'm loving it. It's a re-read for me but I had forgotten how well Enid Bagnole writes.

The exact meaning of a 'sapling Dante' escapes me (it's rather a weird image) but I'm guessing you're right, Carol.

The scenes with Donald crack me up. And I love how the family--and Mi--analyze Donald's inner life.

This is one of my favorites: after Donald wets the bed in the night he spins this long, tall tale of being sick in the night. Banished once again to the kitchen by Mrs Brown he emerges eventually, seemingly contrite

"I'm sorry," called Donald in muffled tones through the door.

Mrs Brown opened the door.

"I'm sorry I was sick in the night," said Donald.

"Child'll make a lawyer," said Mr Brown

I got a copy at the library and am just starting; this is my first time reading it.

I'm off to get it off the shelf!!!

I am enjoying it but, man, that's a LOT of dialog. it's mostly dialog. does anyone know what accent we should be imagining?

It’s set in Sussex, England so I’d suppose a standard English accent?

Lesley wrote: "It’s set in Sussex, England so I’d suppose a standard English accent?" Probably not. Here's one example of a Sussex accent:

Hana wrote: "Lesley wrote: "It’s set in Sussex, England so I’d suppose a standard English accent?" Probably not. Here's one example of a Sussex accent: ..."

For more discussion of English accents (no such thing as ...) I . The true Sussex accent(s), like those of Kent, are probably dead or so watered down as to be indistinguishable, but would have existed when National Velvet was written, particularly among the more rural population (rather than those in Brighton).

The contrast between the dialogue and the description is immense. We're meant to see into who they are by what they say, of course, but there's more to it than that; Bagnold gives us the "extra" knowledge we need by her bits of interspersed words, especially Velvet's flights into fancy. From the start we see her as anxious and caring and horse-mad, but it's in the imaginings that we begin to see her wholly.

It's an unusual style, but it immerses us into that particular world in that particular time and makes us live in it.

Reading the first paragraph of Chapter Five where all the sisters are dreaming (Velvet and the golden greyhounds), it hit me that Bagnold is less The Narrator and more The Interpreter!

The Dante is referenced a couple more times, so I Googled to see what I could find - which was not much! There's a famous portrait of Dante Rossetti as a rather gorgeous young boy, long curls and all, but you'd think she would have used Rosetti, not Dante. There was one painting of Dante as a young man, not boy, and I didn't see the connection to a young girl at all. Sigh. Oh, for a really comprehensive classical education! 😁

@Karlyne very interesting post. I love the descriptions.

Hana wrote: "Lesley wrote: "It’s set in Sussex, England so I’d suppose a standard English accent?" Probably not. Here's one example of a Sussex accent: ..."

Gosh, it was quite a broad accent, and verging on west counties. As far as Velvet is concerned, I find I'm 'hearing' her with the more proper English accent as I recall Elizabeth Taylor spoke in the movie.

Karlyne wrote: "Reading the first paragraph of Chapter Five where all the sisters are dreaming (Velvet and the golden greyhounds), it hit me that Bagnold is less The Narrator and more The Interpreter!"

I have to agree, Karlyne. I was a bit taken aback at the start of the book until I became used to this way of telling the story. It is good to have Bagnold interpreting!

Karlyne wrote: "The Dante is referenced a couple more times, so I Googled to see what I could find - which was not much! There's a famous portrait of Dante Rossetti as a rather gorgeous young boy, long curls and a..."

I too Googled Dante, and like yourself, didn't find anything that was obvious as to why that description was used by Bagnold. The only other reference to Dante is to the digital media net-working which came quite sometime after the book. ;)

I have never seen the movie and am wondering how much it would affect my reading if I had.

Jackie wrote: "I have never seen the movie and am wondering how much it would affect my reading if I had."

I've never seen the movie either.

I'm up to Chapter 5. I like all the dialogue - I generally do as it helps to establish character.

It was about 60 years ago I saw it when Josie, Tess, Libby and I (school friends) caught the “picture bus�� to the Saturday afternoon session at Naenae Regent Cinema. I remember that so well, just as I can hear Elizabeth Taylor’s voice! I don’t recall anything else other than the outline of the story!

The movie is actually very well cast (except for Elizabeth Taylor's beauty, which she couldn't help) and is a lovely homage to childhood (and horses), but, as is usual, it doesn't have the depth of the book. And although the book is written about children, it is not really a children's book. The movie comes closer to the "classic children's" genre, I think.

And in spite of Elizabeth Taylor's beauty, she does a brilliant job of portraying Velvet's single-minded luminosity.

Karlyne wrote: "And in spite of Elizabeth Taylor's beauty, she does a brilliant job of portraying Velvet's single-minded luminosity."

that makes me want to see the movie

I am through chapter 9 and so ready for the second half.

I am enjoying it, but it seems like one of those books I will like more on re-reading: it's "too much" to digest the first time through, if you will.
there are so many things I don't understand about Velvet's life - like how much debt is she in?

but I am truly enjoying how her fantasies of horses have turned into reality and looking forward to what I know is coming (view spoiler)[ Mi helps her actually run - and maybe win? - the Grand National against all odds (hide spoiler)]

I don’t know how many times I’ve read this book, but I seem to get something different out of it every time. When I was a horse-crazy little girl, it was Velvet’s kinship with The Pie. This time it’s a greater appreciation of everything Sir Pericles is teaching her. And of course the beautiful writing. (The land described as “a starlit herd of divine pigs�� is lovely.)

Karlyne, your idea of Bagnold as Interpreter rather than Narrator is perfect.

One thing never changes for me, though—I can’t stand Donald. He seems like a little brat to me, whether in the book, the movie, or the TV show. His repulsive “spit bottle �� is just the last straw.

Peggy wrote: "I don’t know how many times I’ve read this book, but I seem to get something different out of it every time. When I was a horse-crazy little girl, it was Velvet’s kinship with The Pie. This time it..."

Donald makes me laugh - in the book! But in real life there would be a lot of character flaws I'd be dealing with...

Karlyne wrote: "Peggy wrote: "I don’t know how many times I’ve read this book, but I seem to get something different out of it every time. When I was a horse-crazy little girl, it was Velvet’s kinship with The Pie..."

How old is Donald supposed to be?

Four!

Karlyne wrote: "Four!"

Thanks, I must have missed that. I've been puzzled because often his behaviour is much younger than his conversation indicates.

Peggy wrote: "I don’t know how many times I’ve read this book, but I seem to get something different out of it every time. When I was a horse-crazy little girl, it was Velvet’s kinship with The Pie. This time it..." That was me as well, Peggy, although I'm more amused with Donald than repelled.

I don't like Donald either and am amazed at how patient everyone is with him. but I suppose as the youngest, and especially as the only boy, that makes sense.
the spit bottle is disgusting!

To be honest I wasn't enjoying this book. I think it has been very slow to get going. But the last three chapters were great & I am looking forward to the second half.

In the movie, they changed it to an insect bottle. Maybe the spit bottle was deemed too disgusting for movie audiences by the filmmakers/MGM executives. 😊

Jackie wrote: "I don't like Donald either and am amazed at how patient everyone is with him. but I suppose as the youngest, and especially as the only boy, that makes sense.
the spit bottle is disgusting!"

An insect jar! LOL When I was only a little bit older than Donald I became fascinated with butterflies. My family bought me a butterfly net and collecting kit which, believe it or not, in the 1950s USA included ether in a can that I can still remember had a sort of domed metal top. The ether was poured onto cotton balls and inserted into a glass jar to quickly kill the collectable insect.

As my mother recalled it, I would stalk monarchs and yellow swallowtails like the most savage of hunters and when I caught them I would call to my sister (who rode shotgun) "Quick, Meg! The Killing Jar!"

I promise all of you that I soon moved on to peaceable hobbies like bird watching and have never since willfully killed a butterfly but I still remember this family tale as a cautionary note that dark forces lurk within even (eventually) gentle souls.

So anyway, it's probably that little remnant of my darker side that finds a certain delight in Donald :D

Hana wrote: "An insect jar! LOL When I was only a little bit older than Donald I became fascinated with butterflies. My family bought me a butterfly net and collecting kit which, believe it or not, in the 1950s..."

Have you read A Girl of the Limberlost?

No--it looks like a good one.

Peggy wrote: "Hana wrote: "An insect jar! LOL When I was only a little bit older than Donald I became fascinated with butterflies. My family bought me a butterfly net and collecting kit which, believe it or not,..."

I have. I think that was my Mom's favorite book ever.

Hana! Gene Stratton Porter is simply luscious! Her prose is incredibly vivid; she was a very well-known naturalist, and what she didn't know about moths and butterflies isn't worth knowing. Her human characters can get a bit full- blown and sentimental, but I still love her!

I've had Girl of the Limberlost on my kindle almost as long as I've had it. I saw somewhere, GR I think, that it is number two. Should I read number one first, or isn't it really a series?

Lesley wrote: "I've had Girl of the Limberlost on my kindle almost as long as I've had it. I saw somewhere, GR I think, that it is number two. Should I read number one first, or isn't it really a series?"

I think it's supposed to be a sequel to Freckles, but I read A Girl of the Limberlost first with no problems.

Hana wrote: "No--it looks like a good one."

It's one of my all-time favorite books. (And Jackie, it was one of my mom's favorites too.)

Peggy wrote: "Lesley wrote: "I've had Girl of the Limberlost on my kindle almost as long as I've had it. I saw somewhere, GR I think, that it is number two. Should I read number one first, or isn't it really a s..."

Okay. Thanks.

I think Freckles is mentioned in Girl of the Limberlost and maybe actually shows up in a very minor way, but except for both being set in the Limberlost, they're stand alones. I think Girl is due for a re-read now that I've been reminded! It always makes me sad, though, that I never learned to play violin. Sigh.