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Loving
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Loving - Green (10/19 BOTM)
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2. What is the moral structure of the protagonist/characters.
3. What are her/his dominant traits or desires? How did they originate?
4. What does the author wish us to think and feel about what happens to the protagonist.
5. Any comments about narrative manner?
6. Quotes
7. Did you easily engage with the novel/characters or was it a struggle.
8. Have you read other books by Henry Green? If so, how did this compare? If this is your first book by the author, do you look forward to reading more books by him?
9. Please enter your reviews in the 1001 reviews folder. Thanks.
Looks like I am the first one to finish this and I have to add another question so here goes:
10) What did you make of that ending?
10) What did you make of that ending?
1. English household in Ireland servants and masters living under the threat of the war and the IRA.
2. There doesn't really appear to be one nor is there a moral message to the story overall.
3. Main character would be Raunce. Raunce is an ambitious man is his 40s (I think) who has just inherited the post of butler he is seeking to supplement his income by black mailing the masters and their friends and by submitting false accounting records, he is also a womaniser.
4. I don't think there is any alternative motive to the writing other than to tell a straightforward story.
5. I found it confusing to start with as we would change between character sets with no warning. Once I got used to who was who the reading became easier.
6. Library book so I didn't mark anything but nor can I remember anything jumping out at me.
7. I didn't find it particularly engaging but it wasn't a struggle to read either is was a meh kind of book.
8. First book by this author and I have both the other books we need to read for the list, I am not eager to read them nor am I dreading picking them up.
10. The ending for me was so rushed it was untrue there was no real build up and I would have liked more detail other than they lived happily ever after.
2. There doesn't really appear to be one nor is there a moral message to the story overall.
3. Main character would be Raunce. Raunce is an ambitious man is his 40s (I think) who has just inherited the post of butler he is seeking to supplement his income by black mailing the masters and their friends and by submitting false accounting records, he is also a womaniser.
4. I don't think there is any alternative motive to the writing other than to tell a straightforward story.
5. I found it confusing to start with as we would change between character sets with no warning. Once I got used to who was who the reading became easier.
6. Library book so I didn't mark anything but nor can I remember anything jumping out at me.
7. I didn't find it particularly engaging but it wasn't a struggle to read either is was a meh kind of book.
8. First book by this author and I have both the other books we need to read for the list, I am not eager to read them nor am I dreading picking them up.
10. The ending for me was so rushed it was untrue there was no real build up and I would have liked more detail other than they lived happily ever after.
1. Who and what is this book about. Protagonist, age, era, locale, social class, family, occupation. The book is an ensemble of a group of working class servants to a English household that is residing in their inherited Irish lands. The mother and the daughter in law of the English household also play their part but the book centers on the "downstairs" personnel rather than the owners. The time is during the era of the London bombings during WWII and the rise of the IRA. Plus the fact that they are all English, except one, living in both a foreign land and a neutral country that may let the Germans in, gives a anxious background to the largely small domestic events of the book.
2. What is the moral structure of the protagonist/characters.
The overriding theme to the book is the nature of real people and their interaction, rumors, miscommunications, misunderstanding, and squabbles. The fact that it is set against WWII, yet has almost nothing to do with WWII is a way of sharing how a major global event filters down and is interpreted by those far afield. The servants all walk a line of having high integrity and yet all flirt with crossing and getting a bit of their own by cheating their masters or exploiting a situation. However, they never stray far. The English daughter in law, on the other hand, has a husband fighting in the war while she is having an affair.
3. What are her/his dominant traits or desires? How did they originate?
The footman, Raunce (later Mr. Raunce) has promoted himself to butler on the death of the previous butler. This would not have normally occurred but due to the extreme man power shortage during the war he pulled it off and he sets out to make his fortune by leveraging his insider knowledge of how things work at the manor. He is working "the books" and hoping to get higher tips for keeping silent on transgressions of the household. He originally simply wants the title and the "books" of the previous butler and the added attention of the two "girls", or domestic servants. He later falls in love with one of them.
4. What does the author wish us to think and feel about what happens to the protagonist.
The author is focused on the ensemble, not on one protagonist. Together they create a world in which they attempt to build a life out of the mundane and narrow confines of one manor house. The Irish natives are largely off limits and the children that live in the great house are full of mischief. The author cares about these people and that caring comes across even if there is nothing in particular that they do to make them notable.
5. Any comments about narrative manner?
Almost the whole book is written in dialogue. There is a scene in which two people, Ms. Butler and the nanny, have a long conversation about two totally different topics without either one recognizing that they are talking about two different things. There is a scene in which the mistress of the house talks with the cook to attempt to get to the bottom of a domestic mystery and the cook misunderstands and they also end up have a parallel rather than coupled dialogue. There are scenes in which they all start lisping. The only Irish character can only be understood, due to his mumbling and Irish accent, by one other character in the book so he has to be translated. We are only on occasional given brief hints of internal dialogue, something they said only to themselves rather than out loud, but we are not given deep insight into anyone except through their verbal pronouncements.
6. Quotes
As Book mentioned, it is all dialogue so nothing jumps out as a quote.
7. Did you easily engage with the novel/characters or was it a struggle.
Yes, I easily connected with the characters and found them quite foreign and yet quite recognizable also. The petty fights, the love stories, the anxiety regarding their place and the war, all seemed less than dramatic but somehow engaging.
8. Have you read other books by Henry Green? If so, how did this compare? If this is your first book by the author, do you look forward to reading more books by him?
This is my first and I really enjoyed it. However, I don't necessarily look forward to others although I believe this may be one of the most austere of his books.
9. Please enter your reviews in the 1001 reviews folder. Thanks.
10. I liked the ending. The book opens with Once upon....and ends more or less with the same reference to a fairy tale. Really, he simply ended the book. You don't truly believe in that ending. However, I believe it was the author's way of saying: they continued much as they had been going on, being real people with complicated desires and small complaints living their life the best they could.
@Gail I love the way you love all the things I hated it is great getting a different perspective on things.
Mod
Book so far I am with you on this one. There are so many characters and I am having trouble keeping track of who's who. The book starts with a death, am I supposed to feel sad even though the new guy moved in before the sheets were cold? This is quite a different book but I am just getting started.
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I was thinking of making a character list but I don't see it as a good sign of a book that I need a cheat sheet.
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The book is about the servants of Mrs. Tennant. I think the protagonist is Charley Raunce but there were a host of characters. The age of the characters seem to span the spectrum between the kids and the dead Mr. Eldon. The locale is Ireland.
2. What is the moral structure of the protagonist/characters.
The servants were a product of their environment, working closely with others for extended periods of time. It was a soap opera of gossiping about one another, back stabbing, etc. Then there is the whole complexity of servant vs owner and Irish vs English.
3. What are her/his dominant traits or desires? How did they originate?
4. What does the author wish us to think and feel about what happens to the protagonist.
I wasn't sure how to feel about the characters. I didn't really connect with any of them.
7. Did you easily engage with the novel/characters or was it a struggle.
I struggled to connect with these characters.
8. Have you read other books by Henry Green? If so, how did this compare? If this is your first book by the author, do you look forward to reading more books by him?
I am not looking forward to finishing this trilogy.
10. I thought the story came full circle. The ending sentence was a little fairy tale like. I think the ending was commentary on the servants point of view.
1. Who and what is this book about. Protagonist, age, era, locale, social class, family, occupation.The book centers around an ensemble cast of characters -- working class servants in an English household living in Ireland.
We spend some time getting to know the women of the English household, but the focus is on the servants. This is in the era of WW2, during the time London is being bombed and the IRA is gettin a footing. The book has some tension thanks to the fears of the English that the Irish may allow the Germans in.
2. What is the moral structure of the protagonist/characters.
The book is about communication in all its forms, but particularly about gossip, misunderstanding, quarrels... I loved the fact that the war affected everything in the lives of these people but that the book isnt actually about war.
I do wish I understood the Irish vs English storyline a bit more. My knowledge of this is minimal.
3. What are her/his dominant traits or desires? How did they originate?
The main character is Raunce, a footman. He is ambitious and has just advnced to butler. He is also blackmailing his bosses and their friends. He is not a very good person..
4. What does the author wish us to think and feel about what happens to the protagonist.
I am a character driven story reader and prefer flawed characters, however I also need to find them at least somewhat likable or find that I have empathy for them. I didnt really connect to any of them in this book.
7. Did you easily engage with the novel/characters or was it a struggle.
I struggled... (see answer to number 6)
8. Have you read other books by Henry Green? If so, how did this compare? If this is your first book by the author, do you look forward to reading more books by him?
I havent read anything by Green... not sure I am excited about doing so.
10. What did you make of that ending?
I thought the story came full circle. And like everyone else I thought it mirrored the beginning well, much like a fairy tale. However, I still didn't love the book as a whole.
1. Who and what is this book about. Protagonist, age, era, locale, social class, family, occupation.The book behind the scenes of an rural estate owned by a wealthy Anglo-Irish family. It focuses on the hired help, rather than on the family. It takes place in Ireland during WWII.
2. What is the moral structure of the protagonist/characters.
The character's all seem flawed and most have varying degrees of moral lapses. The rather shifty main character acquires and conducts his job through less than honest means. The daughter-in-law of the matriarch of the family has an extramarital affair that is discovered by the servants.
3. What are her/his dominant traits or desires? How did they originate?
I assume we are talking about Raunce? He learns that his predecessor had been cheating his employer and decides to follow suit. He plans to get ahead at the expense of others.
4. What does the author wish us to think and feel about what happens to the protagonist.
I think the author wanted the reader to notice the daily lives of the other occupants other than the aristocracy in an aristocratic household.
5. Any comments about narrative manner?
There was a lot of dialogue between the characters. It seemed that even the non-dialogue narration was often told in the speech patterns of the servants.
7. Did you easily engage with the novel/characters or was it a struggle.
I engaged with them at times. I didn't find it a struggle, but I did not find the story overly engaging, either.
8. Have you read other books by Henry Green? If so, how did this compare? If this is your first book by the author, do you look forward to reading more books by him?
I read Blindness, which I liked much more. I am surprised to learn that this is his most famous work, as there are so many of his books on the list.
Mod
2. What is the moral structure of the protagonist/characters. The moral structure is interesting because we have butlers and cooks padding the books to increase their own incomes and we have the loss of reing and accusations of theft rather than real theft that is occurring. We have the dehumanized quality of the servants verses the employers and the women verses the men.
3. What are her/his dominant traits or desires? How did they originate? Charley's traits are interesting. He doesn't morn Eldon's death but sees it as opportunity to step up in the servant class structure. We have Charley who is an older man chasing after the younger servant girls and thinking of marriage but mostly he is trying to avoid military service until he is shamed into it by Albert "his boy" and his mother who views his stay in neutral country as being "chicken".
4. What does the author wish us to think and feel about what happens to the protagonist. I am not sure what the author is wishing but I think it is a interesting subject. Is Charley caught between changing times. He really is almost too old for military service, yet he is still seeking mother's approval. He courts Edith, a girl probably too young for him. He lies and changes stories frequently. He cheats his employer. He is totally unreliable and obviously so. He also seems to growing more and more unhealthy while Edith is strong and young
5. Any comments about narrative manner? The narrative is broken and will jump from one set of characters to the next without warning and to different time and place.
6. Quotes:
"It's only after they've lived a few years longer that they'll come to realize there's worse than sleeping alone in your own bed, with a fresh joint down in the larder for dinner every day."
"There's no two ways about it. Either you can trust people or you can't and if you can't then they're distrasteful to live with." (This is being said to Mrs. Jack about the servants, but Mrs. Jack has her own deceit) and "Of course he pretended to know nothing as the servants always do," and at this Mrs Jack winced, "but I can't stand lies. D'you know what he wanted me to believe?"
7. Did you easily engage with the novel/characters or was it a struggle. I easily engaged. I liked the book.
8. Have you read other books by Henry Green? If so, how did this compare? If this is your first book by the author, do you look forward to reading more books by him? yes, I have read Living and Blindness.
9. Please enter your reviews in the 1001 reviews folder. Thanks. see review;
I am a fan of Henry Green's writing and I really loved this book! Loved Loving! This story is set in Ireland which is neutral at this time of the war with Germany. The servants in the castle of Mrs Tennant (a widow) and her daughter-in-law Violet or Mrs Jack. Jack, the son, is in the military. The intro in my book, by Roxana Robinson, refers to the book as a "sexy book" and yes their is love affairs here and there and innuendoes of love between pigeons, and a hint of lesbian love all without anything actually appearing on the page! Unlike more modern novels to their shame. On the surface the story is of servants working in this very grand castle full of the riches deserving a museum and the changes the war is bringing to the known life of these people and the class structure. It is also about trust and distrust among the servants and the masters, and between the lovers and family members. The book is the 5th book by the author who wrote under a pseudonym. Loving was published in 1945, near the end of the war and is mostly comedic but not underneath the layers.
There are pigeons and peacocks in this story. Three children (two girls of Violet's or Mrs. Jack and the cook's nephew brought over to avoid dangers of war). There is the missing sapphire ring, a dead peacock, a missing waterglass and eggs.
Servant include, the butler just died and the one stepping into his shoes and "books". The cook who likes a bit of gin, The housekeeper and her girls, the nanny who is old and obviously a Pollyanna. The lamplighter who can't speak clear English and loves the peacocks.
The style of this novel is perhaps challenging to some. I did not find it so. I loved the opening as if we are being introduced to a fairly tale. "Once upon a day an old butler called Eldon lay dying..... and the end; ...and lived happily ever after.
1. It’s about the “downstairs� staff of an Irish household in the early 1900s, against the backdrop of WWII and the Irish revolution. 2. It’s kind of an amoral book in that gossip and scheming makes up a lot of it: I got the vibe that this kind of reflects the chaos of the greater political climate as well. Raunce, the kind of main character, is immersed in this.
3. His dominant traits seem to be professional climbing initially, which he secures in the man power vacuum of the war, but next shifts to falling in love with one of the servant girls, hence the title.
4. I got the impression that we are supposed to be slightly invested in the fates of all of the ensemble, as the book pays attention to framing how all the people in the book are part of the framework of the world the live in, and all have internal lives and desires.
5. I found it hard to speed read and I kept falling in and out of the narrative threads with the perspective changes if I recall correctly.
6. “He reckons the IRA would see to the Jerries,� Kate translated.
‘Holy smoke but he’ll be getting me annoyed in a minute. First he says there aren’t none then ‘e pretends they can sort out a panzer division. What with? Bows and arrows?�
Lol, I liked sections like this, which I feel are characteristic of the banter in the book.
7. See #5: It didn’t massively resonate with me and I was struggling here to recall the specifics of it a few years later.
8. I read this book previously in about 2016, it was in a combined book with Living and Party Going. I read the whole thing through in a few days if I remember correctly, and none of the books left a massive impression on me. I thought they were fine, but unremarkable. I do remember trying to read this one over a trashy basement party I didn’t want to be at, which is semi appropriate given the book lol.
I still am going to read Blindness and Back because they are on the list: I’m not agonizing over it but not super stoked about them either. I think I’ll feel satisfied with the amount of his work I’ve read after the list.
TIME 100 Best English-language Novels from 1923 to 2005
was the pen name of Henry Vincent Yorke (29 October 1905 � 13 December 1973), an English author best remembered for the novels Party Going, Living and Loving. He published a total of nine novels between 1926 and 1952. His novels are works of modernist literature.
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