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The Spiritual Combat
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The Spiritual Combat (Dec. 2019) > 4. On carnal delights

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Manuel Alfonseca | 2260 comments Mod
In the first chapters I noticed a few phrases which seemed to point in the same direction as other ascetic writers, such as Nieremberg, who essentially tell the reader: "If you like it, abstain from it, for that's what God wants."

I find this kind of advice dissimilar to what some saints did, such as St. John Paul II, who apparently liked deserts and did not abstain from them, at least always.

This quote in chapter 23 could be a summary of this view: If the beauty of a creature fascinates you... fly at once from the allurement... to render all carnal delights odious to you.

However, perhaps I was mistaken, for in the same chapter he says: When any good thought arises in your heart, turn at once to God, and acknowledge that it comes from Him, and give thanks to Him for it.

If the term "good thought" is extended to mean "whatever I find good" I'd say this means that we are not advised to abstain from everything we like, but accept it by looking at it as a gift of God.

In chapter 22 Scupoli says: Now learn how to use sensible objects as reminders of the Incarnate Word, by reflecting on the most Holy Mysteries of His Life and Passion... All things in the universe may serve to this end, if, as I said before, you first behold God in them as the Sole First Cause, Who has given them all their being, beauty, and excellence... The sight of a hovel may recall to our memory the stable and manger of our Lord. Rain may remind us of that rain of Divine Blood which watered the ground, falling from His Sacred Body in the Garden... Other things may be used in a similar manner. Whenever you taste wine, or other drink, think of the vinegar and gall which was given to your Lord...

I take this to mean that we can adapt our natural pleasures to conform to a religious view of the world without having to forgo them.

What do you think about this?


message 2: by Madeleine (new)

Madeleine Myers | 302 comments I think it's a narrow view. For most of us who are not called to be ascetic or mystics, our spirituality must include gratitude for the blessings we are given as well as those we can give to others, because both material as well as spiritual blessings--beauty and beautiful things, music, good food, etc. are gifts of God and reasons to praise Him. Maybe for the mystics the phrase "a sacrifice of praise" might be in order??? Bishop Barron believes that the most effective way to attract people to the faith is through the beauty of our Church and its physical offerings. Even Jesus enjoyed good food and drink, and talked about the unimaginable things that God has prepared for those who love him., including mansions...


message 3: by Mariangel (last edited Dec 06, 2019 03:28PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mariangel | 696 comments When I read this chapter, I didn't think he meant that we are supposed to abstain from things that please us.

"If the beauty of a creature fascinates you... fly at once from the allurement... to render all carnal delights odious to you."

I took this sentence as a warning to not put all our hopes in creatures, and not to let the fascination lead to sin. This seemed to me confirmed by the following explanation about how to use that fascination as a way to turn the mind and soul towards God. I thought this is a great exercise.


Fonch | 2266 comments This is one of the drawbacks that i have found in the book. Scupoli looks obssessed with all give pleasure is evil. He reminded me a bit to the puritan and the budhism the human being must not have passions and wishses and the puritans i was thinking in a story of the fictional character of Richmal Compton William Brown, when her puritan aunt visiting to his family and she thinks that the pleasures and enjoy are sins at finally she went to the Fair and she enjoyed as a kid.One thing are the sinful pleasures and others the Healthy pleasures and to enjoy. God for instance in the Bible does not get angry with the King David when he did stupid things. God is happy that David enjoys and was happy believing, obeying and loving God. The life is excesively hard to do much harder eliminating the small pleasures. Part of the los of credit of the calvinism is because converted an inhuman religión who demands excesive charges to the believers and for this reason the people bet for the agnosticism and atheism as a reaction against this rigorism.
The order of Teatinos perhaps was excesively demanding one of his members a parto of Cayetano Thiene was Gian Pietro Carafa, when he became a pope he excomunicated to Charles V and his son Philip II and a big part of the cardinals were under suspect of heresy, meanwhile he was very merciful with the heretic Elizabeth I. But he was very cruel with Morone, Hypolite Farnese, Gregory Pole and others cardinals.
The foreword that i read says that Scupoli was in prison accused by heresy by the Order of Teatine it was a lie inspired by an enemy but he was condemened by his own order. This thing made me think that is this order is too hard, and severe.


Fergus, Weaver of Autistic Webs | 134 comments I really like Mariange’s comment. I have seen that subtle point proven in my own life, and think it is well worth consideration.


message 6: by John (new) - added it

John Seymour | 2268 comments Mod
Mariangel wrote: "When I read this chapter, I didn't think he meant that we are supposed to abstain from things that please us.

"If the beauty of a creature fascinates you... fly at once from the allurement... to ..."


I had originally understood Scupoli in the same way as Manuel and Madeleine, but this is perhaps a closer reading. It may be that by "fascination" Scupoli is referring not merely to enjoyment appreciation of the good things that God has created, but of a deeper connection, leading to attachment and ultimately to idolatry, In this case, of course, Scupoli is right.

But I think there are other places where he has suggested a deeper suspicion of enjoyment of the blessings of creation. I would have to search for those.


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