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"Draconian laws" and "Police State laws" have been admitted by authorities (verbatim, their words not mine). But they say these extreme measures are needed for the human race's survival.

Now I am not saying they are necessarily wrong about this as I am confused by this whole scenario we are in and have no fixed beliefs about ANYTHING (stating that clearly upfront in case anyone misinterprets)

But...

I do think anytime such extreme laws and measures are imposed on us, we as citizens have to question things JUST IN CASE something nefarious is going on here. So this thread is simply to play Devil's Advocate against the official narrative to do due diligence.

Comprende?

Some worrying concerns raised by whistleblower and author (and member of this group) Sibel Edmonds:

CoronaVirus- A Call to Action!

I hate to a admit it, but I’ve been uneasy about this too.

Luke wrote: "I hate to a admit it, but I’ve been uneasy about this too."

my thinking is even if you remove all conspiratorial thought, and just study history, then you'll find that governments do not generally relinquish additional powers after they get used to them. e.g. After 9/11 the Patriot Act and all those special spying on citizens laws are all, or mostly all, still in place.

So regardless if there has been pre-planning, or whether it has been powerful elites looking to seize an opportunity that's arisen organically, or even regardless of whether everyone in power is acting purely on behalf of the common people with no vested interests, the awkward point is...democracy has been suspended!

So the only question in my mind, is...
Temporarily?
Or permanently?

Kodai wrote: "Yes.
The protocols and procedures being used for the Wuhan Virus are very similar to those recommended in US Army FM 3-3 Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical warfare.
Makes me lean towards the escaped..."

Interesting observation or insight.

13 Reasons To Fear The Coming COVID World Order:

1. DE-FACTO MARTIAL LAW�
There’s no other way to describe both the “recommended� and mandatory quarantines that many in the world are experiencing than to call them what they are, a state of de-facto martial law, which isn’t being formally declared in order to not provoke any more panic than there already is.

2. …IS THE “NEW NORMAL�

Now that de-facto martial law of a seemingly indefinite period has been accepted by the people (whether willingly or begrudgingly), it’ll probably become the “new normal� and be implemented countless times in the future, be it as an “overabundance of caution� in the event of another outbreak or under any other pretext.

3. SOCIAL MEDIA CENSORSHIP WILL INTENSIFY
“Big Brother� is already here, but he’s going to become a bigger bully than ever before by intensifying his censorship of people’s social media posts on the basis that they’re “socially irresponsible� (e.g. questioning the seriousness of this disease), after which the “politically incorrect� net will widen to encompass other topics too.

4. TRAVEL WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN
Domestic and international travel will never be the same again, with internal restrictions on movement likely becoming commonplace and most foreign guests being required to self-quarantine for a period of time except in special circumstances, thus all but killing the global tourism industry.

5. BORDER CONTROL WILL BECOME MORE ROBUST
Gone are the days of so-called “open borders� where anyone can freely move between jurisdictions at will (whether legally or otherwise), with more stringent controls being put into place to protect the local population from outsiders (including their own compatriots from elsewhere in the country).

6. MANDATORY VACCINES ARE COMING
For whatever one thinks about vaccines, there’s probably no way to stop them from becoming mandatory after the COVID-19 pandemic, with it being predicted that people will have to prove that they’ve been vaccinated in order to do anything at all such as study, work, travel, and receive government benefits.

7. REMOTE LEARNING & WORKING WILL INCREASE
With so many people stuck at home and unable to leave except to purchase essential goods in most cases, it’s predictable that remote learning and working (the latter which will of course be for those whose jobs allow them to do so) will pick up in the coming future as society gets used to this way of doing things.

8. 5G IS INEVITABLE
The massive surge of online traffic from folks who are learning, working, or simply entertaining themselves online will necessitate the rapid roll-out of 5G technology despite what some people suspect are its serious health concerns.

9. SOCIETY DEPENDS ON JUST A FEW JOBS TO FUNCTION
The “new normal� of de-facto martial law has made many people realize that society really just depends on a few jobs in order to continue functioning at the bare minimum, with these being techies, grocery store and pharmacy employees, bank clerks, healthcare professionals, food service workers, farmers, and truckers.

10. NATIONALIZATION MIGHT BE IMMINENT
For better or for worse, governments across the world might go on a nationalization spree in order to take control of what they regard as “essential industries� (though whether some of them truly are or not is another story), which could lead to the informal imposition of either socialist or fascist economic models.

11. “UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME�
Given the scale and scope of the global economic collapse that was catalyzed by the world’s uncoordinated response to COVID-19, it’s foreseeable that governments will unveil what’s been described as a “universal basic income� in order to ensure that their people can continue to at least purchase basic goods and services.

12. MANDATORY MEDICAL TRAINING IN EXCHANGE FOR GOVERNMENT BENEFITS
Medical training is arguably more important than military service nowadays, so the state will probably make it mandatory in schools from here on out and for anyone who wants to receive government benefits, thereby enabling the government to draft them in the future whenever there’s a dearth of healthcare professionals.

13. SAY GOODBYE TO CASH
The cashless society is coming, whether justified by the (real, false, or exaggerated) fear that lethal viruses can be spread by paper currency or as the government’s preferred method of dispersing its “universal basic income�, meaning that the authorities can cut folks off from their funds at any time that they want to.

* * *

There’s no guarantee that everything that was described above will come to pass, but there’s certainly a high likelihood that at least some of it will transpire with time, though it’ll remain to be seen how sustainable these socio-economic and political changes are and whether or not they can ever be reversed.

Dr Naomi Wolf
@naomirwolf
·
14h
Half a million people applied for postal votes Queensland Australia in advance of elections during pandemic and say they did not receive them. Real pandemic is also used as an excuse to dilute, limit, strip power from, democracies everywhere.

Jeff Bezos sold $3.4bn of Amazon stock just before Covid-19 collapse
As trillions of dollars were wiped off stock markets some of the world’s richest got lucky

The Greatest Depression

corbettreport
368K subscribers

The Age of Terror was inaugurated with a series of controlled demolitions in New York City on September 11, 2001. Now the world is being led into the Age of Biological Terror with a controlled demolition of the economy that is already causing unprecedented carnage across markets and around the globe. As the dust settles on this demolition, an entirely new economy is ready to be erected in its place: one in which no citizen will be out of the sight of the all-seeing government. This week on The Corbett Report we examine the details of this collapse and why the bankster class is seeking to destroy the financial Ponzi scheme that they themselves created.

Thank you for the link!

Snowden warns: The surveillance states we’re creating now will outlast the coronavirus
Temporary security measures can soon become permanent

Zullay wrote: "Thank you for the link!"

No probs.

There's supposed to be a Cold War with China and Russia, as the one from '47 never really ended. It's still going on, in a sense there's no way it shouldn't. I'm not saying the COVID-19 virus is a specific weapon that was an act of aggression from them, as it could have been according to the official news releases. It should last as long as SARS but it might not, and this could be the end of the world as we know it, not by asteroid or cometary impact, resource depletion, or nuclear war, but germ warfare, which has always been a reason for scare, and worth panicking over. The surveillance state is unnecessary and not required in a utopian society.

The Cold War, of US and USSR, was from 1947 � 1991. The state was Russia after. Some say it never ended but there's been no official declaration of it still going on, a Cold War II, or a WWIII.

I recognise the dangers of giving governments too many powers as you are correct in that they are always reluctant to give them up.
But I really can't see how most governments could have avoided claiming them. I live in the UK and at first the government just suggested people avoid gatherings, pubs and eating places.
But a large number of the community ignored this until the Government ordered them closed.
I think my government have made huge mistakes in handling this crisis and I don't look at them with rose tinted glasses. But I think they need the new powers at this point and I believe they would much rather have not taken them. I am also reasonably confident that they will give them up when they can.

Sophia wrote: "I think they need the new powers at this point and I believe they would much rather have not taken them...."

That could be the evil genius in the whole plan (if planned) in that we become the ones requesting our own jail sentence.

Or... If this is unplanned then it's just a repeat of many of the measures that were put in place over a century ago for the 1918 Spanish Flu.

Then again tho, historically speaking governments do not have a good track record at relinquishing additional powers once granted.

Time will tell, but put me down as skeptical and highly concerned about the police state we are in right now.

Also, the experts are divided on how severe or fatal this virus actually is and what we should be doing about it...

RONA Updates: Experts Disagree, Diving Into The Numbers

I am concerned about the police being given powers but we have to realistic. At this moment in time they are probably needed. The experts might be divided but for 3 days running the death total in the UK was over 600 each day.
I think that is the bottom line at this time.

Say no to house arrest

Nigel Farage
60.7K subscribers
Nigel’s latest Coronavirus update.

Didn't expect to like this but I agreed with most of it. The situation with those two dog walkers was ridiculous especially with thousands coming in untested at airports. This happened to me when I flew back from Thailand on the 21st of march. Zero testing.
But the problem is that, while most will act responsibly, a lot won't.

James wrote: ""Draconian laws" and "Police State laws" have been admitted by authorities (verbatim, their words not mine). But they say these extreme measures are needed for the human race's survival.

Now I am ..."

Oui, James (et al--) -
Been reading/thinking about all your words, but, 1st

Friends, time to clean the pallets-
Lick only the lemon, no more armageddon.

More later





-

Heather wrote: "Oui, James (et al--) -
Been reading/thinking about all your words, but, 1st

Friends, time to clean the pallets-..."

Hey Heather,

Thanks for your comment.

My thinking is anytime Democracy is being curtailed, there is always a discussion to be had and that we must have...So I don't agree with just limiting the discussion to healthcare only - not saying you're trying to do this, but I mean others are attempting to narrow the perimeters of discussion.

Now if it turns out that the world in terms of human rights/freedoms returns to exactly as before (after we eventually get freed from lockdown later this year or whenever), then all we have lost is a little bit of time doing "due diligence" as citizens. In my assessment, history doesn't bode well for nations whose citizens trust too much and don't check for anything nefarious being done to them...

None of all that is to say we shouldn't also be doing all we can on the health situation.

J

Snowden Warns Governments Are Using Coronavirus to Build 'the Architecture of Oppression'

The last thing Snowden said rings true: "As authoritarianism spreads, as emergency laws proliferate, as we sacrifice our rights, we also sacrifice our capability to arrest the slide into a less liberal and less free world. Do you truly believe that when the first wave, this second wave, the 16th wave of the coronavirus is a long-forgotten memory, that these capabilities will not be kept? That these datasets will not be kept? No matter how it is being used, what� is being built is the architecture of oppression."

Corona crisis: an asymmetrical war of the super rich against the remaining 99 percent?

COVID-19 Is Creating The Greatest Wealth and Human Rights Heist

James wrote: "COVID-19 Is Creating The Greatest Wealth and Human Rights Heist "

Very scary stuff James, of course anytime there is money involved. It brings out the worst in people. Oh the god of money$. STOPPNow: (Stop the Organized Pill Pushers) Now There are two deadly epidemics on the world stage - Opiate and COVID 19. We do need to drain the swamp. I think pulling the funds from WHO is a good move. I hope all can step forward to fight corruption and greed.

Along with WHO being re-analyzed, i think we have come along way since the Acqu Immune Deficiency Syndrom.

I think when Trump declared 'free Covid treatments' it deflated the folks or companies that wanted to 'create' or 'react' for profit or power. What say you?

I say that there are 2 deadly epidemics. It is about time we ended both of them. Corona and Opiate. Please share:STOPPNow: (Stop the Organized Pill Pushers) Now

Lynn wrote: "Along with WHO being re-analyzed, i think we have come along way since the Acqu Immune Deficiency Syndrom.

I think when Trump de..."

My understanding is there are no proven Covid-19 treatments - free or otherwise - at this point regardless of what that idiot Trump might have declared. That's the word from scientists the world over who are currently racing to be the first to develop a vaccine for it at least.

James wrote: "Say no to house arrest

Nigel Farage
60.7K subscribers
Nigel’s latest Coronavirus update."


Christ, I never thought I'd agree with Farage!

ID 2020 IS HERE 🆔�� THE END IS NIGH | This Video Will Leave You Speechless | OMG! 😱 | Ralph Smart

Last May, a govt org outlined an extremely Orwellian vision for what the US must to do to win "the tech war" against China in AI. It essentially called to remake the entire American economy and society. Now, thanks to Covid19,their vision is taking shape.


TECHNO-TYRANNY: HOW THE US NATIONAL SECURITY STATE IS USING CORONAVIRUS TO FULFILL AN ORWELLIAN VISION



LAST YEAR, A GOVERNMENT COMMISSION CALLED FOR THE US TO ADOPT AN AI-DRIVEN MASS SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM FAR BEYOND THAT USED IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN ORDER TO ENSURE AMERICAN HEGEMONY IN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. NOW, MANY OF THE “OBSTACLES� THEY HAD CITED AS PREVENTING ITS IMPLEMENTATION ARE RAPIDLY BEING REMOVED UNDER THE GUISE OF COMBATING THE CORONAVIRUS CRISIS.

James wrote: "Last May, a govt org outlined an extremely Orwellian vision for what the US must to do to win "the tech war" against China in AI. It essentially called to remake the entire American economy and soc..."

I intuitively sense this is what this Corona crisis has been all about.
Could this report be like what the Project For the New American Century document was to 9/11?

Security State Using Coronavirus To Implement Orwellian Nightmare

(This video is an interview with Whitney Webb who uncovered the US document, mentioned in article above, via the US Freedom of Information Act)

'Everyone's been vaccinated around here anyway': Conspiracy theories run rampant after White House hot mic catches press room joke

A hot mic in the White House briefing room captured a conversation between Fox News reporter John Roberts and New York Times photographer Doug Mills
Roberts told Mills to take off his mask and quoted statistics from a California study that saw the fatality rate to be around seasonal flu levels
Mills then tells Roberts 'everyone around here has been vaccinated' for COVID coronavirus, apparently jokingly

Okay, so you have White House officials appearing here (unless video is a deep fake) to not only say the fatality rate is the same as the seasonal flu, but also wondering if the whole thing is "a hoax"... Listen for yourselves:

White House Hot Mic Claims Fatality Rate Is 1/10th Of Reported

THE PLAN FOR GLOBAL CONTROL: How Socialists Will Use Coronavirus Pandemic to RESHAPE OUR WORLD

This guy is the spiritual dude who is also a clinical psychologist.

He is one of the only people who predicted a major pandemic in 2020 (he predicted it mid-2019 in one of his videos)...And now he's predicting a mega outbreak coming as a Pandemic 2...Like a sequel, to keep us in long-term lockdown...

THEY WANT LOCKDOWN FOR THE NEXT 24 MONTHS | This Is Biowarfare | Pandemic 2 Is Coming | Ralph Smart


I hope he's wrong this time!

I have been suspicious that this whole scenario might be used to steal more of our freedoms.

Here in the UK, we tend to be 'cafe moaners', we will have a good whinge about whatever nonsense our government is foisting upon us, but largely we will roll over and put up with it.

I think we might benefit from taking a leaf from our Gallic cousins. The French public are notoriously feisty, and will take to the streets to protest in a very robust manner when/and if they feel like they are being shafted.

Shaun wrote: "I have been suspicious that this whole scenario might be used to steal more of our freedoms.

Here in the UK, we tend to be 'cafe moaners', we will have a good whinge about whatever nonsense our g..."

Much the same here in NZ, Shaun. Radio talkback is full of callers who "whinge about whatever nonsense our government is foisting upon us, but largely we will roll over and put up with it"...

...Unlike our Aussie neighbours who, like Americans, are quick to stand up for their rights.

BTW, of the 19 or so recorded 'Coronavirus deaths' in NZ one respected commentator postulates that "it appears" only one of those died 'of' the virus... The rest (he claims) died 'with' it and with other serious underlying health conditions.

Yeah, i have heard from one or two people that have had to argue with hospital staff re what the cause of a loved ones death should rightly be attributed to. It seems the trend is to document the death as 'died WITH Covid 19', even if the deceased had multiple long term health conditions that were probably the main cause (s) of death in reality. I’m not sure that all of these people are even being tested for Covid 19 either, and are just being chalked up as such if they had any cold/flu type symptoms.

The deaths in care homes of vulnerable people are worrisome too, i am reading stories about Doctor’s not attending the sick in person, just giving a diagnosis over the phone. Lots of room for abuse or misrepresentation i fear.

If i fell off of a cliff to my death today, and happened to have some cough sweets in my pocket, i wonder if it would be chalked up to Covid 19.

The death numbers are just starting to go down here in the UK, but all of a sudden we are now being told by the government/media that deaths in care homes are yet to be fully taken in to account. There are now reports of children going down with some sort of new Covid type syndrome. The more suspicious amongst us are wondering if these reports are bona fide. Are they an attempt to keep the fear level amongst the population stoked up? I remain open minded.

I have to say that since the epidemic things have taken a turn for the worse here in the UK in many ways. I think the key factor though is uncertainty and while we ponder ways through the various dilemmas we face, I too wonder just what the end objective is to all this.
Freedoms will be limited and I feel the plight of the less fortunate (socially and economically) will be hard. Sad thing is that many will be joining their ranks too as businesses and jobs go. One of my worries is just what a second wave will be like come winter. Because I have practiced almost total isolation my dealings with authorities have been thankfully limited. Anyone in the UK had bad experiences?
I hope it's all wild speculation and fearmongering.

No one wants to be wrong about this whole thing more than me. I strongly hope that the facts will eventually show me up to be a paranoid buffoon in the coming months. Concrete facts are a rare commodity though, ironic really, we are supposed to be living in the information age, after all.

The global scale of this thing is very worrying if there does turn out to be a sinister hand influencing the whole thing. All of a sudden the nuttier new world order theories look slightly less outlandish than they did three months ago.

Shaun wrote: "Yeah, i have heard from one or two people that have had to argue with hospital staff re what the cause of a loved ones death should rightly be attributed to. It seems the trend is to document the d..."

"If i fell off of a cliff to my death today, and happened to have some cough sweets in my pocket, i wonder if it would be chalked up to Covid 19."

- Hope you're not considering putting that to the test, Shaun!

No, not unless i get Jeffrey Epstein’d... underneath a cctv camera that has been switched off, naturally.

Elon Musk pushes for reopening country, ending 'de facto house arrest' | TheHill

In a series of tweets early Wednesday, Musk posted phrases like “FREE AMERICA NOW� and “Give people their freedom back� in response to the lockdowns, which have been in place throughout much of the country amid the pandemic.

There are 2 deadly epidemics. Big PhRma does not want their bottom line hurt. Too many are dying.

Super-Rich Are Getting Richer During The Pandemic

America’s Super-Rich See Their Wealth Rise by $282 Billion in Three Weeks of Pandemic
America’s billionaires have accrued more wealth in the past three weeks alone than they made in total prior to 1980.

Going Viral: Cyberbullying and Coronavirus