Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Gurl and I are starting a buddy read of Dark Fires by Rosemary Rogers. This book is more of Ginny and Steve and follow up to Sweet Savage Love. I’m trying to read the entire series this year as a challenge I’m doing in another HR group.

Begin you comment with the chapter(s) you are discussing.



Hiding of spoilers with “spoiler� html tags is required.

If you have the book, you are welcome to join us.

What is a spoiler? What are Spoiler tags?

What is a "Spoiler" and how do i use "Spoiler" tags?

Definitions of "Spoiler" from the Urban Dictionary:

1) ... revealing major parts of the plot or big story line events to others.

2) The ruining of a surprise in a book, movie, tv program, etc.

3) When someone reveals a previously unknown aspect of something ( a book, tv program, movie) which you likely would have rather learned on your own.

Rule of thumb: If you aren't sure if something is a "spoiler, " hide all of it behind spoiler tags.

Spoiler Tags

<*spoiler>Enclose text to be hidden between these html tags, except do not include the asterisks<*/spoiler>


(view spoiler)[ Enclose text to be hidden between these html tags, except do not include the asterisks (hide spoiler)]

Here examples of my comments from a past buddy read in another group with use of (possible) spoiler information hidden:

1) Example of Basic Use of spoiler tags. Its "basic," because all of the comment it hidden:

"Guys, I read the first chapter yesterday.

(view spoiler)[I had no idea this story took place in the 1920s. And a heroine with a college education too, a scholar!

Her mother is very jealous of heroine's closeness to her father. I'm already seeing that the heroine has love of archeology as another basis for a deep bond with her father and mother is uninterested in her husband's life's work. I don't know why Rupert wants to take his annoying wife unwillingly to Egypt! Maybe he is immune to her whining!"
(hide spoiler)]


2) Example of Advanced use of spoiler tags (or where I "feel" certain of what should be hidden or what is a spoiler/should be hidden and what is not:

"Guys, I read the first chapter yesterday.

I had no idea (view spoiler)[this story took place in the 1920s. And a heroine with a college education too, a scholar!, (hide spoiler)]

Her mother is very (view spoiler)[jealous of heroine's closeness to her father. (hide spoiler)]

I'm already seeing that the heroine has love of archeology as another (view spoiler)[basis for a deep bond with her father and mother is uninterested in her husband's life's work. (hide spoiler)]

I don't know why Rupert (view spoiler)[wants to take his annoying wife unwillingly to Egypt! (hide spoiler)] Maybe he is immune to her whining!"

Reserved

Reserved

Ch 1-2

Well, the annoying beta male(view spoiler)[Carl Hoskins (hide spoiler)] has shown up. I see a (view spoiler)[misunderstanding (hide spoiler)]between Ginny and her husband on the horizon over this dude.

Further, I prefect beta male will either (view spoiler)[kidnap (hide spoiler)] to “save her,� or end up (view spoiler)[ raping her (hide spoiler)]. He’s going to be beside himself when he finds out who Ginny’s husband is. This guy makes Ginny’s lady parts dry up, even before Steve, he annoyed her.

Ch 1+2,

practicing spoiler tags : O

<*spoiler> blah blah <*/spoiler>

Here’s a demo. Type out tags to hide spoilers as above but WITHOUT the *asterisk.

Ch 3-5

What an interesting twist! Ginny is actually (view spoiler)[the natural daughter of Tsar Alexander II Romanov, father of Nicholas II. (hide spoiler)] I know something about Ginny’s (view spoiler)[father, because I’m really interested in Imperial Russia and the Romanov Dynasty. I haven’t done any course work on it’s history.

My supervisor took a Russian lit class in college and one of my history professors wrote a book about the Black (race) presence in Russia. Have you read any Russian lit? War and Peace or Anna Karenina? I have also read Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert K. Massie. If you aren’t familiar with this book, it’s NF and besides being about the last Tsar and wife, it’s a good look at the last days of imperial Russia. The author is very sympathetic toward his two subject who were both such a disaster! <\spoiler>

This prince (view spoiler)[ who is so inflamed by Ginny’s rejection as a challenge to be overcome, inclusion in the storyline should outrage feminists everywhere! Very sexist! (hide spoiler)]

So it looks as if we the reader and Ginny will (view spoiler)[take a trip to Russia! (hide spoiler)]

On a final note: (view spoiler)[Even before Ginny found out that Sen. Brandon had her marriage annulled, nobody at the general’s headquarters respected her as a married woman (sending notes and trinkets, trying to force unwelcome attention on her—both sexual and non sexual. It’s interesting that the only ppl where she felt safe was with the ppl whom the Americans and General and officials saw as low-life’s. Ginny felt more comfortable and safe with the Soledad eras and soldaderos! She felt safest with these ppl the more “civilized� saw as crude, rough, superstitious, and uneducated. The irony! (hide spoiler)]

I’m sorry I kind of disappeared this weekend. I didn’t get as much reading done as I intended. I just got in club house last week, and I was on a 13 hour broadcast. Totally unexpected. (hide spoiler)]

Andrea, your recaps are so interesting! (I have only read book 1)

(view spoiler)[Ginny is Tsar Alexander II daughter??? That's so interesting.

I didn't like book 1, it was meh to me, so I figured I should skip the other books, especially since I can't seem to find Dark Fires in ebook format.

My mom is a HUGE royal families of Europe buff and she had this cool illustrated book of the last Russian family, which handled mostly Nicholas II and his immediate family. As a child, I used to go through that book and the photos again and again.

I read Anna Karenina but not War and Peace. Oh, and I watched Anastasia A LOT.

I'm not sure whether this motivates me enough to track don a copy of this book but it might just. (hide spoiler)]

Caro,

An earlier buddy read I did over here in BRRA for The Frost and the Flame that took place earlier in the 19C (view spoiler)[Russia, plot wise left a lot to be desired. I think it may have been the author’s 1st HR. While the plot was amateurish, he details of the backdrop of the repressive policies and paranoia of Nicholas I (I think Nicholas I was Tsar in this book I mentioned) if you know anything about what happened leading up to 1918, you can see threads of the then repression of Nicholas I and foreshadow of what was to come...The author did a bang up job with the period detail. The execution of the romance itself was lame, but for a 1st book... Based on her period detail, I’d try something else of hers (if she wrote more) to give a chance with executing a plot/romance itself. The potential was there in that book, but missed the mark. (hide spoiler)]

But, Caro, if you want to later do a Buddy read of another book, I’m game.

Ch 6-7

RR created an incel character decades before it was recognized as a thing. Elliot Rodger’s ancestor.

(view spoiler)[The source rage of Hoskins and incel temper tantrums is that another man WHOM they see as inferior, is chosen by the hot chick, their delusions that they are ENTITLED to the hot chick. While their sexual frustration is a driving force, they also want the hot chick in order to be a big-shot among other men... Blech, now my lady parts are dry... Hoskins is an angry incel creep! (hide spoiler)]

I called it, in my ch 1-2 post the this creeper would (view spoiler)[ end up kidnapping Ginny! (hide spoiler)]

How about how the officers and “gentlemen� sacrificed Ginny?!?? After all of their claims of if not attraction, but friendship for Ginny? The Mexican Soldaderos and soldaderos always treated her well. Indeed, a soldadera is the one who whispered in Ginny’s ear. I think is Ginny could have arranged to go to (view spoiler)[ Esteban’s grandfather, he could have helped her and tracked down her husband/grandson... (hide spoiler)]

The section where Ginny is contacted by Bernardo (view spoiler)[ to deliver message had me on the edge of my seat for the walk to the church. I felt Ginny’s excitement at possibility of meeting up w/Esteban! (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, I did that Buddyread with you. The Frost and the Flame was such a hot mess romance-wise. I remember resenting the hero sooo much. But yes, the historical detail was very good.

I'm thinking about reading Stormfire soonish. But I'm scared I'll hate it.

Caro,

I was supposed to do a buddy read of Stormfire that was supposed to begin wknd before last. Then the perso I was supposed to do it with had an emergency situation crop up (family illness). I decided to postpone Stormfire to try to wait for her. Would you like to buddy read Stormfire later?

I'm in! I've had that book sitting on my kindle for ages and I just want to get it over with. Just get in touch when you're both ready!

Caro � Hot Mess Sommelière wrote: "I'm in! I've had that book sitting on my kindle for ages and I just want to get it over with. Just get in touch when you're both ready!"

Ok. It’s going to take awhile. Both the young lady’s closest relative are ill.

Bookworms always have something to read.

I’ll look forward to the buddy read!

Dark Fires 3-5...

Ginny is in what appears to be her natural status, she is overwhelmingly attractive to men and also NEVER in control of any situation with them. Enter a visiting Russian Prince that she is to translate for and wait for the bombshell. Just waiting for Steve to show up and then see what happens. but misunderstandings are major plot/trope lines so we'll see what happens.

so on a secondary note did you know that Rosemary Rogers patterned Steve Morgan after Clint Eastwood? Yes way ; )

Gurl wrote: "Dark Fires 3-5...

Ginny is in what appears to be her natural status, she is overwhelmingly attractive to men and also NEVER in control of any situation with them. Enter a visiting Russian Prince t..."

Gurl wrote: "Dark Fires 3-5...

Ginny is in what appears to be her natural status, she is overwhelmingly attractive to men and also NEVER in control of any situation with them. Enter a visiting Russian Prince t..."

I noticed that. Ginny has absolutely no intuition, no sixth sense etc.
HR writers often make the h “well-educated� for the time period and often beyond what is normal or typical education for women of the time-period, but her education doesn’t help her in reading people, particularly men. Another convention in HR is to make the h willfull or have a mind of her own —all of this to make heroine relatable or attractive to present day (at the published) reader to read about an h living under restrictions that modern readers would find unbearable.
Also, having spent most or all of her life in Europe, it’s implied that she has sophistication to some degree. Not the case. None of the qualities that were established in Sweet Savage Love are of any help to Ginny. She is just swept along by other ppl’s plans and agendas for her by other ppl with absolutely no push back from her. She hasn’t taken control of her life in any situation!

What are your comments about my posts? I was trying to inspire conversation and interaction.

yes, i agree authors have to modify normal time period culture/values orherwise average reader would be depressed by how women were treated and expected to behave 150 yrs ago.

ya Ginny apparently gleaned nothing after having been a sex slave to solders and then a courtesan. she still gets pushed around, it does get a bit frustrating her using same tactics in 2nd book and no real emotional or thought process changes. there is some interesting historical content in between all the lip biting and and her wrists being grasped harshly ; )

i am now just finished chpt 5 and hope steve shows up and kicks some ass, as the Russian prince is behaving as i predicted he would.(in my mind that is). i also think RR may take the sadism up a notch in this book??

Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Gurl and I are starting a buddy read of Dark Fires by Rosemary Rogers. This book is more of Ginny and Steve and follow up to Sweet Savage Love. I’m trying..."

Hi Andrea and Gurl!

I was reading Hellion by Bertrice Small, but saw you guys were doing a buddy read of this one and it was staring straight at me from my bookshelf. Mind if I tag along? I'm at page 90 so far, but the way I read I either could finish it in a day or three weeks, depending on my mood. Sar far, it's going as I expected, which is good.

Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Ch 6-7

RR created an incel character decades before it was recognized as a thing. Elliot Rodger’s ancestor.

[spoilers removed]

I called it, in my ch 1-2 post the this creeper would [spoilers re..."

You were right about (view spoiler)[ Carl. I read the book 30 years ago, so my memory is spotty, but I remember hating him in SSL. Ginny described him as handsome, and he seemed to get the ladies' attention, so he wasn't so much as an incel but as a "nice" guy. You know, the type who orbits a beautiful woman, and thinks if he just waits his turn, she'll eventually pay attention to him. Generally, not always a douche, but still, with a sense of entitlement. Glad Ginny bashed his head in good. (hide spoiler)]

Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Gurl wrote: "Dark Fires 3-5...

Ginny is in what appears to be her natural status, she is overwhelmingly attractive to men and also NEVER in control of any situation with them. Enter a visiting Rus..."

Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Gurl wrote: "Dark Fires 3-5...

Ginny is in what appears to be her natural status, she is overwhelmingly attractive to men and also NEVER in control of any situation with them. Enter a visiting Rus..."

Despite starting out as a being convent bred innocent at 16, the rapes and tumultuous events she went through in SSL should have colored her opinions of men at least a little bit. Now, she's 21 and should have some solid common sense, although, she's being heedless and acting naive. I think that's why I liked Wicked Loving Lies so much, because, like Ginny, Marisa went through hell and back, but she was a fully changed person by the end of her book. Ginny, is a slower learner, it seems.

You're right, Ginny should have reached out to (view spoiler)[ Steve's family in Mexico after he abandoned her. Steve abandoning Ginny came as no shock to me. He's not a believer. They formed a bond in SSL, but not much trust. Although I thought for sure he'd come back and see Ginny in a compromising situation with the Russian guy, Ivan, though. It was silly that Steve fell for Carl's letter trick, but at least he gave Carl a well-deserved thrashing. (hide spoiler)]

Wendy, Lady Evelyn Quince wrote: "Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Ch 6-7

RR created an incel character decades before it was recognized as a thing. Elliot Rodger’s ancestor.

[spoilers removed]

I called it, in my ch 1-2 post th..."

@Wendy said: (view spoiler)[so he wasn't so much as an incel but as a "nice" guy. You know, the type who orbits a beautiful woman, and thinks if he just waits his turn, (hide spoiler)]

@Andrea: (view spoiler)[I think that Carl crossed the line into "Incel" territory from being "just" a nice guy and into Eliott Rodger creepiness with the anger and entitilement and anger that HE is more deserving than the other guy, completely removing the woman's preferences. Guys like Carl and Elliot Rodger have an entitlement to all of the "bad bitches" (hot chicks) based on a perceived meritocracy where they see themselves as more deserving. I know that this is still HR, but Carl completely removed Ginny's choice to marry who she married. Although this is the late 19th century, he knows darn well nobody forced Steve to marry anybody. It's the perceived meritocracy in Carl and the incel's mind and their sense of what they feel they are entitled to. (hide spoiler)]

Wendy I glad you changed your plans and decided to join in!

I love chatting about books--It's the interaction about the book. I know a lot of you who are OG members of this group chat under each other's updates while reading. That's the spirit of what I am hoping for. Real time chat about the book as we read. Chatting and responding to updates is very similar--Real time chat as the book is being read, its just that here we are all reading the same book and reacting to each other's comments.

With regards to Bertrice Small's Hellion, maybe we can buddy read this later. It looks like a good one.

I scanned the GR page for the book to see the ratings that readers gave the book (didn't read the reviews!) and someone mentioned 1) three-way and 2) DP! Bertie wasn't fooling around. She really was edgier than her peers with the kinky sex.

Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Wendy I glad you changed your plans and decided to join in!

I love chatting about books--It's the interaction about the book. I know a lot of you who are OG members of this group chat under each o..."

Yes, sometimes I'm a little late to the party on a book, and even worse, some of my reviews don't come out years after I read a book. So when I saw that this one was being read and I hadn't gotten to it yet, I knew I had to join the fun.

Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Wendy, Lady Evelyn Quince wrote: "Andrea AKA Catsos Person wrote: "Ch 6-7

RR created an incel character decades before it was recognized as a thing. Elliot Rodger’s ancestor.

[spoilers removed]
..."

Regardless of what they're called, be it incels, "nice guys,"
simps, white knights, stalkers, they're a different set of breed from the "typical" chauvinist who believes he has absolute authority over his female partner. The former are more pernicious because they pretend to be all these things they perceive women want and that by being so, they have an inherent right to the object of their affection, which is always a beautiful woman. Not any ordinary woman will do, it must be a woman "out of their league." Because they're so "nice," and patient, and "different' from other guys, they see themselves as worthy of sexual favors and get enraged when they're overlooked. These aren't beta males, who get a bad rap and can be genuinely decent nice guys. Men like (view spoiler)[ Carl (hide spoiler)] are omega scum.

@Wendy!

Exactly!

I was listening to a live discussion on Youtube of some men discusssing Incels. While, yes every dude wants the woman who is a perfect "10," incels are focused on measuring up to or impressing other men by the level of beauty of the woman that they can "get." The super-model-like woman is really a prop for them to get brownie points from other men! Removing (in this day an age) the woman's autonomy to choose the men that she lets in her orbit.

When I was reading about how (view spoiler)[ Carl (hide spoiler)] kept harping to (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)]

@Wendy.

You mentioned above that you were at page 90. I paged back in my copy of the book, as I had read farther ahead.

Ch 9 (incl page 90)

Somehow I feel it is a hoax that Ginny is (view spoiler)[the Tsar’s long-lost daughter, that he fathered with HIS list forbidden love. I don’t feel that niether Count Chernikoff or this sinister Prince are treating her like they are retrieving a daughter of a Tzar. If Count Chernikoff knows well this Prince, I can’t see why he’d trust that man with Ginny. And Count Chernikoff is a valued intimate friend of the Tsar too. They are treating her like a woman far removed from any protection. I don’t feel they are treating her like the Tsar’s daughter. I see no care and treatment for the child of an Emperor who is waiting to acknowledge and receive her as his daughter. The vibe for me is that she is a young woman removed from family or loved ones who care about her and it shows. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 10

Steve (I prefer Esteban!) may love Ginny but (view spoiler)[ he doesn’t trust her. Ginny was very hurt that Steve believed Carl Hoskin’s lies. Also, Steve doesn’t seem to believe Ginny’s declarations of love for him (if he did, why would he believe Hoskins?). Until Steve shows some vulnerability, I don’t think Ginny will believe him or that he loves her or make herself vulnerable to him.. He loves her enough to be mad that she had quickly remarried, but he is oblivious to how his lack of trust in her with this Hoskins treachery damaged her trust in him. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 11-13

It’s one thing to use the charm and beauty of one’s wife to captivate business men or paoliticians, but (view spoiler)[another thing to expose ones wife or daughter alone with unscrupulous men without the presence/protection of a husband or father present. It’s like Sakharov is a pimp. I can’t believe that Count Chernikoff didn’t know what a slime-bag Sakharov is! Ginny’s father was pissed at and hated Steve: Ok. But to OK an unknown man, who claimed to be a prince/nobleman of a remote foreign country to court and marry his daughter?!!?! And now Brandon is side eying and uneasy by Sakharov? It makes me wonder if Brandon is so lax in his protection of Ginny because he is aware that Ginny “allegedly� isn’t really his daughter? Brandon is a very unscrupulous man with his womenfolk: sending his daughter and wife cross country with a fortune in gold currency (as per SSL. He has no lines or boundaries with his family. (hide spoiler)]

Ch 13, p126: To quote the old blues musical artists, Sakharov is a (view spoiler)[back door man! (hide spoiler)]

Ch 14-16

Murdock is very mysterious. And now a guardian of old nemesis (view spoiler)[Concepcion, from SSL. (hide spoiler)] Now I’m wondering what Murdock’s relationship is to Don (view spoiler)[Alvarado, Steve/Esteban’s grandfather? (hide spoiler)] If Murdock is well acquainted with his Ward’s father, (view spoiler)[surely he knows Don Alvarado too? (hide spoiler)]

Ch 17-20

I’m wondering if Murdock is (view spoiler)[Steve’s father? They have the same initials “SM.� (hide spoiler)] I’m not trusting my memory of SSL, but isn’t (view spoiler)[Steve’s mother Don Alvarado’s daughter? And his father is an American? Why he also has the English language name “Steve Morgan?� (hide spoiler)]