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Personally, and I know this is scandalous, I *liked* Normal People. I was happy to see it make the tournament that year because I thought it would make for good discussion, and I was fascinated by how cleanly the love/hate line correlated with age in my personal circle. (As an elder millennial, I am the oldest person I know that enjoyed it.)

But was it better than all the other wonderful books in that year’s tournament? No. Should it have won all those matches in the SuperRooster? No. I think it suffered extra from being the most recent winner in the Super Rooster. We had just talked about it, and there it was. Again.

Basically, I think that even people that like Rooney got sick of talking about that book. There’s not enough there for all the times we’ve had to revisit it. I haven’t read the new one yet, but I’ve heard it trods the same ground, and even as someone who enjoyed that last time, and expects that I will probably even be entertained this time, I think there were better choices for conversation fodder just in the limited selections from the longlist that I have read.

Phyllis wrote: "I am laughing out loud at us - I think we must be the grumpiest gusses of book readers in the world! The ToB gods give us both the longlist and the shortlist way early, leaving us lots more time to..."

Ha! True. I'm ok with the omission of "major award winners". My own "druthers" lie in the direction of debut novelists (or even experienced novelists -- love you, Percival Everett! love you, Luis Alberto Urrea! love you, Dexter Palmer!) about whom I'd not have been aware but for the ToB. Of course, that way also sometimes lies clunkers (sorry, not sorry, "Overthrow"), but you also get more than the occasional pleasant surprise that makes up for it.

Anyway, if I were a ToB organizer, I'd be unperturbed, or even delighted, by the carping. It shows a high level of engagement with and enthusiasm for the event.

I agree. I hope that the organizers realize that we can only have such strong opinions because we care. So. Much. The shortlist has a huge influence on what I read for several months, and this community is my favorite place on the interwebs. I’m totally an evangelist for the ToB.

If we agreed with everything, there’d be nothing to talk about.

I love that we got the list early, but am grumpy about the zombie vote being so early! Dec 10th is way too soon! Yikes!

I just got my library holds in order and am pleased that only three (excluding a couple I don't plan on reading) have really long holds. And five are available right away, and several are available in multiple formats. Yay!

Bretnie wrote: "I just got my library holds in order and am pleased that only three (excluding a couple I don't plan on reading) have really long holds. And five are available right away, and several are available..."


You have an impressive library. Only one (The Echo Wife) was available now for me. Some have holds over six months.

Maggie wrote: "Personally, and I know this is scandalous, I *liked* Normal People. I was happy to see it make the tournament that year because I thought it would make for good discussion, and I was fascinated by ..."

It isn't scandalous to like Normal People. Lots of people liked Normal People. I loved Normal People. Rooney hasn't written anything yet that I didn't love.

The people who dislike Rooney really dislike her and are very vocal about it. The commentariat becomes unbearable when discussing her books because the Rooney haters can't even seem to fathom why anyone would like her work.

I'm happy she made it, and I'll vote for it for the Zombie, but I dread the discussion on it.

Phyllis wrote: "In ToB trivia, including the 2022 shortlist (and not counting summer camp), there are now 37 authors who have had two or more books compete in the ToB. Of those, four authors have had three books i..."

Thank you for this Phyllis. I'm surprised that Percival Everett has had so many books. Really excited to discuss "The Trees." One of my favorite books from 2021.

I, also, am a Rooney lover who does not find it worth commenting in the positive.

There is nothing worse than someone trying to convince you that you should hate the thing you love.

The last time I almost-did-that was after seeing The Rise of Skywalker with someone who was swoony in-love with it, when I was so disappointed I just wanted to crab about it. It was hard to curb my lack of enthusiasm!

I think the complaint about Rooney that I'm hearing in this group, though, isn't so much of the "how could you love her when I hate her" variety, so much as it is she's a known-known, an author who doesn't satisfy what we think of as top-goal reads for TOB--for instance that a book has won a major award, or is from a small press and hasn't gotten the attention it deserves, etc.

Tristan wrote: "Phyllis wrote: "In ToB trivia, including the 2022 shortlist (and not counting summer camp), there are now 37 authors who have had two or more books compete in the ToB. Of those, four authors have h..."

I think it's John Warner, one of the TOB organizers/booth people, who has said he views Everett as the greatest living American writer, so that probably explains his frequent appearances.

Nadine wrote: "Bretnie wrote: "I just got my library holds in order and am pleased that only three (excluding a couple I don't plan on reading) have really long holds. And five are available right away, and sever..."

My library system has every book on the shortlist without long holds on most, but I'm not sure if it's because my library system is better than yours, Nadine, but maybe its readers are less literary, or at least less competitive. Also, I'm assuming there are lots more ToB readers in the UK than in the US.

PS: I've changed my profile name to Nadine - California so I don't get confused ('hey, when did I write that?') A happy confusion - I love finally not being the only Nadine ;)

Nadine - California wrote: "PS: I've changed my profile name to Nadine - California so I don't get confused ('hey, when did I write that?') A happy confusion - I love finally not being the only Nadine ;) ..."



I've been getting confused too! I should change mine to "Nadine in NY" to match.

Elizabeth wrote: "I had Several People Are Typing out from the library, so started reading this afternoon (after finishing the beautiful Chouette!) I figured I'd just give it a few pages, but I'm alr..."

I'm in danger of being a broken record but it's even better in audio.

Here's a thought for discussion - how many of these shortlisted titles were selected, do you think, because they fit the theme better than other longlisted titles? Even the Kalsulke fits "tumult" well because it's in an office environment where everyone is working from home and one person is stuck in the virtual world (and it feels like pandemic times but it is more just general work from home culture times.)

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "I had Several People Are Typing out from the library, so started reading this afternoon (after finishing the beautiful Chouette!) I figured I'd just give it a few ..."

Could be. If that is so, then I am even sorrier about the omission of "A Call for Charlie Barnes". I am reading it now, and it is ... filled with tumult! And great humor. And pathos. I am only 1/4 of the way through (end of semester is a tough time for pleasure reading), but so far, it is among my favorite novels I've read this year.

Nadine in NY wrote: "You have an impressive library. Only one (The Echo Wife) was available now for me. Some have holds over six months."

Ha, I spoke too soon! All of the books that were immediately available now have holds. Seattle TOBers all got their holds going!

Risa wrote: "Anyway, if I were a ToB organizer, I'd be unperturbed, or even delighted, by the carping. It shows a high level of engagement with and enthusiasm for the event..."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we complain about the shortlist every single year? I can't remember any where there wasn't a significant amount of complaining that this is the worst selection ever.

Alison wrote: "Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we complain about the shortlist every single year? I can't remember any where there wasn't a significant amount of complaining that this is the worst selection ever."

That cracked me up, because yes after I grumped about this here I remembered writing a similar comment either last year or the year before. Ha.

But, you know, this year is especially bad. :)

LOL @Alison. Too True!

haha, and then when we DID get to pick the summer TOB list ourselves we complained then too! :)

The purpose of TOB has evolved over the years but I don't think the new purpose has ever been clearly stated, so naturally we'll all be disgruntled but for different reasons

In the beginning it was all big books from big publishers, and the tournament was about making the point that it was silly to choose just one book and call it "best of the year." The judgments were 2-3 paragraphs and pretty snarky because it was meant to be silly.

It was about the ridiculousness of setting up a competition between Philip Roth and David Mitchell. Along with TC Boyle, Tom Wolfe, Muriel Spark, Edwidge Danticat, etc.etc., all established writers, and not one translated novel, and no collections, and the publishers were all big 5.

I think it's more interesting now, but some things I like less well.

I like it less well that consistently great novelists like Anne Tyler and Louise Erdrich and Joyce Carol Oates get overlooked or put in the play-in round

I dislike the number of "debut" books. (I dislike the word "debut!").

And the small press selections just feel sort of like dart-throwing to me.

Well I hope books like Several People Are Typing are not a harbinger of things to come. It's not that it's a horrible book, it's just so "nothing" next to authors like the aforementioned Anne Tyler, Joyce Carol Oates and Louise Erdrich. I'm reading The Sentence next....maybe that will get me out of this grumpy mood.

lark wrote: "And the small press selections just feel sort of like dart-throwing to me."

Yes, that's the piece that bothers me most. I love discovering new authors and small press books! It's one of the things I rely on TOB (and NLF) for, highlighting books I wouldn't have found otherwise. But why pick books that are so poorly rated (or hardly rated at all, like a couple of the longlist books?) Put these authors up against Ozeki or Everett or Erdrich or, yes, even Sally Rooney, and they'll be out in the first round. And lots of us won't bother reading them because the reviews are so bad and/or our libraries don't carry them. So what's the point?

I think that the tournament allows us to see the farce of awards by including these small titles. Clearly, someone choosing the shortlist loved these books and they are added in, just like award winners can have personal champions among the judges and make shortlists when you would not expect. I think that the success of Optic Nerve and Fever Dream show that there is a space for smaller books. I love the predilection towards smaller books because the books from big publishers are easy to find. Additionally, I think there is only one debut novel this year, and its clearly an attempt at finding the timely book with its Slack trappings. As someone who is uses Teams (Microsoft version of Slack) all day long, it sounds interesting.

Finally, most of the people in this group are reading 50-100 books a year, there will always be countless books we see as snubs; some even unforgivable (TYLL, last year).

I think all of our feelings are valid, but I will also say that the tournament also ends up being very good generally, regardless of our shortlist opinions.

Uhoh I'm bailing on All's Well....

Tristan wrote: "Maggie wrote: "Personally, and I know this is scandalous, I *liked* Normal People. I was happy to see it make the tournament that year because I thought it would make for good discussion, and I was..."

I think Normal People was fine, and Beautiful World... is also pretty good. I think it's more like when an artist that has near-universal appeal/cachet gets all the awards, and the smaller/more interesting stuff never gets the acclaim it should get. Beyonce is a talented performer, but someone who likes Janelle Monae might get a bit miffed if Beyonce keeps taking the spotlight.

The fact that the Tournament of Champions ended up with it almost being proclaimed the best book of the last 16 years also didn't particularly silence its critics.

AH, Kyle your Beyonce/ Janelle Monae analogy is perfect. I have been a Janelle fan from day one. So many worthy things always get passed by, but Janelle is doing well for herself at this point.

ANYWAY, my theory on any potential disappointment by the time the short list arrives, is that the ToB has made so many of us more AWARE of books that are released in a year, that we imagine how amazing any possible shortlist can be even before it is released, and each of us have our own eighteen books we would like to ideally see. I'm just glad the ToB keeps truckin with this crazy event every year.

I'm only 10% through with Erdrich's The Sentence and I think I'm going to go ahead and toss it my zombie vote. Like most of you have expressed, I'm feeling a little let down by the list this year as well, but, as some have reasoned, I think I do usually feel this way, and I think it is due to the fact that there are less books for me to "discover" now because I'm a lot more savvy at picking ToB-friendly books to read throughout the year.

Anywhoo, of the six I've already read, none feels quite worth my zombie (I would say All's Well came closest, and Jenny, I would consider sticking with it as it definitely takes some turns), so what the hell, I like what I'm reading with the Erdrich so far, let's toss it a bone.

Elizabeth, what is “NLF��?

I just started the Erdrich as well. I don’t know where it’s going but I’m enjoying the journey. We still have a few days until the 10th so I hope to finish by then.

C wrote: "AH, Kyle your Beyonce/ Janelle Monae analogy is perfect. I have been a Janelle fan from day one. So many worthy things always get passed by, but Janelle is doing well for herself at this point.

A..."

Yes! I think this is a big part of it. Thanks to the ToB I'm hyper aware of new literature and certainly collected some favorites over the year. If I had my way the shortlist lineup would be this:

Hell of a Book
What Strange Paradise
How to Order the Universe
Infinite Country: A Novel
Bolla
Things We Lost to the Water
What Storm, What Thunder
The Five Wounds
Of Women and Salt
The President and the Frog
Brother, Sister, Mother, Explorer
The Removed
The Man Who Lived Underground
Gold Diggers
The Vietri Project

And the only one that is on the real list: Intimacies

I haven't read The Sentence or The Trees yet, but I'm happy they're on it and am deciding between those two for my zombie vote I think.

Lauren wrote: " If I had my way the shortlist lineup would b ..."

Okay, I'll take a stab at that, too. Lauren, you and I are definitely not similar readers! Here's mine (chosen strictly from the long list, for convenience).

A Calling for Charlie Barnes
All's Well
Everyone Knows Your Mother Is a Witch
Intimacies
Nightbitch
Subdivision
Cloud Cuckoo Land
Civilizations
Fight Night
Hard Like Water
Klara and the Sun
Jaguars' Tomb
Several People Are Typing
The Other Black Girl
The Trees

Harlem Shuffle
Crossroads
The Committed

These last three, all authors who have previously had a good run in the tourney, would have to compete for the wildcard spot.

Of course, I've only read a couple off that list so far, so most of those entries are on spec., and at least two books I originally wanted on the list were dropped after I read 'em.... But that's where it stands now.

Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: " If I had my way the shortlist lineup would b ..."

Okay, I'll take a stab at that, too. Lauren, you and I are definitely not similar readers! Here's mine (chosen strictly from the l..."

I am (very slowly) reading "A Calling for Charlie Barnes" now, and I think it's excellent. A book that, in these dark times, elicits from me peals of laughter? Well, that one is on its way to a place on my favorites list/shelves.

Phyllis wrote: "Elizabeth, what is “NLF��?"

Newest Literary Fiction...I just checked and it looks like you're actually part of it! We just did a buddy read of The Trees last month, it's not too late to join in. :)

Louise Erdrich reads her audio book version of The Sentence, I cannot recommend it enough. She is a hoot! I'm enjoying listening while also trying to get into Confessions of Copeland on my kindle.

Does anyone have thoughts on Libertie or Intimacies? Trying to decide if I want to put holds on them at the library.

I tried Libertie last summer, and it just didn’t work for me, the writing wasn’t great and it felt kind of YA-ish. I DNF’d it. I did really like Intimacies.

Kyle wrote: "Does anyone have thoughts on Libertie or Intimacies? Trying to decide if I want to put holds on them at the library."


I liked A Separation by Katie Kitamura (liked, but didn't LOVE), so I'm interested in reading Intimacies, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

Kyle wrote: "Does anyone have thoughts on Libertie or Intimacies? Trying to decide if I want to put holds on them at the library."

I second what Elizabeth and Nadine said. Intimacies for me is a perfect ToB book, interestingly written and a bit different, with lots to discuss. Libertie was well-done historical fiction---a good read and a good story of two Black women's lives, but thoroughly conventional in its storytelling and writing. I was surprised to see it on the short list.

Kyle wrote: "Does anyone have thoughts on Libertie or Intimacies? Trying to decide if I want to put holds on them at the library."

I was a fan of =Intimacies=, too. Haven't read =Libertie= yet.

Kyle wrote: "Does anyone have thoughts on Libertie or Intimacies? Trying to decide if I want to put holds on them at the library."

I was disappointed in where Libertie went when I listened to it earlier this year, but I might reread it in print for the tournament to give it another chance.

I enjoyed Intimacies! I feel like it dips into some new topics/situations that we could discuss.

Tim wrote: "These last three, all authors who have previously had a good run in the tourney, would have to compete for the wildcard spot."

I love that idea!

I am reading Intimacies right now and am thoroughly invested in it. Hoping to finish today and that it sticks the landing!

Elizabeth wrote: "Phyllis wrote: "Elizabeth, what is “NLF��?"

Newest Literary Fiction...I just checked and it looks like you're actually part of it! We just did a buddy read of The Trees last month, it's not too lat..."

That you, Elizabeth. What I dodo I am sometimes, especially about acronyms.

I noticed a couple books available on Bookmooch if anyone is looking for them:

Nightbitch:

The Final Revival of Opal & Nev:

Grab em quick!

I finished Hell of a Book last night and agree with it not being in the shortlist.

Do you ever just hate satire so much? Some of the book was clever, loved the opening scene; it would make a great tv show.

I call it meta satire. I get what he's doing but reading a novel length of it was excruciating in the end.

But at least I got through it. I often bail on satire....

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I finished Hell of a Book last night and agree with it not being in the shortlist.

Do you ever just hate satire so much? Some of the book was clever, loved the opening scene; it w..."

I do hate satire, so much of the beginning was annoying to me, and I found myself skimming through sections to get to Soot's narrative. But that was only in the beginning, I wouldn't consider this novel-length satire. There was significantly less of it as the book went on, and it became something so powerful.

Elizabeth wrote: "Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I finished Hell of a Book last night and agree with it not being in the shortlist.

Do you ever just hate satire so much? Some of the book was clever, ..."

Interesting because I found the satire to increase - the demands that he Make a Statement, the tv interview, the repeated passages where he would wake up and Soot would say something - the taxi driver who went to Harvard.... to me it never ended!

I do like how we all see books differently.

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: "I do like how we all see books differently...."

Well, in the interests of disagreeing, then, I'll note that even if you are wrong about =All's Well=, I think you are right about =Hell of a Book=.

I get the satire, usually I'm on board for exactly that kind of thing, but I just kept thinking to myself "I could read a little more of this, or I could read =The Sellout= again instead...."