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Hi Adrienne,

Thanks for posing this excellent inquiry: "Do you see this as young during the 1920s? Or even young today to marry?"

Absolutely and I blame religion for being one of the root causes for people to conform and live a life full of lies. My novella: "Jasmine Breeze" tackles religious oppression (Christianity) and how our gay communities are dying to please families and peers in order to be accepted. Most religions separate humanity, as opposed to uniting us.

Carey wrote: "What did anyone think about Clare's thoughts on having children?"

Did my thoughts change in regards to your question once I read the whole book. You know I wonder if she wanted children? Clare's thought when Irene asked her what she would do if her husband found out she was passing was that she could finally live in Harlem because that knowledge would end her marriage. She states that the only reason why she hasn't already moved to Harlem is because of Margery, but if her marriage ended she'd basically be free from her motherly responsibilities. At least that's how I interpreted it. Good question.

I thought about the children thingy. they seemed concerned about having a dark one. I just read "the blacker the berrier" and sadly the mixed couple, one of them was very light, had a dark daughter. what is dark? are they following the brown bag rule?

Tiffany wrote: "Respectability politics (what drove Irene) and misery (what drove Clare) are two big themes in this great book."

Respectability politics! I'd been trying to figure out the name for what Irene's parameters were about. She was so bound by that and yes both respectability politics and misery are huge themes in this book.

Kari wrote: "Melanie wrote: Kari wrote: "What you said about Clare being lonely, I can see that. From that view, it makes sense that she might want to insert herself into Irene's family. You know I wonder why Irene never questions her obsession with Clare? Do you think its because Irene is so focused on keeping her life as it is?

I think so too and I have some mixed feelings. Irene is supposedly trying to protect herself/her family and always relies on security and her morals. "

This is an interesting perspective.

I think Irene is unwilling to look at her true desires (until Part Three). She chooses to live a safer life rather than take risks.

I think that is why she is so obsessed with Clare. Because Clare breaks all of the 'rules' and unapologetically does what she wants.

In the first act, Irene describes Clare Kendry as 'Stepping always on the edge of danger. Always aware, but never pulling back or turning aside.' Even in childhood, Clare was always willing to get what she wants, regardless of the consequences.

While both Irene and Clare grew up poor in Chicago, there are hints that maybe Clare was poorer. Her father was a janitor.

Irene obtained the highest 'acceptable' life for Black people. She married a black doctor in Harlem (where the Black Renaissance was taking place). She is a housewife with hired help. Yet, she is unable to prevent or save her children from racism. Like any mother, this deeply bothers Irene.

But Irene can't face this.
She interrupts Brian talking to the children about the lynching. She refuses to take a risk and live abroad where their children can avoid American racism.

But Clare is the complete opposite. She recognized she wanted financial security AND a racism-free life. And Clare risks her own life by embracing a white identity.

I think Irene is deeply intrigued by Clare's unapologetic nature.
As you guys mentioned, Irene could have ended all contact with Clare numerous times, but she didn't.

I believe this is what leads to the big scenes in Part Three. Irene finally faces uncomfortable truths and examines her own desires. And more importantly, Irene decides to take an active role in obtaining her desires.

But that is my interpretation.

I really love this book.

I first read this book, two months ago after watching the Netflix adaptation.

I had mixed feelings upon the first read. But I'm grateful to have a second chance to explore these characters.

Larsen was so far ahead of her time. I'm so happy this story is getting more attention.

Mary wrote: "Kari wrote: "Melanie wrote: Kari wrote: "What you said about Clare being lonely, I can see that. From that view, it makes sense that she might want to insert herself into Irene's family. You know I..."

I love how you interpret this novel and the two main characters when it comes to their experiences and how they either embrace the "passing" as white, or as Irene defines it, she doesn't want to lose her beliefs/thoughts as a "race".

Moreover, I did like how Clare acknowledges Irene's behavior when John Bellow (sp) calls her a "Nig". A normal person who have blew up, and shown such rage or how upset they were; but in part 2 I believe it is in the eBook reading, Clare states how she "beautifully behaved" in such a situation.

However, Irene does keep thinking about how Clare lives her life somewhat carelessly and free in her new identity in passing, that she does harbor on what she said as you beautifully shared in this.

Mary wrote: "I think Irene is unwilling to look at her true desires (until Part Three). She chooses to live a safer life rather than take risks.

I think that is why she is so obsessed with Clare. Because Clare breaks all of the 'rules' and apologetically does what she wants.

In the first act, Irene describes Clare Kendry as 'Stepping always on the edge of danger. Always aware, but never pulling back or turning aside.' Even in childhood, Clare was always willing to get what she wants, regardless of the consequences."

Clare most definitely breaks all the ‘rules�� doesn't she? She and Irene are the opposite ends of the same candle. I agree that Irene is unwilling to look at her true desires until Part 3, but it seems she chooses safety over everything else and will defend it at all costs?

Mary wrote: "I think Irene is deeply intrigued by Clare's unapologetic nature. As you guys mentioned, Irene could have ended all contact with Clare numerous times, but she didn't.

I believe this is what leads to the big scenes in Part Three. Irene finally faces uncomfortable truths and examines her own desires. And more importantly, Irene decides to take an active role in obtaining her desires. "

Yes, I can see that, and does it sure lead to big scenes throughout the end. Speaking of taking an active role to obtain her desires, I did not see that final scene coming at all. I was stunned the whole week after reading it. The destruction racism causes....

Adrienna wrote: "Moreover, I did like how Clare acknowledges Irene's behavior when John Bellow (sp) calls her a "Nig". A normal person who have blew up, and shown such rage or how upset they were; but in part 2 I believe it is in the eBook reading, Clare states how she "beautifully behaved" in such a situation.."

Yes, John's first scene is so perverse. Just reading it made me feel uncomfortable. I still can't imagine someone subjecting themselves to this type of hatred on a daily basis. Let alone sleeping with them. I truly hated Clare.


Kari wrote: "Clare most definitely breaks all the ‘rules�� doesn't she? She and Irene are the opposite ends of the same candle. I agree that Irene is unwilling to look at her true desires until Part 3, but it seems she chooses safety over everything else and will defend it at all costs?"

I can see your point. Irene's life can still be interpreted as safe.

For me, Irene passively lives her life for most of the book. She observes others. But in the third act, I agree with you. Irene defends her life at all costs. To me, this is a major step of growth for her. To me, Irene is no longer playing 'safe'. And I kinda admire her for that.

I really like how Larsen leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I like how there are no clear answers. Or even judgment.

what starts to trouble me even more is Irene in part three. she truly wants to get rid of Clare at all costs. she thinks of Margery being ill (I personally wouldn't think that on an innocent soul or child), then John finding out about what he hates the most, a black person (they call it negro, which also in Spanish is black), this bothers me that you would involve family to destroy her, or hurt her in order to remove her from her life. if someone wants me out, just be honest and tell me. don't involve my family to do it.

Mary wrote: "For me, Irene passively lives her life for most of the book. She observes others. But in the third act, I agree with you. Irene defends her life at all costs. To me, this is a major step of growth for her. To me, Irene is no longer playing 'safe'. And I kinda admire her for that.

I really like how Larsen leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I like how there are no clear answers. Or even judgment.
"

Good point. I hadn't really thought of it in that way. She certainly moves from a passive actor in her life to an active participant.

Yes, I like how Larsen leaves room for interpretation and that lack of judgment really allows the characters to be themselves and the story to unfold as it needs to.

Did Clare fall or did Irene give her a slight push? I watched the movie and wondered too. The book gave the ending a little more how Irene reacted and somewhat felt that leads me to believing she touched her to help her fall.

Adrienna wrote: "what starts to trouble me even more is Irene in part three. she truly wants to get rid of Clare at all costs. she thinks of Margery being ill (I personally wouldn't think that on an innocent soul o..."

Yes, this is all true. But what do you think of Clare's involvement in Irene's family life in Part Three?

Clare is having an affair with Irene's husband, Brian. Irene invited Clare into her home and shared her family with her.


Adrienna wrote: "Did Clare fall or did Irene give her a slight push? I watched the movie and wondered too. The book gave the ending a little more how Irene reacted and somewhat felt that leads me to believing she touched her to help her fall."

I still don't know what happened with the ending. I switch back and forth every day. I wish we could do a poll to see what others think.

I thought she assumed with the flirtation, not actual encounter@Mary. I know the Netflix shown the same, not actual affair.

Adrienna wrote: "Did Clare fall or did Irene give her a slight push? I watched the movie and wondered too. The book gave the ending a little more how Irene reacted and somewhat felt that leads me to believing she touched her to help her fall."

Good question. I reread the ending last night and am leaning towards Irene having pushed or at least caused Clare to fall but Larsen leaves it open enough that I'm not 100% sure. Love the tension it creates.

Adrienna wrote: "I thought she assumed with the flirtation, not actual encounter@Mary. I know the Netflix shown the same, not actual affair."

You're right. There is no explicit confirmation about what is between Brian and Clare.

In the book, Irene comes to this assumption from an argument with her husband Brian, before Hugh's birthday. Clare is not directly present in this scene.

It's a good point because we are trusting Irene's point of view for everything. Irene can definitely be seen as an unreliable narrator.

If Clare only had an innocent flirtation with Brian, what do you think drove Irene to behaving so differently in Part Three?

Kari wrote: "Good question. I reread the ending last night and am leaning towards Irene having pushed or at least caused Clare to fall but Larsen leaves it open enough that I'm not 100% sure. Love the tension it creates"

YES! I love the tension.

Today, I am leaning towards Irene pushed her lol. But tomorrow, I will say Clare jumped.

It kinda reminds me of a good friend explaining a story where everyone else did something wrong, except your friend lol. You love your friend, but you know your friend has a tendency to omit their actions in the story.

I'm agreeing with Kari. Larsen later started she reached for her in Irene's thoughts, which she was a bit frightened I sensed to answer her length of time to get too the body like everyone else. did you catch how she went in the room and laughed as everyone else rushed down the flight of stairs.

Irene went through stages of her own light complexion, passing on part one to get things she wanted in the stores where whites were, dangling here and there with the race thing, later she felt it was a burden to be there for her race, and then flipped out on part three. it's build up of it all. she tried to focus on her and what she wanted, then flirtation with Clare and how she felt about it all as passing with the exception of her daughter, and now want to see the good ridden of a child hood friend because of her carefree life as a white woman but wants to hang out with her race. I think those hidden feeling she suppressed now unleashed the true madness she held inside, envy.

Adrienna wrote: "Irene went through stages of her own light complexion, passing on part one to get things she wanted in the stores where whites were, dangling here and there with the race thing, later she felt it w..."

I can see your point.

It's nice to hear other interpretations of the story.

Finished this today.

I found Irene Redfield a frustrating character. Irene has contrived to the best of her ability to live a “safe�� life (safe financially and safe socially.) She has conformed to her community's idea of middle class life, and thinks she is happy. I think it's telling that she meets Clare while passing. What does Clare (and/or white society) have that she wants? She dosen't want to/ refuses to/ is unable to discuss race with her husband and tries to keep him from discussing Jim Crow and racism with her sons, as if not discussing it will protect them from its effects.

It may be my lack, but I could not understand Irene's inability to cut Clare out of her life after their initial meeting. Possibly there is an affection from their childhood that she isn't able to conciously acknowledge. But I think there is something additonal going on, I'm just not sure what.

I can't claim to understand Clare either, but she appears to have grabbed her chance for financial security and escaping the overt effects of racism by passing as white and marrying a white man. She appears to miss her connection to the black community where her life began. I think what Clare is searching for is a place to belong.

Neither of these women can escape racism and it has costs for both of them.

Both Irene and Clare seem to understand Clare as someone who goes after, and gets, what she wants. I think Clare has a clearer view of herself than Irene. Irene is so busy trying to conform to her society's expectations that she hasn't allowed herself to acknowldge the burden race puts on her, and perhaps to acknowlege desires that don't fit in that community's expectation.

I think what Clare possibly sparked in Irene, or maybe what she did for Irene is allow her to see past what she expects her world to look like and instead see it for what it is?

Kari (34) Yes, and Irene doesn't like it.

They are both so opposite, but basically they both want to be loved and seen in their communities and maybe look for it a little bit in each other? IreneC sometimes doesn't seem to find what she is looking for in Brian either, maybe Clare has sparked something in her? And now she is a little afraid to go too far and trying to get away from Clare again ...

Melanie (37), I think that is at least part of it. Clare somehow makes her see the costs of conforming? They are both trying to conform in a way . . .

Maybe the ability of Clare to go after & get what she wants is what attracts Irene to keep letting her into her circle? And yet, Clare isn't satisfied with her life . . .

For anyone who is interested, here is a short (9 min) youtube video about passing, then and now.

Ardene wrote: "Finished this today.

I found Irene Redfield a frustrating character. Irene has contrived to the best of her ability to live a “safe�� life (safe financially and safe socially.) She has conformed to..."

agree. well-put.

ColumbusReads wrote: "Gitte - Bookworm's Closet wrote: "I've now read the book and watched the movie. Really liked both (much better than TVH). I liked how it adressed issues of race, class and gender - without being to..."

I wholeheartedly agree with you! Being a graduate of Howard University, I thoroughly understand the diverse dimensions of 'Colorism.' This book feels like home and it's timeliness will continue to be an icon.

Did anyone see Gertrude (character) and her significant other in the Netflix movie? When I read this, I didn't recall seeing that character in it. Would anyone liked to see her daughter, Margery, even for a moment? Does it matter, or her take on this, but again, she is hidden in the dark on this race issue?

Adrienna, yes, it matters. Clare doesn't seem to have any mothering skills. (But was she ever mothered?)

I dreaded what would happen to Margery if/when her dad found out she was part black.

I have a question - there is a memoir I'm reading that has themes of passing. Does this group ever read nonfiction?

The book is Fairest by Meredith Talusan. She grew up in the Philippines, very fair, as a male, let herself pass at Harvard, mostly, as white & gay male, eventually transitions to female. The book opens when she attends a reunion at Harvard, then gradually fills in backstory.

Marla-Tiye wrote: "The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy, by Theodore Lothrop Stoddard is a great book to viscerally comprehend systemic White Supremacy. Furthermore, it was written during the same t..."

Wow, great observations!

Kari wrote: "Mary wrote: "For me, Irene passively lives her life for most of the book. She observes others. But in the third act, I agree with you. Irene defends her life at all costs. To me, this is a major st..."

I think Irene pushed her and knew Bellew wouldn't say anything about it.

Ardene wrote: "For anyone who is interested, here is a short (9 min) youtube video about passing, then and now.

"

Great video. Thanks for posting it.

Any final thoughts on PASSING? I read it the first time maybe 15 years ago and it’s tight up there with THERE EYES WERE WATCHING GOD for me. A real work of art. Did you all like this one?

ColumbusReads wrote: "Any final thoughts on PASSING? I read it the first time maybe 15 years ago and it’s tight up there with THERE EYES WERE WATCHING GOD for me. A real work of art. Did you all like this one?"

Yes, good choice for this month. Beautifully written and surprisingly impactful considering its novella length. I wasn't expecting that.

So, I just finished Passing and I did not necessarily like it. What frustrates me the most was how Irene failed to establish and enforce boundaries with Clare. This is shown during their first encounter X amount of years later; Irene constantly said she had to leave, but Clare begged her to stay. Irene ignored letters and calls, Clare took it upon her self to show up at her house. This was extremely problematic for me, as someone who is very clear about my personal boundaries. It made me hate both characters.

Kiara this book did something to your emotional and personal connection. so the novel did some justice, but I didn't love the book, yet liked it. I agree with the negativeness sprinkled thru the novels.

I'm almost done with this book the back and forth between Clare and Irene is an interesting tale that makes you think. It makes me think about natives that were part white but passing for white while those of us that were full blood or part black couldn't.

Kiara wrote: "So, I just finished Passing and I did not necessarily like it. What frustrates me the most was how Irene failed to establish and enforce boundaries with Clare. This is shown during their first enco..."

I completely agree. They were both selfish cowards. However, I did enjoy Ms. Larson's writing.

Ardene, thank you very much for posting the video and writing your insights!

ColumbusReads wrote: "Any final thoughts on PASSING? I read it the first time maybe 15 years ago and it’s tight up there with THERE EYES WERE WATCHING GOD for me. A real work of art. Did you all like this one?"

To be honest, it was one of the best books I read in a while and its writing blow my mind. I can not describe exactely why but the writing of Nella Larsen got me through and through!

Totally understand why this novel is a classic/still so relevant. I will also read more of Nella Larsen in the future and I checked out her biography.

In the meantime I watched Netflix`s movie adaption and I liked the black and white effects and the calm scenes very much (normally I am not very much into book adaptions because it is sometimes so disappointing, hmmm, if you made up everything in your mind and nothing fits anymore ... but I did like this one very much). Also read an article after watching it and realized that the director`s mother also passed as white.

What do you think about the movie adaption?

Melanie wrote: "Ardene, thank you very much for posting the video and writing your insights!

ColumbusReads wrote: "Any final thoughts on PASSING? I read it the first time maybe 15 years ago and it’s tight up ther..."

I enjoyed the movie very much - Tessa Thompson & Ruth Negga did great jobs. But I did wish their accents were closer to those in the audiobook. The narrator there put such a 30's spin on Clare & Irene's voices. The movie's ending was ambiguous while the book's ending left little doubt, in my opinion,