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This thread is for a discussion of the book and its ending, as well as the movie. Please do not read any comments on this thread if you don't like spoilers.

I'd be interested to know how closely the movie follows the book.

I saw the movie and hope to be listening to the book in April so I can compare the two.

library girl reading wrote: "Janice wrote: "I saw the movie and hope to be listening to the book in April so I can compare the two."

Janice I saw you were a part of this club and want to read and compare The Passing also! So ..."

Me too and am glad you joined. :)

I just finished, does the movie end just as written?

I just finished, and my feelings about the story are pretty complex. Hoping a vigorous discussion here will help clarify things for me!

I would class this as a tragedy, in the sense that the different characters� inherent flaws drive the story toward an inevitable conclusion. I don’t read a lot of tragedies because a part of me is always pushing back against the inevitable, hoping for an escape. Also because I like characters to change and grow, not just march blindly forward to their fate.

It was an interesting window into the potential as well as the limits of middle-class, prosperous African American society during the Harlem Renaissance. Larsen had a very sharp eye for motive and hypocrisy, which along with the understated writing style saved the story from melodrama. It was interesting to me the extent to which the characters accepted white racism as a given, with rage but not outrage; also interesting that the history of slavery never entered into their worldview, even though there must have been people still living who had been slaves. Classic American amnesia.

Question for other readers: do you think Irene pushed Clare?

I love this novel, and Larsen's intentionally, perfectly ambiguous ending is part of what gives it real estate in my head - likely, for as long as I'm alive.

@abigail - yes, but this question gives rise to the ultimate literary bar fight. What do you think?

I am inclined to think that she did, because of the way the moment was framed in her willful refusal to remember events. Her behavior throughout seemed characterized by choosing not to engage with realities she found difficult. On the other hand, it’s hard to see how she might have done it when Clare was the focus of attention, and how she wouldn’t have been pulled off balance herself by Clare’s outward trajectory. If she did do it, I think it was the impulse of the moment, not a premeditated thing as might be suggested by her having opened the window in the first place.

This is certainly a book that would repay multiple rereadings! I’m very glad it was chosen.

CindySR wrote: "I just finished, does the movie end just as written?"

I haven't started listening to it yet. :)

By the way, for anyone who read an edition that doesn't include Darryl Pinckney's intro, it's linked below and available at LitHub with no firewall. I found the literary history of passing, and how it was treated by white vs black authors, a vital source of context in understanding Larsen's novel.



So - another question about that ending - if the character who is passing typically "pays" for her sin against society in white-authored literature, does Larsen intend for readers to view Clare as having been punished for her choice to pass? If she has, who or what is the punish-er?

I see the punishment in fiction of people who pass in the wider context of stories reinforcing society’s norms by punishing people who don’t fit in—gay characters notably got the same treatment for ages, and still often do. I would say Clare’s punishment was inevitable in a tragedy, but also that she seems to have been punished as much because she seduced Irene’s husband and lied to her own.

Look forward to reading the intro you’ve provided the link for!

Thank you for the intro, Carol.

It really is the most ambiguous ending and I want to think Irene pushed Clare. It is a short, but very interesting read with so many nuances. It's a pity Larsen only wrote two full-length books in the end.

The concept of passing is also a key element of The Vanishing Half where one twin chooses to "pass" and the other not.

In apartheid South Africa, a light-skinned person normally of mixed-race origin could get past the many rules as to where they could live and work by passing. And so it was a known concept. In The Sabi, Diane Brown writes about her experience as the darker-skinned one in an African family and the different treatment she received within her family.

If anyone is interested is getting a male's viewpoint of passing across the color barrier, then I can highly recommend The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man by James Weldon Johnson. James Weldon Johnson also wrote the Negro National Anthem. which was sung at Pres. Obama's first inauguration ..

Note that the book is fiction even though the title seems to indicate otherwise.

Carolien wrote: "It really is the most ambiguous ending and I want to think Irene pushed Clare...."

Clare seemed to me, throughout the whole story, to be a little unhinged, so it wasn't hard for me to think she just gave up and fell out on purpose.

Passing makes reference to real people living and working in Harlem. This article gives us lots more information on those people.

Thanks, Emily!

Thanks, Emily - this is great.

I just finished it up last night. I think Irene is guilty more because she wished Clare gone than that she actually pushed her.

Clare wouldn't want to give John the satisfaction of humilitating her in front of her Negro friends so I can see her falling out of the window. Plus after her death, John wasn't there anymore.

I did not know there was a movie. I will have to check it out. I am just getting started on the book.

There is no definite answer in the book; do you think Brian had an affair with Clare?

I go back and forth on if Clare had an affair with Brian or not. It seems possible but Clare is dependent on Irene for the "Negro" experience that her life passing for white doesn't provide. I just don't see Clare jeopardizing her friendship with Irene by having an affair with Brian.

Charlene wrote: "There is no definite answer in the book; do you think Brian had an affair with Clare?

I go back and forth on if Clare had an affair with Brian or not. It seems possible but Clare is dependent on I..."

I'm unsure, but I don't think that Clare's life choices suggest that she contemplates any of her lies being found out or that she factors in that risk to her decision. If she's willing to pass and risk daily being found out, she wouldn't decline an affair because there's a risk of discovery and related consequences. I suspect they were involved intermittently.

My personal feeling is that they did have an affair—Brian was clearly bowled over and Clare was a risk junkie. There was a lot of pop-culture mythology about black men’s greater virility in those days, and I suspect she would have been curious—trying on a different life for size. She was kind of a blood sucker too, co-opting Irene’s life.

I finished listening to the book yesterday and thought it was amazing!!! I would definitely read it again. This is also an instant that I loved the book and the movie. Listening to the book, I am still not sure if Irene pushed Clare deliberately or indeliberately. I don't know if she stepped back and by doing that Clare tripped and fell. When I watched the movie I thought that Clare fell on purpose because she was afraid of what her husband would do to her as he was so angry when he burst into the room. The book gave more insight into Irene's thoughts. I don't think Clare and Brian were having an affair of the physical kind but more of an emotional kind. Perhaps they felt this would be safer as it would only be seen as chatting and sitting with each other, nothing harmful, right? I do feel that they may have got together and gone to Brazil as Brian wanted. Brian would still support Irene and the boys but no longer live with them. Clare did "warn" Irene that she always gets what she wants at any cost so I assume even her friendship with Irene and most likely losing her child to her husband.

I was betting on a Clare/Brian affair early on in the book. Not because of a scene between them, but their personalities. So when Irene started thinking it....
As for the ending. I despise ambiguous endings. I feel I have an implied contract with writers to tell me a story and I do not want to write my own ending. My guess was accident but who knows? In fact, an ambiguous ending will always lower my final rating.

Who else has seen the movie? What are your thoughts and is it still available on Netflix?

What do you suppose happens to Margaret? Does her father abandon her?

Margery stupid autocorrect.

Good question. The book leaves us with a lot of questions.

Jan wrote: "What do you suppose happens to Margaret? Does her father abandon her?"

I think Margery will be sent to boarding school to boarding school until she gets married. If I was to guess, Margery will be in Europe left to pretty much grow up on her own. John will pay for her care but won't be involved. I really don't think either of Margery's parents were involved in her life anyways before Clare died.

I don't see John wanting to admit that Clare had African American heritage and he was fooled by her. He probably won't tell Margery unless he has too. Keeping her in European boarding schools in a great way to for him to not have to deal with anything.

I think Margery will only get abandoned if John remarries and has another family.

I could see John leaving her to her own devices and not admiting the black heritage in Clare and continuing to pay for her Margery's financial support.
Probably deepens his racial hatred, too.

I watched the movie yesterday and it is well done and follows the book rather closely.