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message 1: by Diane (new)

Diane Zwang | 1847 comments Mod
Review thread


message 2: by Diane (new)

Diane Zwang | 1847 comments Mod
Questions from wwnorton.com. Feel free to pick and choose.

1. The first two lines of this book’s epigraph are “…Beware / Of good Samaritans—walk to the right.� How does this foreshadow what happens in the novel? Do you agree with the choice of this quotation?

2. Marya tries to “escape the fear that [had] hunted her� since childhood. Why do you think she’s fearful? How do her circumstances as a former chorus girl living in interwar Paris exacerbate her terror? Do you believe mental illness is a factor?

3. Do you think Lois is aware of her husband’s attraction to Marya as early as their first meeting? Do you think Lois is also attracted to Marya? Why do you think Lois is compelled to paint Marya?

4. Marya realizes that the Heidlers classify everyone they meet: “The Beautiful Young Men, the Dazzlers, the Middle Westerners, the Down-and-Outs, the Freaks�. How do you think the Heidlers classify Marya? Do you think Marya is aware of how the Heidlers see her?

5. Marya believes herself to be “a soft, thin-skinned kind of person,� while she believes Hugh Heidler to be “extraordinarily hard�. Do you agree? Which scenes in this novel support Marya’s claim? Does Marya seem to be attracted or repelled by Heidler’s hardness?

6. Marya thinks of the “little sculptor� who said, “You’re a victim. There’s no endurance in your face. Victims are necessary so that the strong may exercise their will and become more

strong�. Do you believe Marya is a victim? Why or why not? Who in this novel is a victim? Who is a perpetrator?

7. Heidler repeatedly tells Marya, “You’ve got to play the game�. What is the game? Why does Heidler expect Marya to play it?

8. What is the relationship between charity, sex, class, and power in this novel?

9. Unlike Lois, Marya has “no self-control. No training�. What does Lois understand about life that Marya doesn’t? Does Marya’s lack of self-control and training make her a tragic character? Why or why not?

10. Stephan is “a very gentle and expert lover�. Heidler is a bad lover: “His hands were inexpert, clumsy at caresses; his mouth was hard when he kissed�. How much does sexual performance matter to Marya? What matters more? How does Marya ultimately define love with these two men?

11. Heidler dislikes Marya when there’s “a coarse sound in her laughter�. When in the novel does Heidler seem to like Marya? When do you think he decides she’s a “savage�? What do his preferences and remarks tell us about how he views women?

12. Heidler tells Marya that “sex is a ferocious thing�. What does this reveal about Heidler? Do you think Marya agrees with him? Why or why not?

13. When Marya hysterically confesses to Heidler that she loves him, he tells her that she’s not well. Do you believe that Marya has actually gone mad? What do you think she should do? To what extent is Heidler responsible for her mental state?

14. Marya thinks she is a “bad one� and Lois is “good�. Why does Marya come to view herself as the “bad� woman? What does that mean? How do you imagine you would have felt in Marya’s position? What would you have done?

15. Stephan tells Marya that “primitive people follow their instinct and sometimes that’s the cleverest thing one can do�. Do you agree? Who in this novel seems to act on instinct? Who doesn’t?

16. The novel ends in Stephan’s perspective. He is thinking about women as “loathsome, horrible—soft and disgusting weights suspended round the necks of men, dragging them downwards�. Do you feel sorry for Stephan? Why do you think Rhys ends the novel this way?

17. Rhys frequently shifts perspective. How did this choice affect your experience of the novel? How would your experience have been different if Rhys had told the story exclusively from Marya’s point of view?


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

1. The first two lines of this book’s epigraph are “…Beware / Of good Samaritans—walk to the right.� How does this foreshadow what happens in the novel? Do you agree with the choice of this quotation?

I agree with this as it hints that the Heidler's are not all that they seem at first sight.

2. Marya tries to “escape the fear that [had] hunted her� since childhood. Why do you think she’s fearful? How do her circumstances as a former chorus girl living in interwar Paris exacerbate her terror? Do you believe mental illness is a factor?

I think Marya is afraid of being poor and destitute. She knows how easy it is to lose everything and to go hungry and to be driven to actions you later regret. Not sure about the mental illness aspect that didn't jump out at me while reading but thinking back some actions could be seen in the light of obsession.

3. Do you think Lois is aware of her husband’s attraction to Marya as early as their first meeting? Do you think Lois is also attracted to Marya? Why do you think Lois is compelled to paint Marya?

I believe Lois is aware even if only subconsciously from the first and yes she probably also finds Marya attractive which is why she wants to paint her.

4. Marya realizes that the Heidlers classify everyone they meet: “The Beautiful Young Men, the Dazzlers, the Middle Westerners, the Down-and-Outs, the Freaks�. How do you think the Heidlers classify Marya? Do you think Marya is aware of how the Heidlers see her?

I think Marya is classified as interesting but can be manipulated I am fairly sure she has no awareness of this.


7. Heidler repeatedly tells Marya, “You’ve got to play the game�. What is the game? Why does Heidler expect Marya to play it?

The game is having a discreet affair that allows Lois and Heidler to claim in public that their marriage is sound. Marya has to play to get the benefits of home and hearth.


12. Heidler tells Marya that “sex is a ferocious thing�. What does this reveal about Heidler? Do you think Marya agrees with him? Why or why not?

Heidler is selfish and only interested in himself and his pleasure. Marya knows this is not true because Stephan is different in this regard.

13. When Marya hysterically confesses to Heidler that she loves him, he tells her that she’s not well. Do you believe that Marya has actually gone mad? What do you think she should do? To what extent is Heidler responsible for her mental state?

I think Marya is confused and needs to hold onto something Heidler seems like stability to her. Heidler has made her dependent by his treatment of her and to just cut her off is cruel in the extreme.

14. Marya thinks she is a “bad one� and Lois is “good�. Why does Marya come to view herself as the “bad� woman? What does that mean? How do you imagine you would have felt in Marya’s position? What would you have done?

Marya is bad as she has betrayed her husband and she has had an affair with a married man. Lois is good because all she has done is allowed her husband to be happy. I would have left the Heidlers as soon as Heidler made the first advance.

16. The novel ends in Stephan’s perspective. He is thinking about women as “loathsome, horrible—soft and disgusting weights suspended round the necks of men, dragging them downwards�. Do you feel sorry for Stephan? Why do you think Rhys ends the novel this way?

No I don't feel sorry for Stephen his behaviour got him where he ended up and Marya just acted to survive. No idea why the book ends like this.


John Dishwasher John Dishwasher (johndishwasher) | 26 comments 9. Unlike Lois, Marya has “no self-control. No training�. What does Lois understand about life that Marya doesn’t? Does Marya’s lack of self-control and training make her a tragic character? Why or why not?

I don't believe Marya's lack of self-control and training make her tragic, per se. But they are indications of her childlikeness, which, as it is being corrupted by her straits, is the tragedy of the novel. I go on about this in my review, but basically I believe Rhys used Marya and the other characters allegorically to show how the child in each of us can be corrupted.


message 5: by Gail (last edited Nov 05, 2022 10:54AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Gail (gailifer) | 2124 comments 1. The first two lines of this book’s epigraph are “…Beware / Of good Samaritans—walk to the right.� How does this foreshadow what happens in the novel? Do you agree with the choice of this quotation?

Different from "no good deed goes unpunished", this quote correlates being on the receiving end of a good deed to being punished. It sets up the story well for what is to follow, however, Marya knows from the beginning that moving in with the Heidlers is not a smart thing to do. She anticipates the conflict and the drama and yet goes ahead with it as she feels that she has no choice. The book is interesting in that it never gives the reader any hints of other choices that Marya may have.

2. Marya tries to “escape the fear that [had] hunted her� since childhood. Why do you think she’s fearful? How do her circumstances as a former chorus girl living in interwar Paris exacerbate her terror? Do you believe mental illness is a factor?

I believe that the instability in her life was the main cause of her fear. She appeared to think she had very little control over her circumstances and, in fact, at that time, there were a very limited number of options for women who had no independent means and/or were not married. However, she longed for a free and tranquil life while making choices that would not lead to that. Being a chorus girl was not a lead up to being free and tranquil.

3. Do you think Lois is aware of her husband’s attraction to Marya as early as their first meeting? Do you think Lois is also attracted to Marya? Why do you think Lois is compelled to paint Marya?

Yes, it seems that Lois knows about her husband's tendencies and is very aware of his attraction to Marya. She also know that it will pass as long as she allows it and doesn't make a fuss. Painting Marya was Lois' way of also claiming Marya and controlling her.

4. Marya realizes that the Heidlers classify everyone they meet: “The Beautiful Young Men, the Dazzlers, the Middle Westerners, the Down-and-Outs, the Freaks�. How do you think the Heidlers classify Marya? Do you think Marya is aware of how the Heidlers see her?

I think that Marya knows that they classify her but does not know the exact nature of the bucket she has been put into. She does not see herself as childlike and easy to manipulate although she clearly is. She knows that she has put herself into a horrible situation but she does not appear to know how to exit from it.

5. Marya believes herself to be “a soft, thin-skinned kind of person,� while she believes Hugh Heidler to be “extraordinarily hard�. Do you agree? Which scenes in this novel support Marya’s claim? Does Marya seem to be attracted or repelled by Heidler’s hardness?

Heidler is hard in that he doesn't care about the emotions of others and his own emotions, even his lust for Marya, are framed in a way that he can largely control. Marya is not as in control of her own emotions and is sensitive to the emotions of others and is also sensitive to the sneers or looks that others direct toward her.

7. Heidler repeatedly tells Marya, “You’ve got to play the game�. What is the game? Why does Heidler expect Marya to play it?

Book answered this question clearly. The game is to make everything acceptable in public while doing what the Heidlers want in private. If Marya plays the game well her reputation is not lost and she benefits by being taken care of financially. However, Marya doesn't care about the game and has trouble playing it because she not only doesn't know the rules, she is uninterested in the specific goals that Heidlers are aiming at.

8. What is the relationship between charity, sex, class, and power in this novel?

If you have money, you can afford to be charitable, have sex, and exercise power. Marya had to pay for the charity offered her and had little choice about sex, class or power.

10. Stephan is “a very gentle and expert lover�. Heidler is a bad lover: “His hands were inexpert, clumsy at caresses; his mouth was hard when he kissed�. How much does sexual performance matter to Marya? What matters more? How does Marya ultimately define love with these two men?

Marya likes Stephan and particularly enjoys the life they had which was stable and free. Also Stephan cared about taking care of her sexually as well as financially. Marya loves Heidler (or so she insists), but does not like him or trust him nor does she appreciate the actual sex but is appreciative of the time together in a comfortable bed.

12. Heidler tells Marya that “sex is a ferocious thing�. What does this reveal about Heidler? Do you think Marya agrees with him? Why or why not?

Heidler enjoys the drama of being in love knowing that it will not disrupt his life very much because his wife tolerates his little episodes. Heidler is not a passionate man and he is not a good lover but he craves the intellectual thought of being emotionally out of control. The only time that he actually appears to really be physically and emotionally out of control is when Marya is not behaving predictably. This makes him very nervous and on edge.
Marya looks to sex for comfort and physical grounding and does not see it as a ferocious thing.

13. When Marya hysterically confesses to Heidler that she loves him, he tells her that she’s not well. Do you believe that Marya has actually gone mad? What do you think she should do? To what extent is Heidler responsible for her mental state?

Heidler has manipulated Marya into an emotional state that triggers her extreme fear of instability, of being alone penniless on the street, of not having a place in the world. She loves his calm, his inscrutable thoughts, and his never being out of control. Marya really believes that he does not understand that she loves him and wants to impress that upon him repeatedly. However, Heidler, enjoyed the winning her over and the manipulation of her but is not that interested in her loving him although he definitely does not want her being with another man.

14. Marya thinks she is a “bad one� and Lois is “good�. Why does Marya come to view herself as the “bad� woman? What does that mean? How do you imagine you would have felt in Marya’s position? What would you have done?

I would hope that I would never have found myself in that situation to begin with and if I found myself in that situation, I would just leave it. That is easy to say because one imagines alternatives. Rhys is very circumspect about any alternatives that Marya might have. Her aunt has little money but would have potentially at least allowed her to live with her. We know that Marya can not go back to being a chorus girl and she doesn't perceive herself as a prostitute, even one that is high class and well taken care of. She has no other friends that will take her in that we are aware of. Marya knew it was dangerous to move in with the Heidlers and understood Lois' manipulation much better than she understood Heidlers. She hates Lois but believes that Lois is "good" because, in fact, she has not betrayed her husband. Marya has betrayed her husband and has committed adultery with another woman's husband. Marya does not necessarily care about what others think but she is very aware that society will punish her and not Heidler or Lois in this situation.

15. Stephan tells Marya that “primitive people follow their instinct and sometimes that’s the cleverest thing one can do�. Do you agree? Who in this novel seems to act on instinct? Who doesn’t?

Stephan himself acts on instinct often by taking chances when he shouldn't just because he feels that he can get away with it. Marya occasionally acts on a kind of instinct that is educated with some sensitive feelings. She wants to make sure that Stephan is okay even though she doesn't want to be his physical lover any more. She always, unfortunately for her, appears to have an instinct to remove herself from her pain by getting drunk.

16. The novel ends in Stephan’s perspective. He is thinking about women as “loathsome, horrible—soft and disgusting weights suspended round the necks of men, dragging them downwards�. Do you feel sorry for Stephan? Why do you think Rhys ends the novel this way?

I think that it is Rhys' way of underlining that Marya is nothing in this world, and that other people's perceptions of her are very removed from the pitiful being that she is. I have no sympathy for Stephan. He felt sorry for himself well enough.


message 6: by Rosemary (last edited Nov 11, 2022 12:29PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rosemary | 676 comments 1. The first two lines of this book’s epigraph are “…Beware / Of good Samaritans—walk to the right.� How does this foreshadow what happens in the novel? Do you agree with the choice of this quotation?

The Heidlers are acting as "Good Samaritans" in offering Marya a place to live - but she knows from the start there will be a catch.

2. Marya tries to “escape the fear that [had] hunted her� since childhood. Why do you think she’s fearful? How do her circumstances as a former chorus girl living in interwar Paris exacerbate her terror? Do you believe mental illness is a factor?

Marya is right to be fearful because she is dependent on others. She lived at a time when it was very difficult for a woman to earn her own living in socially acceptable ways, and she had no family to fall back except an aunt with whom she would have had to live a very circumscribed life. I think Marya is unstable but not mentally ill, unless alcoholism is a mental illness.

3. Do you think Lois is aware of her husband’s attraction to Marya as early as their first meeting? Do you think Lois is also attracted to Marya? Why do you think Lois is compelled to paint Marya?

Yes I think Lois knows exactly what is happening because she has seen it all before. I don't think she is attracted to Marya although she doesn't dislike her at first. Once the affair starts, she wants to control Marya and especially stop her splitting the couple, so to "play the game".

4. Marya realizes that the Heidlers classify everyone they meet: “The Beautiful Young Men, the Dazzlers, the Middle Westerners, the Down-and-Outs, the Freaks�. How do you think the Heidlers classify Marya? Do you think Marya is aware of how the Heidlers see her?

I think Marya would be one of the Freaks. I think she slowly becomes aware of how Lois sees her. I'm not sure if she is ever aware of how HJ sees her. He remains an enigma to some extent.

6. Marya thinks of the “little sculptor� who said, “You’re a victim. There’s no endurance in your face. Victims are necessary so that the strong may exercise their will and become more strong�. Do you believe Marya is a victim? Why or why not? Who in this novel is a victim? Who is a perpetrator?

In a sense everyone is a victim and everyone is a perpetrator. But Marya has a strong victim mentality and is inclined to blame others for what happens to her.

7. Heidler repeatedly tells Marya, “You’ve got to play the game�. What is the game? Why does Heidler expect Marya to play it?

The game is to pretend they are all friends while the affair is going on between HJ and Marya. Heidler wants Marya to play it because he wants to stay with his wife while enjoying the affair. If Marya caused ructions, this might not be possible.

9. Unlike Lois, Marya has “no self-control. No training�. What does Lois understand about life that Marya doesn’t? Does Marya’s lack of self-control and training make her a tragic character? Why or why not?

A tragic character in the classics has a fatal flaw. Yes, I think Marya has this. She is unable to see what is good for her, and does the easiest thing or is propelled by her wishes in the moment, like a child.

10. Stephan is “a very gentle and expert lover�. Heidler is a bad lover: “His hands were inexpert, clumsy at caresses; his mouth was hard when he kissed�. How much does sexual performance matter to Marya? What matters more? How does Marya ultimately define love with these two men?

If Stephan hadn't been in prison, I don't think Marya would have looked twice at Heidler. All she seems to care about is having someone look after her, and until Stephan was jailed he did that well enough.

14. Marya thinks she is a “bad one� and Lois is “good�. Why does Marya come to view herself as the “bad� woman? What does that mean? How do you imagine you would have felt in Marya’s position? What would you have done?

She sees herself as the bad woman because that's how society views adultery. Lois is not having an affair so she's defined as good, no matter what her personal qualities may be.

If I fell into that situation I am pretty sure I'd leave it sooner than she did. Marya has some options to leave, which she doesn't take. I would have taken them.

Reading through all this, it sounds like I am very unsympathetic to Marya. Actually I am not. She is much manipulated by all of the other three in the quartet, and I guess she has never known any other way of life or been shown how a woman can be strong. So I did feel sympathetic towards her although I hope I would never act quite the way she did.


Kristel (kristelh) | 5053 comments Mod
1. in this case, good Samaritans are not really looking out for you. Nothing is free and in this case the charity from Heidler's has a terrible price tag.

2. It seems she should have had more skills for survival even if she returned to the entertainment business. The fact that she ended up prostituting herself was no better. I did not buy her story. I don't think she had a mental illness but she was heading towards an alcohol and drug problem. She was rightfully depressed but not without resources.

3. There was something about Lois that suggested manliness and perhaps she was attracted to Marya and was living vicariously through her husband.

4. Down and out and a freak

5. I think she is repelled but then attracted to his hardness. She is attracted because she thinks he will take care of her. She wants someone to take care of her.

6. I think she is easy prey because she is vulnerable, desires to be taken care of and seems to have no resources of her own. But being a victim is a choice and she could have chosen to do things differently.

7. Marya isn't playing by the rules. It's an affair and Marya is not to expect anything in this relationship. If she plays it right so that Heidlers reputation is not sullied she can be "taken care of".

8. Charity implies poverty, sex is what she has to bargain with for power but she doesn't play the game right so she doesn't have any power and is at risk of losing charity, and at some point the sex will fizzle too?

9. Marya wasn't raised with "social/class" and doesn't know how to be in control. I think of her as a pathetic character rather than tragic.

10. The sex is secondary, security is her main goal. As a wife, she should have gone with her husband. It could not have been worse than how it turned out and at least he was tender to her.

11. Heidler likes Marya when she is crying, needy.

12. Heidler feels that “sex is a ferocious thing�. It is aggressive, self serving.

13. Love was never an option, by confessing love, which I doubt it was, she really does manage to drive her protector away.

14. Marya is the mistress, the prostitute and she has no power. The wife is legal and has position and power.

15. Stephen does, to some extent Marya is doing so too. Chardin does too.

16. The novel ends in Stephan’s perspective. He is thinking about women as “loathsome, horrible—soft and disgusting weights suspended round the necks of men, dragging them downwards�. Do you feel sorry for Stephan? Why do you think Rhys ends the novel this way?

I don't feel terribly sorry for Stephen but I also think his wife was misleading him and that wasn't right either. Her confession to Stephan hurt him. When he pushed her and she fell, we don't know how badly she was hurt or whether she would be okay. He walks away not caring. Her end is worse than ever because now she is very injured and has no one to care for her.

17. Only one perspective would leave us with no knowledge of how others were feeling except through the eyes of Marya.


Pamela (bibliohound) | 563 comments 1. The first two lines of this book’s epigraph are “…Beware / Of good Samaritans—walk to the right.� How does this foreshadow what happens in the novel? Do you agree with the choice of this quotation?

This sets the reader up to realise that those ostensibly offering help may actually be best avoided. This is certainly true of HJ and Lois with their hidden agenda.

2. Marya tries to “escape the fear that [had] hunted her� since childhood. Why do you think she’s fearful? How do her circumstances as a former chorus girl living in interwar Paris exacerbate her terror? Do you believe mental illness is a factor?

Marya has had an unstable and uncertain life so far, without any obvious means of gaining stability. As a chorus girl, she is not particularly talented and successful, and on the other hand is not willing to compromise herself as others do, so she has had a precarious existence. I don’t feel mental illness played a part at this point, her depression and lethargy develop as a result of her poverty and loneliness.

3. Do you think Lois is aware of her husband’s attraction to Marya as early as their first meeting? Do you think Lois is also attracted to Marya? Why do you think Lois is compelled to paint Marya?

I think Lois knows what to expect, she is submissive to her husband’s desires and is determined to take control of the situation. Painting Marya is a way of controlling her, and is also a handy excuse for her presence at their home and in ‘the game�.

6. Marya thinks of the “little sculptor� who said, “You’re a victim. There’s no endurance in your face. Victims are necessary so that the strong may exercise their will and become more strong�. Do you believe Marya is a victim? Why or why not? Who in this novel is a victim? Who is a perpetrator?

Marya is a victim of the Heidlers. This is partly because of her situation of being alone without means of support, but also through her own actions when she doesn’t resist the Heidlers and chooses to give in, even when HJ insults her. She tries to persuade him to take her side against Lois when he obviously won’t.

7. Heidler repeatedly tells Marya, “You’ve got to play the game�. What is the game? Why does Heidler expect Marya to play it?

Keeping up appearances in their social circles. Heidler gets his desires satisfied without social stigma, Lois keeps her position, Marya gets cared for. He doesn’t see how she can expect any more from them than that.

10. Stephan is “a very gentle and expert lover�. Heidler is a bad lover: “His hands were inexpert, clumsy at caresses; his mouth was hard when he kissed�. How much does sexual performance matter to Marya? What matters more? How does Marya ultimately define love with these two men?

Marya has low self esteem, she seems willing to accept any kind of treatment from Heidler. Stephan represents a time when she was carefree and felt protected, and her sexual experiences mirror this. Despite his greater wealth, Heidler is not really protecting Marya, he only cares about himself, and sex with him reflects this attitude. She believes she loves Heidler, but it is a desperate need for stability and trust.

11. Heidler dislikes Marya when there’s “a coarse sound in her laughter�. When in the novel does Heidler seem to like Marya? When do you think he decides she’s a “savage�? What do his preferences and remarks tell us about how he views women?

Heidler likes Marya to be passive and obedient, playing the game. He doesn’t like her to question him, to criticise his or Lois� behaviour, to be too needy or demanding. He doesn’t care about women, they are there to serve his purposes as lovers or carers.

13. When Marya hysterically confesses to Heidler that she loves him, he tells her that she’s not well. Do you believe that Marya has actually gone mad? What do you think she should do? To what extent is Heidler responsible for her mental state?

I don’t think she is actually mad, she is desperate to be heard and loved. She is becoming dependent on alcohol and sleeping meds to block out reality, especially once she has been shuffled off to the South of France. She knows she is being punished for her refusal to toe the line, and to protect the Heidlers� reputation.

14. Marya thinks she is a “bad one� and Lois is “good�. Why does Marya come to view herself as the “bad� woman? What does that mean? How do you imagine you would have felt in Marya’s position? What would you have done?

Marya thinks she is bad because she has effectively become a prostitute in her own eyes, she has a relationship that is not built on honest reciprocal feelings. I’m not sure Marya really thinks Lois is good, there’s some irony there, but in the eyes of society Lois been charitable to an ungrateful girl who then seduced her husband. I like to think I wouldn’t have been dragged in to such a sordid situation, but if I was poor and desperate�

16. The novel ends in Stephan’s perspective. He is thinking about women as “loathsome, horrible—soft and disgusting weights suspended round the necks of men, dragging them downwards�. Do you feel sorry for Stephan? Why do you think Rhys ends the novel this way?

I don’t feel sorry for Stephan in the sense that he wasn’t honest with Marya and his actions led to him being sent to prison, so he was responsible for their difficulties. I did feel some sympathy for his disappointment and hurt, as Marya had been dishonest too. I think the book ended this way as he goes off with someone harder and more ready to adapt to get what she wants.


message 9: by Pip (new) - rated it 4 stars

Pip | 1822 comments 1. The epigraph warns the reader so that when they meet the Heidlers they immediately distrust them as Good Samaritans who have ulterior motives.

2. Marya has never been in a secure environment so being fearful is natural rather than a symptom of mental illness.

3. Lois immediately sees Marya as an ideal candidate to be her husband‘s ne t fling because she is in a vulnerable position and unlikely to cause a fuss. That is why she likes her.

4. It takes Marya an unbelievably long time to realise that she is being exploited and the Heidlers see her as an ideal victim.

5. Marya sees herself as thin skinned because she is aware of the censure of others and it makes her uncomfortable whereas Heidler is oblivious to what others think of him. He does not take Marya‘s feelings into account, especially as he is a poor lover.


message 10: by Pip (new) - rated it 4 stars

Pip | 1822 comments 6. Everyone, with the exception of Heidler,is both a perpetrator and a victim!

7. Playing the game means pretending that nothing untoward is going on and,above all, not creating scenes.

10. Marya appreciates that Stephan was much more in tune with her needs, not only as a considerate lover, but when he buys her a beautiful dress, for example. They also laughed a lot. Heidler, however, despite his hardness, is providing for her when Stephan is not. Their sexual prowess is therefore not the most important consideration.

16. I think Rhys is being critical of men when she has Stephan thinking so mysonigistically. I don’t feel particularly sorry for Stephan because he did not explain why he was in prison, nor worry excessively of the position he had left Marya in.

17. Probably I would have felt more compassionate towards Marya if it had all been her perspective.


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