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Weekly TLS > What are we reading? 1 May 2023

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message 101: by Andy (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1486 comments High Sierra by W.R. Burnett High Sierra by W.R. Burnett

This novel is, in effect, a biography of Roy Earle, a fictional character, but one that reflects the lives of several notorious American outlaws of the 1920s and 1930s.

It begins..
Early in the twentieth century, when Roy Earle was a happy boy on an Indiana farm, he had no idea that at thirty-seven he’d be a pardoned ex-convict driving alone through the Nevada-California desert towards an ambiguous destiny in the Far West.

Burnett takes on quite something, the definitive story of Earle as he leaves jail, falls in love, and builds towards the heist that will mean his spell his downfall.

The image of Earle builds throughout the piece, from idealistic to naive, ruthless yet inevitably doomed. But he earns the reader’s sympathy because of his faults, perhaps we can see ourselves in him. He is easy to identify with.

The portrait Burnett ultimately paints of the 1930s outlaw is a sad one, but it is highly entertaining to read because of an element of the surreal, and a smattering of bleak humour.

For many I think, High Sierra is best known for John Huston’s film, with the outstanding Bogart performance. Huston concentrates on the romantic element, with a Robin Hood shade to it. Burnett stresses Earle as being a contradiction, full of passion and rage.
Maybe the film is a distant memory, as it was to me, seen too long ago.
My recommendation therefore is to read this, and then, watch the movie again..


message 102: by Andy (last edited May 07, 2023 07:23AM) (new)

Andy Weston (andyweston) | 1486 comments and High Priest of California by Charles Willeford High Priest of California by Charles Willeford

Willeford’s career can be broken down into three parts, his pulp fiction of the 50s and 60s at the start of his oeuvre, to the noir classics of the later 60s and 70s (such as the tremendous Cockfighter), and then after, when he threw the towel in and wrote commercial crime, like the Hoke Moseley novels, still great, just not my preference.

Most of the Willeford I have read is from his pulp period, and this ranks, along with the likes of The Woman Chaser and Pick-Up, as his best.

This is the story of Russell Haxby, in that most entertaining of noir trades, a used car salesman, in San Francisco. He meets a naive woman called Alyce in a dance hall. Haxby is an unpleasant character, an experienced womaniser, but he has never met a woman who resists him in such unusual ways as Alyce does. She is a strange sort, apparently innocent and living a dull and sheltered life, gathering stray cats and keeping them shut up in her apartment. Her goal it seems, is to capture a man, like the cats, and keep him under her control. Haxby susses this out, and plays along. She is not interested in sex, but that merely eggs Haxby on. Both keep secrets from each other, and their respective efforts to get the upper hand in the relationship are highly entertaining.

Alyce it materialises, is married. Her husband Salvatore is very much older than her, and is rapidly losing his marbles from untreated syphilis. Like the cats, Alyce is in complete control of him.
Haxby is a sociopath, and will stop at nothing to get Alyce into bed, be it bribery, adulation, deception, double-dealing or even violence. But he treats everyone with such disdain, not just Alyce.

As obnoxious as Haxby is, his character if compelling to read about. He listens to classical music, reads Joyce and translates ancient Greek to relax. On the car lot he is continually flipping the prices on the various wrecks, waiting for returning Korean War vets with big pay-offs to come calling. The pair are wonderful Willeford creations.

Willeford noticeably had a strange idea of what made a good title. Here, Haxby is nicknamed ‘High Priest� by a friend in a bar early in the novel. One of his unpublished novels was called ‘A Necklace of Hickeys�, and he wrote a self-published book called ‘A Guide for the Under-haemorrhoided�, an account of his own haemorrhoid operation.

These days, I think this sort of pulp fiction is an acquired taste. This is how things used to be. In our times of cancel culture offence would be taken from page one. You can’t write like this any more. If Willeford was to be rewritten like Roald Dahl, Ian Fleming or Agatha Christie, his work would be unrecognisable.

His later work is where a reader new to him would be better advised to start, Cockfighter, or one of the Hoke Moseley novels.

Here’s a couple of clips..
As I lighted the cigarette I looked at Alyce. Her eyes were too bright. The tragic lines were sharper and were etched deeply from the wings of her nose to the corners of her mouth. she was a woman built for suffering and tragedy.


and
Women don’t eat much, foolish, foolish. I believe a person should take advantage of anything that gives them pleasure. When you figure that this rock we’re living on is spinning around once a day, every day, 365 spins a year, and with each day you get a day older. What the hell does an extra inch or two around the waistline mean? An extra inch or two, period.



message 103: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "A steady topic over the last few years for me has been the history of the two Germanies from 1945 to 1990.

With some superb documentation available for free on the net, via the German..."


will do MK, the 1945-50 period saw a lot of people whisked off to the USA, quite a few of them Nazi's to help with various programs and intelligence work. Clearly the USA were keen to use the copious nazi documentation of communists in the German underground. Gehlen (a former Nazi himself )became a grand fromage or gross kase in the West German intelligence world.


message 104: by AB76 (last edited May 07, 2023 07:47AM) (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments I think Mach has deleted his GR profile, thats a shame, he does post on the Guardian but its a much trickier forum as we all know and a lot less interesting

its strange how Glad and him moved back to the bigger but heavily censored pond over at the G and abandoned Ersatz TLS


message 105: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6239 comments Mod
CCCubbon wrote: "Tomorrow is the day at the inn for the fete and my little archaeological exhibition is part of it ..."

Good luck for tomorrow, CC! Your exhibition sounds really interesting, let us know how it goes.


message 106: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Berkley wrote: "I should see if Le Robert or someone else has a good French slang dictionary, come to think of it. "

I am sympathetic in theory to the idea of using books (dictionaries) for looking up unknown words or phrases, but in practice find it far quicker to use online resources. I have a whole folder of bookmarks devoted to these on top of just being able to use Google to find possible 'answers'.

My proudest moment came when I unearthed a reference for 'griache' - an obscure word which appeared perfectly appropriately in Désérable's 'Tu montreras ma tête au peuple' - a word specific to the Conciergerie where that particular chapter was set. Talk about obscure!


(At times I can get fairly obsessive about tracking down such stuff; it irritates me if I don't find any references.)


message 107: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Russell wrote: "The book belongs to its age. I looked at foutre, for which it says:

The original meaning (‘to have sexual intercourse�) has been lost sight of in most cases, and the lower classes attach no unseemly signification to the word."


Really? It is amusing to imagine the author coming back in his time machine to be greeted with "Va te faire foutre!"
I wonder what he'd think it meant...

Most online resources offer possible meanings for words, but no etymology - which is fascinating to me. I also have links in the same folder to a number of etymological sites. Every so often I come across a new one, and add it!


message 108: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Russell wrote: "I’ve wondered whether it would help to listen to audiobooks in French, to get my ear in..."

Maybe, though I'd suggest that as conversation (except on the 'phone) involves a visual element, it would be more beneficial to watch films in French with the subtitles on so you can match the sounds to the text - with the complication that subtitles can't always keep up with the speed of the dialogue and so words are either omitted or replaced with something shorter.

Another useful way to 'train the ears' is to watch news bulletins - these have two advantages: usually, the presenters speak clearly - a big help; and secondly, stories repeat over days or weeks, so you get used to hearing the same words regularly. I did a lot of that when I went to live in France.


message 109: by Bill (last edited May 08, 2023 06:34AM) (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments scarletnoir wrote: "Russell wrote: "The book belongs to its age. I looked at foutre, for which it says:

The original meaning (‘to have sexual intercourse�) has been lost sight of in most cases, and the lower classes ..."


KATHERINE Comment appelez-vous “le pied� et “la robe�?

ALICE “Le foot,� madame, et “le coun.�

KATHERINE Le foot, et le coun. Ô Seigneur Dieu! Ils
sont les mots de son mauvais, corruptible, gros, et
impudique, et non pour les dames d’honneur d’user.

- Henry V


message 110: by Greenfairy (new)

Greenfairy | 868 comments I hope the weather is kind for you CC :)


message 111: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments Somebody on GoodReads or Guardian mentioned the Greek political thriller Z by Vassilis Vassilikos(1966) about a year ago

Well i have finally started reading this novel, written a year before the Colonels Coup, which was banned from publication shortly after. Its an interesting look into Northern Greek life and culture, set in the city of Salonika and dealing with the assasination of a political figure. (loosely based on the killing of a socialist MP in the city in 1963)

I like the style and of course the setting, Greece suffering political tensions between Communists and Royalists.


message 112: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments AB76 wrote: "Somebody on GoodReads or Guardian mentioned the Greek political thriller Z by Vassilis Vassilikos(1966) about a year ago

Well i have finally started reading this novel, written a year before the C..."


scarlet recommended the film (by Costa Gavras), I recommended the book (haven't seen the film).


message 113: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Somebody on GoodReads or Guardian mentioned the Greek political thriller Z by Vassilis Vassilikos(1966) about a year ago

Well i have finally started reading this novel, written a year..."


ah, twas you...thanks Georg...going well so far, my greek reading hasnt been extensive, though i have read most of Kazantzakis. I have Liberaki novel lined up for the summer too.


message 114: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Georg wrote: "scarlet recommended the film (by Costa Gavras), I recommended the book (haven't seen the film).."

With me, it's the other way round!

By coincidence, I have in the last few months been reading a series of books set in Greece (the Inspector Haritas/Charitas series by Petros Markaris). Though ostensibly police procedurals, the stories contain political commentary on the recent past from the colonels onwards, with the murders usually being precipitated by responses to one or other consequence of the political situation as it evolves. A wide range of unpleasant individuals who cynically profit from the misery of others come to a sticky end, which is satisfying as well as educational!

Sometimes, the historical content stretches back at least as far as the civil war; it is always well integrated and relevant to the tale being told. I haven't read much literature set in Greece, but would strongly recommend When the Tree Sings by Stratis Haviaras to anyone... with the minor proviso that I read it a long time ago, though I don't have the feeling that my tastes have changed significantly!


message 115: by [deleted user] (new)

scarletnoir wrote: "Russell wrote: "I’ve wondered whether it would help to listen to audiobooks in French, to get my ear in..."

Maybe, though I'd suggest that as conversation (except on the 'phone) involves a visual element, it would be more beneficial to watch films in French with the subtitles on so you can match the sounds to the text ..."


Thanks, scarlet, good suggestions. I do remember also finding the football and the weather reports on TV helpful, when I was living in Paris decades ago.


message 116: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6239 comments Mod
Les Croisades vues par les Arabes by Amin Maalouf I wanted to share a passage from my book on the Crusades as seen by the Arabs.

Aleppo, the year is 1111.
Traders meet during the day along the ancient colonnaded avenue built by the Romans ... This central artery has long been closed to carts and processions. The roadway has been invaded by hundreds of stalls where fabrics, amber or trinkets, dates, pistachios or condiments are piled up. To shelter the passers-by from the sun and the rain, the avenue and the neighbouring alleys are entirely covered with a wooden ceiling which rises, at the crossroads, in high stucco domes. On the corners of the alleys, especially those leading to the souks of the mat makers, blacksmiths and sellers of firewood , the ´¡±ôé±è¾±²Ô²õ chat in front of the numerous gargotes (greasy spoons!?) which, in a persistent smell of boiling oil, grilled meat and spices, offer meals at modest prices: mutton dumplings, fritters, lentils. Low-income families buy their prepared dishes at the souk; only the rich allow themselves to cook at home.
Translation by me + DeepL


message 117: by [deleted user] (new)

Gpfr wrote: "Les Croisades vues par les Arabes by Amin Maalouf I wanted to share a passage from my book on the Crusades as seen by the Arabs.

Aleppo, the year is 1111...


Quite a picture. I also looked at the blurb on the book, which graphically describes the Crusaders as barbarians, and says that at the time the Arabs were the most advanced civilization in the world. Makes you think. I sort of knew it without picturing it.


message 118: by Bill (new)

Bill FromPA (bill_from_pa) | 1791 comments Asked to Delete References to Racism From Her Book, an Author Refused (Gift link)

A somewhat misleading headline sets the reader up for outrage, but - at least from the reader comments - things are not so cut-and-dried when one sees the actual editorial suggestions for this children's picture book.
description
(See article for readable image.)
In the case of Tokuda-Hall’s book, Scholastic’s proposed edits included deleting a sentence where she contextualized her grandparents� experience as part of “the deeply American tradition of racism.� The company also asked for the removal of a paragraph connecting bigotry against Japanese Americans to current and past manifestations of racism, in which Tokuda-Hall describes a culture that “allows the police to murder Black people� and “keeps children in cages on our border.�



message 119: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments Slightly changed my choice of angle on the history West Germany today, by changing from a source based work on the BDR, to a 2001 collecttion of essays forming a cultural history of the BDR.

So i stopped reading The Making of Germany Democracy: 1945-63 and moved to The Miracle Years: A Cultural History of Germany 1949-68

As a History graduate i am happy with source based reading, indeed the whole world of sources formed a long part of my studies but i felt it was like reading a primer in many ways, the sources were laid out but with very little context in the former book, i am aware the latter will probably fall roughly into the typical american university product of the last 20 years, not a bad thing at all but the focus may be softer than the realities of dealing with such a past as Germany had after the end of WW2. I will report back on whether this is true.

Certainly the former led me into the perilous state of hunger in the Western Zones, the British Zone in particular was struggling from 1946 to feed its population, with Britain itself bankrupt and bereft after six years of war. Source material from the US Zone, also exposes a political concern with feeding the German populace, if the Western Zone Germans were getting less calories than the "Ossies", how would this play out in the battle for hearts and minds?


message 120: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments Acronyms can be confusing.

GDR, DDR, BDR sound so similar.

So:

GDR: German Democratic Republic =
DDR: Deutsche Demokratische Republik

FRG: Federal Republic of Germany =
BRD: Bundesrepublik Deutschland


message 121: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Bill wrote: "Asked to Delete References to Racism From Her Book, an Author Refused (Gift link)
..."


Whatever happened to 'stiff upper lip' or the ability to cringe (and that's it) when one reads or sees something that rankles?

Here is what Tom Hanks said while touting his book on the BBC - With such bad behaviour in his novel, the actor-writer also believes it is unnecessary to airbrush classic books for modern audiences.

Novels by Ian Fleming and Agatha Christie have been updated, and Hanks's own publisher Penguin Random House has altered the work of Roald Dahl and PG Wodehouse as part of an effort to remove potentially offensive language.

"I'm of the opinion that we're all grown-ups here. Let's have faith in our own sensibilities as opposed to having somebody decide what we may or may not be offended by," insists Hanks.

"Let me decide what I am offended by and what I'm not offended by. I would be against reading any book from any era that says 'abridged due to modern sensitivities'."

Link here -


message 122: by MK (last edited May 09, 2023 03:50PM) (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Georg wrote: "Acronyms can be confusing.

GDR, DDR, BDR sound so similar.

So:

GDR: German Democratic Republic =
DDR: Deutsche Demokratische Republik

FRG: Federal Republic of Germany =
BRD: Bundesrepublik Deu..."


I'm all in for pedantry. But first, a little personal history - When I first went back to work, I had a temporary ('til the end of the fiscal year-FY) typist position with the Army. The Command I was working for had an Inspector General (IG) inspection which lasted several days. I was seconded to them to type up their 'findings' or as one might say, all the 'oopsies'. There was a form for all their findings and rules on format and content. The one rule that will forever stick with me is - When an acronym is first used, it must be spelled out and followed by its acronym in parentheses. Do you wonder that this is ingrained since I was working for the US Army Computer Systems Command (USACSC) which was the first item to be typed on each finding?

Anyway, I really find it helpful when not everyone is familiar with the acronym uses/follows the IG method.

This morning I had to ask about MUCC on our local electronic bulletin board. I had no idea where the Boy Scout food drive pick up point was - Magnolia United Church of Christ. Not all that surprising since I am not a churchgoer of any stripe.


message 123: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1024 comments Andy wrote: "High Sierra by W.R. BurnettHigh Sierra by W.R. Burnett


This novel is, in effect, a biography of Roy Earle, a fictional character, but one that reflects the lives of several notorious American outlaws of the 1920s and 1930s.

It begins..

Early in the twentieth century, when Roy Earle was a happy boy on an Indiana farm, he had no idea that at thirty-seven he’d be a pardoned ex-convict driving alone through the Nevada-California desert towards an ambiguous destiny in the Far West.


Burnett takes on quite something, the definitive story of Earle as he leaves jail, falls in love, and builds towards the heist that will mean his spell his downfall.

The image of Earle builds throughout the piece, from idealistic to naive, ruthless yet inevitably doomed. But he earns the reader’s sympathy because of his faults, perhaps we can see ourselves in him. He is easy to identify with.

The portrait Burnett ultimately paints of the 1930s outlaw is a sad one, but it is highly entertaining to read because of an element of the surreal, and a smattering of bleak humour.

For many I think, High Sierra is best known for John Huston’s film, with the outstanding Bogart performance. Huston concentrates on the romantic element, with a Robin Hood shade to it. Burnett stresses Earle as being a contradiction, full of passion and rage.
Maybe the film is a distant memory, as it was to me, seen too long ago.
My recommendation therefore is to read this, and then, watch the movie again."


I remember seeing the movie back in the early 1980s on tv, when CBC was ding a Humphrey Bogart week. They Drive by Night was another one - Ida Lupino stood out in both, if I remember. I forget what others they showed.

I don't think I've read anything by Burnett so this will be a good one to look for. I'll follow your suggestion and read the book before watching the movie again.


message 124: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments MK wrote: "Georg wrote: "Acronyms can be confusing.

GDR, DDR, BDR sound so similar.

So:

GDR: German Democratic Republic =
DDR: Deutsche Demokratische Republik

FRG: Federal Republic of Germany =
BRD: Bund..."


there are many acronyms in places i have worked but i always loved using them without any confusion at all. I like the sound of DDR(especially in German alphabet sounds) and using BRD or West Germany.

Its interesting reading more about West Germany and the wonderful re-generation of democratic German spirit, leading up to re-unification and the end of the mean spirited madness of East Germany, the failed state


message 125: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments Journal of a Novel by John Steinbeck, is a wonderful read, i am reading it in small late night sections, as i do with all journals/diaries, as the shires begin to sleep....

The journal covers his brilliant 1952 novel East of Eden and the writing process, it is conversational and honest. He fusses over the pencils he is writing with (six hours at a go), worries about his eyesight, muses on his sons and family.

However the key sections cover the writing process of the novel and his observations on the world outside. He is keen on the Schumann Plan, less keen on anything Soviet and shows how demanding writing a novel can be, even for a writer aged 49 with many books under his belt.

One wonders what other "journals of a novel" may reveal but the printed accounts of this are few. Its only about 178 pages, i'm less of a third of the way through but its a valuable document of post-war American thinking and ideas


message 126: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments MK wrote: "When an acronym is first used, it must be spelled out and followed by its acronym in parentheses."

I could not agree more - especially as some acronyms have multiple possible meanings.


message 127: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2568 comments MK wrote: "Bill wrote: "Asked to Delete References to Racism From Her Book, an Author Refused (Gift link)
..."


How would they go on publishing a book about Henry VIII with his proclivities for divorcing wives from their heads? Sexual violence?


message 128: by MK (last edited May 10, 2023 07:13AM) (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Darn - my work inside and out did not get done yesterday, thanks to whoever here (you know who you are, but, sorry to say, I don't) recommended Janet Neel. I found her first on one of my shelves - Death's Bright Angel. When the book got really good, I just sat there and read it until done.

Now I find that one of my two local library systems has her second one - Death on Site - so as soon as I clear a space on my hold list (have a couple of books waiting for me), I'm going to put it on hold and anticipate being glued to the wing chair again sometime soon.


message 129: by MK (last edited May 10, 2023 07:33AM) (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments giveusaclue wrote: "MK wrote: "Bill wrote: "Asked to Delete References to Racism From Her Book, an Author Refused (Gift link)
..."


Probably. Even today it would be difficult to excuse his actions unless you were a Republican from Texas! 🙄


message 130: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments giveusaclue wrote: "How would they go on publishing a book about Henry VIII with his proclivities for divorcing wives from their heads? Sexual violence?"

You will know that I am not an admirer of the 'royal family'... however...

The other day, someone posted on the Guardian to complain that Charles was unfit to become leader of the Church of England because he 'had divorced his wife' (or somesuch). I had to give said person a brief history of the creation of the Church of England!


message 131: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Has anyone here read - Laurent Mauvignier's The Wound? It's about the Algerian war and its aftereffects. I had it waiting in my basket at Powell's, but someone bought that used (less expensive) copy.

I'm of two minds about it as it may be depressing. I tend to avoid depressing. So I am looking for some feedback.


message 132: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments OK - this is completely random, but I don't know where to post this train of thought.

We regularly travel to France, and see a 'camel' off to one side of the M5 on the way.

Just now, I noticed that a village in Somerset is badly flooded: it is called 'Queen Camel'.

'Is that why there's a camel by the M5', I wondered.

Of course - and disappointingly - there is no connection. The village is not named after an actual camel, and the camel is quite a way from the village and was made by Young Farmers. But at least I have satisfied my curiosity!




message 133: by AB76 (last edited May 10, 2023 08:12AM) (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments Interesting source documents on plans by the British to nationalise German industry in 1947(specifically the Ruhr), this was opposed strongly by American military governor Gen Lucius Clay, who telllingly describes it as "socialisation".

It suprised me to read that Clay thought this as he had been a key part of the New Deal and work with Roosevelt, working within arguably the most "socialist" era of the USA in the 1930s and 40s. The overall idea of American opposition to anything but free enterprise did not suprise me however

Imagine if the Ruhr had been nationalised(it lay in the British Zone of Germany), would Siemens, Krupp or Thyssen and many others be as wealthy today, would it have made one of the most dominant nationalised industries in Europe?


message 134: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2568 comments scarletnoir wrote: "OK - this is completely random, but I don't know where to post this train of thought.

We regularly travel to France, and see a 'camel' off to one side of the M5 on the way.

Just now, I noticed th..."


Is it related to the cows at Milton Keynes


message 135: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2568 comments scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "How would they go on publishing a book about Henry VIII with his proclivities for divorcing wives from their heads? Sexual violence?"

You will know that I am not an admirer of ..."


It has often struck me that there may be some atheists or agnostics among the RF. They must just keep schtum.


message 136: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "How would they go on publishing a book about Henry VIII with his proclivities for divorcing wives from their heads? Sexual violence?"

You will know that I a..."


RF?


message 137: by Gpfr (new)

Gpfr | 6239 comments Mod
MK wrote: "Darn - my work inside and out did not get done yesterday, thanks to whoever here (you know who you are, but, sorry to say, I don't) recommended Janet Neel. I found her first on one of my shelves - ..."

Sorry, I'm the culprit!


message 138: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2568 comments MK wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "How would they go on publishing a book about Henry VIII with his proclivities for divorcing wives from their heads? Sexual violence?"

Yo..."


Royal Family


message 139: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments MK wrote: "Georg wrote: "Acronyms can be confusing.

GDR, DDR, BDR sound so similar.

So:

GDR: German Democratic Republic =
DDR: Deutsche Demokratische Republik


Nitpicker, pedant, perfectionist. Graded by negative connotation. While perfectionist can be neutral it still can have a whiff of the pedant. There is , however, as far as I know, no single word that neutrally describes somebody who insists on accuracy. Why don't we have accuracists?

As a nolens volens pedant when it comes to language (ah, I remember the time when papers had proofreaders...)I'm all for the IG method you described. And I stick to my opinion that there is no such thing as too much redundancy when it comes to communication. Rather the opposite.

In a non-military context the IG method you describe provides clarity and saves time on google
In a military context it can be a safeguard against misunderstandings that might have catastrophic outcomes/consequences..
What goes for plain language must also go for acronyms.

If somebody accidentally dropped (or added) an "r" in military communication and the context were ambivalent or absent friends could become fiends or vice versa at the drop of a hat.


Loved your "oopsies", should go into a dictionary :-)


message 140: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "Georg wrote: "Acronyms can be confusing.

GDR, DDR, BDR sound so similar.

So:

GDR: German Democratic Republic =
DDR: Deutsche Demokratische Republik

FRG: Federal Republic of Germany ..."


You said (#124) I like....using BRD or West Germany.

Fair enough.
But a person, who is not as erudite as to know the German acronym for what is in the Anglosphere known as the FRG might be slightly puzzled by your mentioning of

...a source based work on the BDR... in your previous post (#119)

Because a google search would reveal that you apparently refer to the "Bund Deutscher Radfahrer" (BDR), the association of German cyclists.

I reckon that most German and French people of average intelligence understand the acronym "UK" (if we leave out the finer distinctions embodied in "England", "GB", or "GB &NI").
Yet the media do not use UK. They use "Vereinigtes Königreich" resp "Royaume-Uni". There probably is a reason for that.


message 141: by Berkley (new)

Berkley | 1024 comments Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "Georg wrote: "Acronyms can be confusing.

GDR, DDR, BDR sound so similar.

So:

GDR: German Democratic Republic =
DDR: Deutsche Demokratische Republik

FRG: Federal Republi..."


When I'm reading French or trying to read some other language like Spanish I often have to stop and think for a second whether EU is referring to the USA (États Unis, Estados Unidos) or the European Union (which in French and Spanish is actually UE). I'll get it straight eventually but for now there's always that split-second pause before I can carry on with the sentence.


message 142: by AB76 (new)

AB76 | 6740 comments Berkley wrote: "Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "Georg wrote: "Acronyms can be confusing.

GDR, DDR, BDR sound so similar.

So:

GDR: German Democratic Republic =
DDR: Deutsche Demokratische Republik

FRG: F..."


i'm 1000% non pedantic but British government dept abbrieviations can be a bore....especially when new ones are invented, merged or split


message 143: by scarletnoir (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments giveusaclue wrote: "Is it related to the cows at Milton Keynes"

Apparently not:

The Concrete Cows in Milton Keynes, England are an iconic work of sculpture, created in 1978 by the American artist Liz Leyh.[1][2] There are three cows and three calves, approximately half life size.

The Cows are constructed from scrap, skinned with fibre glass reinforced concrete donated by a local builder.



This reminds me that on a visit to Calgary in 2000, we were surprised and delighted to see a large number of brightly painted cows - these being part of a charity effort called 'CowParade' which was instigated by Walter Knapp in Zurich, and which was taken up and copied in a number of cities worldwide:




I guess many people have seen these cows somewhere or other.
AFAIK, the Milton Keynes cows (which I haven't seen) are not part of that project.


message 144: by scarletnoir (last edited May 11, 2023 12:34AM) (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments giveusaclue wrote: "It has often struck me that there may be some atheists or agnostics among the RF. They must just keep schtum."

As for king Charles - you can hardly become the head of a church if you admit to not believing its basic dogmas.


message 145: by scarletnoir (last edited May 11, 2023 12:40AM) (new)

scarletnoir | 4411 comments Georg wrote: "...friends could become fiends or vice versa at the drop of a hat."

I am not sure if you chose this example deliberately, but as you are German I assume that you are aware of Werner Herzog's film about his relationship with insane actor Klaus Kinski, brilliantly called (in English) "My Best Fiend"... does the joke work equally well in German? ("Mein liebster Feind - Klaus Kinski"?)




message 146: by Gpfr (last edited May 11, 2023 01:50AM) (new)

Gpfr | 6239 comments Mod
scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Is it related to the cows at Milton Keynes"
The Concrete Cows in Milton Keynes, England are an iconic work of sculpture, created in 1978 by the American artist..."


This reminds me of the painted cows to be seen at the carrefour La Vache Noire, Arcueil, not far from me. There are various stories about the origin of the name: after an inn, a steam engine, a black cow that lay down on the line, or simply black cows to be seen in a nearby field. They date from 2006 and were decorated by "known and unknown artists".

description


message 147: by CCCubbon (last edited May 11, 2023 03:29AM) (new)

CCCubbon | 2371 comments Pathogenesis by Johnathan Kennedy

This is a book about plagues which delves into the history of these infectious diseases which have killed so many.Three quarters of the book is really interesting, considering the effect that various diseases had, why they aided some but devastated other conquerors.
The latter quarter of the book tends to get a tad ‘preachy� although I would guess that readers of this book would be in agreement with many of the conclusions Kennedy reaches about present day society. But how these problems concerning the poorer nations and inequality in richer ones are solved is problematic as, seemingly, it’s beyond humans capability to live together in harmony and helpfulness.
I was most disappointed by the lack of analysis of sleepy sickness, Spanish flu, of a hundred or so years ago - a pandemic that I am particularly interested in..
Overall a thoughtful book. I hope that it sells well and leads to much discussion for, maybe, in that is hope for humans.


message 148: by giveusaclue (new)

giveusaclue | 2568 comments Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Is it related to the cows at Milton Keynes"
The Concrete Cows in Milton Keynes, England are an iconic work of sculpture, created in 1978 by the American arti..."


Either that cow isn't black or there is something wrong with my eyesight! 😀


message 149: by MK (new)

MK (emmakaye) | 1795 comments Gpfr wrote: "MK wrote: "Darn - my work inside and out did not get done yesterday, thanks to whoever here (you know who you are, but, sorry to say, I don't) recommended Janet Neel. I found her first on one of my..."

Not only was it a good story but also provided information on how the UK (or should I say British as I know the Scots have a kind of automony and assume that Wales does as well) government works. I found Francesca particulary appealing, too.

I'm off the the library today or tomorrow to pick up holds which will allow me space to put the next, Death on Site, on hold.


message 150: by Georg (new)

Georg Elser | 991 comments scarletnoir wrote (#145): "Georg wrote: "...friends could become fiends or vice versa at the drop of a hat."

I am not sure if you chose this example deliberately, but as you are German I assume that you are aware of Werner ..."


It wouldn't work in High German: Feind/Freund.
It would, however, work in the Southern German dialects (Bavarian and Suebian), not only written, but also phonetically: Feind/Freind.


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